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An end to high ranking useless prereq skills please

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Ravenal The Fated	Posted - 2006.12.17 02:06:00 - [1] Tactical shield manipulation, reprocessing skills, anchoring, construction skills, ethnic relations... from the top of my head. There are probably a few others. Apart from prereq for stuff and skills could skills like these please get some sort of reason for training them to any other levels than prereqs? Please post additional skills that "lack" reason for upping in levels and possibly what exacly the skills could provide to the game in addition to what they do now. .
Senator Martin'Lefouret	Posted - 2006.12.17 02:14:00 - [2] all skills you've mentioned have a reason to be trained, the only skill in top of my head atm(lol i'm a bit drunk atm, shouldn't reply and just go to bed) is jury rigging, thats the only skill i can think of atm that doesn actualy do something except let you train other skills.
Ravenal The Fated	Posted - 2006.12.17 02:24:00 - [3] true for jury rigging (new skill, forgot it) :) but tactical shield manipulation doesnt really do anything. Cruiser construction, frigate construction etc dont do squat cept allow you to build the ships... pointless after first level. advanced reprocessing skills pretty useless from lvl4 - 5 (iirc 5-5-4 got you 100% in the worst refinery) Anyway... im doing this from the top of my head because i know there are useless skills out there and i know there are people that dont like that. Kali added many skills. I ask: why add skills when you have useless skills in game already? .
Tricit Caldari Dark Entropy iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.17 03:13:00 - [4] so is outpost construction.... Tricit's dreamy ship statistics. PICTURES SOON MAYBE!!! (NOT YET, but they are drawn)
Jei'son Bladesmith Caldari Bladesmith Mining and Development Consortium	Posted - 2006.12.17 06:21:00 - [5] I'm just gonna comment on the one skill I know about...as an armor tanker, Tactical Shield Manipulation is a damn handy skill to have...every little bit extra my shields can absorb is that much less my tank has to deal with, jus because its value may not be obvious to you doesn't mean its useless to the rest of us. * Not Just Cool...Warp to 0 Cool *
Mink Latur Silver Express	Posted - 2006.12.17 10:22:00 - [6] I actually think that being a prerequiste for another skill is a good enough reason to learn a skill if you want what it unlocks. If the level needed seems to high, you don't realy want what it enables you to do. One of the nice things about EVE, you got to actually have to plan ahead and consider your choices well. Remove all savety labels, give evolution a chance.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:32:00 - [7] Jump Drive Operations Rank 5 Reduces capacitor need of jumps from 95% to 70% by 5 per cent unit increments. Prerequisites: Level 3 for Jump Fuel Conservation, reduces jump fuel amount by 100 units per level and light year. Low usefulness. Level 5 for Jump Drive Calibration, increases jump distance by 25% per level. Critical skill. Essentially, a rank 5, useless skill, that must be trained to level 5 before you are even remotely capable of operating your capital ship. This is THE time sink when it comes to capital ships, and it is nothing BUT a time sink. - EVE is sick.
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:51:00 - [8] Yeah we should be able to train any skill any time, with no prerequisites. In fact, we should just abolish the entire system, as all skills are just time sinks. Everyone can do anything in any ship they want anytime, that's how it should be.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:56:00 - [9] Originally by: Estel Arador Yeah we should be able to train any skill any time, with no prerequisites. In fact, we should just abolish the entire system, as all skills are just time sinks. Everyone can do anything in any ship they want anytime, that's how it should be. No. The prerequisite skills should be useful in their own right, though, and they should not be blatant time sinks. Prime examples of blatant time sinks are Jump Drive Operation (which does little at all in practice) and Shield Manipulation (which has no effect what-so-ever) - EVE is sick.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.17 12:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Ithildin Jump Drive Operations Rank 5 Reduces capacitor need of jumps from 95% to 70% by 5 per cent unit increments. Prerequisites: Level 3 for Jump Fuel Conservation, reduces jump fuel amount by 100 units per level and light year. Low usefulness. Level 5 for Jump Drive Calibration, increases jump distance by 25% per level. Critical skill. Essentially, a rank 5, useless skill, that must be trained to level 5 before you are even remotely capable of operating your capital ship. This is THE time sink when it comes to capital ships, and it is nothing BUT a time sink. Actually I'd add advanced spaceship command in there. The _only_ ship you can fly with just ASC is a freighter. I also have a peeve about the new leadership skills - rank 8 skill to level 5 for fleet command is just insane. Anchoring is also a dead weight skill. Electronics upgrades might as well be.
swoj The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2006.12.17 14:47:00 - [11] Adv Spaceship Command lvl1 is needed for freighters, however you do get a bonus to agility for each level you train. The previously mentioned Cruiser/Frigate Construction skills do not provide a direct per level bonus, but you do need lvl5 in order to build Command Ships and Assault Frigs respectively.
Loraen	Posted - 2006.12.17 22:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Senator Martin'Lefouret all skills you've mentioned have a reason to be trained, the only skill in top of my head atm(lol i'm a bit drunk atm, shouldn't reply and just go to bed) is jury rigging, thats the only skill i can think of atm that doesn actualy do something except let you train other skills. I'm just fumbling in the dark but I think t2 rigs might need Jury Rigging 5? At least they should if they don't..
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2006.12.17 22:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Ithildin No. The prerequisite skills should be useful in their own right, though, and they should not be blatant time sinks. Prime examples of blatant time sinks are Jump Drive Operation (which does little at all in practice) and Shield Manipulation (which has no effect what-so-ever) You know I actually have trained Tactical Shield Manipulation for the effect it has, not because it's a prereq for something I wanted :)
Fodderrr	Posted - 2006.12.18 01:16:00 - [14] Originally by: Jei'son Bladesmith I'm just gonna comment on the one skill I know about...as an armor tanker, Tactical Shield Manipulation is a damn handy skill to have...every little bit extra my shields can absorb is that much less my tank has to deal with, jus because its value may not be obvious to you doesn't mean its useless to the rest of us. "Skill at preventing damage from penetrating the shield, including the use of shield hardeners and other advanced shield modules. Reduces the chance of damage penetrating the shield when it falls below 25% by 5% per skill level, with 0% chance at level 5." So how long do you think your unhardened shields are gonna hold before they hit armor?? Your prepared to train the skill to lvl 5 you must of put in the time to calculate the difference or that wud make you a muppet in my books.
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2006.12.18 02:14:00 - [15] why do u think they make more skills in the first place? to keep you paying and playing longer SOLO PVP SETUPZ: RAVEN/DRAKE
Sugarbunny	Posted - 2006.12.18 09:05:00 - [16] Tactical shield Manipulation is a prequisite for tech 2 shield hardeners, so it IS an important skill as you can see here: http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/shield/shieldhardeners/2299.asp The advanced reprocessing skills are also very important, for low-tech POS factories which only have a standard yield of 25% unlike normal stations which have 50%. Not everyone has access to a good facility in 0.0 space, so obviously you don't have a clue about that ;) Construction skills... well let me see if you can build a ferrari with YOUR current skills... if you could, everyone would, is that logical? Ethnic relations... well you know.. combined forces, the more colorful the weapons, the mightier the fleet. Isn't it all about being more powerful in eve? This skill is a part of this system as well. No ethnic relations and you will only have an amarr fleet with em/heat damage, real easy to block if you ask me, but hey its your fleet ;) Why do you even complain about anchoring? Do you want everyone to be able to drop Large Mobile Warp disruptors? I for sure dont want to be pirated by a group of unSKILLed noobs. Every skill in eve has its reason, if you dont see it, you just havent found it yet.
Rodge Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.18 12:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Ravenal advanced reprocessing skills pretty useless from lvl4 - 5 (iirc 5-5-4 got you 100% in the worst refinery) You remember incorrectly. 5-5-2 gets you a perfect refine in a 50% station. 5-5-5 still doesn't get you a perfect refine in either an outpost (35%) or a 30% station. Sig inappropriate-not eve related -Abdalion [ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
Mothmar Friedsquid Gallente Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.12.18 19:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Estel Arador Yeah we should be able to train any skill any time, with no prerequisites. In fact, we should just abolish the entire system, as all skills are just time sinks. Everyone can do anything in any ship they want anytime, that's how it should be. Sounds fair to me. Sometimes, video games are more important than sleep. Unfortunately, this is a bad sign.
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:09:00 - [19] Jury rigging is useful in itself. It is required and sufficient to fit energy grid rigs IIRC. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." ----------------------------------------------
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:36:00 - [20] Originally by: vanBuskirk Jury rigging is useful in itself. It is required and sufficient to fit energy grid rigs IIRC. Jury Rigging: Lvl 1: Nada Lvl 2: Nada Lvl 3: You can train the rest of the rig skills Lvl 4: Nada Lvl 5: Nada In short the skill doesn't do anything on its own, and only on lvl 3 does it give you access to new skills/modules. Outpost contruction: Lvl 1: Build outposts, deploy outposts Lvl 2: Nada Lvl 3: Nada Lvl 4: Nada Lvl 5: Nada These are the two worst I can think of. Most other skills at least do something (even if practiacally worthless) for each lvl you gain. "Nada" here equals: Not a prereq for any other skill, not a prereq for module use, not prereq for building, copy and/or research, no own bonus. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Sophia Stormbringer	Posted - 2006.12.20 14:42:00 - [21] Originally by: Qual Jury Rigging: Lvl 1: Nada <- misinformation Lvl 2: Nada Lvl 3: You can train the rest of the rig skills Lvl 4: Nada <- misinformation Lvl 5: Nada Wrong wrong wrong! All tech 1 Electronic Rigs and Energy Grid Rigs require jury rigging level 1, their tech 2 versions require jury rigging 4, and just because level 5 is useless on this very new skill doesnt mean there wont be stronger rigs which require more in the future! If you don't know, then don't spread misinformation!
Ariel Dawn SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.12.21 21:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Jei'son Bladesmith I'm just gonna comment on the one skill I know about...as an armor tanker, Tactical Shield Manipulation is a damn handy skill to have...every little bit extra my shields can absorb is that much less my tank has to deal with, jus because its value may not be obvious to you doesn't mean its useless to the rest of us. Actually, having your shields take the full damage instead of allowing some leak into your armour means that your shields will drop past their peak regeneration much quicker, so you're actually losing some hitpoints because of the skill on the whole in such situations.
Selena Dimeling Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:07:00 - [23] Jury Rigging is the only skill I've noticed in my short time with the game that does absolutely nothing in and of itself, I fully agree with that. Access to Tech II modules is not a real purpose, nor does any tech II I can think of require a useless skill to use. (Miner IIs take Mining 4, which boosts it's yeild by 20% by the time you can use it. Just to name one skill.) I think that it would be perfect if Jury Rigging gave say, half the benifit of training specific riggings. Just as a knowledge bonus. Which I believe would reduce the penalty to the same level as the bonus. (a -5%) I think a number of the science skills are guilty of this as well, but I haven't taken a good look at them.
hangnoose Caldari Repo Industries	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Selena Dimeling Jury Rigging is the only skill I've noticed in my short time with the game that does absolutely nothing in and of itself, I fully agree with that. Access to Tech II modules is not a real purpose, nor does any tech II I can think of require a useless skill to use. (Miner IIs take Mining 4, which boosts it's yeild by 20% by the time you can use it. Just to name one skill.) I think that it would be perfect if Jury Rigging gave say, half the benifit of training specific riggings. Just as a knowledge bonus. Which I believe would reduce the penalty to the same level as the bonus. (a -5%) I think a number of the science skills are guilty of this as well, but I haven't taken a good look at them. So in this short time you have been playing you don't seem to read either. Not only do you need the skill to use other rigs, but as someone else mentioned electronics rigs, and energy grid rigs use the jury rigging skill. Not a separate skill like armor or drone rigging.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2006.12.22 10:39:00 - [25] Originally by: Mothmar Friedsquid Originally by: Estel Arador Yeah we should be able to train any skill any time, with no prerequisites. In fact, we should just abolish the entire system, as all skills are just time sinks. Everyone can do anything in any ship they want anytime, that's how it should be. Sounds fair to me. This not good at all. The skill system is part of what makes EVE genuine. Unique. and so special. The complexity and the multitudes of combinations of skills you can have, which ultimately makes your character unique. In most games and not just MMORPGs the character ends up pretty much the same. In EVE you starts out the same (pretty much) but as you evolve and sinks deeper into the game, your character gets more and more unique. Also, you should not be able to fly any ship at whim. If you could there would be no goal to work for! It would also ruin much of the longvity of the game. in EVE you develope and evolve a character. you dont instantly create one as such. And that leads to getting a more personal relationship to your character. EVE is unique in many ways. One way is the SP system, and it should be left as it is. And as a reminder, I can point out Star wars galaxies and its NGE, which completely messed up the game AND the trust in that particular gamecompany. EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER
Selena Dimeling Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.22 15:53:00 - [26] Originally by: hangnoose So in this short time you have been playing you don't seem to read either. Not only do you need the skill to use other rigs, but as someone else mentioned electronics rigs, and energy grid rigs use the jury rigging skill. Not a separate skill like armor or drone rigging. No, I read them. What I'm saying is that every other skill enabling a module also boosts it in some way. Mining Turrets: Mining 1 for Miner Is. A 5% boost to yeild just there. Miner IIs require the 20% boost level. Launchers: MLO 1 for the basics again. This time a 2% boost to RoF off the bat. Not to mention the skills required to use their ammo which increases their raw damage. Turrets all require gunnery to an extent, which increases their RoF as well, and then the turret type specialization that again increases their damage. This makes the tech IIs all the more powerful when you do get them, since they have higher stats, and thusly the percentages affect them to a greater extent. These skills on the vast majority arn't just time sinks to prevent easy access to another skill. They also provide a tangible and real benifit, even if it doesn't make the greatest of difference to everyone. For ships, every module that affects the ship has a skill that affects it directly that s required to use it. Yes, it's not always the best bonus, but it is a bonus. There's no real reason for Jury Rigging to not have a bonus. And make no mistake, it does not. Again, access to tech two modules and additional skills is not a bonus. It is a reason to take a skill only as high as needed for the next skill/module, and no farther. If that point still escapes you, I thank god that you are not in game design for a career.
Hockston Axe Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.22 21:24:00 - [27] I always thought that it would be cool if the construction and the ship engineering skills had very small combat bonuses when fighting those types of ships. i.e. knowing cruiser construction would give you a very small boost to damage per level when fighting a cruiser, if you had Amarrian Spaceship Engineering and it was an Amarr cruiser then youÆd get another little bonus since you are familiar in the construction of the vessel and know its weaknesses. I mean small bonuses, like 2% at level 5 or something. A small secondary effect for the less immediately useful skills would make them more attractive to level up.
Shadarle	Posted - 2006.12.22 21:41:00 - [28] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: Jei'son Bladesmith I'm just gonna comment on the one skill I know about...as an armor tanker, Tactical Shield Manipulation is a damn handy skill to have...every little bit extra my shields can absorb is that much less my tank has to deal with, jus because its value may not be obvious to you doesn't mean its useless to the rest of us. Actually, having your shields take the full damage instead of allowing some leak into your armour means that your shields will drop past their peak regeneration much quicker, so you're actually losing some hitpoints because of the skill on the whole in such situations. I'm glad you mentioned this... tactical shield manipulation actually hurts tanking. Anyone who doesn't realize this and trained TSM for any reason other than getting the hardeners has not only wasted their time, they have hurt themselves to a minor degree. This skill needs a change BADLY. ********************************************** Tank Rankings - Ships & Fittings Compared! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=386174
Azulya Caldari Azule Wolves	Posted - 2006.12.28 12:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Hockston Axe I always thought that it would be cool if the construction and the ship engineering skills had very small combat bonuses when fighting those types of ships. i.e. knowing cruiser construction would give you a very small boost to damage per level when fighting a cruiser, if you had Amarrian Spaceship Engineering and it was an Amarr cruiser then youÆd get another little bonus since you are familiar in the construction of the vessel and know its weaknesses. I mean small bonuses, like 2% at level 5 or something. A small secondary effect for the less immediately useful skills would make them more attractive to level up. /signed!
Cal Morg Gallente Morpheus industries	Posted - 2006.12.28 19:55:00 - [30] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Ariel Dawn Actually, having your shields take the full damage instead of allowing some leak into your armour means that your shields will drop past their peak regeneration much quicker, so you're actually losing some hitpoints because of the skill on the whole in such situations. I'm glad you mentioned this... tactical shield manipulation actually hurts tanking. Anyone who doesn't realize this and trained TSM for any reason other than getting the hardeners has not only wasted their time, they have hurt themselves to a minor degree. This skill needs a change BADLY. This is wrong. You get FULL shield damage AND leaking damage to your armor. So it is good to have it, when you tank at a low shield level.

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