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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
13
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Posted - 2015.09.14 04:04:07 -
[1] - Quote
The Drifters, as we all know, are being incredibly silent of their intentions. We also seem to know very little of their origins. I would like to ask, as a starting question: If they are so advanced, and have been able to "possess" dead bodies belonging to humans, why couldn't they just clone their own bodies? And why do they need mortal bodies, to begin with? |
Deitra Vess
Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel
640
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Posted - 2015.09.14 04:35:22 -
[2] - Quote
I'm assuming for biomass, but I'm really no scientist... I think we can rule out they're after trophies. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1436
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 05:03:32 -
[3] - Quote
Well, if they're a Jovian offshoot, they may be investigating the Jovian tech in our heads. |
Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
13
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Posted - 2015.09.14 05:11:58 -
[4] - Quote
Perhaps, but it seems like they use Jovian bodies as well as bodies of capsuleers, possibly normal humans as well. And the technology we use is supposedly well behind contemporary Jovian technology. So besides needing a host for their informophs(or whatever it is they are), I'm not sure of why they couldn't use the Jove tech they possess to clone their own human bodies using perhaps stolen DNA to keep it fresh or something. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1436
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 05:26:17 -
[5] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:Perhaps, but it seems like they use Jovian bodies as well as bodies of capsuleers, possibly normal humans as well. And the technology we use is supposedly well behind contemporary Jovian technology. So besides needing a host for their informophs(or whatever it is they are), I'm not sure of why they couldn't use the Jove tech they possess to clone their own human bodies using perhaps stolen DNA to keep it fresh or something.
They're clearly connected to the Sleepers in Anoikis. As a result, I think it's safe to say they're not playing with cutting-edge Jovian tech, either. So it's entirely possible that they're collecting Capsuleer corpses not to reuse the biomass, but to see how much of a threat we represent.
And by that, I'm not talking about our weapons technology. I'm talking about to what degree our implants can interface with their technology. After all, we can make use of their Entosis Links to connect our minds to independent structures. If you were them, wouldn't you want to know if the tech in our heads allows us to make use of a salvaged Lux? Presumably before we went ahead and used them on you?
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
13
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Posted - 2015.09.14 05:40:58 -
[6] - Quote
Speaking in strategic terms, sure. But if I were them, I wouldn't be giving the people of New Eden a reason to salvage/revere-engineer my weapons and use them against me in self-defense :P |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2010
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Posted - 2015.09.14 06:01:30 -
[7] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:I'm assuming for biomass, but I'm really no scientist... I think we can rule out they're after trophies. Resource, indeed. They don't grow clones out from vacuum.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
13
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 06:21:19 -
[8] - Quote
That's true, they don't. Biomass is one good reason to harvest dead bodies. So, perhaps they're doing it to reproduce? But again, why go through the trouble of adapting mortal bodies to their specifications instead of just building robots to put their infomorphs in, or something? |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
708
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Posted - 2015.09.14 07:12:19 -
[9] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:That's true, they don't. Biomass is one good reason to harvest dead bodies. So, perhaps they're doing it to reproduce? But again, why go through the trouble of adapting mortal bodies to their specifications instead of just building robots to put their infomorphs in, or something?
Probably because they got sick of dreaming of electric lifestock.
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
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Solu Terona
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
60
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Posted - 2015.09.14 07:33:32 -
[10] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:That's true, they don't. Biomass is one good reason to harvest dead bodies. So, perhaps they're doing it to reproduce? But again, why go through the trouble of adapting mortal bodies to their specifications instead of just building robots to put their infomorphs in, or something?
Robotics are still MILES behind wetware when dealing with complex tasks that require adaptability and or evolution on the fly. Even the rogue drones can't match something with neurons behind the controls of a ship.
Although being Jovian or Sleeper in origin, the Drifters could just be robots based in wetware with an extremely advanced learning algorithm.
"The Stars will forever call to their children."
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Vollhov
Senators of Eridan Red Alliance
247
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Posted - 2015.09.14 07:57:16 -
[11] - Quote
They "drifters" Here fly past. Travel like gypsies.
Jamyl Sarum "Good and evil"
Jamyl Sarum in "EVE: Templar One"
Jamyl the Great
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Skyweir Kinnison
Federal Museum Ethnological Acquisitions
85
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Posted - 2015.09.14 08:54:37 -
[12] - Quote
Pure speculation, of course, but one wonders whether there may be a connection with the Jovian Disease. Perhaps the Drifters are the result of excessive genetic experimentation gone awry. If I were to experiment on the very fringes of science as the Jove may have done, I might be inclined to try to build a safeguard into the results, such as a finite lifespan.
Perhaps the Drifters seek less genetically ravaged bodies to obtain 'blueprints' so that they may return their genetic code to something approximating normal? Cloned humans would be a very good test bed because of their genetic consistency.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1678
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Posted - 2015.09.14 11:03:54 -
[13] - Quote
Perhaps clones as engineered bodies are immune to whatever genetic problems ravage the Jove bodies |
Sinjin Mokk
Khanid Interstellar Survey and Security
640
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Posted - 2015.09.14 12:15:09 -
[14] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:Speaking in strategic terms, sure. But if I were them, I wouldn't be giving the people of New Eden a reason to salvage/revere-engineer my weapons and use them against me in self-defense :P
"But if I were them..."
Right there is perhaps the greatest mistake we're making. We're trying to figure their motives, needs and agendas based on our frame of reference. Truthfully, their agenda is probably something that seems very basic to them, but is exceedingly alien to us.
This goes a bit beyond thinking outside the box. We need to think outside the species.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1438
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Posted - 2015.09.14 13:52:57 -
[15] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:Speaking in strategic terms, sure. But if I were them, I wouldn't be giving the people of New Eden a reason to salvage/revere-engineer my weapons and use them against me in self-defense :P
We've already shown that we'll do exactly that without any aggressive moves on their part. When the Circadian Seekers first started showing up, they didn't shoot back. They scanned things, but they never initiated actual hostilities. Yet we've got Entosis Links. We didn't come up with the idea on our own, you know. We destroyed thousands of Seekers to get the Antikythera Elements. Unprovoked.
So who's using weapons in self-defense here? |
Tyrel Toov
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
619
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 15:50:14 -
[16] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Ferrucio Surge wrote:Speaking in strategic terms, sure. But if I were them, I wouldn't be giving the people of New Eden a reason to salvage/revere-engineer my weapons and use them against me in self-defense :P We've already shown that we'll do exactly that without any aggressive moves on their part. When the Circadian Seekers first started showing up, they didn't shoot back. They scanned things, but they never initiated actual hostilities. Yet we've got Entosis Links. We didn't come up with the idea on our own, you know. We destroyed thousands of Seekers to get the Antikythera Elements. Unprovoked. So who's using weapons in self-defense here? I don't think the "but we fired the first shot" argument is a valid one anymore. They're shooting at us, and don't appear inclined to negotiate a cessation of hostility in the near future.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Deitra Vess
Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel
642
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Posted - 2015.09.14 16:43:39 -
[17] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Ferrucio Surge wrote:Speaking in strategic terms, sure. But if I were them, I wouldn't be giving the people of New Eden a reason to salvage/revere-engineer my weapons and use them against me in self-defense :P We've already shown that we'll do exactly that without any aggressive moves on their part. When the Circadian Seekers first started showing up, they didn't shoot back. They scanned things, but they never initiated actual hostilities. Yet we've got Entosis Links. We didn't come up with the idea on our own, you know. We destroyed thousands of Seekers to get the Antikythera Elements. Unprovoked. So who's using weapons in self-defense here?
Self defense is pretty subjective... We shot at them so they shot back. In the end were both defending ourselves, so really who cares who shot first or the reasonings behind them? Personally, unless I missed something they are shooting people who never shot them now. Were both fighting in self defense, I'd rather they lose the self defense fight instead of us, don't you agree? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1439
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 16:45:32 -
[18] - Quote
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 'look at us, we're so terrible'. Did capsuleers fire the first shots? Probably. Does it matter? Nope.
Now, you might ask: Why not? Why, as a reasonably moral individual, do I feel it doesn't matter?
And really, the answer's pretty simple: Because it's me they're shooting at, so slag 'em.
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Rauour Engil
Rabies Inc.
13
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Posted - 2015.09.14 18:31:19 -
[19] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:The Drifters, as we all know, are being incredibly silent of their intentions. We also seem to know very little of their origins. I would like to ask, as a starting question: If they are so advanced, and have been able to "possess" dead bodies belonging to humans, why couldn't they just clone their own bodies? And why do they need mortal bodies, to begin with? One theory is that the drifters had been inhabiting the virtual substrates found embedded in the sleeper infrastructures, but have now decided, for whatever reason, they want/need to come back to the physical world. Perhaps destroying all those sleeper drones and structures turned us into their number one threat? Perhaps there are far more trans-human consciousnesses than available bodies, hence the 'harvest'. Perhaps consciousnesses can breed in virtual constructs and they've run out of physical housing?
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
13
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Posted - 2015.09.15 05:57:59 -
[20] - Quote
Rauour Engil wrote:Ferrucio Surge wrote:The Drifters, as we all know, are being incredibly silent of their intentions. We also seem to know very little of their origins. I would like to ask, as a starting question: If they are so advanced, and have been able to "possess" dead bodies belonging to humans, why couldn't they just clone their own bodies? And why do they need mortal bodies, to begin with? One theory is that the drifters had been inhabiting the virtual substrates found embedded in the sleeper infrastructures, but have now decided, for whatever reason, they want/need to come back to the physical world. Perhaps destroying all those sleeper drones and structures turned us into their number one threat? Perhaps there are far more trans-human consciousnesses than available bodies, hence the 'harvest'. Perhaps consciousnesses can breed in virtual constructs and they've run out of physical housing?
That's an interesting idea. Reminds me of a science fiction holoreel I once watched called "Ghost in the Shell".
Deitra Vess wrote:
Self defense is pretty subjective... We shot at them so they shot back. In the end were both defending ourselves, so really who cares who shot first or the reasonings behind them? Personally, unless I missed something they are shooting people who never shot them now. Were both fighting in self defense, I'd rather they lose the self defense fight instead of us, don't you agree?
If they didn't like us messing with the Sleepers in Wormhole space, I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier to just tell us instead of just lashing out. Of course, if that's really the reason behind their attacks upon us. |
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7608
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Posted - 2015.09.15 06:51:24 -
[21] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote: If they didn't like us messing with the Sleepers in Wormhole space, I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier to just tell us instead of just lashing out.
Because asking Capsuleers to not do something works so wonderfully well.
As for the rest, remember that the appearance of the Vigilant Tyrannos was presaged by the Sisters of EVE announcing a change in Sleeper drone behavior, and then Caroline's Star. Caroline's Star is presumably tied with the shattered systems and Thera, where we find evidence of extensive Sleeper infrastructure; what's more, we also find a constellation under Sansha dominion, and signs of supercarriers lost in fighting the Sleepers.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Rauour Engil
Rabies Inc.
13
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Posted - 2015.09.15 10:12:38 -
[22] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Ferrucio Surge wrote: If they didn't like us messing with the Sleepers in Wormhole space, I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier to just tell us instead of just lashing out.
Because asking Capsuleers to not do something works so wonderfully well. As for the rest, remember that the appearance of the Vigilant Tyrannos was presaged by the Sisters of EVE announcing a change in Sleeper drone behavior, and then Caroline's Star. Caroline's Star is presumably tied with the shattered systems and Thera, where we find evidence of extensive Sleeper infrastructure; what's more, we also find a constellation under Sansha dominion, and signs of supercarriers lost in fighting the Sleepers. The Sansha connection is interesting isn't it? So, was it Nation that got there first, stole a range of technology (worm hole creation and management for a start), and kicked what's turned out to be a hornets nest? Or, was it Jamly with her crazy weapons technology that destroyed the elder fleet? Certainly the new shielding and Entosis technology appears to have been the last straw.
Also I wonder if it's not just us and the Jove that have/had factions. The sleepers and drifters appear to be somewhat different in their demeanor. I wish we could get some intelligence from inside Nation. SoE suggested that Jamly represented a existential threat, what's their view of the drifters and nation? Anyone know?
It's bad enough that Nation has kidnapped and done god only knows what to so many with their slave implants but I think we're lucky the drifters only appear to be after Capsuleers, if that changes.....
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
16
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Posted - 2015.09.15 22:26:32 -
[23] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Ferrucio Surge wrote: If they didn't like us messing with the Sleepers in Wormhole space, I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier to just tell us instead of just lashing out.
Because asking Capsuleers to not do something works so wonderfully well. That's not the point I'm getting at. If they were to ask us to stop, and we refused, would that not be a good reason to respond with force? My point is there seems to be no explicit motive, and it would be easier to understand their intent if we were explicitly in the wrong, in violation of their request. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2018
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Posted - 2015.09.16 03:28:14 -
[24] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:That's true, they don't. Biomass is one good reason to harvest dead bodies. So, perhaps they're doing it to reproduce? But again, why go through the trouble of adapting mortal bodies to their specifications instead of just building robots to put their infomorphs in, or something? Biological material consists of already constructed nanofactories, that are way more flexible and self-sustaining compared to robotic bodies. Take for example cyberenhanced limb. You can make it way stronger than human biological arm, but you won't be able to get same degree of precision, speed and sensitivity. The Maker knows its craft.
As for biomaterial retrieval, you need way greater energy to construct it from mineral components, because even living cells, that construct it, consume energy. Lifting biomaterial from the planet requires energy as well, for you need to overcome the gravity well and atmosphere. Picking out floating biomaterial from space looks way more efficient.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1679
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Posted - 2015.09.16 07:42:18 -
[25] - Quote
Ferrucio Surge wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Ferrucio Surge wrote: If they didn't like us messing with the Sleepers in Wormhole space, I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier to just tell us instead of just lashing out.
Because asking Capsuleers to not do something works so wonderfully well. That's not the point I'm getting at. If they were to ask us to stop, and we refused, would that not be a good reason to respond with force? My point is there seems to be no explicit motive, and it would be easier to understand their intent if we were explicitly in the wrong, in violation of their request. Understanding someone's demands is a crucial first step to diplomacy. I don't know if diplomacy is possible, but until we know exactly what they're after, I would rather leave that door open.
Perhaps they have tried to communicate with us already in a way we simply don't understand. It would be arrogant of us to think that they should be able to communicate with us even if we don't know how to communicate with them. |
Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
17
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Posted - 2015.09.16 08:28:44 -
[26] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Ferrucio Surge wrote:That's true, they don't. Biomass is one good reason to harvest dead bodies. So, perhaps they're doing it to reproduce? But again, why go through the trouble of adapting mortal bodies to their specifications instead of just building robots to put their infomorphs in, or something? Biological material consists of already constructed nanofactories, that are way more flexible and self-sustaining compared to robotic bodies. Take for example cyberenhanced limb. You can make it way stronger than human biological arm, but you won't be able to get same degree of precision, speed and sensitivity. The Maker knows its craft. As for biomaterial retrieval, you need way greater energy to construct it from mineral components, because even living cells, that construct it, consume energy. Lifting biomaterial from the planet requires energy as well, for you need to overcome the gravity well and atmosphere. Picking out floating biomaterial from space looks way more efficient.
Makes sense from a utilitarian perspective.
Quote:Perhaps they have tried to communicate with us already in a way we simply don't understand. It would be arrogant of us to think that they should be able to communicate with us even if we don't know how to communicate with them.
I admit that's possible, but would it really be that hard for such an advanced society to find some method of communication, especially if they interface with our technology, already?
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
2018
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Posted - 2015.09.16 10:16:40 -
[27] - Quote
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best one. Sometimes - not. But bringing in hypotheses for more complex explanation without exact evidences would smell like "conspiracy theory" and other incompetent ideas.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1453
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Posted - 2015.09.16 17:48:56 -
[28] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Perhaps they have tried to communicate with us already in a way we simply don't understand. It would be arrogant of us to think that they should be able to communicate with us even if we don't know how to communicate with them.
They do communicate with us already. They generate CONCORD-compliant identification codes. CONCORD didn't assign the names 'Apollo Tyrannos' and 'Artemis Tyrannos' to these things. They did. |
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
579
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Posted - 2015.09.16 19:21:57 -
[29] - Quote
My personal beliefs is we have mis-applied our society for theres.
Look closely at how they operate. The seeker ships are leading, they are being inquisitive. Imagine how much processing power is in such a ship that does not need to devote massive amounts of space and energy to resource. We know it isn't to weapons and performance.
Then there are the drifter ships. Pure war... and harvested bodies.
I am firm in my belief that the drifters are nothing more than what we consider drones. Self repairing and plentiful. The Seekers are most likely the controllers. Mass produced and expendable. A circuit control needs multiple backups and redundancies in case of even the most minor damage. A living being though... can destroy walls, and they can go around. Can be killed and any other can take it's place. The brain allows extremely adaptable and logical thought.
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Ferrucio Surge
Solaris Legionnaires
22
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Posted - 2015.09.21 06:16:34 -
[30] - Quote
I'm not so sure. It seems to me as though the Seekers are the Scouts, capable of doing significant damage actually. Their society seems more to me like something close to a hive-mind structure, with precise coordination oftentimes |
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