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Bellum Eternus
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.18 20:49:00 -
[1]
Title edited please don't bypass the profanity filter - Xorus
So, I'd like to hear from all you mission running weenies out there: has anyone been probed out since the patch change? We went from dozens of "omg they're griefing me!!" whine threads to literally zero overnight.
Sounds to me like the probes are now completely useless for finding targets in deadspace.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer. |
Miri Tirzan
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.18 20:50:00 -
[2]
Well, no one has found me... but using probes I have found more than a few mission runners.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.18 20:53:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan Well, no one has found me... but using probes I have found more than a few mission runners.
Could you elaborate on your successes? So far I've found zero mission runners in dead space, while otherwise I have a 100% success rate.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer. |
Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.18 21:30:00 -
[4]
mission runners are now a 100% protected species - their expensive ships protected they have WTZ and all is good in the world piracy and PVP are now dead. Thanks CCP for selling out to the protected dont shoot me unless youre an NPC type
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.12.18 21:36:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Miss Overlord mission runners are now a 100% protected species - their expensive ships protected they have WTZ and all is good in the world piracy and PVP are now dead. Thanks CCP for selling out to the protected dont shoot me unless youre an NPC type
Can you stop posting negative stuff in every thread please? I dont think ive seen a positive post from you in the last week or so.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2006.12.18 21:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Miss Overlord mission runners are now a 100% protected species - their expensive ships protected they have WTZ and all is good in the world piracy and PVP are now dead. Thanks CCP for selling out to the protected dont shoot me unless youre an NPC type
Can you stop posting negative stuff in every thread please? I dont think ive seen a positive post from you in the last week or so.
Negative and wrong, I might add.
Astrometrics 3 Astrometrics Pinpointing 2 Astrometrics Triangulation 3 Signal Acquisition 3 Covops 3
Buzzard + 1(!) Spook probe = 4 mission runners 2 of them not via their drones. Raven and a Drake while they were in the dead space with a probe that only has sensor strength of 5...
"mission runners are now a 100% protected species"... pfft
People give up too easy imo.
Originally by: Big Al
Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.18 21:56:00 -
[7]
ive got 5s in the basic and 4s across the board on the subset astrometric skills. Plus covert ops 4
Not 100% but basically its harder now than it was before revelations which is saying something as it used to be on the plane etc
ALso noticed ship losses have gone down = less ships being sold = industry is suffering from a lack of demand these changes have wid reaching affects that said exploration is easier so dont change that CCP because the time in versus reward out etc is about a fine balance just need to fix the ship scanning to make it easier to find mikssion runners but not to easy
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:03:00 -
[8]
"mission runners are now a 100% protected species - their expensive ships protected they have WTZ and all is good in the world piracy and PVP are now dead. Thanks CCP for selling out to the protected dont shoot me unless youre an NPC type"
Translation WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Oh ya btw since when was killing mission runners ever really considered pvp hahahahah.
Look ferreting out a mission runner running a level 4, mean a big loss for the mission runner and potentially big windfall for the pirate, and the mission runner has almost ZERO chance of taking out he pirate. It only makes sense it should then be quite hard to locate a mission runner.
Stop whining because you no longer have EZ mode.
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Hoshi
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Negative and wrong, I might add.
Astrometrics 3 Astrometrics Pinpointing 2 Astrometrics Triangulation 3 Signal Acquisition 3 Covops 3
Buzzard + 1(!) Spook probe = 4 mission runners 2 of them not via their drones. Raven and a Drake while they were in the dead space with a probe that only has sensor strength of 5...
"mission runners are now a 100% protected species"... pfft
People give up too easy imo.
So just because you got extremely lucky and found something which you have less than 1% chance to find per scan the system is working?
0.67% for the drake and 0.94% for the raven if they where 10 au away and not using shield extenders, with SEs it might end up slightly above 1% chance. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
j0sephine
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:09:00 -
[10]
"So just because you got extremely lucky and found something which you have less than 1% chance to find per scan the system is working?"
I'd say if he managed to find 4 separate targets each with 1% chance to find, in a single scan... then it's indication the system is broken, if anything. That's like, 0.00000001 chance of happening O.o
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Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hoshi So just because you got extremely lucky and found something which you have less than 1% chance to find per scan the system is working?
0.67% for the drake and 0.94% for the raven if they where 10 au away and not using shield extenders, with SEs it might end up slightly above 1% chance.
I'm still playing with it, and admittedly I am messing with it in a system chock full of mission runners. However, I have a feeling your numbers may be off a bit. I seem to be picking them up fairly consistantly. /shrug
Originally by: Big Al
Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
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d026
Herrscher der Zeit Jagdgeschwader The Pentagram
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:11:00 -
[12]
if you get me in my faction/deadspace fitted cnr 1% chance to probe me seems rather high:)
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:12:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/12/2006 22:13:18
If those numbers with 1% are correct, its nerfed too much imo. Its not right if mission runners can sit around in faction ships, feeling completely safe, in the middle of low sec. Thats not how the game is designed or intended to work. There should be a element of danger in low sec and 0.0, and I dont mean 1%.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: j0sephine "So just because you got extremely lucky and found something which you have less than 1% chance to find per scan the system is working?"
I'd say if he managed to find 4 separate targets each with 1% chance to find, in a single scan... then it's indication the system is broken, if anything. That's like, 0.00000001 chance of happening O.o
Wasn't a single scan. 20 minute probe with analyze time of ~1 minute. Was 4 or 5 scans...
Originally by: Big Al
Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
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d026
Herrscher der Zeit Jagdgeschwader The Pentagram
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:14:00 -
[15]
Edited by: d026 on 18/12/2006 22:17:14 Edited by: d026 on 18/12/2006 22:15:16 the game is also not intended that any tII fittet crap ship can kill my NPC fitted cnr everytime they manage to enter my mission. be resonable.. if you want to get me on my mission, work damn hard for it (like i worked damn hard for my cnr, dude it took me several month to first get one! and you want to get one while launching 1-2 probes wtf? are you braindead'). the reward is just to high for you if probes would work like you wish em to.. also there is always the chance to get me at the gate..
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Victor Kruger
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:23:00 -
[16]
Well, Jim, how can you tell if the game is designed or intended this way? Are you a Dev in disguise?
CCP saw where the money is, they adapted towards it.
It's not the leet PvP people who bring in the cash, it's the much despised carebears. --------------- Hey, where's my portrait |
j0sephine
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:26:00 -
[17]
Edited by: j0sephine on 18/12/2006 22:30:20
"If those numbers with 1% are correct, its nerfed too much imo. Its not right if mission runners can sit around in faction ships, feeling completely safe, in the middle of low sec. Thats not how the game is designed or intended to work. There should be a element of danger in low sec and 0.0, and I dont mean 1%."
With that 1% find chance in 10 minutes 2 ships with 1 minute analysis time per pass have 20% (1 in 5) chance to locate their target. Five more minutes and it drops to more than 1 in 4 (~27%)
Hardly lot of work given the target is generally easy prey loaded with very valuable loot, is it? And quite real danger. Math can be ***** like that...
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Galk
Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:29:00 -
[18]
You guys realy only have yourselfs to blame tbh.
CCP put it into easy mode, what did people do, griefed highsec missioners... ccp never admitted it flat out (do they ever) but you all saw kierons text before they ammended it out of the final patchnotes..... I don't think much of ccp over the issue, but they knew flatout it was going to hurt them sooner or later, why the knee jerk in totaly the other direction.
Im in total agreement with the guys that were going around scanning out missioners in low sec before they changed the scanning, aside the off plain (which the dedicated and clever got around anyway).
There was little wrong with it, you could catch the non attenutive with ease... how it should have remained.
The only real issue with highsec mission scanning, ofc war targets using the near immunity of deadspace... but even thats a little weak.... you would have to be a complete idiot to travel around a highsec hub over gates in a mission ship with protential hostiles around.
______
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:30:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/12/2006 22:34:17
Originally by: j0sephine
With that 1% find chance in 10 minutes 2 ships with 1 minute analysis time per pass have 20% (1 in 5) chance to locate their target.
Hardly lot of work given the target is generally easy prey loaded with very valuable loot, is it? And quite real danger. Math can be ***** like that...
That sounds pretty decent then. Good. :)
Originally by: Victor Kruger Well, Jim, how can you tell if the game is designed or intended this way? Are you a Dev in disguise?
If I was a dev, I would camp Tuxford daily.
Quote:
CCP saw where the money is, they adapted towards it.
It's not the leet PvP people who bring in the cash, it's the much despised carebears.
Like j0sephine posted, the chance seems pretty Ok at the moment, so I guess everyone is happy.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:39:00 -
[20]
Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 18/12/2006 22:30:20
"If those numbers with 1% are correct, its nerfed too much imo. Its not right if mission runners can sit around in faction ships, feeling completely safe, in the middle of low sec. Thats not how the game is designed or intended to work. There should be a element of danger in low sec and 0.0, and I dont mean 1%."
With that 1% find chance in 10 minutes 2 ships with 1 minute analysis time per pass have 20% (1 in 5) chance to locate their target. Five more minutes and it drops to more than 1 in 4 (~27%)
Hardly lot of work given the target is generally easy prey loaded with very valuable loot, is it? And quite real danger. Math can be ***** like that...
It's actually more annoying than just multiplying 1% * 20. Let's see if I remember stats... 99% chance of failure for every scan. That's .99^20 = .8179, or 81.79% chance ALL 20 scans fail, leaving you with an 18.21% chance to scan someone. Close to 20, indeed, but not quite.
Hey, you said math can be a *****. I'm just exposing how *****y it is =P ----------------------------
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
WTB: Friggin' portrait |
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MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Miss Overlord mission runners are now a 100% protected species
Once again MO wins the Dread Pirate Crybaby award. Whaaa! I can't go sneak up on someone already aggroed by a gazillion NPCs anymore.
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell |
j0sephine
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:54:00 -
[22]
"That's .99^20 = .8179, or 81.79% chance ALL 20 scans fail, leaving you with an 18.21% chance to scan someone. Close to 20, indeed, but not quite."
Yes; i should've put the ~ in front of that 20, was too lazy to post the exact numbers ^^
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Magnus Card
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.18 22:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Miss Overlord ive got 5s in the basic and 4s across the board on the subset astrometric skills. Plus covert ops 4
Not 100% but basically its harder now than it was before revelations which is saying something as it used to be on the plane etc
ALso noticed ship losses have gone down = less ships being sold = industry is suffering from a lack of demand these changes have wid reaching affects that said exploration is easier so dont change that CCP because the time in versus reward out etc is about a fine balance just need to fix the ship scanning to make it easier to find mikssion runners but not to easy
So what if its really hard, when the ship you are hunting down is worth billions the difficulty should be really high. Remember that risk or difficutly vs reward that so many people whine about? This is yours.
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Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:03:00 -
[24]
Just probed down a drake with an accuracy of 11km deviation.
Drake had no drones deployed and was in the middle of a "deadspace". Was one i've never seen before so don't know details. Pilot wouldn't answer my convo so couldn't get mission name. Maybe it's an exploration site but I don't think so.
Anyway, I think what I'm seeing is not all deadspaces are created equal. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are not set like CCP intends.
Originally by: Big Al
Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:26:00 -
[25]
Ok, we have a bunch of people who claim that the chance to find a mission runner is too low, fine, lets spell it out.
Lets hear from the people that want to hunt mission runners, how easy and how much time should you have to put into finding a mission runner?
It seems like people are claiming the chance is about 1% per scan now (providing someone is in scan range).
How high a chance should it be and in what timeline? (lets for the sake of the argument say you are using the best probes and with lev 4 minimum in all related skills)
5% in 10 min? 20% in 5 min? 100% in 1 min?
1% may seem like a small chance but as a scan cycle (acording to an earlier post) is 1 minute and the average lev 4 mission takes, what... 30min to complete that meens you have 30 chances to find one runner.
If you pick a good spot there will in all probability be multiple possible runners to find with a single scan (I doubt the hunters are picky about who they find) and thus they will have multiple chances of 1% to find somthing.
lets say there are 3 possible targets to find and you do 30 scans for them what is the real chance that you find atleast 1 target?
You do the math, to me this is just a post stating that the hunters dont have the patience to hunt.
I hunt in real life, I have an average of 1 kill per week, thats roughly 1 kill per 60 hours of hunting and that is in reality a fair time ratio for the game I hunt.
Im not saying that probes should give you 1 target per 60 hours of hunting but I am saying that hunting mission runners should be a dedicated profession that weeds out the slackers and incompetent.
At present aparently this is what it does as people are finding targets but a vocal few whine.
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Trotski II
Rasta Tropical Club
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Magnus Card
Originally by: Miss Overlord ive got 5s in the basic and 4s across the board on the subset astrometric skills. Plus covert ops 4
Not 100% but basically its harder now than it was before revelations which is saying something as it used to be on the plane etc
ALso noticed ship losses have gone down = less ships being sold = industry is suffering from a lack of demand these changes have wid reaching affects that said exploration is easier so dont change that CCP because the time in versus reward out etc is about a fine balance just need to fix the ship scanning to make it easier to find mikssion runners but not to easy
So what if its really hard, when the ship you are hunting down is worth billions the difficulty should be really high. Remember that risk or difficutly vs reward that so many people whine about? This is yours.
Plus if there¦s 2 or more runners on same system then chances start to increase.
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Shayla Sh'inlux
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:37:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Shayla Sh''inlux on 18/12/2006 23:41:14 It's not 1%. It's far less. Far, far less.
About 30 minutes after the patch we found a Ferox in deadspace and we were like "oh that's not so bad". Haven't found a ship ever since and we probed a LOT.
In fact, I have been sitting next to my own alt in deadspace. Got lvl 4 Covert, 5 Astro and the new skills lvl 3 and 4. Did 50 scans. Zilch. Zero. No results. Mind you, I knew *exactly* where the target was.
Then we tried overlapping probed. A corp mate of mine actually went through the trouble of getting a mission where a point existed so you could have 3 probes overlap. Their strengths are supposed to get added. 20 scans, no results. Zero. Zilch.
Probing deadspace is borked and missions are now as good as instanced. Anyone saying otherwise is either very, very lucky or a missioneer trying to protect his invulnerability.
Edit: let me add I don't MIND it being hard. In fact, I liked the old system where you actually had to know what you were doing and even then it often took 15-20 minutes to find someone.
Scanning down deadspace is now "hard" as in you just have to spam the analyze button for 20 minutes and hope you get really lucky and if you don't get lucky spam the button more.
Originally by: "Cy4n1d3"
You can't PVP with 4 mids.
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Tharim
Code-Blue
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Miss Overlord mission runners are now a 100% protected species - their expensive ships protected they have WTZ and all is good in the world piracy and PVP are now dead. Thanks CCP for selling out to the protected dont shoot me unless youre an NPC type
wts clue and IQ. Looks like you need it.
Originally by: Sharkbait what queue are you stuck in. logging into the character selection page, logging into game, or jumping somewhere?
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d026
Herrscher der Zeit Jagdgeschwader The Pentagram
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Posted - 2006.12.18 23:57:00 -
[29]
Quote: Scanning down deadspace is now "hard" as in you just have to spam the analyze button for 20 minutes and hope you get really lucky and if you don't get lucky spam the button more.
welcome to the grind finally:)
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Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.19 00:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: d026 welcome to the grind finally:)
Grind != good. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might As well Train Another Race |
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