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TrickyBlackSteel
Russia Caldari RUCA Emperor
31
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Posted - 2015.09.17 10:42:34 -
[1] - Quote
Hello ,we all know that capital armor ships have their set of tank(slave set),usually the Shield one have to choose to agility +5 % shield. Why wouldnt we allow Crystal set to work on capital boosters?we would see more content,more interesting fits on supers/dreads. Excuse me if there is a topic like mine somewhere,i couldnt find it! |
Trobax
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.09.17 10:54:38 -
[2] - Quote
Supers use shield boosters? rly?
Unless you talking about creating a new set of implants that add slave effects on shields and crystal effects on armor.
There is a logic behind each set. Shield boosters use a lot of cap and therefore crystals help minimize operation. Armor Repairers need to wait on cycle time to deliver , therefore increase in buffer helps.
If you get primed in a cap, you are dead, doesn't matter if you got crystals or not. Plus that might give a competitive edge to shield tanking caps. Think triage and add the cumulative effect of crystals. |
TrickyBlackSteel
Russia Caldari RUCA Emperor
31
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Posted - 2015.09.17 10:59:41 -
[3] - Quote
But what about slave?the armor position have their tank,what about the shield one?nothing!Lets make the crystals still available for shield reppers but with penalty or smth like that |
Trobax
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.09.17 11:15:08 -
[4] - Quote
Hence i said
"Unless you talking about creating a new set of implants that add slave effects on shields and crystal effects on armor."
Ancillary Capital Reppers could be a thing of the future. Or Capital Shield extenders to buff up shield HP.
But crystals to work on Capital Reppers? Just don't see it happening
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TrickyBlackSteel
Russia Caldari RUCA Emperor
31
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Posted - 2015.09.17 11:20:42 -
[5] - Quote
Ye probably you right (Yin and Yang) |
Jak'at
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
56
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Posted - 2015.09.17 13:45:57 -
[6] - Quote
+1 to this idea, I've been saying it for years.
Trobax wrote:Supers use shield boosters? rly?
Not all capitals are supers, Brobax.
I'd love a crystal boosting Nag or Chim for w-space.
Why would it be a bad idea for shield caps to be useful instead of just armor?
Armor for large engagements (buffer). Shield for small gang (active).
EVEN IF active chimeras became popular for triage, NEUTS always win.
Explain again why this is a bad idea? |
Trobax
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.09.17 14:12:48 -
[7] - Quote
Jak'at wrote:+1 to this idea, I've been saying it for years. Trobax wrote:Supers use shield boosters? rly?
Not all capitals are supers, Brobax. I'd love a crystal boosting Nag or Chim for w-space. Why would it be a bad idea for shield caps to be useful instead of just armor? Armor for large engagements (buffer). Shield for small gang (active). EVEN IF active chimeras became popular for triage, NEUTS always win. Explain again why this is a bad idea?
Not all caps are super, very astute observation, i was specifically referring to the remark about supers. Look up original post.
Neuts always win, even when it comes to the mighty archon (triage archon is active too).
Never said its a bad idea, but if you run the numbers, triage + crystals bonus might prove to be a big OP, including Capital rigs that help reduce cap shield booster's capacitor usage and cycle speed.
It sure is inline with the nature of shield tanking. Use the booster less for more cap conservation. But then you talk about w-space, you need to look at the implications that will arise in all space, W and K.
Slaves benefit armor supers, but crystals do not ( you need to consider that too). Factor everything into the equation, not just the point of view that serves your gameplay better, and then you end up with a dilemma that CCP will have address. For the moment, it ain't broke so why bother fixing it.
Finally,
Trobax wrote: Hence i said
"Unless you talking about creating a new set of implants that add slave effects on shields and crystal effects on armor."
Ancillary Capital Reppers could be a thing of the future. Or Capital Shield extenders to buff up shield HP.
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FireFrenzy
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
588
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Posted - 2015.09.18 07:48:11 -
[8] - Quote
There are implants for superpilots that are NOT highgrade slave sets? |
Trobax
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.09.18 08:02:06 -
[9] - Quote
FireFrenzy wrote:There are implants for superpilots that are NOT highgrade slave sets?
HG-1008 comes to mind
Argument is , slaves benefit Caps and Supers (armor), but crystals do not (shield)
CCP should run the number, and if crystals do not provide too big an advantage for Capital Boosters, then they could allow it.
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General Guardian
The Guardian Knights AXIOS.
121
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Posted - 2015.09.19 16:26:52 -
[10] - Quote
Or they could allow command links to buff local reps on capitals. That would be fun. |
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3102
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Posted - 2015.09.19 17:51:03 -
[11] - Quote
Better idea, disallow slaves implants to work on capital ships.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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FireFrenzy
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
594
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Posted - 2015.09.20 07:14:39 -
[12] - Quote
not to long ago a titan (a levi if memory serves) exploded that had been logged off for long enough (returning player to eve) that it had faction modules and a t1 (not even meta 1) shield booster fitted...
It looked rather weird... The problem is that supercaps arent "supposed" to be solo boats and if you want to drive by doomsday someone or something you have enough brick ehp that it shouldnt matter if you have a few, or even a few tens, of thousands of tank repping after action is just better... |
Trobax
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.09.20 07:39:17 -
[13] - Quote
I think original poster was thinking Shield capitals only, the remark on supers was probably a mishap.
Supers will be unaffected from crystals (unless they invent the superbooster- meh).
The links post could be fun, provided that links are on grid with the capital. So ehp buff to the max your command ship and engage.
Maybe petition ccp to run the numbers for crystal bonuses under triage-siege. Would help the niddy a lot too
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Anneka Rice
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1
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Posted - 2015.09.20 22:36:47 -
[14] - Quote
Nope Shield caps don't need them. shield caps all ready tank way more than armor and for the most part have more EHP so why do we need to change that? |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2734
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Posted - 2015.09.21 01:18:21 -
[15] - Quote
Anneka Rice wrote:Nope Shield caps don't need them. shield caps all ready tank way more than armor and for the most part have more EHP so why do we need to change that? all shield capitals? are you sure about that? |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
426
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Posted - 2015.09.21 07:55:57 -
[16] - Quote
There was talk, a long while ago now, of a Slave Crystal set and a Crystal Slave set - An armour set which boosted rep amount and a shield set which boosted raw HP (and would be viable on shield capitals). It seemed to have some traction for a while but then disappeared off the radar... |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
176
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Posted - 2015.09.21 10:32:20 -
[17] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Anneka Rice wrote:Nope Shield caps don't need them. shield caps all ready tank way more than armor and for the most part have more EHP so why do we need to change that? all shield capitals? are you sure about that?
The Caldari ones tank more than the Amarr ones (tank bonus's) and the Minmatar ones have more ehp than the Gallente ones (support/DPS bonus's) so yes seems fine to me.
Shield caps are harder to fit, armor fits can be done on the cheap were as shield needs isk to make them worth it.. but when you don't fit your capital ship like a scrub like its a T1 cruiser hull they are very good.
Phoenix is the highest tanking dread and also the best at blaping right now. The nag is used alot in WH space with both armor and shield fits, Chimera Has the largest Active tank in the game and can have cap stable tanks above 30k dps if fitted right and 60k+ Burst tanks. Wyvern has the 2nd largest EHP's after the Leviathan both of which are more than any thing else in the game. Levi has coolest DD in the game now and is also 2nd fastest after the rag, the rag haveing the best DD for killing armor supers is the fastest and also has more EHP than one of the other Armor titans. Nidhoggur is the best at RR'ing (quickly saving something like a pos) and has pretty much same tank as a nice fit archon if you spend some isk on it. and the Hel's are the only thing that can get close to a gang of wyverns in terms of active tanking each other while also been the fastest caps in the game.
So erm yer We don't need your help CCP plez don't mess with us..... |
Anthar Thebess
1307
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Posted - 2015.09.21 12:20:52 -
[18] - Quote
Before you mess in the implants check what is the difference between shield and armor capitals, include passive regen, shield boost at the beginning of the cycle , reps amount you can get from the modules, and all the stuff. Currently the best super is Wyvern , especially when you have more than one and can use remote repper.
Shield supers currently don't need boost, like caldari carrier.
Are you aware that phoenix can easily have few million EHP on a very cheap faction fit - now give it a crystals affecting shield boost.
Don't brake when something is not broken.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
500
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Posted - 2015.09.21 13:05:40 -
[19] - Quote
*cringes in horror at a Crystaled Swaglfar*
The Law is a point of View
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LT Alter
Death By Design Did he say Jump
189
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Posted - 2015.09.21 17:40:45 -
[20] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:*cringes in horror at a Crystaled Swaglfar*
I was thinking the same thing.. |
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9720
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Posted - 2015.09.21 18:06:29 -
[21] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote: Don't break when something is not broken.
Add crystal effects, and diminish repaired hp of active shield boosters, or boost armor active reppers. Can be balanced I think.
Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2734
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Posted - 2015.09.21 18:53:43 -
[22] - Quote
Tappits wrote:Rowells wrote:Anneka Rice wrote:Nope Shield caps don't need them. shield caps all ready tank way more than armor and for the most part have more EHP so why do we need to change that? all shield capitals? are you sure about that? The Caldari ones tank more than the Amarr ones (tank bonus's) and the Minmatar ones have more ehp than the Gallente ones (support/DPS bonus's) so yes seems fine to me. Shield caps are harder to fit, armor fits can be done on the cheap were as shield needs isk to make them worth it.. but when you don't fit your capital ship like a scrub like its a T1 cruiser hull they are very good. Phoenix is the highest tanking dread and also the best at blaping right now. The nag is used alot in WH space with both armor and shield fits, Chimera Has the largest Active tank in the game and can have cap stable tanks above 30k dps if fitted right and 60k+ Burst tanks. Wyvern has the 2nd largest EHP's after the Leviathan both of which are more than any thing else in the game. Levi has coolest DD in the game now and is also 2nd fastest after the rag, the rag haveing the best DD for killing armor supers is the fastest and also has more EHP than one of the other Armor titans. Nidhoggur is the best at RR'ing (quickly saving something like a pos) and has pretty much same tank as a nice fit archon if you spend some isk on it. and the Hel's are the only thing that can get close to a gang of wyverns in terms of active tanking each other while also been the fastest caps in the game. So erm yer We don't need your help CCP plez don't mess with us..... It is true that most (ill take your word on the thanny niddy comparison) have better base tanks. That being said, once you go beyond that into links and and inplants, the difference drastically shifts. It goes from small to moderate differences to vastly different situations. The potential max tank on an archon is vastly superior to the chimera, even after heat.
I wouldn't be all to adverse to shield capitals losing a bit of hp from certain areas to justify allowing proper implant usage. Either that or armor tanks becoming less reliant on the bonuses from implants and links and buffing the base.
The main issue being (imo) shield fits having less options to specialize in their strengths compared to armor specializing in theirs. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
502
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Posted - 2015.09.21 20:45:28 -
[23] - Quote
You say that but shield Moros are a thing.... What is a shield cap and not a shield cap?
The Law is a point of View
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Anneka Rice
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1
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Posted - 2015.09.21 21:18:08 -
[24] - Quote
Rowells wrote:That being said, once you go beyond that into links and and inplants, the difference drastically shifts. It goes from small to moderate differences to vastly different situations. The potential max tank on an archon is vastly superior to the chimera, even after heat.
Plz Stop typing as you seem to not know anything about cap ships or even been able to use EFT. and looking at your kill-board history i can see why.
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote: Don't break when something is not broken.
Add crystal effects, and diminish repaired hp of active shield boosters, or boost armor active reppers. Can be balanced I think.
It already is balanced no need to change anything. |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
86
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Posted - 2015.09.21 22:33:45 -
[25] - Quote
Anneka Rice wrote:Rowells wrote:That being said, once you go beyond that into links and and inplants, the difference drastically shifts. It goes from small to moderate differences to vastly different situations. The potential max tank on an archon is vastly superior to the chimera, even after heat. Plz Stop typing as you seem to not know anything about cap ships or even been able to use EFT. and looking at your kill-board history i can see why. Bagrat Skalski wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote: Don't break when something is not broken.
Add crystal effects, and diminish repaired hp of active shield boosters, or boost armor active reppers. Can be balanced I think. It already is balanced no need to change anything.
Im sure shield capitals are far superior to armor, thats why your alliance use armor to keep it interesting :P
Quick look at KB show PL lost 4 armor dreads this month (including a phoenix) and 1 shield fit phoenix. Clear favor for armor over shield for capital use. |
Anneka Rice
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1
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Posted - 2015.09.21 22:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:Im sure shield capitals are far superior to armor, thats why your alliance use armor to keep it interesting :P
Quick look at KB show PL lost 4 armor dreads this month (including a phoenix) and 1 shield fit phoenix. Clear favor for armor over shield for capital use.
PL Picked Armor supers and caps because in 2010/2011 our two most used fleet ships were both armor so it was decided at that point to have an armor super fleet so there was an escalation path from subs to caps to supers that all use the same command ships and stuff. then we invented slowcats and as our supers were mostly armor we used armor carriers... we do have a shield slowcat fleet just like we have a shield super and titan fleet but it takes time to build. but as of now we are about 70% armor and 30% shield so we can now escalate both armor and to some extent shield at this point. |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
87
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Posted - 2015.09.22 00:26:38 -
[27] - Quote
Anneka Rice wrote:Haatakan Reppola wrote:Im sure shield capitals are far superior to armor, thats why your alliance use armor to keep it interesting :P
Quick look at KB show PL lost 4 armor dreads this month (including a phoenix) and 1 shield fit phoenix. Clear favor for armor over shield for capital use. PL Picked Armor supers and caps because in 2010/2011 our two most used fleet ships were both armor so it was decided at that point to have an armor super fleet so there was an escalation path from subs to caps to supers that all use the same command ships and stuff. then we invented slowcats and as our supers were mostly armor we used armor carriers... we do have a shield slowcat fleet just like we have a shield super and titan fleet but it takes time to build. but as of now we are about 70% armor and 30% shield so we can now escalate both armor and to some extent shield at this point.
Have seen claims from PL members for years that shield is better, but only ever seen "proof of consept" battles. If shields were the way to go you would already be using shield capital fleets as your main doctrine |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2734
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Posted - 2015.09.22 00:38:12 -
[28] - Quote
Anneka Rice wrote:Haatakan Reppola wrote:Im sure shield capitals are far superior to armor, thats why your alliance use armor to keep it interesting :P
Quick look at KB show PL lost 4 armor dreads this month (including a phoenix) and 1 shield fit phoenix. Clear favor for armor over shield for capital use. PL Picked Armor supers and caps because in 2010/2011 our two most used fleet ships were both armor so it was decided at that point to have an armor super fleet so there was an escalation path from subs to caps to supers that all use the same command ships and stuff. then we invented slowcats and as our supers were mostly armor we used armor carriers... we do have a shield slowcat fleet just like we have a shield super and titan fleet but it takes time to build. but as of now we are about 70% armor and 30% shield so we can now escalate both armor and to some extent shield at this point. Surely it has nothing to do with the fact that armor supers are proliferated far more across the entirety of eve. Or the fact that (unless they have changed drastically recently) the numbers of either amarr or gallente supers individually outnumber the number of caldari and minmatar combined. Nope, has nothing to do with the balls-deep tank you can pull with slaves.
But that's besides the point, since I doubt any super pilots would be interested in a crystal set for their shield boosting wyvern or hel. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2734
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Posted - 2015.09.22 00:40:54 -
[29] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:You say that but shield Moros are a thing.... What is a shield cap and not a shield cap?
You would be comparing what the ship excels or specializes in. Arguably ambiguous with certain ships (looking at you minmatar).
If we were to compare things like shield moroses, we need to compare them to things like armor pheonixes. Or at first, to their own fitting options. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2637
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Posted - 2015.09.22 03:16:02 -
[30] - Quote
Crystal set does say it improves shield boosters, and Capital Shield Booster is a shield booster. I don't see why the crystal set shouldn't boost capital shield boosters.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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