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Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
2009
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Posted - 2015.09.18 09:46:31 -
[1] - Quote
https://www.themittani.com/features/time-derail-gravy-train
When i first started reading this I thought "oh great, another nerf wormholes article" but when i was done reading, I agreed with everything he said.
What are some of your thoughts on this?
Dear eve players, please try and use the word "content" less and instead, be specific. Thanks
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Dobriy
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
12
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Posted - 2015.09.18 10:11:53 -
[2] - Quote
But why the author of this article didn't propose just remove the anomalies in NS? I think it will be much better) |
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1559
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Posted - 2015.09.18 10:23:23 -
[3] - Quote
It's an idealistic article.
It's a true one but an idealistic one.
There comes a point in all games where everybody becomes rich. Eve has hit that.
A billion isk doesn't mean anything anymore.
Make eve harder. Maybe.
Yaay!!!!
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Winthorp
3683
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Posted - 2015.09.18 10:46:23 -
[4] - Quote
The whole article reaks of someone who just became bored with the game and too bitter to have a go at something different.
The article pretty much has no substance at all to any of his arguments that it just comes off like a crying teenager that just got dumped by their boyfriend and can't look at another boy at the mall.
Seriously keep playing Ark Two Step and don't come back.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
2009
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Posted - 2015.09.18 10:55:58 -
[5] - Quote
A bit uncalled for Winthorp but...
I think many people feel incursions earn too much isk given how safe they are to do. and it's probably past time that ccp changed things up with them.
On the wormhole capital escalations, if they were "turned off" it would probably lead to more people farming their connections and thus, more activity in space. I could be mistaken but i think Corbexx is an advocate for the removal of escalations too and it would be interesting to hear what he has to say on the subject.
Dear eve players, please try and use the word "content" less and instead, be specific. Thanks
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Winthorp
3683
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Posted - 2015.09.18 11:24:58 -
[6] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:A bit uncalled for Winthorp but...
I think many people feel incursions earn too much isk given how safe they are to do and it's probably past time that ccp changed things up with them.
On the wormhole capital escalations, if they were "turned off" it would probably lead to more people farming their connections and thus, more activity in space. I could be mistaken but i think Corbexx is an advocate for the removal of escalations too and it would be interesting to hear what he has to say on the subject.
How is it uncalled for, he doesn't reference anything of substance and it is literally a few paragraphs of an ex CSM with an over inflated ego that has become so bittervet that he felt he needed to write those few paragraphs of tears into an actual article that came of more like a rant.
Onto escalations as i have said in the trweetfleet wormholes slack channel, i believe we are about to get a WH escalations nerf. Day 1 of the summit minutes discusses WH PVE and then NDA's the discussion. Combine this with our current WH CSM that wants to nerf home WH escalation and encourage more actual group site farming with escalations based on ships other then capitals. (I hove spoken with Corbexx about this in the past and i really support a WH escalation nerf even though i am one of the bads abusing said mechanic).
His previous ideas i believe would encourage people to be in a lot of different ships out and about in more unsafe chains. What could anyone not like about that. Whether his ideas would ever line up with CCP's ideas on to how to solve this i would reserve judgement lol.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
874
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Posted - 2015.09.18 12:03:16 -
[7] - Quote
This quote says it all about the author's grasp of reality:
Quote: It needs more poor players who are desperate for their next paycheck,
Those guys don't:
Quote:who can be bribed to change sides. It needs more times where you swear at your PC, throw your headset down in disgust and swear to quit the game for good this time, only to come back the next day more determined than ever to get your revenge.
Those guys just leave, because a dystopian society makes for a great thing to read about, not to live through. |
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
63
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Posted - 2015.09.18 12:16:23 -
[8] - Quote
It's a problem, but solving it isn't simply a case of turning off existing isk faucets (and really, incursions isn't a particularly great example), all that would do would be to entrench the already powerful whilst making it harder for everyone else to catch up. |
Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4672
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Posted - 2015.09.18 12:24:18 -
[9] - Quote
He's not wrong on any particular point, but the article itself should just be titled 'sh!t we already know'.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Jezza McWaffle
Isogen 5
247
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Posted - 2015.09.18 12:31:05 -
[10] - Quote
Incursions are a great example, ridiculous amount of ISK for the level of safety.
I am really hoping we see the death of escalations, which also is stupid level of ISK for a few people. At least group sites with subs your amount of people equates to faster site times.
I agree with Winthorp here (and we've spoken before), there are definitely ways we can improve site running in the chain to make it better than it currently is for group work, currently the ISK / hour is fairly decent compared to other activities. though I do believe that the harder sites deserve higher payouts.
Talking about the article, it seems like alot of stuff these days, people complaining about a general aspect with no idea how to actually achieve the end goals, he could be a very good artistic Architect.
EVE's worst badass
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Borsek
Incertae Sedis
315
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Posted - 2015.09.18 12:35:53 -
[11] - Quote
I dunno about WH nerfs, it's one of the most dangerous forms of pve, even NS carriers carry less inherent risk.
However I agree that the 'small things are neat' is aids. Eve's combat per se is boring - equip the right stuff, maintain the correct range, shoot the right target. What made it fun was the fact your opponent LOST a lot of isk/time if you won. The adrenaline came from taking your new mercedes into a nuke fight and hoping it survived, not the actual combat itself. The feeling I achieved with t2 cruisers and t3 BS once can now only partially be replicated by using a dread, and I can replace even thos multiple times over.
All in all I agree with twostep, eve has become risk free in the sense that, even if I lose everything, I can print out 100M per hour easy just farming incursions in hisec, or even more with simple trading due to the massive market expansion.
What used to be a land filled with full-blown autists like myself, people who stabbed each other only in the places it would hurt most, is now filled with prancing normies having pillow fights with each other. Even if you win the fight, the feeling of accomplishment is similar to beating a 3 year old at chess. |
corbexx
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1400
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Posted - 2015.09.18 12:45:03 -
[12] - Quote
Winthorp wrote: Onto escalations as i have said in the trweetfleet wormholes slack channel, i believe we are about to get a WH escalations nerf. Day 1 of the summit minutes discusses WH PVE and then NDA's the discussion. Combine this with our current WH CSM that wants to nerf home WH escalation and encourage more actual group site farming with escalations based on ships other then capitals. (I hove spoken with Corbexx about this in the past and i really support a WH escalation nerf even though i am one of the bads abusing said mechanic).
His previous ideas i believe would encourage people to be in a lot of different ships out and about in more unsafe chains. What could anyone not like about that. Whether his ideas would ever line up with CCP's ideas on to how to solve this i would reserve judgement lol.
pretty much this. alot has been NDA'd out. I think a fair few would agree cap escalations are used for printing isk, but you know what its in the rules and I don't blame anyone for milking them for all there worth. I sure have.
I still don't think they are good for w space, though and want them changed.
Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
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Borsek
Incertae Sedis
315
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Posted - 2015.09.18 12:48:12 -
[13] - Quote
So is the next patch gonna be called Krabageddon? When all the krabs move back to nullsec?
Eve online: The great krab migration of 2015 |
Foedus Latro
Isogen 5
191
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Posted - 2015.09.18 13:30:36 -
[14] - Quote
Borsek wrote:I dunno about WH nerfs, it's one of the most dangerous forms of pve, even NS carriers carry less inherent risk.
It helps when you run escalations after closing your static and you're sitting on field with double digit dreads :))
Isogen 5 | Wormhole PvP Corporation
Director and Diplomat
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Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
2009
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Posted - 2015.09.18 13:56:07 -
[15] - Quote
corbexx wrote:I think a fair few would agree cap escalations are used for printing isk, but you know what its in the rules and I don't blame anyone for milking them for all there worth. I sure have.
I still don't think they are good for w space, though and want them changed.
Are you guys of the opinion that cap escalations are the problem or the fact that they can be ran multiple times before they despawn?
I hope it's the latter
Dear eve players, please try and use the word "content" less and instead, be specific. Thanks
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GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics K162
192
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Posted - 2015.09.18 14:10:25 -
[16] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:corbexx wrote:I think a fair few would agree cap escalations are used for printing isk, but you know what its in the rules and I don't blame anyone for milking them for all there worth. I sure have.
I still don't think they are good for w space, though and want them changed. Are you guys of the opinion that cap escalations are the problem or the fact that they can be ran multiple times before they despawn? I hope it's the latter
One or two people can do a complete escalation cycle for every site in a system multi boxing. and it can be done in near enough saftey. the loss of the ships them selves replaced in a day or 2 (t2) out to much bother.
so long as you dont get ganked more than once a week, its printing isk baby. (and according to the kb stats) most people are getting away with it for months/years before dying. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
4886
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Posted - 2015.09.18 14:48:22 -
[17] - Quote
Dobriy wrote:But why the author of this article didn't propose just remove the anomalies in NS? I think it will be much better)
When I was on the CSM, I basically said just that. Nullsec PvE should be group based, just like wormhole PvE used to be. You have to be in a group to take space in nullsec, why should you be able to make isk solo (and mostly risk free)?
Winthorp wrote:The whole article reaks of someone who just became bored with the game and too bitter to have a go at something different.
The article pretty much has no substance at all to any of his arguments that it just comes off like a crying teenager that just got dumped by their boyfriend and can't look at another boy at the mall.
Seriously keep playing Ark Two Step and don't come back.
I have done just about all there is to do in EVE, from highsec industry to nullsec. The whole article is about that the issue is not "I need something to do" but that when I do stuff to other people, they should care. That is what sets EVE apart from other games, and it is getting watered down every day.
Also, wtf is Ark?
Also, I love how your next post is basically agreeing with everything I said. I have no problem with capital escalations that take 10 or 15 people and some time to complete, so people have a chance to jump those people.
Mike Voidstar wrote:This quote says it all about the author's grasp of reality: Quote: It needs more poor players who are desperate for their next paycheck, Those guys don't: Quote:who can be bribed to change sides. It needs more times where you swear at your PC, throw your headset down in disgust and swear to quit the game for good this time, only to come back the next day more determined than ever to get your revenge. Those guys just leave, because a dystopian society makes for a great thing to read about, not to live through.
Uh, I lived through this. I have gotten so damn mad at this game so many times back in the past. My problem is that people don't get mad anymore. If you haven't done exactly what I described, you aren't playing EVE right.
CSM 7 Secretary
CSM 6 Alternate Delegate
@two_step_eve on Twitter
My Blog
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ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
327
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Posted - 2015.09.18 15:28:08 -
[18] - Quote
if you think theres risk in cap escalations you are doing it wrong.
The Wormhole Kid
Event Organizer of EVE New England
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4673
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Posted - 2015.09.18 15:28:53 -
[19] - Quote
Two step wrote:My problem is that people don't get mad anymore. If you haven't done exactly what I described, you aren't playing EVE right. Amen brother :)
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Aladar Dangerface
13. Enigma Project
242
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Posted - 2015.09.18 15:34:13 -
[20] - Quote
Escalation isk needs moved into the static and reduced a eouch.
Incursions need to DIAF. I was so hoping that the drifter incursions were the beginning of the end for the sansha ones.
I don't need twitter.
I'm already following you.
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KIAGumpy
Free Throbbing Veinal Penii For Spacmens Dead Terrorists
7
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Posted - 2015.09.18 15:51:16 -
[21] - Quote
Incursions are great and also not actually a huge isk fountain something like 3% of daily isk generated in eve.
Where else in eve do you have public fleets all working together for a common goal?
Public communities with srp and all the drama and general typical community stealing comes with.
Contesting leading to group not liking each other so much
Mom popping sprees and the tears that follow
Have you actually sat in an incursion fleet for a few hours and enjoyed it?
At least people have to be at keyboard unlike afktars... warp deploy drones come back in 20 mins to warp again nothing broken here at all.
I feel twostep is the donald trump of csm dudes going for the cheap percieved issues |
Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
520
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Posted - 2015.09.18 15:56:03 -
[22] - Quote
ExookiZ wrote:if you think theres risk in cap escalations you are doing it wrong.
ironic considering i dumpstered your home sites fleet twice in a 5 day period for around 100b
anyway i agree with the majority of the article - cap escalations are a huge moneymaker which probably needs scaling back but it's important to remember that they're also a huge content creator in high class space and people spend a lot of time hunting exposed caps. anything that exposes more capitals on field to make more money is a bonus in my eyes, so i wouldn't be against forcing people to risk more to get the same money. i honestly think that is the best solution, just force people to risk more.
the decision has probably already been made about what to do with escalations but you do need to be careful to not discourage people from running escalations and buying/fielding capitals - if anything create a mechanic which will encourage them to take more risk, not one that makes the isk generation easier.
i don't understand the whole moving escalation isk to static idea - what sort of risk are we creating there for people? who wants to kill a bunch of domis doing sites in a static? would you rather roll into a large capital fleet stuck in siege/triage and have a brawl with that or roll into some domis which will just mjd out and warp? |
Andrew Jester
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
1421
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Posted - 2015.09.18 16:08:37 -
[23] - Quote
just lol if you think narrowly avoiding being captured by the skin of your MJD just isn't the highest tier of WH elite dvd
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
1559
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Posted - 2015.09.18 16:19:48 -
[24] - Quote
Aladar Dangerface wrote:Escalation isk needs moved into the static and reduced a touch.
Incursions need to DIAF. I was so hoping that the drifter incursions were the beginning of the end for the sansha ones.
Reduced a touch? They need to be taken out and beaten to hell with a frying pan.
Move escalations into shattered space, link the shattered together into one giant highway. If people want to bear all day, make them bear in shattered space moving their gigantic bear fleet though shattered holes.
Enough of this instances solo locked up escalation in c5 and c6 space. It's rediculous.
Aka there is the mad.
"Well what about incursions and nullsec and ...."
... I don't flipping care, this is WSpace, I care about WSpace things!!.
If you are so panic'd that your ISK for hour will drop because Incursions pay more, then GTFO.
Yaay!!!!
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ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
327
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Posted - 2015.09.18 17:29:59 -
[25] - Quote
Braxus Deninard wrote:ExookiZ wrote:if you think theres risk in cap escalations you are doing it wrong. ironic considering i dumpstered your home sites fleet twice in a 5 day period for around 100b anyway i agree with the majority of the article - cap escalations are a huge moneymaker which probably needs scaling back but it's important to remember that they're also a huge content creator in high class space and people spend a lot of time hunting exposed caps. anything that exposes more capitals on field to make more money is a bonus in my eyes, so i wouldn't be against forcing people to risk more to get the same money. i honestly think that is the best solution, just force people to risk more. the decision has probably already been made about what to do with escalations but you do need to be careful to not discourage people from running escalations and buying/fielding capitals - if anything create a mechanic which will encourage them to take more risk, not one that makes the isk generation easier. i don't understand the whole moving escalation isk to static idea - what sort of risk are we creating there for people? who wants to kill a bunch of domis doing sites in a static? would you rather roll into a large capital fleet stuck in siege/triage and have a brawl with that or roll into some domis which will just mjd out and warp?
we were outdated ;) anyone who still runs escalations that way is rightly going to get dumpstered. but those days are gone, current trends are running cap escalations without caps on field for more than a second so the risk or content for others just isnt there.
more importantly, the fact that most of c5/c6 space is occupied by tiny farming corps is proof that escalations are tons of money, req little to no effort,and the risk and effort certainly isnt enough to stop people from trying
The Wormhole Kid
Event Organizer of EVE New England
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Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
98
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Posted - 2015.09.18 17:34:22 -
[26] - Quote
I'm sure that reducing escalations to domis in static would be really healthy.
How many groups out there roll/scan endless chains (invest countless hours) just for the opportunity to find someone bearing with caps? Will they continue to invest so much time and effort into the game when the biggest target they can find is a paladin?
And as for the 'more activity in wh space because ppl farming in static'; You think people will not roll connections in their statics (lets be honest, if escalations get kill, it will probably be unoccupied) and close not 1 system (their home), but 2 (static and home).
~lvl 60 paladin~
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Tug Speedman
Big Beaver Corp
7
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Posted - 2015.09.18 17:44:03 -
[27] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:I'm sure that reducing escalations to domis in static would be really healthy.
How many groups out there roll/scan endless chains (invest countless hours) just for the opportunity to find someone bearing with caps? Will they continue to invest so much time and effort into the game when the biggest target they can find is a paladin?
And as for the 'more activity in wh space because ppl farming in static'; You think people will not roll connections in their statics (lets be honest, if escalations get kill, it will probably be unoccupied) and close not 1 system (their home), but 2 (static and home).
This too much true! Risk averse wermholer always use mechanics to their protection.
Pvp group leave chain open, like direct highway to their home always open.
My proposal be broadcast chain to all eve and let the content come to you. More frag, more fun! |
corbexx
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1404
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Posted - 2015.09.18 18:02:28 -
[28] - Quote
Tug Speedman wrote:
My proposal be broadcast chain to all eve and let the content come to you. More frag, more fun!
that sounds like using null sec and dotlan, goons is recruiting.
Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
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Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp Chao3 Alliance
292
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Posted - 2015.09.18 21:26:36 -
[29] - Quote
The best and most important line in this article is "Any income source that isnGÇÖt based on direct competition with another player should pay peanuts compared to one that is."
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
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Winthorp
3691
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Posted - 2015.09.18 21:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
Two step wrote:Winthorp wrote:The whole article reaks of someone who just became bored with the game and too bitter to have a go at something different.
The article pretty much has no substance at all to any of his arguments that it just comes off like a crying teenager that just got dumped by their boyfriend and can't look at another boy at the mall.
Seriously keep playing Ark Two Step and don't come back. I have done just about all there is to do in EVE, from highsec industry to nullsec. The whole article is about that the issue is not "I need something to do" but that when I do stuff to other people, they should care. That is what sets EVE apart from other games, and it is getting watered down every day.
Sure i agreed with nerfing escalations, i always have.
You do realise in your article you provided no alternatives, no thought out structure to changes, nor did you go into any detail as to why they are bad. You just carried on about people are too rich now they don't care if they lose a ship now, blah blah blah. You really did cry like a child about how the cream pies don't taste any good and mummy keeps making me eat them.
That article was a joke m8, if you write more spend more then a few minutes thinking them out a bit, it was horrible to read.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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