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Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
524
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Posted - 2015.09.18 21:33:08 -
[31] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:I'm sure that reducing escalations to domis in static would be really healthy.
How many groups out there roll/scan endless chains (invest countless hours) just for the opportunity to find someone bearing with caps? Will they continue to invest so much time and effort into the game when the biggest target they can find is a paladin?
And as for the 'more activity in wh space because ppl farming in static'; You think people will not roll connections in their statics (lets be honest, if escalations get kill, it will probably be unoccupied) and close not 1 system (their home), but 2 (static and home).
exactly this. for example there's one major group in particular which does nothing but run static sites these days and they crit all holes connecting to their static with luxury yachts (yes, luxury yachts with an oversized propmod and a cloak), and then they deploy the marauders and ventures.
nobody is going to invest the time into w-space that they currently do when the chance of finding something good becomes even lower than it already is. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
107
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Posted - 2015.09.19 02:51:31 -
[32] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:It's an idealistic article.
It's a true one but an idealistic one.
There comes a point in all games where everybody becomes rich. Eve has hit that.
A billion isk doesn't mean anything anymore.
Make eve harder. Maybe.
You must want to play this game alone. Plex cost 1.3 bill isk.............
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
107
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Posted - 2015.09.19 04:49:58 -
[33] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Winthorp wrote: Onto escalations as i have said in the trweetfleet wormholes slack channel, i believe we are about to get a WH escalations nerf. Day 1 of the summit minutes discusses WH PVE and then NDA's the discussion. Combine this with our current WH CSM that wants to nerf home WH escalation and encourage more actual group site farming with escalations based on ships other then capitals. (I hove spoken with Corbexx about this in the past and i really support a WH escalation nerf even though i am one of the bads abusing said mechanic).
His previous ideas i believe would encourage people to be in a lot of different ships out and about in more unsafe chains. What could anyone not like about that. Whether his ideas would ever line up with CCP's ideas on to how to solve this i would reserve judgement lol.
pretty much this. alot has been NDA'd out. I think a fair few would agree cap escalations are used for printing isk, but you know what its in the rules and I don't blame anyone for milking them for all there worth. I sure have. I still don't think they are good for w space, though and want them changed.
And replaced with what? What other ships besides Caps can do C5/C6s reliably?
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
107
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Posted - 2015.09.19 05:05:15 -
[34] - Quote
When I was on the CSM, I basically said just that. Nullsec PvE should be group based, just like wormhole PvE used to be. You have to be in a group to take space in nullsec, why should you be able to make isk solo (and mostly risk free)?
Winthorp wrote:The whole article reaks of someone who just became bored with the game and too bitter to have a go at something different.
The article pretty much has no substance at all to any of his arguments that it just comes off like a crying teenager that just got dumped by their boyfriend and can't look at another boy at the mall.
Seriously keep playing Ark Two Step and don't come back.
I have done just about all there is to do in EVE, from highsec industry to nullsec. The whole article is about that the issue is not "I need something to do" but that when I do stuff to other people, they should care. That is what sets EVE apart from other games, and it is getting watered down every day.
Also, wtf is Ark?
Also, I love how your next post is basically agreeing with everything I said. I have no problem with capital escalations that take 10 or 15 people and some time to complete, so people have a chance to jump those people.
Mike Voidstar wrote:This quote says it all about the author's grasp of reality: Quote: It needs more poor players who are desperate for their next paycheck, Those guys don't: Quote:who can be bribed to change sides. It needs more times where you swear at your PC, throw your headset down in disgust and swear to quit the game for good this time, only to come back the next day more determined than ever to get your revenge. Those guys just leave, because a dystopian society makes for a great thing to read about, not to live through.
Group this, group that, everything in this game is group, group, and more grouping. THe lack of solo play is what will kill eve because not everyone can play at the same time all the time due to RL situations and work.
Withrop is right, you should go back to Ark (whatever that is). |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
2741
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Posted - 2015.09.19 08:25:02 -
[35] - Quote
KIAGumpy wrote: Have you actually sat in an incursion fleet for a few hours and enjoyed it?
No. unpossible.
Virginal neckbeard aspies wheezing at you because your drones aren't spendy enough and you didn't get enough wrecking shots.
I agree with Two Step insofar as the amount of ISK in the game and the ease with which the means of production can be co-opted, rented out and optimised and organised is a little stupid. There's something to be said for re-evaluating the whole economy of EVE to put incentives in the system to prevent blue donuts (in and out of W-space).
But at the end of the day, doing it right now, is probably a risk. Screw the economy up and people will leave.
if anything, ISk rewards need to be flatter between peak players and noobs, to allow the noobs to accumulate ISk significantly faster. ISK generating activities need to be less able to be funnelled into corporate structures and corporate coffers and the control of the heirarchy of old players, so that these old, rich bastards need to fight each other versus just come down to agreements and donuts.
Mostly, this does involve trashing the moon goo system, and trashing Incursions, and trashing escalations, because goo goes to the existing entities, which enforces the status quo. incursions go to insufferable neckbeards and FCs who run a small closed circle of bequeathmentand require ridiculous fits to engage in. Finally, escalation ISK allows people to run solo bear holes with impunity, which basically has fractured w-space into isolated ISk-printing factories where no one interacts or has need to interact except to do a monthly fuel run. This ISk then goes to fund Nullsec, Lowsec or other game activities.
But do we need everyone to be impoverished slumlords? no. Part of the joy of wealth in EVE i flying spendy ships or varied doctrines and not worrying overmch whether you can afford to fly what you are possibly going to lose.
This is the problem with Two Step's line of reasoning. He thinks that a hand-to-mouth existence will reduce the massive bearing that goes on. That somehow if everyone can only afford a Drake a week, they'll be more happy to play Drakes online than flying T3's everywhere and helicoptering Swaglfars about the joint with impunity.
I doubt it. Making everyone a poor bastard who cannot collect their toys, be a completionist, a hoarder or just fly whatever, whenever - thereby forcing them to bear longer toachieve the same goals - will turn people off. Oddly, Two Step says that the push for everything to be small ships and small gang is wrong, but his way would see the same effect via a different mechanism.
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
202
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Posted - 2015.09.19 19:52:57 -
[36] - Quote
While i agree that cap escalations in its current for are a problem and that incursians need to DIAF and moon goo needs to be axed, i think you guys forget some things. Cap escalations used to be not such a big problem when there were more hunters around when the instant sig spawn didn't exist. Now with the instant sig spawn cap escalations are not that big a risk. So increasing the risk should be a thing.
idea: Maybe every sleeper has a special capital warp disruptor thingy that makes it necesairy to finish the site when using caps. That way you need to finish the site when using caps. You still get more then when not using caps, but lose the site after that.
While doing more in the static is good(the more ships in space the bether), a cap should still be able to be an advantage in a pve-site because there is so few uses for them anyway. We can use them as repping platform-killing other caps, for pos/citadel bashes and for doing pve sites. The more we get these puppys in space them more we can go out and shoot them. While pos/citadel bashes is a large portion of wh capital gameplay, it is usualy not a day to day thing. Doing pve-sites with a cap should be though.
Also keep in mind the risk/isk ballance currently that is out of wack. Null sec is the easiest way to earn isk these days, then incursions then wh capital escalations. If they are nerf the isk they generate/sink should be redistributed to the other isk sink/fossets(or new ones) while following the isk/risk balance .
Also making everyone a poor bastard is not a good idea because it will drive out even more plex-players then what already is the case now.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
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O'nira
Litla Sundlaugin
72
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Posted - 2015.09.19 23:38:19 -
[37] - Quote
escalations definitely need changing, of course you could just bring back the API thing that showed when pve was done in the system instead. |
Freddie Merrcury
Jaded.
140
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Posted - 2015.09.20 00:34:55 -
[38] - Quote
CLASS 7 WURMHOLE WHEN?
I been kicked out of better homes than this.
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4676
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Posted - 2015.09.20 03:22:25 -
[39] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:And replaced with what? What other ships besides Caps can do C5/C6s reliably? Back in the day C6s were run by Guardian supported T3 fleets and it worked just fine. You can also take a carrier and 6 BSs into the static to run sites. Now you could also easily run then in Marauders.
C5s can be done in RR BSs or better.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1372
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Posted - 2015.09.20 04:41:41 -
[40] - Quote
I don't think the answer is nerfing cap escallations, I think the answer is buffing the sleepless guardians. Not more blue loot and not more salvage. Give them a speed boost/smaller sig radius and give them a much larger spawn pattern. I'll say it again (and again if I have to) - forcing pve into the static isn't going to create instant and lasting content. In 5 days there will be a guide on how to do the new sites w/ optimal safety including optimal ships and optimal fittings. Come on guys - it's what we do with everything in this game.
I truely believe 1 wh can (and should) only support so many folks before there just isn't enough isk. Moving easy isk (that would be the completion can that gets brought up time and again) to the static would just allow more folks to feed out of the same wh. There will be a brief period where it will be great, then corp sizes will stabalize at a larger size and we'll have the same problem. I also truely believe that folks won't become suddenly stupid and open themselves up to easy pickings in their static. Risk averse farmers will marauder into the static, run the data/relic sights, roll and repeat. It won't be the pvp fest you're looking for. They see danger they'll warp safe, cloak and wait you out, or just log and scan out later.
I think keeping fleets in a site longer and redesigning the site so a sub cap fleet is needed is the way to go. The problem w/ escallations right now is that I can dual box 2 dreads and blap the esc BS as they claw their way out to range and I can play minesweeper on my other computer while doing it. There are a lot of ways to fix that. Smaller sig radius is an obvious first choice. Larger spaw pattern would elliminate the crawling away to optimal slaughter. Give each site 6 possible escallation spawn sites and pick each escallation spawn at random when the cap lands. There are a lot of simple things you can do to take escallation isk out of automatic.
Ideas:
1. Random spawn points for escallation spawns 2. Lower sig radius for sleepless guardians (much lower) 3. Give sleepless guardians some resistance to webs/painter effects (there are mission npcs that are immune to webs) 4. Give sleepless guardians MJD so you have to scram the bastards to hold them down.
TL/DR - The problem is that capital escallations are too easy, not that capital escallations exist in your home system. Keep the payout - just make it the team sport it was supposed to be. |
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Kalel Nimrott
The Dingus Coalition
1213
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Posted - 2015.09.20 07:50:59 -
[41] - Quote
The problem with eve is that everyone is rich and everyone can't be rich cause plex prices. Solution, some of you will have to be poor and some of us rich. Anyone likes that?
Bob Artis, you will be missed.
O7
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Winthorp
3697
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Posted - 2015.09.20 07:53:15 -
[42] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:The problem with eve is that everyone is rich and everyone can't be rich cause plex prices. Solution, some of you will have to be poor and some of us rich. Anyone likes that?
I like being rich, you used to be poor Kalel. I hope this is still so.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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NoobMan
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
191
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Posted - 2015.09.20 09:34:27 -
[43] - Quote
I haven't read most of the replies, I glanced over the Two Step article.
What I can tell you and some of you won't understand is this, if there is still ISK to be made and it is still around the current lucrative levels, then people that are currently reaping the benefits and have been, will figure out a way to keep making that same level of ISK.
A cookie cutter method will be invented and pilots/account will be re-specialized to support the isk making. Right now people are multiboxing 2-8 accounts with ease for a single person or a small team and are making lucrative isk per hour. Next thing you know in 2-3 months after the "apocalyptic nerf" to WH pve people are going to rant about nothing has changed.
Now if the ISK is nerfed into the ground down to Level 5 missions or null sec ratting or incursions the amount of people that are going to leave w-space will be ridiculous. You all might think they are the cancer that is kill w-space but unmistakably they are the targets and the content that you hunt and hope your hole rolls into.
The pilots that love hunting and killing capitals are going to leave, all your going to have left are the wormhole purist and hipsters residing in high class wh's.
Can I agree that capital escalations should be changed? Yes.
Am I asking for it? No because I'm loving the 75-125 bil a month I've been pulling in for the last year it feels like.
Do I think CCP will change escalations in the next 6 months? Maybe but I really don't think so. They have bigger fish to fry. Only thing that has been announced is the capital rebalance. If dreads get reworked and they change something so that dreads are terrible at pve, that will affect it.
There are other alternate methods of killing the guardians that are just as multibox-able as caps: Stealth Bombers launching bombs in Red giants Large smartbombing fleets in Red giants FOF ravens at 300km
TL;DR It is going to take a massive amount of game design to nerf every single way to run cap escalations. If they remove the mechanic and do not replace it with some other system, in my opinion high class population will drop considerably. Until then me and everyone else that runs escalations on a consistent basis is stockpiling ISK to survive after the nerf.
Eve is a sandbox with a hyper-capitalistic economy the hardcore and the people with too many account and too much time will figure out how to sustain themselves.
Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
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Candi LeMew
Isogen 5
37460
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Posted - 2015.09.20 11:10:12 -
[44] - Quote
This thread.
n-â fruít-¦-âwl lík-ö h-âm-ö =ƒìî
Remember... in Anoikis Bob Is Always Watching...
"I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James
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Winthorp
3700
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Posted - 2015.09.20 11:26:39 -
[45] - Quote
NoobMan wrote:I haven't read most of the replies, I glanced over the Two Step article.
What I can tell you and some of you won't understand is this, if there is still ISK to be made and it is still around the current lucrative levels, then people that are currently reaping the benefits and have been, will figure out a way to keep making that same level of ISK.
A cookie cutter method will be invented and pilots/account will be re-specialized to support the isk making. Right now people are multiboxing 2-8 accounts with ease for a single person or a small team and are making lucrative isk per hour. Next thing you know in 2-3 months after the "apocalyptic nerf" to WH pve people are going to rant about nothing has changed.
Now if the ISK is nerfed into the ground down to Level 5 missions or null sec ratting or incursions the amount of people that are going to leave w-space will be ridiculous. You all might think they are the cancer that is kill w-space but unmistakably they are the targets and the content that you hunt and hope your hole rolls into.
The pilots that love hunting and killing capitals are going to leave, all your going to have left are the wormhole purist and hipsters residing in high class wh's.
Can I agree that capital escalations should be changed? Yes.
Am I asking for it? No because I'm loving the 75-125 bil a month I've been pulling in for the last year it feels like.
Do I think CCP will change escalations in the next 6 months? Maybe but I really don't think so. They have bigger fish to fry. Only thing that has been announced is the capital rebalance. If dreads get reworked and they change something so that dreads are terrible at pve, that will affect it.
There are other alternate methods of killing the guardians that are just as multibox-able as caps: Stealth Bombers launching bombs in Red giants Large smartbombing fleets in Red giants FOF ravens at 300km
TL;DR It is going to take a massive amount of game design to nerf every single way to run cap escalations. If they remove the mechanic and do not replace it with some other system, in my opinion high class population will drop considerably. Until then me and everyone else that runs escalations on a consistent basis is stockpiling ISK to survive after the nerf.
Eve is a sandbox with a hyper-capitalistic economy the hardcore and the people with too many account and too much time will figure out how to sustain themselves.
I think we are very far apart on how we think an escalation nerf would play out. Also 75-125bil a month, **** me i need to get better at this Krabbing or steal Josh's Magnetar.
So I don't have anything against people making mad ISK and more ISK then other parts of EVE. I want people to make mad ISK so they will throw bling T3's around in fights. I do have an issue with the fact that escalations are now for the most part a solo activity done off in another hole with a lot "more" safety then was had in the past. Combining solo quad escalations with the CCP nerfs that have made hunting these people much harder and far more random then you have the slower pace of things in WH space that it is today (Not saying eve is dying RIP).
There is always going to be people that "game" the system to maximise efficiency at making ISK weather this is nerfed or not. But you say these people will all leave WH space in droves but tbh they already have (I know farmers are still content and all that bruhahah, but really they are not when their chain is closed off and they are just relying on luck of the dice of someone rolling in). The people that hunt capitals will stay because they will have more targets floating around WH space in general, they will find the other large groups in chains more often as chains won't be crit as often.
I have been in a few large WH space groups now and cap escalations are always the source of much drama, even with the best of intentions it makes nerds angry. Some of the issues are inequity in rewards for the risk from player to player. To other players not wanting to pve being forced into either helping or waiting around while they run sites because the chain has been closed for safety or to the extreme of that player wanting to explore simply logging off. Then there are other groups where a good deal of their members are afk because they are off doing something in their alt jew WH's.
I don't pretend for a second i have the perfect answer for this but i can't just say i think things are ok currently. I have read several ideas that would be really good and i would hope when lining those ideas up with CCP's goals that they would find some common ground on those ideas and come up with a really nice system to deal with this.
My hope for a nerf would be that small groups of players would be able to make some nice ISk running C5 sites solo and even more ISK when they invite some mates along to the fun. I would like capital ships to still have a place in Wh escalations for those those that chose to use them but i would also like to see options so that people will not feel so much risk that they feel the need to crush all the connections. My hope would be that this would allow others in those corps/Alliances that didn't want to partake to be able to still be out and exploring, roaming or lurking on hostiles.
All i want really is a lot more opportunities for player interactions in WH space, i know we disagree on all the options we have available to do this but this is where we are, i am also waiting for the well why don't you logoff trap and hunt all these solo farmers comments.... But CCP has also helped those farmers even more by removing NPC data to the point that hunting these people is even more tiresome. (**** look at BU/QEX, went from logoff trapping farmers to evicting a lot of C6 space to just rent it out to them).
More below.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
101
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Posted - 2015.09.20 11:27:00 -
[46] - Quote
NoobMan wrote: Stealth Bombers launching bombs in Red giants
Why this has not been fixed yet is a really good question. Unless our csm/s believe it is not broken to fully escalate sites, and run them with 2 toons per wh. And all those toons need to do, is be able to board carrier & dread and the ability to fly a bomber with a bomb launcher. Atm every second c6/c5 RG is occupied with bomber farmers, where experienced crabs run a site with 2 bombers in ~15-20min. That is the same site running speed as a solo moros in a non-effect wh.
Make sleepers immune to bombs, as the simplicity of bomber farming is beyond broken at this point. (the fact that wingspan mungos don't/haven't done it yet amuses me)
~lvl 60 paladin~
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Winthorp
3700
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Posted - 2015.09.20 11:27:32 -
[47] - Quote
Then go onto looking at your group and the other few groups that have taken over every C5/6 Magnetars to maximise the efficiency of solo escalations. This is now fact that any up and and coming WH PVP group cannot have a Magnetar as an option of being their home system. Everyone knows who owns the system and knows that simply taking them is not feasible like it was before.
I hope new structures help with this but i would just love Wh space to be what it was when i was first playing in them, people would find other groups in the chain all the time and skirmishes and large battles would be the norm. People back then would roam a bit of LS and null sec for a touch of variety and spice, but now it is forced as a the day to day activity just to have something to do. I want to be able to have content in WH space again, no not all of it WH space but look at your own site for WH statistics to note how much of a % of every groups kills are no longer in Wh space (maybe with the exception of this month #Novaburns)
When i say i hope new structures help with this it is also a scary thing that because of changes CCP has made in the last year to make WH space more PVE orientated we now crave new mechanics like structures and escalation nerfs to shake the tree.
I am not Two Step level of bitter about this, my theory is can't beat them join them. Untill **** gets all nerfed up in here.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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KIAGumpy
Free Throbbing Veinal Penii For Spacmens Dead Terrorists
10
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Posted - 2015.09.20 11:37:38 -
[48] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:Then go onto looking at your group and the other few groups that have taken over every C5/6 Magnetars to maximise the efficiency of solo escalations. This is now fact that any up and and coming WH PVP group cannot have a Magnetar as an option of being their home system. Everyone knows who owns the system and knows that simply taking them is not feasible like it was before.
I hope new structures help with this but i would just love Wh space to be what it was when i was first playing in them, people would find other groups in the chain all the time and skirmishes and large battles would be the norm. People back then would roam a bit of LS and null sec for a touch of variety and spice, but now it is forced as a the day to day activity just to have something to do. I want to be able to have content in WH space again, no not all of it WH space but look at your own site for WH statistics to note how much of a % of every groups kills are no longer in Wh space (maybe with the exception of this month #Novaburns)
When i say i hope new structures help with this it is also a scary thing that because of changes CCP has made in the last year to make WH space more PVE orientated we now crave new mechanics like structures and escalation nerfs to shake the tree.
I am not Two Step level of bitter about this, my theory is can't beat them join them. Untill **** gets all nerfed up in here.
PVP groups don't live in Mags
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Winthorp
3700
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Posted - 2015.09.20 11:41:15 -
[49] - Quote
KIAGumpy wrote:
PVP groups don't live in Mags
Sigh....
Plenty have and i am sure plenty would love to again.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4676
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Posted - 2015.09.20 11:54:53 -
[50] - Quote
KIAGumpy wrote:PVP groups don't live in Mags While this is currently true, it is the stupidest sentence ever written on these forums.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
526
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Posted - 2015.09.20 11:57:19 -
[51] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:Then go onto looking at your group and the other few groups that have taken over every C5/6 Magnetars to maximise the efficiency of solo escalations. This is now fact that any up and and coming WH PVP group cannot have a Magnetar as an option of being their home system. Everyone knows who owns the system and knows that simply taking them is not feasible like it was before.
winny please let me tell you a story
a senior hk member owned a 5-5 mag farm hole about 6 months ago. some people called whatever dot came along and evicted him because they wanted the hole for their newly formed alliance. the alliance is question is here for those not familiar - http://evewho.com/alli/Whatever.
the hk member sold all his caps and the stuff in his tower to this party who evicted him and didn't put up a fight or anything. they took the c5 mag with 0 resistance. we were happy to let a pvp alliance take a c5 mag - we have lots. they actually told him that they had watched him run sites for months while they prepared the eviction, but not once did they actually try and kill him while running them.
6 months down the line and that alliance is dead. most people have no idea who they even were. coincidentally enough i was actually talking to one of their ex-leadership in a channel the other day:
n++[ 2015.09.17 17:17:12 ] Braxus Deninard > thebringer what happened to whatever. n++[ 2015.09.17 17:17:24 ] thebringer > floped n++[ 2015.09.17 17:18:27 ] thebringer > activity was very low, no one had enough motivation to go and do anything n++[ 2015.09.17 17:18:35 ] Braxus Deninard > rip yeah thats what it seemed like from the outside n++[ 2015.09.17 17:19:40 ] Braxus Deninard > was never really sure why whatever chose a magnetar n++[ 2015.09.17 17:20:03 ] thebringer > was the cap site speed n++[ 2015.09.17 17:20:26 ] thebringer > could do 10 sites in 1.5hrs with a good crew
the problem right there. so many people just don't have any motivation or effort to go out and hunt (which is part of the reason behind cap escalating being relatively safe at the moment) and they took the mag over a no effect so that they could do lots of sites, and there's nothing wrong with that when it's funding a pvp corp but they weren't ever active as a pvp corp either because they just didn't put the effort in. |
Winthorp
3701
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Posted - 2015.09.20 12:12:20 -
[52] - Quote
Braxus Deninard wrote:Winthorp wrote:Then go onto looking at your group and the other few groups that have taken over every C5/6 Magnetars to maximise the efficiency of solo escalations. This is now fact that any up and and coming WH PVP group cannot have a Magnetar as an option of being their home system. Everyone knows who owns the system and knows that simply taking them is not feasible like it was before. winny please let me tell you a story a senior hk member owned a 5-5 mag farm hole about 6 months ago. some people called whatever dot came along and evicted him because they wanted the hole for their newly formed alliance. the alliance is question is here for those not familiar - http://evewho.com/alli/Whatever. the hk member sold all his caps and the stuff in his tower to this party who evicted him and didn't put up a fight or anything. they took the c5 mag with 0 resistance. we were happy to let a pvp alliance take a c5 mag - we have lots. they actually told him that they had watched him run sites for months while they prepared the eviction, but not once did they actually try and kill him while running them. 6 months down the line and that alliance is dead. most people have no idea who they even were. coincidentally enough i was actually talking to one of their ex-leadership in a channel the other day: n++[ 2015.09.17 17:17:12 ] Braxus Deninard > thebringer what happened to whatever. n++[ 2015.09.17 17:17:24 ] thebringer > floped n++[ 2015.09.17 17:18:27 ] thebringer > activity was very low, no one had enough motivation to go and do anything n++[ 2015.09.17 17:18:35 ] Braxus Deninard > rip yeah thats what it seemed like from the outside n++[ 2015.09.17 17:19:40 ] Braxus Deninard > was never really sure why whatever chose a magnetar n++[ 2015.09.17 17:20:03 ] thebringer > was the cap site speed n++[ 2015.09.17 17:20:26 ] thebringer > could do 10 sites in 1.5hrs with a good crew the problem right there. so many people just don't have any motivation or effort to go out and hunt (which is part of the reason behind cap escalating being relatively safe at the moment) and they took the mag over a no effect so that they could do lots of sites, and there's nothing wrong with that when it's funding a pvp corp but they weren't ever active as a pvp corp either because they just didn't put the effort in.
So that group was so scared of the actual owners it took them 6 months to Attack the WH, they were doomed to failure before they even took it then and the flavor of the Wh has nothing to do with it. If this HK director wanted to keep that WH we all know what the outcome would have been at that point.
So your telling me any small group that PVP's can just hit you or noob up ingame to pick their C5 mag?
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Braxus Deninard
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
526
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Posted - 2015.09.20 12:34:30 -
[53] - Quote
Winthorp wrote: So that group was so scared of the actual owners it took them 6 months to Attack the WH, they were doomed to failure before they even took it then and the flavor of the Wh has nothing to do with it. If this HK director wanted to keep that WH we all know what the outcome would have been at that point.
So your telling me any small group that PVP's can just hit you or noob up ingame to pick their C5 mag?
EDIT: My original post wasn't all about The C5 mag situation or the C6 renting though, that is just the result of human nature that CCP has laid the groundwork for with many changes over the last year or so.
i dont think they were too scared to attack the guy doing sites - i think they were too terrible to do it. but thats not important, obviously we aren't going to go and hand out c5/c6 mags, theyre high profile holes and it's just like owning an r64 in null - if you want it, you should take it. my example of whatever. is a clear example of an up and coming pvp group being able to do just that with no retaliation from me, it's just a shame that the group collapsed under its own weight.
i guess the point im trying to make is you said up and coming groups cant take c5/c6 mags - im saying if they pick their target correctly they can. |
Kalel Nimrott
The Dingus Coalition
1214
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Posted - 2015.09.20 12:53:12 -
[54] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:Kalel Nimrott wrote:The problem with eve is that everyone is rich and everyone can't be rich cause plex prices. Solution, some of you will have to be poor and some of us rich. Anyone likes that? I like being rich, you used to be poor Kalel. I hope this is still so.
Sorry, tonshits of iskk in null. Two months, = 4 months in wspace for me.
Bob Artis, you will be missed.
O7
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unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
203
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Posted - 2015.09.20 13:29:54 -
[55] - Quote
Seems to me that every one is in agreement that capital escalations are to safe. There is almost no risk of getting hunted like it used to be before. That is the big problem.
Personaly i blame the instant sig spawn that wipped out rolling for pew. Scanning the chain make the timing even worse.
No local in null sec would fix everything!
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KC Kamikaze
Black Dragon Elite Great Blue Balls of Fire
125
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Posted - 2015.09.20 17:55:37 -
[56] - Quote
I don't think capital escalations are broken in how much isk they bring in. I think the problem is the amount of effort it takes to do anything in wspace. In small corps it forces you to make a choice between looking (most of the time unsuccessfully especially if you are bad) for a fight, or closing your holes and printing isk.
This is why we have several stupid large corps in wspace and their vast krab hole farming operations. Out of that 300+ member corp you've got about 20 guys online in your pvp hole rolling and scanning at best and the rest are out krabbing on alts or afk just waiting for a "carrier tackled" ping.
The isk or the way it's gained isn't the problem. It's the mechanics of wormhole space that have produced this meta where you pvp in a big corp and farm a hole with your little alt corp and maybe a few friends because to do both in one corp in one hole is too much work.
This is my observation. I'm not really keen on thinking of clever ways to fix it. Change the mechanics of solo escalations to make it not possible and and the same time make it so you can't run cap escalations with bombers and other **** meta like that. I would not adjust the isk. it's too much isk for the solo farmer to get .. sure ... but they share the same isk pool with actual corps and you should not make them (actual corps) suffer.
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Kalel Nimrott
The Dingus Coalition
1214
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Posted - 2015.09.20 19:50:44 -
[57] - Quote
It's so easy the solution, that it is actually stupid. You could fix it all by tweeking the spawn rates of the sites. Or adding a delay of hours to the respawning.
Bob Artis, you will be missed.
O7
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FT123
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.09.20 20:22:09 -
[58] - Quote
NS = stupid anom isk HS = stupid incursion isk WH = stupid cap escalation isk
2 of the 3 require a group. 1 of the 3 exposes caps. NS anoms are so easy, and have have no risk with local chat. HS incursions I am not even going to try and justify.
If you nerf WH isk into the ground, there would literally be no reason to stay. I guess we could all move to Thera and hold hands...
Or we could all by machs are start doing L4s and then quit the game due to boredom. |
Kalel Nimrott
The Dingus Coalition
1215
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Posted - 2015.09.20 22:03:43 -
[59] - Quote
5 bill a month with a well fitted mach (no blings). Risk free.
Bob Artis, you will be missed.
O7
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1376
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Posted - 2015.09.20 23:42:23 -
[60] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:NoobMan wrote: Stealth Bombers launching bombs in Red giants
Why this has not been fixed yet is a really good question. Unless our csm/s believe it is not broken to fully escalate sites, and run them with 2 toons per wh. And all those toons need to do, is be able to board carrier & dread and the ability to fly a bomber with a bomb launcher. Atm every second c6/c5 RG is occupied with bomber farmers, where experienced crabs run a site with 2 bombers in ~15-20min. That is the same site running speed as a solo moros in a non-effect wh. Make sleepers immune to bombs, as the simplicity of bomber farming is beyond broken at this point. (the fact that wingspan mungos don't/haven't done it yet amuses me)
This would be simple to fix. Random spawn points for sleepless guardians and make them spawn at optimal (30ish km). Smartbombing and bomberbombing become useless. I'm not for just screwing over a groups method of pve, but if the community and CCP all agree that this pve method is broken, then that's the easy fix.
Those 2 simple things would go a long way to taking escallation farming out of auto matic. Add in web / painter immunity for the esc BS and you just took farming from 10 mins / site (assuming small farming group running 2 dreads in 2 siege cycles) to something much longer.
I don't think it's all that difficult to make c5/c6 escallations what they were supposed to be (at least closer), I just don't see a lot of folks getting behind the idea of making 'thier pve' more difficult.
That's the rub. We all want some things to change, but when we step up to the edge and know it's going to hurt our own bottom line, then a lot of us take a step back and remain silent. It's human nature.
I think pure farmers should hate my ideas because it will put a big dent in their bottom line and the pvp crowd to get behind it. The problem - we have pure farmers, but we don't have pure pvp guys (cuz we all need to make isk). |
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