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Forum Toon
State War Academy Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2015.09.19 02:41:32 -
[1] - Quote
RLML, medium drones (T2 with the extra skill), passive shielding (using T2 rigs and maybe those guristas modules they are only 15 mill each).
works for L4s? maybe upgrade to heavy missile launcher?
thoughts? |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
107
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Posted - 2015.09.19 02:48:04 -
[2] - Quote
Forum Toon wrote:RLML, medium drones (T2 with the extra skill), passive shielding (using T2 rigs and maybe those guristas modules they are only 15 mill each).
works for L4s? maybe upgrade to heavy missile launcher?
thoughts?
You can but it'll take you forever because you're only doing 550-580 dps. Best to use the Rattler. |
Forum Toon
State War Academy Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2015.09.19 03:42:14 -
[3] - Quote
Actually meant to use gila until I can fly ratller.
Eft tests of all V profile and t2 weapons shows around 800-900 dps... So i thought at least it`ll be doable with decent skills. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4646
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Posted - 2015.09.19 04:31:46 -
[4] - Quote
Forum Toon wrote:Eft tests of all V profile and t2 weapons shows around 800-900 dps... So i thought at least it`ll be doable with decent skills. That's on paper. Factor in travel time and it will end up being a lot less... Go with the suggestion above: Rattlesnake.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
612
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Posted - 2015.09.19 04:49:49 -
[5] - Quote
It might feel like you're running slower with that subconscious thought of "under 1000 dps...yuck," mentality; but, as stated, you'll have generally better align time, more mobility, and better grid-to-grid transit due to higher warp speed/accel/decel to make up for it. Longer running missions may suffer on completion time though, like Blockade or Enemies Abound 5 of 5. Missions like Angles Extrav and others that are either short or have a lot of traveling -- especially when your agents like to send you a ways often -- will take much less time because you'll be able to fully utilize the "cruiser's advantage" here.
A Rattler will do the same thing for more dps but less mobility in those regards. Both are good, though personally I'd stick to the Rattler out of the two.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1724
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Posted - 2015.09.19 04:53:46 -
[6] - Quote
it will work, just boring and inefficient.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
107
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Posted - 2015.09.19 05:35:47 -
[7] - Quote
Forum Toon wrote:Actually meant to use gila until I can fly ratller.
Eft tests of all V profile and t2 weapons shows around 800-900 dps... So i thought at least it`ll be doable with decent skills.
What SP and skills are we talkin? |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4647
|
Posted - 2015.09.19 06:44:01 -
[8] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:A Rattler will do the same thing for more dps but less mobility in those regards. Both are good, though personally I'd stick to the Rattler out of the two. There's not necessarily a huge difference in mobility as you have a lot more slots on the Rattlesnake to play around with to both boost DPS and compensate for inertia, velocity and warp speed.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Garrett Osinov
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2015.09.19 06:53:48 -
[9] - Quote
I did lvl 4 in a Gila, excellent ship. Fit was: Low: 4 drone damage amp Mid: corelum AB, 2 cn large shield extenders, 2-3 gardeners, drone navigation comp Rigs t2 shield purger rigs.
Does with augmented hammerheads almost 900dps, fast warp speed. For most missions better then Rattlesnake, because agility and fast warp. Decline missions like extravaganza, vengeance, because they take a lot of time to complete. |
The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden Haven.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.19 09:49:19 -
[10] - Quote
Garrett Osinov wrote:I did lvl 4 in a Gila, excellent ship. Fit was: Low: 4 drone damage amp Mid: corelum AB, 2 cn large shield extenders, 2-3 gardeners, drone navigation comp Rigs t2 shield purger rigs.
Does with augmented hammerheads almost 900dps, fast warp speed. For most missions better then Rattlesnake, because agility and fast warp. Decline missions like extravaganza, vengeance, because they take a lot of time to complete.
Where do you get gardeners from? Are they "cattle" like the exotic dancers? And what bonus do they give? |
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Garrett Osinov
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2015.09.19 10:49:47 -
[11] - Quote
The Bigpuns wrote:Garrett Osinov wrote:I did lvl 4 in a Gila, excellent ship. Fit was: Low: 4 drone damage amp Mid: corelum AB, 2 cn large shield extenders, 2-3 gardeners, drone navigation comp Rigs t2 shield purger rigs.
Does with augmented hammerheads almost 900dps, fast warp speed. For most missions better then Rattlesnake, because agility and fast warp. Decline missions like extravaganza, vengeance, because they take a lot of time to complete. Where do you get gardeners from? Are they "cattle" like the exotic dancers? And what bonus do they give?
Lol hardeners of course...
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The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden Haven.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.19 11:53:43 -
[12] - Quote
Garrett Osinov wrote:The Bigpuns wrote:Garrett Osinov wrote:I did lvl 4 in a Gila, excellent ship. Fit was: Low: 4 drone damage amp Mid: corelum AB, 2 cn large shield extenders, 2-3 gardeners, drone navigation comp Rigs t2 shield purger rigs.
Does with augmented hammerheads almost 900dps, fast warp speed. For most missions better then Rattlesnake, because agility and fast warp. Decline missions like extravaganza, vengeance, because they take a lot of time to complete. Where do you get gardeners from? Are they "cattle" like the exotic dancers? And what bonus do they give? Lol hardeners of course...
Awww, I want to strap gardeners to my ship. A shrubbery! |
Kitty Bear
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
1527
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Posted - 2015.09.19 13:28:14 -
[13] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Forum Toon wrote:RLML, medium drones (T2 with the extra skill), passive shielding (using T2 rigs and maybe those guristas modules they are only 15 mill each).
works for L4s? maybe upgrade to heavy missile launcher?
thoughts? You can but it'll take you forever because you're only doing 550-580 dps. Best to use the Rattler.
~750 dps
H- 4x RLML
M- 3x LSE M- 2x Hardener M- 10mn AB
L- 3x DDA L- Shield Power Relay
R- 3x Purgers
Missiles do ~155 dps @ 30km Drones do ~600 dps @ 60km
With mission specific hardeners your looking at ~30k ehp that will sustain up to ~450 dps Ship is very mobile and runs at ~666 m/s |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
596
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Posted - 2015.09.19 14:12:07 -
[14] - Quote
If I remember my noob days right, t1 bs with t2 gear but low-medium skills does about 450-550 dps.
My Gila with t2 gear and high skills does more dps than that, I want to say 600-750 dps.
I also have Rattlesnake, it works, but I don't think it is any better than my fof navy raven, pretty boring overall.
In conclusion. Gila definitely does L4. It is more engaging to fly. If you have to travel 2-3 jumps to a mission, it will get you there faster. You will want to upgrade to bs at some point, but until you get there the gila will work.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy
Eat dessert first!
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
528
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Posted - 2015.09.19 15:21:46 -
[15] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote: Drones do ~600 dps @ 60km
And how long do you have to wait for the drones to close this range? My math suggests it would be roughly 21 seconds for an all drones skills 5 pilot with no implants, rigs or modules that could affect speed. So when you add the travel time to the time required for them to chew through a target your effective DPS is significantly lower. And we have not even begun to talk about the potential that your drones are taking damage the entire time they are in transit.
But this all comes back to what you the OP wants from a mission ship. If you want to fly a GIla then nothing anyone can put into this discussion will make any difference.
But you did ask for thoughts and opinions. The Gila is capable but slow to complete missions and is susceptible to destruction should you get webbed and not be able to eliminate the webbers quickly enough. The Ishtar is also a capable level 4 ships and in many ways it's ability to use sentry drones and the fact that it bonuses all sizes of drones make it a better ship than the Gila. Again subject to destruction if webbed. The Domi and Navy Domi as well as the Rattle are excellent level 4 ships as well and their advantages, better DPS, more flexible drones load outs and superior tank can and often do allow them to complete mission faster than is possible with the Gila. |
Forum Toon
State War Academy Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2015.09.19 15:26:49 -
[16] - Quote
no argue from me it will not be optimal but if I can do L4s in gila while I train for Rattler (battleship \ heavy drones etc...) then heck why not... just wanted to be sure I won't sit there for hours or get pop'd with alpha damage from the rats. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4648
|
Posted - 2015.09.19 23:07:41 -
[17] - Quote
Forum Toon wrote:no argue from me it will not be optimal but if I can do L4s in gila while I train for Rattler (battleship \ heavy drones etc...) then heck why not... just wanted to be sure I won't sit there for hours or get pop'd with alpha damage from the rats. Forget heavy drones - go for a combination of sentries and rapid heavy launchers.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Kitty Bear
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
1527
|
Posted - 2015.09.20 00:36:44 -
[18] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Kitty Bear wrote: Drones do ~600 dps @ 60km
And how long do you have to wait for the drones to close this range? My math suggests it would be roughly 21 seconds for an all drones skills 5 pilot with no implants, rigs or modules that could affect speed. So when you add the travel time to the time required for them to chew through a target your effective DPS is significantly lower. And we have not even begun to talk about the potential that your drones are taking damage the entire time they are in transit.
Max speed depends on drone type.
Hammerheads are the slowest at 2520 m/s = 23.8s of flight time for 60 km Valkyries are the fastest at 3750 m/s = 16s of flight time for 60 km
However it extremely unlikely that each target is 60km from the next one, In most missions targets are clustered in groups, typically at most 3 groups. This reduces the impact of travel time and makes it much less of an issue than you imply it to be.
As for drones taking damage whilst launched. That only happens with someone who doesn't understand drone mechanics launching them 'willy nilly' and doing nothing to manage threats and aggro. |
Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space No Points Necessary
884
|
Posted - 2015.09.20 08:16:33 -
[19] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Kitty Bear wrote: Drones do ~600 dps @ 60km
And how long do you have to wait for the drones to close this range? My math suggests it would be roughly 21 seconds for an all drones skills 5 pilot with no implants, rigs or modules that could affect speed. So when you add the travel time to the time required for them to chew through a target your effective DPS is significantly lower. And we have not even begun to talk about the potential that your drones are taking damage the entire time they are in transit. Max speed depends on drone type. Hammerheads are the slowest at 2520 m/s = 23.8s of flight time for 60 km Valkyries are the fastest at 3750 m/s = 16s of flight time for 60 km However it extremely unlikely that each target is 60km from the next one, In most missions targets are clustered in groups, typically at most 3 groups. This reduces the impact of travel time and makes it much less of an issue than you imply it to be. As for drones taking damage whilst launched. That only happens with someone who doesn't understand drone mechanics launching them 'willy nilly' and doing nothing to manage threats and aggro.
Those are just simple calculations, in practice you'd be surprised how much drones derp. Even after reaching their target they initially overshoot and miss a few shots before settling into their orbit. You're also not taking into account the acceleration and deceleration of drones. So even though the next target is only 10km away, they have to accelerate to reach their target, overshoot yet again, then slow down before their paper dps is being applied.
Also drone dps isn't as reliable as guns/missiles. Sometimes drones inexplicably outtrack their own tracking against massive targets. For example if you use heavy drones on a POCO, you'll find that they get grazing shots and misses sometimes.
It's really sentries or go home for PvE IMO. Of course combat drones are useable and have their niche (AFK Ishtar/VNI in null). However if you're looking for efficiency you can't beat instant damage application. |
Kitty Bear
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
1527
|
Posted - 2015.09.20 11:40:12 -
[20] - Quote
Forum Toon wrote:no argue from me it will not be optimal but if I can do L4s in gila while I train for Rattler (battleship \ heavy drones etc...) then heck why not... just wanted to be sure I won't sit there for hours or get pop'd with alpha damage from the rats.
Gila has a very strong passive tank, players will 1 shot alpha you (with enough Ganknado's), but not sure how many they need to bring to accomplish it, definitely more than 1 is needed.
NPC's can just beat it down over time ... offhand the AE4 bonus room does enough dps initially to break the regen of the fit I posted
Dato Koppla wrote:
Those are just simple calculations, in practice you'd be surprised how much drones derp. Even after reaching their target they initially overshoot and miss a few shots before settling into their orbit. You're also not taking into account the acceleration and deceleration of drones. So even though the next target is only 10km away, they have to accelerate to reach their target, overshoot yet again, then slow down before their paper dps is being applied.
Also drone dps isn't as reliable as guns/missiles. Sometimes drones inexplicably outtrack their own tracking against massive targets. For example if you use heavy drones on a POCO, you'll find that they get grazing shots and misses sometimes.
It's really sentries or go home for PvE IMO. Of course combat drones are useable and have their niche (AFK Ishtar/VNI in null). However if you're looking for efficiency you can't beat instant damage application.
For a Rattlesnake i'd recommend a Gecko over regular heavies, it's a much more effective use of the 50mb.
In my experience Medium scouts only have issues when tracking frigates & destroyers, I don't keep logs but iirc misses occur once in every 10-15 lines of combat feed, and the frequency reduces as target ship size increases
If your finding drone tracking to be an issue it's fairly easy to overcome Replace an LSE or the AB with an Omnidirectional Tracking Link + Tacking Speed Script
tracking for drones is a skill-less value, not even sure if there are rigs/implants for it
in closing Drones aren't the afkmachinesofdestruction that people so often make them out to be. They require a reasonable level of micro-management and a good awareness of combat & aggression mechanics When you use them as afkmachinesofdestruction ... they WILL die If you want an AFK playstyle
Use FoF missiles or mining lazers |
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4653
|
Posted - 2015.09.20 15:59:08 -
[21] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:For a Rattlesnake i'd recommend a Gecko over regular heavies, it's a much more effective use of the 50mb. It has great DPS on paper - but it's omni-damage and you lose a lot transitioning between targets. Sentries, despite having less paper DPS - will still outperform Geckos.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Forum Toon
State War Academy Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2015.09.20 17:03:10 -
[22] - Quote
ok I tried some Gila piloting with rank 1+3 on most missiles\drones skills and using navy mediums...
HOLY SH......
that ship....
it's just killing everything so fast.... and the drones are tanking better then most of the ships I've piloted so far. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
532
|
Posted - 2015.09.20 17:05:54 -
[23] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote: As for drones taking damage whilst launched. That only happens with someone who doesn't understand drone mechanics launching them 'willy nilly' and doing nothing to manage threats and aggro. As in a newer player not yet fully versed in the ways of the drones, or level 4's? And this ignores the simple fact that there are missions and indeed NPC that WILL target drones the moment they are launched.
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:For a Rattlesnake i'd recommend a Gecko over regular heavies, it's a much more effective use of the 50mb. It has great DPS on paper - but it's omni-damage and you lose a lot transitioning between targets. Sentries, despite having less paper DPS - will still outperform Geckos. I have never understood the fanatical use and support for the Gecko. Yes in some very specific situations they are the best option, but overall for a mission pilot I cannot see any advantages to them, especially when their cost is considered.
Still wondering why someone would cripple themselves by using either heavies or a Gecko when the sentries are a far better option overall and can easily handle anything but the frigates and destroyers and the lights are a far better option for those anyway.
Going to repeat myself. If you like your Gila then use it. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4655
|
Posted - 2015.09.20 17:53:44 -
[24] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:I have never understood the fanatical use and support for the Gecko. Yes in some very specific situations they are the best option, but overall for a mission pilot I cannot see any advantages to them, especially when their cost is considered.
Still wondering why someone would cripple themselves by using either heavies or a Gecko when the sentries are a far better option overall and can easily handle anything but the frigates and destroyers and the lights are a far better option for those anyway. To some extent I think players are looking to justify the cost. They are cool - and equivalent to launching an assault frigate that applies cruiser damage. The caveat is that they are slow - so unless your targets are point-blank range (Damsel), you easily lose 50% or more of the potential DPS just flying around. And if you let them stray too far and they get scrammed - they're basically hooped. I agree - Wardens for long-range and Gardes for short to mid-range. Even if the specific damage type isn't ideal, when sentries are shooting frigates and cruisers it doesn't really matter.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1733
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Posted - 2015.09.20 20:02:03 -
[25] - Quote
lets drop sentries and then mwd 50km to the gate. Oh brilliant! my drones are now 50km behind me. Or you sit on your drones and then mwd 50km doing no damage.
most of the time yes you do want to use sentries, but the rattlesnake has plenty of room to bring a gecko, and it is a nice tool to have. for missions in brawl range, or when you have to travel.
Newbs used to force their drakes into running level 4s, now it seems even easier with the gila.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Forum Toon
State War Academy Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2015.09.20 20:20:01 -
[26] - Quote
I tried both sentry and brawler fits in the past. I found the brawler gursitas ships amazing dps wise with good tank. once you kill the major damage dealers in the pocket you can move toward the gate killing all those ships flying toward you. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
534
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 03:19:32 -
[27] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:lets drop sentries and then mwd 50km to the gate. Oh brilliant! my drones are now 50km behind me. Or you sit on your drones and then mwd 50km doing no damage. Accepted. My counter would be that you launch sentries and kill big stuff, then pull them and use lights and missiles to get the rest while you move to the next gate or whatever.
And wondering if you have to wait for sentries to kill big stuff and then move to gate while you finish the rest, or wait for the slow Gecko to fly all over hell and back what is the real difference? Granted in some missions the Gecko while moving would be faster but in most of them I do not think there would be any significant time difference. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1737
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Posted - 2015.09.21 04:43:11 -
[28] - Quote
fair enough, I haven't really spent enough time in the ship to know. Although once a gecko gets into a pocket of NPCs it has 7.9km optimal and 8.4km optimal with double optimal range scripted tracking links. 6km+5km without, but 1.497 tracking. so once it gets there it is putting out a ton of damage, and can volley most frigs. not sure how much of that is overkill, without any benefits from tracking links the gecko seemed to graze frigs when it hit, even though it killed them in one shot. I mostly drop the gecko to clean up ships that are near by to minimize travel time.
although a mwd rattle is still pretty slow. I'm half tempted to fly it more often to see how it does, but just can't take myself away from the mach. anything else just feels bleh.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4658
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Posted - 2015.09.21 04:45:50 -
[29] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:the mach. anything else just feels bleh. I understand the Machariel used to have missiles...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1737
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Posted - 2015.09.21 05:17:26 -
[30] - Quote
In my old eft file I have a fit with 2 launchers on it, however the window says -2 launchers, so I'm not 100% on if it had 6 turrets/2 launchers, or 7 turrets 2 launchers.
looking at my even older version of EFT, it had 6 turret hard points and 4 missile hard points. heh, this version of EFT doesn't have implants, but polycarbons give mass reductions if only I could add snakes and mind linked gang implants. So it had implants, but all the ship bonuses were to guns.
@ChainsawPlankto
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