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Loc Maythan
Gallente Alfa00 Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.21 10:59:00 -
[1]
I noticed in another thread - Linkage - the comment that AFs are uninsurable. Is this true?
I knew that undockable ships like Titans couldn't be insured, though this is by reading stuff, rather than experience, obviously. Presumably smaller ships like AFs can be docked, which seems to indicate another category of ship - those which can be docked, but not insured. Can anyone confirm that the following list is complete:
1) Ships which can be docked and insured 2) Ships which can be docked and not insured 3) Ships which cannot be docked and not insured
Are there any other categories, though the only one left would seem to be undockable ships which can be insured? Presumably 'uninsurable' refers to insuring a ship for more than the base price, which you get whenever a ship is destroyed? Do you have, or know of, a complete list of which ships can't be insured? Do you know what the reasoning is for not allowing AFs (and any other dockable yet uninsurable ships) to be insured?
Thanks in advance,
Loc
P.S. I did not post this in the original thread as I did not want to provoke an off-topic discussion.
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Sonos SAGD
Minmatar Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.21 11:01:00 -
[2]
what they mean is that your insurance pay out might be 2 mil for a 16 mil ship so there is no point in insuring it
they only ships that cannot have insurance is Motherships and titans
everything else can have insurance its just the base cost which can be hundreds of millions bellow what you paid
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Estel Arador
Minmatar AFK
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Posted - 2006.12.21 11:02:00 -
[3]
AFs are not "uninsurable", it's just that they're not insureable for the price they're on the market. Max insurance only pays out 100% of the value of the minerals which go into a ship. T2 ships (including AFs) require more than just that and usually have a nice markup, so the insurance value is well below the market value.
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Chronus26
Gallente Dark Blood Contracts
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Posted - 2006.12.21 11:02:00 -
[4]
People say they are 'uninsurable' not because you can't physically insure them, but because they payout of any insurance is nowhere close to the market value of the ship.
The Insurance payout is determined by the base price of the ship, and since there is a considerable markup from base price on Assault Ships (and most other Tech 2 ships), the insurance payout will not reflect the price you usually pay for the ship. -----
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qvacky
AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2006.12.21 11:03:00 -
[5]
Its not that they're uninsurable, its just that the payout is an absolute pittance compared to the price you pay for the ship. As such, its basically pointless insuring them.
The only true uninsurable ships are the motherships and titans.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2006.12.21 11:03:00 -
[6]
AF can be insured, it's us the market price is so high over the base price, which insurance is based from, that insurance does not come anywhere near covering it.
Of course, you do get more for insuring it than not, since the initial incurance cost is also based on the ships base price, it's also very low
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Red Rumurder
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:06:00 -
[7]
do you insure faction ships, i got almost all of the faction frigs and none of the are insured. 60mil ship and ins payout is 250k, you wouldn't insure it either
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Tiger Tamer
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Red Rumurder do you insure faction ships, i got almost all of the faction frigs and none of the are insured. 60mil ship and ins payout is 250k, you wouldn't insure it either
If you expect to get it blown up, there's no reason to not insure it. Just like any other ship... the payout may be a small fraction of what you paid for the ship but it's still larger than zero. --- I'd post with my main, if I wasn't a spy in your corp |
Deriger
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:25:00 -
[9]
Tech 2 ships are an example of monopoly at its finest.
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Cryten Jones
Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:51:00 -
[10]
I just don't understand why the insurance can't be freeform. You type in the ammount you want to insure a ship for and you are offered a premium on that ISK value.
You could insure a ibis for 100 mill if you like but you will pay a premium for that value....
Seems neet, and as far as I can see fair and safe exploit wise.
-CJ
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Aeoa
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cryten Jones I just don't understand why the insurance can't be freeform. You type in the ammount you want to insure a ship for and you are offered a premium on that ISK value.
You could insure a ibis for 100 mill if you like but you will pay a premium for that value....
Seems neet, and as far as I can see fair and safe exploit wise.
-CJ
Umm, unless the insurance costs 100 mil, it is free isk. Destroy, rinse, repeat.
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Krulla
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.21 14:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cryten Jones I just don't understand why the insurance can't be freeform. You type in the ammount you want to insure a ship for and you are offered a premium on that ISK value.
You could insure a ibis for 100 mill if you like but you will pay a premium for that value....
Seems neet, and as far as I can see fair and safe exploit wise.
-CJ
Safe expoit wise?
Let's say I insure my Ibis for 100 million. I would pay 30 million or so for this (actual number is irrelevant, as I would pay less than the 100 million payout).
I now blow up my Ibis. I get a 100 million payout, but I only payed 30 mil. I just made 70 million isk appear out of thin air with no loss whatsoever, since my Ibis was free.
Safe exploit wise indeed.
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Cryten Jones
Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.21 15:17:00 -
[13]
Humm, well I guess I was thinking of how car insurance works in the real world.... Kind of forgot that to make this work you would need the concept of no claims discounts and also a insurance claim history for the cost of insurance to be based on..
Oh well, stick that in the bad ideas book and move on :(
-CJ
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Zolofine
Obsidian Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.21 15:34:00 -
[14]
Setting your own insurance is a neat concept, and i'm sure if it was in fact exploit safe, ccp would have thought about this already... the problem is as has been pointed out, the actual cost of the ship must match the insurance value.
In the real world you CAN insure a car, or anything for that matter, way over it's price, but the insurance fee will reflect the insured amount and if you destroy the insured item in question, forensic guys will come and check if it really was an accident or if you caused the accident... none of that in EVE.
The current insurance system is already borderline exploitable. I remember when the asteroids respawned fat and juicy after every downtime and mineral prices crashed... people were building, insuring and blowing up their own ship because insurance pay-out was higher than market value.
And then there is also the problem that a viable insurance for T2 ships will increase their demand. Viable insurance means more people are going to buy and take out T2 ships for PVP, hence more get popped, hence more demand which will increase their price.
The only way i see that insurance can 'work' on T2 ships is if you base the insurance payout on the universal market average.
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Kylania
Gallente Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.21 15:37:00 -
[15]
What they said. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap | CCG Card Lookup |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.21 16:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zolofine The only way i see that insurance can 'work' on T2 ships is if you base the insurance payout on the universal market average.
Which will mean everyone will sell t2 ships at 10 billion each, since if a zealot costs, say, 20mil to make, they will suicide it to get free isk --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Rodge
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.21 16:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cryten Jones Humm, well I guess I was thinking of how car insurance works in the real world.... Kind of forgot that to make this work you would need the concept of no claims discounts and also a insurance claim history for the cost of insurance to be based on..
Comparing it with RL car insurance isn't quite the best way of looking at it. After all, how many people have guns on their car and get shot at on a daily basis?
If a vehicle does have guns on it, and intends to shoot them, you think the insurance market even looks at them? ie, try ringing around and trying to insure a fully functional tank that you're planning on driving around a warzone!
Sig inappropriate-not eve related -Abdalion
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Deriger Tech 2 ships are an example of undersupply at its finest.
Fixed.
-[23] Member-
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rodge
Originally by: Cryten Jones Humm, well I guess I was thinking of how car insurance works in the real world.... Kind of forgot that to make this work you would need the concept of no claims discounts and also a insurance claim history for the cost of insurance to be based on..
Comparing it with RL car insurance isn't quite the best way of looking at it. After all, how many people have guns on their car and get shot at on a daily basis?
If a vehicle does have guns on it, and intends to shoot them, you think the insurance market even looks at them? ie, try ringing around and trying to insure a fully functional tank that you're planning on driving around a warzone!
try getting extra life insurance if you are in the military. You get te SGLI, which is $250k, for dirt cheap, but private insuarance either won't touch you, or put so many restrictions on the payout that you are just wasting money.
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Rollava Pollkin
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tiger Tamer
If you expect to get it blown up, there's no reason to not insure it. Just like any other ship... the payout may be a small fraction of what you paid for the ship but it's still larger than zero.
honetly thedifference twixt default and 100% insurance on a tech II ship with decent fittings is just a bigger slap in the face
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