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Xendie
Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.24 00:30:00 -
[1]
i dont understand why capitals isnt allowed in highsec. if its the fact that people would use it to blow ppl up then it can be solved easily by tailoring sentries to do dmg based on size of ship they are shooting at and thus nailing a capital as fast as a frigate.
infact making sentries work based on target size and concord also would greatly improve other aspects of the game also.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.24 01:46:00 -
[2]
Sentries aren't a problem, it's Concord. I dont' see why CCP even bothers having Concord do damage in a normal way. Just give them a fold-space annihilator that ejects you from your ship and destroys it, so there's no risk of people tanking them even long enough to smartbomb a hauler and they don't lag you so hard you can't get your pod away.
And to the original idea, I think we'd see a ton of cap ships in empire, with fighters in every complex and mission. It should be a risk just to take a capital ship out of the station, and they'd be too safe in high-sec. -------------- Civis Ascendant Sum |
phillip duncan
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Posted - 2006.12.24 12:33:00 -
[3]
I also thinks its to incourage peaple to got into low sec and 0.0. There also the risk verses reward if capital ships were allowed in high Empire, Dreads would replace mining barges in short order, massive cargobay, tank and with more high points the the large barge can point more strip miners. Low sec would be avoided completely by goods moving between empire and 0.0 as Carriers would be used to jump (currently happening in 0.0 and low sec) from 0.0 to empire.
There is also the empire problem with carriers far launch ability, if the person you assign a fighter to attacks another player its as if you did. So if they randomly ganked another player concord would turn up and destroy your carrier with out you doing anything wrong. Also imagine some running a mission with a secound account in a carrier so they have a BS plus a full set of fighters alting the risk.
Also how many governments let there citisans have the largest weapons avaiable to there amies on the streets? Given the size of some of the empires, if all the alliances teamed up they could deploy more ships specifically capital ships and take the empire out.
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.27 19:31:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader Sentries aren't a problem, it's Concord. I dont' see why CCP even bothers having Concord do damage in a normal way. Just give them a fold-space annihilator that ejects you from your ship and destroys it, so there's no risk of people tanking them even long enough to smartbomb a hauler and they don't lag you so hard you can't get your pod away.
And to the original idea, I think we'd see a ton of cap ships in empire, with fighters in every complex and mission. It should be a risk just to take a capital ship out of the station, and they'd be too safe in high-sec.
ban carriers and fighters from entering deadspace complexes.
Originally by: phillip duncan I also thinks its to incourage peaple to got into low sec and 0.0. There also the risk verses reward if capital ships were allowed in high Empire, Dreads would replace mining barges in short order, massive cargobay, tank and with more high points the the large barge can point more strip miners. Low sec would be avoided completely by goods moving between empire and 0.0 as Carriers would be used to jump (currently happening in 0.0 and low sec) from 0.0 to empire.
There is also the empire problem with carriers far launch ability, if the person you assign a fighter to attacks another player its as if you did. So if they randomly ganked another player concord would turn up and destroy your carrier with out you doing anything wrong. Also imagine some running a mission with a secound account in a carrier so they have a BS plus a full set of fighters alting the risk.
Also how many governments let there citisans have the largest weapons avaiable to there amies on the streets? Given the size of some of the empires, if all the alliances teamed up they could deploy more ships specifically capital ships and take the empire out.
simple stop mining lasers from being able to be fitted to dreads. as for the thing about being blown up in your carrier because you assigned fighters to someone, dont assign fighters in empire to dumb people. if you still do its your loss.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2006.12.27 19:40:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader Sentries aren't a problem, it's Concord. I dont' see why CCP even bothers having Concord do damage in a normal way. Just give them a fold-space annihilator that ejects you from your ship and destroys it, so there's no risk of people tanking them even long enough to smartbomb a hauler and they don't lag you so hard you can't get your pod away.
And to the original idea, I think we'd see a ton of cap ships in empire, with fighters in every complex and mission. It should be a risk just to take a capital ship out of the station, and they'd be too safe in high-sec.
ban carriers and fighters from entering deadspace complexes.
Originally by: phillip duncan I also thinks its to incourage peaple to got into low sec and 0.0. There also the risk verses reward if capital ships were allowed in high Empire, Dreads would replace mining barges in short order, massive cargobay, tank and with more high points the the large barge can point more strip miners. Low sec would be avoided completely by goods moving between empire and 0.0 as Carriers would be used to jump (currently happening in 0.0 and low sec) from 0.0 to empire.
There is also the empire problem with carriers far launch ability, if the person you assign a fighter to attacks another player its as if you did. So if they randomly ganked another player concord would turn up and destroy your carrier with out you doing anything wrong. Also imagine some running a mission with a secound account in a carrier so they have a BS plus a full set of fighters alting the risk.
Also how many governments let there citisans have the largest weapons avaiable to there amies on the streets? Given the size of some of the empires, if all the alliances teamed up they could deploy more ships specifically capital ships and take the empire out.
simple stop mining lasers from being able to be fitted to dreads. as for the thing about being blown up in your carrier because you assigned fighters to someone, dont assign fighters in empire to dumb people. if you still do its your loss.
U mean 4 mining lasers is the reason why dreads are banned from empire ? /me thinks about that amount of veldspar...
Cap ships can't use acc gates already, bout fighters why remove them ? Coz u don't have friend with carrier ? /me wonders
And as stated above, you don't hold weapon of massive destruction near city. ----------------- My english bad, F1, F2, F3, F4...
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.12.27 23:47:00 -
[6]
I really think the restriction was just implemented to give some additional encouragement to move into low sec/0.0. Another point could be to prevent traders from using carriers as means of transportation.
Maybe CCP could give us a hint what the real reasons behind this is, would be nice to know. (Maybe they fear the flames because its just role-play. ) ------------------------------------------------------- Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Angelus Xenotov
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Posted - 2006.12.28 03:42:00 -
[7]
Possible reason 1:
Jita + Dread/Carrier camp = End of Jita.
Newbie system + Dread/Carrier camp = End of newbies.
Dread/carrier + Concord = no dreads/carriers destroyed unless they engage while outside of a stations docking range.
Dread/Carrier + any system = *****for anyone.
Reason 2: Well its just the same as reason one. Capital ships in high sec is a BAD IDEA for so many reasons.
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PartyVaN
Minmatar The Hand Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.28 03:56:00 -
[8]
I wonder what the "roleplay" reason for capitals being banned from highsec is. I mean you'd think they could jump into a highsec system but will immediately be flagged and hunted down by concord.
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shady trader
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Posted - 2006.12.28 13:24:00 -
[9]
I sm not sure you can set up the cryo feild in high Empire. I have not tried but I think there it will not allow you to power it up.
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2006.12.28 13:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: shady trader I sm not sure you can set up the cryo feild in high Empire. I have not tried but I think there it will not allow you to power it up.
Aye you can't put cyno in empire ----------------- My english bad, F1, F2, F3, F4...
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Xendie
Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.28 16:44:00 -
[11]
it is after all a pvp game. or that is what they have labeled it while boosting carebearing to the max every patch. more war and more insecurity is needed, if people want to risk loosing dreads and carriers they should be able to if they are at war in any location.
with POS in high sec the dreads and carriers need to be allowed in also to kill them off.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Draec Sjet
Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.29 00:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader Sentries aren't a problem, it's Concord. I dont' see why CCP even bothers having Concord do damage in a normal way. Just give them a fold-space annihilator that ejects you from your ship and destroys it, so there's no risk of people tanking them even long enough to smartbomb a hauler and they don't lag you so hard you can't get your pod away.
And to the original idea, I think we'd see a ton of cap ships in empire, with fighters in every complex and mission. It should be a risk just to take a capital ship out of the station, and they'd be too safe in high-sec.
you're missing the point of eve entirely. this isn't WoW; we have a unique game where we can decide to do what we want and the game supports us for this! this is why concord are tankable;, because if you want to commit a criminal offence the game is designed to make sure you can, but with reprocussions. there would be no pirates apart from 0.0 with your suggestion, and thats just daft; pirating is a brilliant feature in eve when so many other MMORPGs frown on it.
Long Live Concord
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Awox
I Fought Piranhas
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Posted - 2006.12.30 05:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Xendie i dont understand why capitals isnt allowed in highsec. if its the fact that people would use it to blow ppl up then it can be solved easily by tailoring sentries to do dmg based on size of ship they are shooting at and thus nailing a capital as fast as a frigate.
infact making sentries work based on target size and concord also would greatly improve other aspects of the game also.
Once you get set-up with alts it's very easy to move 10bn worth of megacyte quickly and at almost no risk. Also, high-sec is laggy enough without people putting fighters out.
or.. was there some other reason for capitals to be needed in high-sec? AFAIK empire systems cannot be siezed so the only use for capitals in high-sec would be hauling valuables.. -- *snip* Discussing moderation/ linking to flamebait is a no-no. Read the forum rules before reposting. If you have any questions, email us at [email protected] Tirg |
Strikeclone
Caldari The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2006.12.30 06:42:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Strikeclone on 30/12/2006 06:45:10 Its about time capital ships were allowed into empire space. Like many new items in Eve they are released pre-nerfed to see how they function in the full enviroment.
Since dreads exsist to kill POS's and POS's are now allowed in empire space then we need dreads in empire space to destroy them.
Carriers are support ships for fleets so I can't see any reason for them to be banned from empire space now.
The cost of buying and operation these ships is quite an inhibitor to prevent their casual use buy suicide gankers or what ever.
Also people should try to remember that although Eve is not WoW, it doesn't exsist to serve just the needs and desires of pvpers. Some players prefer to operate in or around empire space (such as mercenaries who must pursue the targets anywhere)
Allowing use of capital ships in empire space neither solves nor makes worst lagy or crowded systems, those are differnet problems wioth different solutions. But it would open up the content to more users, increasing the market for ores, capital parts and ships and the fuels to boot.
Eve is supposed to be about breaking limits not imposing them.
From a rolepay aspects CCP could use capitals in empire space to give corp standings have meaning (which they should ahve done from the start to control cruiser/battleship numbers)
Capital ships will only be allowed to jump into an empire space if the controlling corp has a standing of XX (where XX is what ever high rating seems fair)
Conditions. Both capital pilot and cyno pilot must be in the same corporation not noob corps or 1 man corp, with the appropriate standing towards and from teh empire they are entering.
Mis-use of capital ships in emprie space inflicts a hefty standing penalty from the empire on the pilots corp. For example no none war attacks or any other activity for which you would be criminally flagged.
Empires might allow mile long batleships armed with tremendous weaponry in orbit around their colonies. But several mile long capital ships with continent wrecking weapons will be watched. (yes this is a dig CCP as you should have better controlled the use of battleships and cruisers)
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Lang Linwei
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.30 06:47:00 -
[15]
if you're looking for a roleplay reason, its simple. None of the alliance governments would want to allow capital ships that close to their home systems. Coups for the lose, at least to them.
If you're looking for a gameplay reason. Think of empire wars and gate camps in high traffic trade hubs right now. Now think of that but w/ carriers and motherships w/ fighters out.
For gods sake think of the sheer number of cyno fields there would be in jita.
No, limiting cap ships to low sec or 0.0 makes all kinds of sense both gameplay and RP wise. Now if I could just get my hands on one of the concord cynosural field suppression devices...
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Thomas Torquemada
Minmatar Universal Peace Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.30 21:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Xendie i dont understand why capitals isnt allowed in highsec. if its the fact that people would use it to blow ppl up then it can be solved easily by tailoring sentries to do dmg based on size of ship they are shooting at and thus nailing a capital as fast as a frigate.
infact making sentries work based on target size and concord also would greatly improve other aspects of the game also.
Would agent runers an easier win buton, would also be a preferred option over a freighter, and probably make empire wars a bigger lagfest/pain than already.
Probably a lot more reasons, none spring to mind atm.
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
Strikeclone
Caldari The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2006.12.30 21:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Thomas Torquemada Would agent runers an easier win buton, would also be a preferred option over a freighter, and probably make empire wars a bigger lagfest/pain than already.
Probably a lot more reasons, none spring to mind atm.
apart from the fact that capital ships cant enter dead space, and cant use jump gates so would have to expend million of isk in fuel to earn less millions back from the missions.....
Not to mention that mission runners dont need to use capital ships to complete any lvl 4 mission a pimped out raven costing less than a carrier can do that.
Missions are broke this is old news and can hardly be used to justify an argument against the o/p
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Strikeclone
Caldari The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2006.12.30 21:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lang Linwei if you're looking for a roleplay reason, its simple. None of the alliance governments would want to allow capital ships that close to their home systems. Coups for the lose, at least to them.[/qoute]
Yes because the fleets of battleships and their supports are not a threat are they....
Originally by: Lang Linwei
If you're looking for a gameplay reason. Think of empire wars and gate camps in high traffic trade hubs right now. Now think of that but w/ carriers and motherships w/ fighters out.
I some how doubt that Jita would be full of noobs in capital ships..... apart from the billions needed in outlay just to buy let along outfit and operate capital ships, they do have pretty expensive and stringent skill requirements.
Nearly a billion isk in skills just for the carrier alone (not including the skills required just to train the carrier skills.)
Capital ship restrictions need to be removed now.
Eve is about breaking limits not imposing them, certainly not about imposing them with ill thought out arguments.
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2006.12.31 00:56:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Valandril on 31/12/2006 01:03:36 Edited by: Valandril on 31/12/2006 00:59:20 Lets bring some rl examples to this discussion.
Lets say bses, frigs, cruses are infantry. So capital ships are tanks, simple thinking.
Now tell me which country hold his tanks IN theyr cities ?
About that POSes, theyr not mining ones so whatever
Also imagine that afk minig that would lead too with theyr cargo, turn mining on and go out for a week - isk flowing in.
What about jumping a titan into jita and running doomsday device? Free rigs and mods anyone ?
Edit. I forgot about orethiefing carriers :P ----------------- My english bad, F1, F2, F3, F4...
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Mephesto Nizal
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Posted - 2006.12.31 01:28:00 -
[20]
when factional warfare comes into play, do you suppose ccp will lift the rules?
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The Associate
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Posted - 2006.12.31 07:14:00 -
[21]
Edited by: The Associate on 31/12/2006 07:14:23 deleted
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Strikeclone
Caldari The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2006.12.31 07:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Valandril
Lets bring some rl examples to this discussion.
Lets say bses, frigs, cruses are infantry. So capital ships are tanks, simple thinking.
Now tell me which country hold his tanks IN theyr cities ?
A ridiculous example, tanks are held in cities, where do you think they are based? Go to any military barracks they are always built (in UK anyway) near to a major population centre. Take Salisbury for instance a garrison of over 10,000 soldiers and their tanks, APCs, IFVs, artillery, ammunition.
Originally by: Valandril
Also imagine that afk minig that would lead too with theyr cargo, turn mining on and go out for a week - isk flowing in.
I'm failry certain that no one is going to spend upwards of 3 billion isk (not to mention a year of skill training) just to strip mine 10 million of veld.....
Originally by: Valandril
What about jumping a titan into jita and running doomsday device? Free rigs and mods anyone ?
Well I am sure BoB has better things to do than loose their titan to concord ganking noobs in Jita.
But I'm sure that we are talking about capital ships here i.e. dreads and carriers, not the montrosities that are titans. (can I say titans? isn't there only one left?)
Originally by: Valandril Edit. I forgot about orethiefing carriers :P
Lol @ your total ignorance and outrageous examples, I refer you to my earlier comment
Originally by: Strikeclone
I'm failry certain that no one is going to spend upwards of 3 billion isk (not to mention a year of skill training) just to strip mine 10 million of veld.....
As you clearly know nothing about capital ships I would suggest you do some reading about the skills (and skill training time and costs) involved in captial ship piloting, not to mention the cost of buying, outfitting, and running a captial ship.
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Strikeclone
Caldari The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2006.12.31 07:18:00 -
[23]
I would put it to the floor that if/when capital ships are allowed into empire space that the empire navies and prehaps concord are supplied with the ability to deploy capital ships in response to threats.
Furthermore moronic comments about Jita really should be left out of this discussion as Jita is a completrely seperate problem and irrelevant to this topic.
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2006.12.31 10:44:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Valandril on 31/12/2006 10:44:35
Originally by: Strikeclone ow nothing about capital ships I would suggest you do some reading about the skills (and skill training time and costs) involved in captial ship piloting, not to mention the cost of buying, outfitting, and running a captial ship.
Amen, at least i know how many titans we got in game atm, and its a lot higher than 1. Wake up ? Also you forgot about bored ppl with awesome amount of isk, who are bored and will do that suicidal doomsday. ----------------- My english bad, F1, F2, F3, F4...
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Strikeclone
Caldari The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2007.01.01 03:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Valandril
Also you forgot about bored ppl with awesome amount of isk, who are bored and will do that suicidal doomsday.
OMG, so your a bored player of Eve you a trillion isk in the bank and you want to spend 100s of billions setting up the infrastructure to build a titan. Then you are going to invest in some +5 implants and set up your year plus of skill training.
Then a year or more from now when you have the very, very basic skills required to fly that titan you will have a cyno alt/corp pilots set up in jita just so you can destroy a few dozen noob ships and haulers at a gate in jita, with the collective value of aroun a billion isk.
Yeah I am sure this is why capital ships are banned from secure space, because eve would become flooded with bored billionairs suicide ganking in titans.......
moron.
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.01 03:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Strikeclone moron.
Nice to meet you moron, i'm Val. Now grab your toys, join alliance with territory claimed so you can play with ur cap ship w/o loosing it in first day. ----------------- My english bad, F1, F2, F3, F4...
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Strikeclone
Caldari The Steel Ravens
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Posted - 2007.01.01 06:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Strikeclone moron.
Nice to meet you moron, i'm Val. Now grab your toys, join alliance with territory claimed so you can play with ur cap ship w/o loosing it in first day.
I am sure the o/p and other sensible postees appreciate your contributions as to fore or against cap ships in empire space.
You have constantly posted moronic, and ill thought out posts on this topic hat clearly show you have no idea about capital ships. All of which I have counter posted with my arguments against you and yet you just copy and paste your statements and repost them totaly ignoring any points made against you.
This is a thread about allowing capital ships in empire, ie carriers and dreads. And now that you have proven to have no clue about the subject you fall back on cheap shots about joining aliances and going to 0.0
the whole point of the thread is to use caps ships in EMPIRE.
I refer you to my earlier comment.
Moron.
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Sebroth
Coordination Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.01.01 10:02:00 -
[28]
I believe its all rp reasons.(Im no rollplayer tho)
The big empires donĘt like others putting up cynofields in their space. I would be like CCCP flying a Mig over US airspace during the ę60s. I also think that ccp took the easy way out on this and instead of letting the navies of the different empires blowing up every single capital ship entering their home systems ccp banned them all together.
I think it was a good move keeping the capital ships out from .5<
----- Never knock on Death's door; ring the doorbell and run (he hates that) |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2007.01.01 10:13:00 -
[29]
Ok, the RP reason capital ships can't enter Empire space is due to the Yulai agreement, which created CONCORD and formalized peace between the Empires. Key to this was the banning of ALL capital ships from CONCORD secured space, including those owned by the Empires.
I would guess the reason this was done was to allow CONCORD to police space without the Empire's swatting them aside, as well as to provide diplomatic security - if capital ships were allowed in Empire then your fleet of dreadnaughts could be minutes from jumping into orbit above the homeworld of whoever you're negotiating with, and it would just be a perpetual state of "fingers on the trigger". With them banned from high-sec, CONCORD can guarantee a certain amount of forewarning and mobilization if someone tries to move a fleet into Empire.
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Thomas Torquemada
Minmatar Universal Peace Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Strikeclone
Originally by: Thomas Torquemada Would agent runers an easier win buton, would also be a preferred option over a freighter, and probably make empire wars a bigger lagfest/pain than already.
Probably a lot more reasons, none spring to mind atm.
apart from the fact that capital ships cant enter dead space, and cant use jump gates so would have to expend million of isk in fuel to earn less millions back from the missions.....
Not to mention that mission runners dont need to use capital ships to complete any lvl 4 mission a pimped out raven costing less than a carrier can do that.
Missions are broke this is old news and can hardly be used to justify an argument against the o/p
why use the gate when it could theoretically cyno direct to the deadspace area a gangmates already inside.
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
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