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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2656
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:07:26 -
[1] - Quote
So I heard about some new tech 2 destroyers being in the works. You can read about them here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3n9le6/new_t2_destroyers_coming/ The relevant point for this post is that they will be able to use a micro jump field module which will jump them along with all the other ships around them. Now we don't have all of the specifics yet, but some folks are speculating that they can be used offensively to move enemy ships to where you want them to be. It got me thinking about the range of capital ship weapons, and how so far pretty much the only purpose of range on dreadnoughts in the past has been to shoot across the POS shield to the tower. Now even that's gone.
So I had an idea to make range important again, and it involves micro jump field PVP. It could furthermore help to improve the relevance of dreadnoughts in capital battles.
If these new T2 destroyers could microjump a dreadnought or titan a long ways away, that capital ship might wind up isolated from its primary targets and out of range to shoot anything. But if it had very long range weaponry, it might be much safer from being displaced, and could perhaps just shoot from further away without losing much DPS. This could also be used for positioning of dreadnoughts: a dreadnought group could sacrifice some DPS in order to have superior range on the enemy.
Currently, long range capital turrets have significantly more range than long range large turrets, however when you account for range bonuses on sniper battleships and the huge advantage granted by tech 2 long range ammo, capital ships lose a lot of their range advantage and you'll find their range is not significantly higher than battleships. I'd like to see a bit of an increase in the range of these weapons so that dreadnoughts and titans (primarily dreadnoughts) can have a purpose as a ship with such high range that it is difficult to dislocate it from its targets without completely removing it from the grid.
Let me compare a Rokh using T2 railguns with a Moros using meta railguns:
The Moros sacrifices 46% of its DPS by fitting railguns instead of blasters, and this gives it the following range attributes (with max skills, before any other effects): 66km optimal plus 30km falloff with antimatter ammo, with 12.5x the DPS of the Rokh, which has 54km optimal plus 30km falloff with antimatter ammo
Giving the Rokh spike ammo and the Moros iron ammo gives the following values: Moros has 211km optimal plus 30km falloff, with only 7.8x the Rokh's DPS Rokh has 194km optimal plus 30km falloff
So the Moros has 14.3% more range when both ships use t1 ammo, but the advantage goes down to 7.5% when the Rokh uses t2 ammo. Furthermore, the Moros has a 16.7% longer base targeting range than the Rokh.
PROPOSED CHANGES
* increase Dreadnought targeting range by approximately 7%, so that Moros will have 25% longer targeting range than Rokh, and will be able to reach 247.5km (almost to the limit) with max relevant skills, one T2 sensor booster with range script, and a fleet boosting character who has Information Warfare 5.
* increase XL long range turret optimal range by about 10% which in the case of railguns will increase the max-skill unboosted iron ammo range to 232.3km optimal plus 30km falloff, allowing for a significantly better ability for the Moros and other dreadnoughts to shoot out to the range limit.
* alternatively, the ships could be given a similar bonus instead to falloff, which will have the strongest impact when using shorter range ammo and will give long-range XL turrets a greater range flexibility than subcapital turrets have, much like XL short range turrets already enjoy. For the XL railguns, this would mean adding 20km falloff instead of increasing optimal by 10%.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3903
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:36:10 -
[2] - Quote
Or, we could wait and see if these things can even be used offensively, and what their effect, if any, on a ship in siege mode is? |
Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
146
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:51:46 -
[3] - Quote
Also, T2 capital guns being announced at Eve Vegas, wich means T2 ammo. So, maybe read ALL the updates, and wait for the relevant ones?
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2656
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:52:30 -
[4] - Quote
Here are some other comparisons:
Apocalypse with Tachyons/Aurora ammo: 163km optimal plus 25km falloff Revelation with modal beams/radio ammo: 176km optimal plus 40km falloff and 5.5x Apocalypse DPS Revelation with beams/radio with +10% optimal: 193.6km optimal plus 40km falloff and 5.5x Apocalypse DPS
Apocalypse with Tachyons/multifrequency ammo: 45km optimal plus 25km falloff Revelation with beams/multifrequency ammo and falloff bonus: 55km optimal plus 56km falloff and 8.9x Apocalypse DPS
Apocalypse targeting range with 1 t2 sebo and fleet booster: 160.6km Revelation targeting range with 1 t2 sebo and fleet booster: 214.5km Revelation targeting range with sebo/FC and targeting range bonus: 229.8km
Raven with t2 launcher, t1 cruise missiles: 222.1km range, 21s flight time Phoenix with meta launcher, t1 cruise missiles: 192.4km range, 22.5s flight time and 8.8x Raven DPS Phoenix with cruise with +10% missile velocity: 211.6km range, 22.5s flight time and 8.8x Raven DPS
Raven targeting range with 1 t2 sebo and fleet booster: 165km Phoenix targeting range with 1 t2 sebo and fleet booster: 253km Phoenix targeting range with sebo and targeting range bonus and without fleet booster: 253km
Tornado with 1400mm/Tremor ammo: 108km optimal plus 55km falloff Naglfar with 3500mm/proton ammo: 158km optimal plus 88km falloff and 6.2x Tornado DPS/5.5x Tornado alpha Naglfar with 3500mm/proton with +10% optimal: 174.2km optimal plus 88km falloff and 6.2x Tornado DPS/5.5x Tornado alpha
Tornado with 1400mm/EMP ammo: 30km optimal plus 55km falloff Naglfar with 3500mm/EMP ammo and falloff bonus: 50km optimal plus 103km falloff and 9.9x Tornado DPS/8.8x Tornado alpha
Tornado targeting range with 1 t2 sebo and fleet booster: 132km Naglfar targeting range with 1 t2 sebo and fleet booster: 203.5km Naglfar targeting range with sebo/FC and targeting range bonus: 223.8km
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2656
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 23:53:38 -
[5] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Or, we could wait and see if these things can even be used offensively, and what their effect, if any, on a ship in siege mode is? Why wait when I can instead make suggestions for the future?
Nyalnara wrote:Also, T2 capital guns being announced at Eve Vegas, wich means T2 ammo. So, maybe read ALL the updates, and wait for the relevant ones? Where did you find this, and where can I find the updates?
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
|
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
508
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 23:56:34 -
[6] - Quote
I just want a rebalanced Revelation. It's a pile of 2 billion crap in its current state. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2570
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Posted - 2015.10.09 02:28:34 -
[7] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Where did you find this, and where can I find the updates? Probably on Reddit or Slack, certainly not on CCP's own forums. |
Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
146
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 09:17:07 -
[8] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Where did you find this, and where can I find the updates? Probably on Reddit or Slack, certainly not on CCP's own forums.
The screenshot was indeed released by a CCP Dev on Reddit.
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
98
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Posted - 2015.10.09 09:20:50 -
[9] - Quote
Nyalnara wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Where did you find this, and where can I find the updates? Probably on Reddit or Slack, certainly not on CCP's own forums. The screenshot was indeed released by a CCP Dev on Reddit.
link? |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2656
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 19:19:09 -
[10] - Quote
I did find this: http://updates.eveonline.com/coming/winter/
It tells of several things that aren't mentioned in F&ID but doesn't give any links to discussions or further details unless there is either a devblog or F&ID forum post about it. No mention of T2 capital weapons, but it does mention that remote assistance modules and energy warfare modules are getting falloff values, and also that explosion, engine, starfield, and rust/dust effects are receiving updates. Eventually our ships will collect dust/grime from being used, and rust from sitting in the hangar, and we'll get kill marks visible on a ship for each kill it makes. This stuff is all supposed to be released either sometime this year or early 2016.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
|
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Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
148
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 20:32:37 -
[11] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:link?
Nope, couldn't find it anymore :/
Well, it should be announced at Eve-Vegas next month, they said they would speak about capital ship rebalance there.
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Asuka Solo
Instant Annihilation
3000
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Posted - 2015.10.11 07:08:06 -
[12] - Quote
Reaver, I don't have a habit of enjoying your suggestions... but I believe you are onto something here.
That being said, I think increasing range of capitals is a drop in the bucket compared to the function bonuses / abilities that sub caps enjoy (or will in the near future) these days.
I have my own manifesto of what I believe capital ships and supers should be in Eve online, but I'm going to hold my breath and wait to see the outcomes of Eve Vegas before I march to the statues in disgust or anger.
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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