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Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:25:00 - [61] Originally by: Lady Noir Nobody whined about the actual chances of success and what type of BPC you get out of invention, because nobody knew, now that we have done quite a few invention jobs, it is obvious that the chance of a successful invention job compared to the RP cost of datacores is extremely out of wack. To be honest, there were some people who pointed out that the cost for datacores might be a bit unbalanced. Those where the people you laughed at, because you would never run out of datacores from your research agents. Originally by: Lady Noir For our first interface we build i alone have enough agents gathering rp that i could get enough datacores to invent FOREVER, yes, my rp will never run out. Originally by: Lady Noir I know you so dearly want to find a way to make me look bad, ... What makes you look bad are statements like this one: Originally by: Lady Noir Ahhh, i can see why you think invention is so hard now, because your a god damned noob. Invention is easy and cheap if you have even half a clue about anything in EVE. I am sure you can figure out why that is the case. Originally by: Lady Noir ... and that invention up until the point that we had all tested (which was the obtaining interface bpc's and building them) was fine. What does that have to do with the fact that invention jobs have about a 15-20% success rate with maxed skills and me now coming here and stating that i believe this part of invention, ie, the end product success chance and result bpc, makes invention not worth it? Two completely seperate issues. You went as far as to tell the devs "Invention, Don't make it any easier", not a single word about "invention as far as I have tried it" or separate issues. Don't try to spin your own words, please.
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:26:00 - [62] Ok, this may be a hijacking of this thread, but its worth it i think. Has anyone, in any thread, dev blog or IRC, heard a mention or comment about invention since KALI/Revelations went live? Storm Thesis CEO
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:28:00 - [63] Originally by: Kirjava Ok, this may be a hijacking of this thread, but its worth it i think. Has anyone, in any thread, dev blog or IRC, heard a mention or comment about invention since KALI/Revelations went live? AFAIK: no. Otherwise we had people here telling us what was said. This thread receives A LOT of attention. Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
Lady Noir	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:34:00 - [64] Assuming we did no more than 1 hac invention jobs a day, our datacores would never run out, but now it turns out that only 1 job in a whole week of jobs is going to see success most of the time, if we wanted to make any worthwhile amount of isk atall from invention, we'd have to do 7 hac invention attempts per day, not per week, that's how many jobs a giant corp would have to do if they wanted even 1 hac bpc invented daily, and that's shared between a lot of people. How was i to know that ccp would screw up the invention job success chance? Although it's not all that suprising actually...
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:34:00 - [65] What I thought, just needed it checked. Isnt it sad that they havent acknowleged the problem and said what they hope to do to fix it? Even a comment about it in a devblog that they normaly do this stuff in would have been appreciated... Common Jiekon, if you have time for this kind of jokes, why cant you reply abiut a concern many people have? Storm Thesis CEO
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:39:00 - [66] Originally by: Lady Noir Assuming we did no more than 1 hac invention jobs a day, our datacores would never run out, but now it turns out that only 1 job in a whole week of jobs is going to see success most of the time, if we wanted to make any worthwhile amount of isk atall from invention, we'd have to do 7 hac invention attempts per day, not per week, that's how many jobs a giant corp would have to do if they wanted even 1 hac bpc invented daily, and that's shared between a lot of people. Doesn't the amount of interfaces you have limit the number of invention jobs you can do per day?
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:41:00 - [67] Originally by: Kirjava What I thought, just needed it checked. Isnt it sad that they havent acknowleged the problem and said what they hope to do to fix it? Even a comment about it in a devblog that they normaly do this stuff in would have been appreciated... Common Jiekon, if you have time for this kind of jokes, why cant you reply abiut a concern many people have? Imagine you and your corp are camped after being wardecced in, say, Luminaere (I camped a pirate corp a while ago when I was with [C-O-F]). Now, magine you have someone in your corp who likes to talk to people on the forum very much, not only about technical issues and maybe roleplaying, but also has a loose mouth when it comes to internals and information with tactical / strategical value. Now... ask yourself, what would be your first order? Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:46:00 - [68] Most likely this would be exploited, give the person false information to share and set up a trap, or to keep all vital information away from him. Also, very well put. Storm Thesis CEO
Adipocere	Posted - 2006.12.26 22:42:00 - [69] Lady Noir, Please edit your post to include the specific ships, decryptors and datacores used. For those without the relevent decryptors, it would be nice to include the whole description from which you quote the word 'greatly' as well (heck, include the 'lesser' version too). We'll need the actual information to analyze the issue on an apples to apples basis, not just what you consider the salient points. Thanks for your time.
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.12.26 22:58:00 - [70] Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 26/12/2006 22:58:45 Originally by: Kirjava ... Common Jiekon, if you have time for this kind of jokes, why cant you reply abiut a concern many people have? So it was a joke? He doesn't like to be whipped?
Nate D Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours	Posted - 2006.12.26 23:00:00 - [71] Sooo... uh... how good were the T1 BPCs that you were using? -NÖ --- Voice Comms are Coming ...SoonÖ [Click]
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis	Posted - 2006.12.26 23:02:00 - [72] Originally by: Shameless Avenger Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 26/12/2006 22:58:45 Originally by: Kirjava ... Common Jiekon, if you have time for this kind of jokes, why cant you reply abiut a concern many people have? So it was a joke? He doesn't like to be whipped? Well its not my business what he gets up to in his spare time, my point was towards why hasnt the invention been addresed in some medium as of yet? Storm Thesis CEO
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.26 23:08:00 - [73] Originally by: Nate D Sooo... uh... how good were the T1 BPCs that you were using? -NÖ More to the point, could you post the exact items used, the ME/PE of the BPC, etc used? Raptor and Ares Fix
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.12.26 23:18:00 - [74] Does the Quality of the BPC used affects the outcome?
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.27 00:28:00 - [75] Originally by: Lady Noir Edited by: Lady Noir on 26/12/2006 14:29:51 For our first invention test, we did 5 hac invention jobs, we have encryption skills at level 5, starship engineering and mechanical engineering at level 5, we have been using the T1 version of the ship. So we started 5 HAC invention jobs, using one of each decryptor type, three jobs failed, the other two worked but resulted in only 1 run copies of the hac bpc. We just finished 8 more invention jobs, this time we used assault frigates. For the first 4 we used the decryptor which gives the best possible chance at success of an invention job. For the last 4 jobs we used the decryptor type that claims to multiply the runs of the output T2 bpc "greatly" The first 4 jobs all failed, nice waste of time and effort there, those were using the supposedly "increases probability of a successful invention job to the best possible chance" decryptors. Best chance of success? They ALL failed! Out of the final 4 jobs, 3 failed, 1 succeeded, we got a -8 me -3 pe 1 run bpc of an assault frigate. WTF? This was using the decryptor that supposedly multiplies the runs of the output bpc "greatly". Overall, 7 out of 8 jobs failed. We got a 1 run bpc out of the one that succeeded, and that was using a decryptor that supposedly multiplies the number of runs of the T2 bpc greatly, yeah right to that. What a complete and utter waste of time, lucky we tested using assualt frigates this time and not HAC's huh? We will continue to do testing but results take time as invention jobs take time to complete, don't expect anything groundbreaking tbh. CCP mesed up with invention, BIG TIME! Incase it hasn't been said, I'd like to point out you were bashing us in another thread for telling you invention was screwed up. Now you know it's not just item collections for it that is useless. Still think you're going to be making all those billions? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.27 00:46:00 - [76] Originally by: Lady Noir Originally by: Tharrn But datacores are free you said! Yes, well done, they are free, but 160 datacores takes a long time to get. A very long time. They are not free. when you realize that time = money, is not just a random saying, Tharrn and others are going to stop making fun of you for it... Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.27 00:48:00 - [77] Originally by: Lisento Slaven I'd rather see less T2 equipment on the field in general. Everyone and anyone flies around in T2 this and T2 that. What are the elites supposed to fly in? Officer fitted faction ships? /me points at people like Farjung. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.27 00:49:00 - [78] Originally by: Lady Noir Edited by: Lady Noir on 26/12/2006 17:04:50 Edited by: Lady Noir on 26/12/2006 16:55:28 Originally by: Chenlab Laaaawl, i had 8 attempts but only got 1 bpc, maybe u should be greatful for that? maybe u should just give up eve all together? Why would i give up on EVE? Do you think we became the first to own a Ship data interface by being poor? lol! think for a second, you might get results. You seem mighty confident that you were the first. The loudest yes, but you have now way of knowing if you were the first. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.27 01:00:00 - [79] Originally by: Kirjava Originally by: Shameless Avenger Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 26/12/2006 22:58:45 Originally by: Kirjava ... Common Jiekon, if you have time for this kind of jokes, why cant you reply abiut a concern many people have? So it was a joke? He doesn't like to be whipped? Well its not my business what he gets up to in his spare time, my point was towards why hasnt the invention been addresed in some medium as of yet? Perhaps they'd rather fix the problem than talk to us about it? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Nathanial Victor	Posted - 2006.12.27 01:30:00 - [80] how to be Lady Noir in three steps: step 1: make thread about how invention should be difficult and not made ANY easier. how nothing is wrong with invention and how much isk you are going to make off it (be sure to argue w/ anyone that tries to talk sense into you and reply after every post!) step 2: realize invention is jacked up and begin to create new thread telling everyone about it (be sure to argue w/ anyone that tries to talk sense into you and reply after every post!) step 3: repeat step 2 until your fingers bleed. (AGAIN: be sure to argue w/ anyone that tries to talk sense into you and reply after every post!)
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.12.27 01:56:00 - [81] I bet that this thread will stand firm as a monument to irony and hybris. And yes indeed, i said "will stand", not "is standing".
Anonymous Coward Gallente Panopticon Citadel	Posted - 2006.12.27 03:04:00 - [82] Originally by: Nathanial Victor how to be Lady Noir in three steps: step 1: make thread about how invention should be difficult and not made ANY easier. how nothing is wrong with invention and how much isk you are going to make off it (be sure to argue w/ anyone that tries to talk sense into you and reply after every post!) step 2: realize invention is jacked up and begin to create new thread telling everyone about it (be sure to argue w/ anyone that tries to talk sense into you and reply after every post!) step 3: repeat step 2 until your fingers bleed. (AGAIN: be sure to argue w/ anyone that tries to talk sense into you and reply after every post!) Sounds about right. As to invention itself, it's too bad that so many CCP employees own T2 BPOs, it creates a real disincentive to fix the system.
Malibu Stacey Gallente Playboy Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.27 03:46:00 - [83] Edited by: Malibu Stacey on 27/12/2006 03:48:11 Originally by: Jas Dor Do you have actual knowledge that folks are using T2 BPO's to generate ISK to sell on E-Bay? If so CCP could be in a load of trouble. Some of the things that go on in this game, if taken for motives of real life profit, would be in violation of U.S. Federal RICO laws (also possibly various other anti money laundering and terrorist financing laws). In short if CCP knows of people making real world money off their game they need to STOP IT NOW. Diclaimer: I am an attorney in the U.S. Some of the alliance / e-bay stuff I see going on in EvE has me worried. CCP, if you have not already, get a good US law firm to look at EvE before your US assets (White Wolf) get seized. Please, I'm not joking here. We're talking about things like international money laundering, check into this before somebody has to look at Icelandic extradition laws, O.K. CCP is an Icelandic company with an office in the UK. The game server cluster is hosted in London AFAIK which is probably why they have the UK office. Little hint: US laws don't apply outside of the USA but then you knew that already since you're an "attorney". People can look at Icelandic extradition laws all they want but if the people accused of breaking your laws don't live in Iceland they'll be looking in the wrong place. The White Wolf merger has nothing to do with Eve Online as far as I am aware, it is to do with EVE: The Second Genesis, the collectible card game 'inspired' by EVE Online & the future development of an online game based in White Wolf's "World of Darkness" universe. Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne If you are serious, send a e-mail with some reference about the relevant laws to the Devs. I don't think they'd care very much. --- Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Tokra	Posted - 2006.12.27 03:59:00 - [84] Some of you must be really stupid. Lady Noir came here and posted all of the infos they gathered. All the work they have done and all the money they spend into it. And all this to inform you, to warn you, and to wake up CCP and show them that it is screwed. She could have say nothing. Notice it dont work but keep silence and let you run into the mess as well. I am thankfull at least, it saves me alot of time and work. Saying the Datainterface isnt hard to get sound a bit strange when i see what you have to do for it. I was hoping that invention made it possible for me to make some own T2 items, and dont have to buy them for this much money in the market. Or even to make a bit money with my useless RPs (sure, lotto. but chances to get a T2 BPO are still low, so i may end at all my RPs again without being able to spend them for a BPO). But after i first saw how expensive it will be to invent a BPC (Datacore wise) it was the first shock. Second the info that the Datainterface will be way to expensive for the common player. And now that the invention will fail this often that its total waste of time was the last nail. 3-6 month worth of RP points (for a single person with research in the right fields) just for the chance for one HAC BPC? And even worse. Its a single run BPC. No thx, than i will just go on with normal playing and keep buying my T2 stuff. Even with this prices it will be cheaper doing it this way.
TheFirstInquisitor	Posted - 2006.12.27 12:48:00 - [85] Originally by: Malibu Stacey Edited by: Malibu Stacey on 27/12/2006 03:48:11 Originally by: Jas Dor Do you have actual knowledge that folks are using T2 BPO's to generate ISK to sell on E-Bay? If so CCP could be in a load of trouble. Some of the things that go on in this game, if taken for motives of real life profit, would be in violation of U.S. Federal RICO laws (also possibly various other anti money laundering and terrorist financing laws). In short if CCP knows of people making real world money off their game they need to STOP IT NOW. Diclaimer: I am an attorney in the U.S. Some of the alliance / e-bay stuff I see going on in EvE has me worried. CCP, if you have not already, get a good US law firm to look at EvE before your US assets (White Wolf) get seized. Please, I'm not joking here. We're talking about things like international money laundering, check into this before somebody has to look at Icelandic extradition laws, O.K. CCP is an Icelandic company with an office in the UK. The game server cluster is hosted in London AFAIK which is probably why they have the UK office. Little hint: US laws don't apply outside of the USA but then you knew that already since you're an "attorney". People can look at Icelandic extradition laws all they want but if the people accused of breaking your laws don't live in Iceland they'll be looking in the wrong place. The White Wolf merger has nothing to do with Eve Online as far as I am aware, it is to do with EVE: The Second Genesis, the collectible card game 'inspired' by EVE Online & the future development of an online game based in White Wolf's "World of Darkness" universe. Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne If you are serious, send a e-mail with some reference about the relevant laws to the Devs. I don't think they'd care very much. Very True. And Jas, please brush up on EU laws and a little background on the "Natwest 3" from the UK, you will notice a lot of resentment / concern over the lack of the USA law rattifying the extradition treaty that UK has already sighned. Note to all, What I say may be infact of a more humorous tone than comes accross.
Shabesa	Posted - 2006.12.27 13:52:00 - [86] Originally by: Tharrn EVE has been largely a 'no farming' game so far - no one ever HAD to farm to make a certain aspect of the game available. That has changed with invention, and it is a step in the totally wrong direction in my opinion. Yea well, I heard Serenity wasn't doing too good.
Chochko KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.27 14:32:00 - [87] Sorry for this - may be i`ll get a warning but.... i need to say what i think. Lady Noir - You are absolute moron and idiot. Week before you were trying to convince us that Invention is OK, than you dont have t2 BPO. Now You try to convince us that invention is NOT OK and you HAVE couple of HIGH profit t2 BPO`s. There are special medical centers which treat retards like you with care. Plz ask someone to bring you there because i`m sure that you will be unable to find the way. -------------------------------------------
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.12.27 14:46:00 - [88] Its standard practice to heavily prenerf anything new. Im sure invention will have hte kinks worked out soon. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
KIAEddZ Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.27 14:50:00 - [89] Lady Noir is a liar. Full stop. Proven in earlier threads, I perosnally wouldnt believe a bloody word he says. As for invention, its very very broken, and in fact is totally uselss. Not enough BPCs BPCs ridiculously hard to create Results from invention are not financially viable KIA EVE Home
subvert	Posted - 2006.12.27 14:59:00 - [90] I think everyone agrees atm that invention is useless in its current form

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