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Lord WarATron
Amarr Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.27 15:12:00 -
[91]
The policy of prenerf is a intresting one.
If veldspar was released today prenerfed, it would recycle a batch into 1 trit. Then you would have forum warriors saying that 1 trit is fine for its purpose, and that they should be happy as it is "free" --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Mirirar
Caldari Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.12.28 02:47:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Mirirar on 28/12/2006 02:47:23 LadyNoir/KiaEddz - have you tried using "Installation Guides" (greatly increases chance of success) or "Interface Alignments" (greatly increase number of runs)?
They seem to do the trick..............
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.28 05:13:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Lady Noir on 28/12/2006 05:14:33
Originally by: Mirirar Edited by: Mirirar on 28/12/2006 02:47:23 LadyNoir/KiaEddz - have you tried using "Installation Guides" (greatly increases chance of success) or "Interface Alignments" (greatly increase number of runs)?
They seem to do the trick..............
Caldari decryptors don't work on gallente jobs, but i have tried every serpentis decryptor many times. You could you please elaborate a bit?
If you really ARE doing invention, i'd have thought you would have realised that...
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Jas Dor
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Posted - 2006.12.28 05:38:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Malibu Stacey Edited by: Malibu Stacey on 27/12/2006 03:48:11
Originally by: Jas Dor Do you have actual knowledge that folks are using T2 BPO's to generate ISK to sell on E-Bay? If so CCP could be in a load of trouble. Some of the things that go on in this game, if taken for motives of real life profit, would be in violation of U.S. Federal RICO laws (also possibly various other anti money laundering and terrorist financing laws). In short if CCP knows of people making real world money off their game they need to STOP IT NOW.
Diclaimer: I am an attorney in the U.S. Some of the alliance / e-bay stuff I see going on in EvE has me worried. CCP, if you have not already, get a good US law firm to look at EvE before your US assets (White Wolf) get seized. Please, I'm not joking here. We're talking about things like international money laundering, check into this before somebody has to look at Icelandic extradition laws, O.K.
CCP is an Icelandic company with an office in the UK. The game server cluster is hosted in London AFAIK which is probably why they have the UK office.
Little hint: US laws don't apply outside of the USA but then you knew that already since you're an "attorney". People can look at Icelandic extradition laws all they want but if the people accused of breaking your laws don't live in Iceland they'll be looking in the wrong place.
The White Wolf merger has nothing to do with Eve Online as far as I am aware, it is to do with EVE: The Second Genesis, the collectible card game 'inspired' by EVE Online & the future development of an online game based in White Wolf's "World of Darkness" universe.
Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne If you are serious, send a e-mail with some reference about the relevant laws to the Devs.
I don't think they'd care very much.
Hum I should but I don't want to be seen as representing CCP for malpractice reasons (saying that CCP should consult an attorney is unlikely to give rise to an attorney client relationship, privately quoting statute and verse to them might). But yes, off the top of my head I can think of several US financial laws that openly allowing E-Bay selling of in game items might violate.
As to what the US government can do to CCP, well for starters add them to the SDN (specially designated nationals) list which would stop most major credit card companies from processing payments to CCP.
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Draqun
Caldari Wo Zhi Dao Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.28 07:11:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Draqun on 28/12/2006 07:11:37
Originally by: Xaildaine
Worse still is the fact that it seems that CCP are quite happy with it as is.. A blog from them would go a long way imo
Yes they are quite happy with it as is
you see they also play the game, they knew the rest of us would sit their and churn out our RP into this and then a few days latter they would toss in more T2 into the lottory.
that way they can sit back and say Hey! we were fair about it since we use the lottory! Never mind that they bascialy knew in advance that they would be redoing the lottory, and thus with their bigger RP pool from NOT playing the "Invention Scam" they stand a better chance at nailing each BP.
Same basicaly goes for the new Exploration/kill Mission complexes, they knew they would be pre-nerfed as far as the payout for it, so they sit back, let others go for it and lose (in many cases) a lot of ships for basicaly crap rewards.
Its a CCPvP game.
Get over it.
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First rule of playing EVE online If your too paranoid to play Eve
your not paranoid enough to play Eve |
SSandra
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Posted - 2006.12.28 07:23:00 -
[96]
I am severely upset with EVERYTHING I have seen and heard about invention so far. And to think I used to be excited about it. Pfft!
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MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.12.28 07:48:00 -
[97]
Invention is a joke
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Kirjava
Caldari Storm Thesis
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Posted - 2006.12.28 11:32:00 -
[98]
Originally by: MECTO Invention is a joke It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Invention, yes is a joke. Rokh, Drake and other fun new BPO that can be exploited by building large stocks of trit and using cheap Zynd, is also a joke.
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Storm Thesis CEO |
Reiisha
Satal's Legion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.28 12:22:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Lady Noir
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think its by design. If you could easily invent something, the market would be flooded with new ships, removing any profit margin the sellers have today. So they probably intentionally made it quite difficult to make sure that successful inventions are rare, in order to not kill the t2 economy completely. At least it sounds logical to me.
I can understand that its not fun though... spending all that time for something chance based, and then failing at it with no option to get time/stuff back.
If it is by design to fail 7 out of 8 times with invention then they should just remove invention now and free up some server load, as it currently stands nobody is going to invent anything.
With your chances of getting a bpc being above 15%, that's actually rather good. The profit margin is still there, but somewhat less than with a bpo, as it should be.
EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2006.12.28 12:33:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Lady Noir
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think its by design. If you could easily invent something, the market would be flooded with new ships, removing any profit margin the sellers have today. So they probably intentionally made it quite difficult to make sure that successful inventions are rare, in order to not kill the t2 economy completely. At least it sounds logical to me.
I can understand that its not fun though... spending all that time for something chance based, and then failing at it with no option to get time/stuff back.
If it is by design to fail 7 out of 8 times with invention then they should just remove invention now and free up some server load, as it currently stands nobody is going to invent anything.
With your chances of getting a bpc being above 15%, that's actually rather good. The profit margin is still there, but somewhat less than with a bpo, as it should be.
16 datacores per hac invention job, 8 tries to get one success, so it should cost 100k starship RP and 30k+ mechanical engineering RP to make a 1 run copy of a HAC? I'd rather hold out for a T2 bpo thanks.
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TanSpectra
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Posted - 2006.12.28 12:50:00 -
[101]
Lol vast fortunes to be made from invention.
Even if it worked that would not be true the limitting factor being the datacores used in invention.
Just about everyone gets a starship agent and you get 3 time the rp's so those cores are going to be common, but mech engineering lol there about 20M allready and as ppl realize they are rare the price is going to go up.
So how much does it cost to invent a AF 2 starship cores and 2 mech eng cores, about 46M and you can sell it for around 20M gosh.
So even if invention worked perfectly (every time) and somehow you could get up to say 3 run bpc's ocassionly, you still would not make your fortune.
Yeah fix invention its not going to unbalance the game, T2 bpos may lead to mega isk but inventions never going to, all people can make is a modest profit.
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Pinpisa Jormao
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Posted - 2006.12.29 11:34:00 -
[102]
define:invention "An act of creativity that results in a device, process, or technique novel enough to produce a significant change in the application of technology."
Per the definition of invention, the fix is to simply make the invention success rate much smaller and when you finally do succeed, you get a BPO, not BPC.
There is nothing in the definition of invention that says that you forget what you invented soon after (forgetting meaning getting a BPC).
It might be reasonable to limit this in a way that the BPO gained from invention will only be usable by the char who invented it. eg. no selling of invented BPOs. |
Kirjava
Caldari Storm Thesis
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Posted - 2006.12.29 11:54:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Pinpisa Jormao define:invention "An act of creativity that results in a device, process, or technique novel enough to produce a significant change in the application of technology."
Per the definition of invention, the fix is to simply make the invention success rate much smaller and when you finally do succeed, you get a BPO, not BPC.
There is nothing in the definition of invention that says that you forget what you invented soon after (forgetting meaning getting a BPC).
It might be reasonable to limit this in a way that the BPO gained from invention will only be usable by the char who invented it. eg. no selling of invented BPOs.
It has been mentioned numerous times that the system of invention would suggest BPO production due to the low risk and high input required. However, they should be low ME level and low PE to compensate, make them take a while to research up to full level (zero). But making them only usable by those who made them, that isnt in the ethos of Eve methinks.
Storm Thesis CEO |
Winters Chill
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2006.12.29 13:35:00 -
[104]
Simple,
CCP have stated several times that they release things pre nerfed and buff as required.
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Riggwelter
Caldari Drinkers Appreciation Soiciety
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Posted - 2006.12.29 13:51:00 -
[105]
My own personal opinion here is that your looking about doing this the wrong way.
Ive spent 2 days since christmas scanning in 0.0 for complexs so far ive found about 10.
From some of these complex the following have been obtained.
Datacores 1 or 5 of three differnt types A BPC for Esoteric Data Interface and an Interface Alignment Chart.
Only thing im missing to start iventing is the parts to Make the interface and a well researched BPC. Whats it cost me so far a lot of probes some time and a lot of fun.
I still have all my RP with my empire agents and intend to keep it that way.
Before you go asking for changes recognise that cashing in RP is not the only way to get the Datacores.
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TiraX
Caldari FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.29 14:46:00 -
[106]
What about modules, have anyone tried to invent those?
Do they require the same amount of rp as ships? Otherwise their might be profit in those. And ccp will probably buff iventions further on, think about what would happend if they made it too good. I could break the current market, and I don't think the devs has any plans for this until tech 3. ----
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.12.29 15:32:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Riggwelter My own personal opinion here is that your looking about doing this the wrong way.
Ive spent 2 days since christmas scanning in 0.0 for complexs so far ive found about 10.
From some of these complex the following have been obtained.
Datacores 1 or 5 of three differnt types A BPC for Esoteric Data Interface and an Interface Alignment Chart.
Only thing im missing to start iventing is the parts to Make the interface and a well researched BPC. Whats it cost me so far a lot of probes some time and a lot of fun.
I still have all my RP with my empire agents and intend to keep it that way.
Before you go asking for changes recognise that cashing in RP is not the only way to get the Datacores.
If you need to spend 2 days to acquire a handful of datacores, this might be a nice gimmick, but it can never be a decent supply.
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Trak Cranker
Feral Tendency Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.29 16:41:00 -
[108]
Anyone saying that any item in Eve is free is by nature excempt from being taken seriously when discussing the economics of the game. Doing it over several threads thankfully only serves as a better warning sign for the rest of us.
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Magnus Card
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.29 17:10:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Lady Noir
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Lady Noir
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think its by design. If you could easily invent something, the market would be flooded with new ships, removing any profit margin the sellers have today. So they probably intentionally made it quite difficult to make sure that successful inventions are rare, in order to not kill the t2 economy completely. At least it sounds logical to me.
I can understand that its not fun though... spending all that time for something chance based, and then failing at it with no option to get time/stuff back.
If it is by design to fail 7 out of 8 times with invention then they should just remove invention now and free up some server load, as it currently stands nobody is going to invent anything.
With your chances of getting a bpc being above 15%, that's actually rather good. The profit margin is still there, but somewhat less than with a bpo, as it should be.
16 datacores per hac invention job, 8 tries to get one success, so it should cost 100k starship RP and 30k+ mechanical engineering RP to make a 1 run copy of a HAC? I'd rather hold out for a T2 bpo thanks.
Last time I checked datacores sell for 5-10 mil ISK or so. 160 datacores = 800 mil -1.6 Bil ISK. Not exactly a good profit margin when the BPC you get is only 1 run and sells for only a few hundred million ISK.
Still rockin as a ! |
Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar Provenance.
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Posted - 2006.12.29 17:32:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Vidar Kentoran on 29/12/2006 17:34:10
Originally by: "Jas Dor" legal nonsense
Are you kidding me? Damn, I've seen some insanity on mmog boards before, but I'd have to say that you take the cake. You're aware that RMT(real money trade) takes place in EVERY SINGLE MMORPG ON THE MARKET, right?
You're also aware that it occurs in much larger volume in completely US (as well as korean-based) MMOGs that exceed EVE's subscriber base by orders of magnitude(hi2u, WoW), also, right?
Furthermore, you're aware that there exist and have existed MMOGs like Project Entropia and Second Life where RMT is not only condoned, but it is the very essence of how the game is played? There are people documented by the media who have made hundreds of thousands of dollars in Second Life, and heck, I believe there was a story about its first millionaire recently.
Yet I have never heard a single peep out of a credible legal source about anything you're talking about, and there are NUMEROUS actually intelligent legal people watching MMOGs due to the tax situations that may occur in the future.
money laundering, lol, I say this kindly, since you're obviously a troll: STFU and leave this thread alone. The idea that CCP has anything to worry about regarding US money laundering laws is a blatant and absurd joke, so far from reality I can't imagine anyone with even a slight inkling of legal competence would do anything but laugh out loud at the very mention of it.
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Rman
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Posted - 2006.12.29 17:38:00 -
[111]
7 out of 8 is pretty good. 7 out of 1000 is pretty bad.
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Crowbiwan
Caldari N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.29 20:52:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Rman 7 out of 8 is pretty good. 7 out of 1000 is pretty bad.
read more carefully. she was talking about failures not succeses. 7 failures out of 8 atempts. thats not good by any standard
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Kirjava
Caldari Storm Thesis
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Posted - 2006.12.30 14:30:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Crowbiwan
Originally by: Rman 7 out of 8 is pretty good. 7 out of 1000 is pretty bad.
read more carefully. she was talking about failures not succeses. 7 failures out of 8 atempts. thats not good by any standard
Does this mean that there are more interfaces dropping more often now? Also, what are the building reuirements now, have they gone down at all?
Storm Thesis CEO |
Sunaria
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Posted - 2006.12.30 23:35:00 -
[114]
hey I found the mimatar tuner interface , the drops will become more common if you ask me
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TheNecromancer
Caldari The Royal Order The Scandinavian Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.31 13:41:00 -
[115]
I vote for delete invention and free server resources.
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ForceMajeure
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Posted - 2006.12.31 14:56:00 -
[116]
Being an Engineer IRL....
When we publish blueprints and copy them the copies never disappear magically when the powerplant is built...
Anyway, after reading all 4 pages of this there are two large hurdles.
1. The cost/time to build the interface.
2. The value of datacores in RPs vs the profit/success of invention.
Alone either one would be fine.
Having the interfaces be very difficult to build will keep only allow the most dedicated people/corps to obtain them. This would ensure that the t2 Market would maintain a healthy profit margin.
Having the datacores be "expensive" in terms of opportunity cost, and time with a research agent, when coupled with low success rates makes invention relativly unprofitable.
So, IMO invention should go one of three ways:
1. Data Interfaces become easier to obtain, and the cost of datacores/success rate of BPCs reamains un touched. Allowing a large group of players to perform invention, but in such a way that at a given price it would be cheaper or easier to just buy the T2.
2. Data Interfaces remain difficult to obtain, but the RP cost of datacores are reduced or the datacore required for invention is reduced. The BPC success rate remains unchanged. Allows a smaller group of players to invent, but makes it slightly more profitable than now as to significantly reduce (not eliminate) the insane T2 profits.
3. Data Interfaces remain difficult to obtain, Datacore remain "expensive", and the BPC success rate is improved. Similiar to #2 allows a small group to invent, but makes it slightly more profitable than now as to significantly reduce (not eliminate) the insane T2 profits.
I personally feel that #1 is the best option. It allows all players the opportunity to invent. Datacores are valuable and in demand, and thus people will cash-in RPs to sell them The "cost" of invention/building the T2 items would be high enough to ensure the T2 BPO holders still make more than they could ever spend.
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