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Noisrevbus
32
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Posted - 2011.12.12 19:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lykouleon wrote:Anny Jackson wrote:... What else? Nano hurricane is pants compared to a Vaga or a cynabal. Sniper HAC gangs are still viable, fun, and can't be outclassed by a sniper BC gang. Nano HAC gangs will kicks the pants out of a nano BC gang any day of the week if the FC isn't a complete rere. AB HAC gangs will kick a BC gang to the curb. The only reason the Hurricane and Drake are preferable to a HAC currently is that pilots can easily roll their heads across their F1-F8 keys without getting too much drool on their keyboards. And they're cheaper when they get killed due to pilot error. A good HAC pilot actually needs to have an IQ above that of a snail.
You're both right and wrong - yet more importantly - you are onto something very interesting.
In regard to Sniper HAC's, you're wrong. The new tier 3 BC are not only as mobile and as tanky with similar reach and tracking, they also do more than twice the DPS for only a partial drawback in lock-time at a quarter of the price.
In regard to the rest you are quite on key, and you bring up some examples of what i hinted about in my post above when i was saying i was largely content with the actual performance balance prior to the introduction of tier 3 BC.
Now, i don't want to belittle anyone but we need to put it in a related terminology - and this is where it get interesting, so alllow me some slack with the crude examples for sake of clarity. The way "Darkside Drakes" came to popularity reminisce of the general organisation philosophy of Goonswarm. Combine retainers with peasants or shepards with sheep (and then grow size of patty or flock). You mention Nano HAC and overall their balance to BC is quite alright. I wouldn't go as far as to call them better, but they have features you can use to your advantage.
What presents issues for the HAC's isn't the Drakes either (so from a pure balance perspective it's not relatively overpowered), it's rather the supporting scaffold of Logi and Recon and what the decent organisation of numbers do when the BC's volume will push the HAC's off grid. The problem is that with the other important relative, the ISK-risk relative, a risk-free meaningless PvP will always feed the numerical advantage.
It may seem harsh, but forcing the individual player into a bounce-back downtime will limit the effect and potency of numbers. That larger will always have more and more will always be better is a fair aspect of an MMO, but just as how this is natural the natural "cumber of number" must also be in effect. This has been discussed over and over in other topics (such as cynos and jump-networks).
Changes to meaningless PvP will not remove numerical advantage but it will contain it to tolerable levels (it doesn't need crutches) and see trend that allow more emergent PvP. You would hope CCP had realized by now that feeding the unwilling do not lead to emergent gameplay, wether we talk about PvP-participation, PvE, living in nullsec or something else. It leads to facade involvement which is not fun for anyone and errupts into stalemate.
It's gotten to a point where you'd only gank the support and disengage on many occassions because the BC are not even worth killing - or at the very least - the BC are not worth the prolonged and reciprocal risk of trying to kill.
You could see similar issues with the Armor HAC's, but they didn't really occur until you hit larger fleet sizes at the time when almost anything was simply countered with "more Drakes". Some trends have changed in that regard, but it's still festering.
It leads to pointless fights, boring for everyone - until someone horns together the supercapital blob to threaten infrastructure, then the PvP cease being relatively risk-free. |
Anny Jackson
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.12.13 11:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lykouleon wrote:Anny Jackson wrote:... What else? Nano hurricane is pants compared to a Vaga or a cynabal. Sniper HAC gangs are still viable, fun, and can't be outclassed by a sniper BC gang. Nano HAC gangs will kicks the pants out of a nano BC gang any day of the week if the FC isn't a complete rere. AB HAC gangs will kick a BC gang to the curb. The only reason the Hurricane and Drake are preferable to a HAC currently is that pilots can easily roll their heads across their F1-F8 keys without getting too much drool on their keyboards. And they're cheaper when they get killed due to pilot error. A good HAC pilot actually needs to have an IQ above that of a snail.
Hehe, what Vaga gang can do that hurricanes can't for 5 times less isks and with 20% better tank and 30% better dps? I ain't counting 2 neutros, 4 times better capa management and like... Yeah, I understand it perhaps has better chances to run away. But another question is should I even care to lose my as cheap as a pair of used condoms nano-canes... |
Daedalus Arcova
Havoc Violence and Chaos
229
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Posted - 2011.12.13 12:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Anny Jackson wrote:Hehe, what Vaga gang can do that hurricanes can't for 5 times less isks and with 20% better tank and 30% better dps? I ain't counting 2 neutros, 4 times better capa management and like... Yeah, I understand it perhaps has better chances to run away. But another question is should I even care to lose my as cheap as a pair of used condoms nano-canes...
You are clearly too stupid to fly HACs. Best to stick to your BCs, since that is all you seem to understand. They are the Troglodyte's tool of choice after all. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
253
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
Anny Jackson wrote:
Hehe, what Vaga gang can do that hurricanes can't for 5 times less isks and with 20% better tank and 30% better dps? I ain't counting 2 neutros, 4 times better capa management and like... Yeah, I understand it perhaps has better chances to run away. But another question is should I even care to lose my as cheap as a pair of used condoms nano-canes...
You literally do not understand how this game is designed at all do you?
Does the word "tradeoffs" mean anything to you?
Also, please learn to English. |
Anny Jackson
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.12.14 09:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Anny Jackson wrote:
Hehe, what Vaga gang can do that hurricanes can't for 5 times less isks and with 20% better tank and 30% better dps? I ain't counting 2 neutros, 4 times better capa management and like... Yeah, I understand it perhaps has better chances to run away. But another question is should I even care to lose my as cheap as a pair of used condoms nano-canes...
You literally do not understand how this game is designed at all do you? Does the word "tradeoffs" mean anything to you? Also, please learn to English.
Hehe, yeah, sure nothing to answer. Who doubts... |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
257
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
Anny Jackson wrote:
Hehe, yeah, sure nothing to answer. Who doubts...
Quote:Also, please learn to English.
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Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
52
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
Quote:Hehe, what Vaga gang can do that hurricanes can't 2.7km/s.
Quote:But another question is should I even care to lose my as cheap as a pair of used condoms nano-canes... Because there's not much PVP you can do in a pod.
You actually make yourself look more ignorant with every single post, I'm impressed. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
138
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Posted - 2011.12.14 14:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:
You're both right and wrong - yet more importantly - you are onto something very interesting.
In regard to Sniper HAC's, you're wrong. The new tier 3 BC are not only as mobile and as tanky with similar reach and tracking, they also do more than twice the DPS for only a partial drawback in lock-time at a quarter of the price.
Explain please? |
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