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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1395
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Posted - 2015.10.16 16:08:23 -
[1] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:OK, I've calmed down slightly. Let's give you guys some specific feedback so that you understand what a ******* terrible idea this is.
I have an alt I bought on the bazaar years ago. He has 82 million SP. Much of it is focused on mining and reprocessing, skills I haven't used in years. As long as I'm a whale...
Step 1: Pump a ton of Aurum into CCP to buy 84 Transneural Skill Extractors. Step 2: Use them to create 84 Transneural Skill Packets for a total of 42 million SP. Step 3: Consume 25 of them myself to bring myself to 50 million SP, dumping my useless SP and focusing this alt on incursion-running. Step 4: Sell 59 Transneural Skill Packets on the market, making it more or less unnecessary for me to actually run incursions for a while since 59 of these are going to be worth a ton of ISK.
And that doesn't even get into the matter of using those 84 Packets to more or less instantly jump a new character from 0 to 40 million SP. Character ages and birth dates will become completely meaningless.
Again, I can do these things as long as I'm a whale and pump a ton of money into CCP for the 84 Transneural Skill Extractors.
Am I missing anything here? Who in God's name thought this was a good idea? Can we sell them to Riot?
Good points.
To answer your question a ccp that wants to make money thought this was a good idea. From what you describe that is what would happen - at least in the short term.
I think the long term problem with what you describe still needs to be stated. the fact that character ages are meaningless is not that big of a deal imo.
I think I would say the problem with this is people would no longer need any attachment to their character. You could always just start a new character and who knows who is who?
In a game like eve that relies on relationships that might be a real problem.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1395
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:10:28 -
[2] - Quote
The dev blog starts out talking about shortcomings of the character bazaar due to no name changes. Why don't you just fix that problem?
"As you can see, this design favors skill transfers for younger characters and makes them very inefficient for older characters. WeGÇÖve designed it this way so that we protect the prestige associated with long commitment to a single character."
I am not sure of the logic here. It just seems like you are sticking it to loyal customers. (why do vets get bitter?) The prestige of an older player has little to do with how many skillpoints they have since you normally only train one character per account.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1396
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Posted - 2015.10.16 21:10:59 -
[3] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:People have either genuinely forgotten just how bad the first year of play is, or they're deluded. I haven't. How is giving new players the expectation of making a significant down payment on what is to all appearances a boring, grindy game going to help retention?
First this would be an additional *option* not a requirement.
What is a significant down payment? They haven't really given the costs yet. Eve is a fairly inexpensive hobby. Maybe for children it is not, but do we really need more children in eve?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1396
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Posted - 2015.10.16 22:05:57 -
[4] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Cearain wrote:First this would be an additional *option* not a requirement. Paying for your account with PLEX instead of $ is an option, not a requirement, but I still find myself trying to disabuse new players of the notion that they ought to be grinding isk to "play for free".
Do you want to remove the *option* to play for free so you won't have to tell new player not to try that? I'm not sure of your point.
beakerax wrote:Cearain wrote: What is a significant down payment? They haven't really given the costs yet.
They don't need to. Whether or not you agree that game time and sp are equivalent (I don't), you should be able to work out an approximate exchange rate.
I am not sure how this will work really. It would have to be somewhat less than the cost of training 2 characters at once I would think because you are getting less sp than a month training. Plus they are diminishing what you get.
In the end I am not sure what the big deal is. Given the high cost of everything in the aurum store I doubt many people will use this. But if CCP wants to make some extra money it seems reasonable.
I do however think it is obnoxious to give loyal players who presumably have more skillpoints a worse deal then the newer crowd. Are they *trying* to get vets to unsub?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1396
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Posted - 2015.10.16 22:24:44 -
[5] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Cearain wrote:Do you want to remove the *option* to play for free so you won't have to tell new player not to try that? I'm not sure of your point. My point is that these ~options~ can and will make new players form unrealistic goals which only end up cutting into their enjoyment of the game. Quote:I am not sure how this will work really. It would have to be somewhat less than the cost of training 2 characters at once I would think because you are getting less sp than a month training. Plus they are diminishing what you get. In this system someone is still using gametime to train the sp being sold on the market. Even if the skill extractor was free, a month's worth of training can't cost any less than a month's worth of gametime.
As to your first point, don't you think your being a bit paternalistic. I mean it seems to point to the question of whether eve is for children of for big boys and girls.
If people have more time then money then go ahead and earn the plex in game. If people have more money then time then pay for a plex to buy your ships. I don't see either as a problem.
As for your second point yes. That is if the extractor was free I would assume you are correct. But it won't be free. So its unclear how much this will even be used. You will pay a premium not to have to wait. I don't see the big deal.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1396
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Posted - 2015.10.17 01:00:18 -
[6] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Enjoy it while you can cause this game isn't gonna be around that much longer for you to enjoy the cheap gains from this disastrous mistake made by CCP. It's like we haven't heard this exact statement a million times before. It`s like the player base did not shrink really.
It's illogical to blame the losses eve already suffered on a decision they haven't even made yet.
IMO this seems much easier to swallow than things like off grid booster alts. That is pay to win that decreases the enjoyment of the game because you need to drag an alt around while you are supposed to be having fun playing the game.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1397
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Posted - 2015.10.17 16:26:57 -
[7] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Cearain wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Enjoy it while you can cause this game isn't gonna be around that much longer for you to enjoy the cheap gains from this disastrous mistake made by CCP. It's like we haven't heard this exact statement a million times before. It`s like the player base did not shrink really. It's illogical to blame the losses eve already suffered on a decision they haven't even made yet. IMO this seems much easier to swallow than things like off grid booster alts. That is pay to win that decreases the enjoyment of the game because you need to drag an alt around while you are supposed to be having fun playing the game. You have to train that alt also, so it's not the same. Yes OGB is broken and has been around for years buts it's not game destroying.
OGB is far worse than what ccp is suggesting here.
No you do not have to train the alt you can already buy it.
It is pay to win because you have to pay for an additional account to support your main.
And it is worse because it actually makes the game less fun because you need to drag that alt around with you like a dead weight.
It is the absolute worst type of pay to win. Buying skill points is nothing compared to this. Most of the time training is to get to level 5 and that only gives about a 5% bonus the pay to win alt is like plus 35% in everything you need.
If you want to know why the numbers are decreasing look at the cancers that are actually living in the game instead of overreacting to this.
Again the loss of numbers we have seen can not be because of this proposal which hasn't even happened yet.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1397
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Posted - 2015.10.18 04:19:06 -
[8] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Chrome Veinss wrote:
Less alt accounts would turn this into a much better game, hopefully increasing non alt account subscriptions. I cant think of anything else that can improve the game substantially than getting rid of alts. Id wager that the single worst thing you can tell a newbie is something along the lines of "you need an alt to do x" or "you're **** if you dont have an alt". Unfortunately they're told this pretty much every day in between getting ganked by a player and his falcon alt and mining next to a player's 10 hulks.
So reduce the number of existing paying accounts while hoping you'll get more than enough new accounts to cover the loss. Remind to never invest in a business venture run by you.
I think you are being a bit short sighted. A game that is not immersion breaking by requiring several alts will appeal to a much larger group than one that is alts-online.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1397
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Posted - 2015.10.18 04:22:32 -
[9] - Quote
delete
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1397
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Posted - 2015.10.18 12:10:19 -
[10] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote: I sit in Rookie Help Chat and listen to new players trying to figure out how to play for free. How to earn that 1.2 bill within 30 days. Those types, will they stay if I tell them that not only is it unlikely but that they will have to pay extra to be decent at the game.
It would be an added option in the game not a requirement. They can still wait to train into ships and based on the costs in the Aurum store most will wait most of the time. A few may exercise this option, or buy a character. But this isn't changing much.
OGB is the sort of pay to win cancer that is costing eve subscriptions. That pay to win not only requires an additional monthly cost but it also makes the game less fun by requiring people to drag alts everywhere.
This stuff with skill points versus buying a character is not that big of a deal.
Mike Azariah wrote:Will new players coming in look and see the rich instaboosting themselves into better ships and leaving the normal subscription player behind in the dust?
The new subscription players have already been left in the dust by people who have subscribed longer. New players are not just competing against other new players. This is a single shard.
This would just give newer players an *option* to catch up with money instead of time. I think giving new players more *options* is good for new players. Generally I think giving players (new and old) options is good for them.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1398
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Posted - 2015.10.18 12:55:02 -
[11] - Quote
Delegate wrote:Cearain wrote:Mike Azariah wrote: I sit in Rookie Help Chat and listen to new players trying to figure out how to play for free. How to earn that 1.2 bill within 30 days. Those types, will they stay if I tell them that not only is it unlikely but that they will have to pay extra to be decent at the game.
It would be an added option in the game not a requirement. They can still wait to train into ships and based on the costs in the Aurum store most will wait most of the time. A few may exercise this option, or buy a character. But this isn't changing much. Actually it does change a lot in new player experience. After this, a player starting the game will be unable to compete not only with older players but also with those of his peers that bought SP. So he will receive a very clear message: first pay for the sub, then grid/pay for the ISK and finally pay for the progress (or be left behind). There is a major difference from character bazaar here. A player with say 2-4m SP isn't going to engage in activities targeted by a 30m SP char bough off the bazaar. But he will meet players of similar age that performs better than him, because, for example, they bought 1.2m SP in core skills. After this change retention in new subs will drop.
Every year the game has existed the new player has had to compete at a larger and larger skill point disadvantage. It is only right that ccp would give new players more options to deal with this disadvantage.
Eve has been around a long time. If you started when the game came out no one already had more skill points than you. When I started in 2009 there were more people who already had a leg up on me. Now there even more characters that have more skill points than a new player.
I do not understand you point about the bazarr. If new player A does not buy a character from the bazarr but player B does then player A will not be as competitive as player B.
Asking a new player to come up with the isk to buy an entirely new character is asking too much. But giving a new player the option to get some core skills is more reasonable. Assuming the price is reasonable.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1401
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Posted - 2015.10.18 15:59:27 -
[12] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:Cearain wrote:
Every year the game has existed the new player has had to compete at a larger and larger skill point disadvantage. It is only right that ccp would give new players more options to deal with this disadvantage.
This I agree with 100%, however paying more RL cash on top of a subscription to get enough SPs to compete is going to leave a nasty taste for a lot of new guys, that's how many will perceive this. Far better to remove learning implants and max attributes and scale down training time modifiers on core skills to compensate the ever growing distance towards end game stuffs. If CCP want to bring new guys into the game quicker they'd do this, if they just want a desperate cash grab, they skim brokerage fees for our unwanted SPs...
This will presumably allow new players to spend much less money (compared to the character bazzar) to get the skills they really want.
Removing learning implants is another way to go but it doesn't address the issue as directly (implants don't really help that much) and I think it would crush the already teetering lp stores. There are some other issues there.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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