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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
138
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Posted - 2015.10.17 00:26:09 -
[1] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:xttz wrote:Point of note that some posting here seem to have missed:
You're not buying skills for real money. Someone has to extract those skillpoints from another character first, then the fee allows the transfer. Kinda like we currently do to transfer whole characters already.
to be honest, that's exactly what it is. i have an account that only holds characters that require no further skilling for their purpose. i would start selling every single SP trained on this account on the day this goes live.
Enjoy it while you can cause this game isn't gonna be around that much longer for you to enjoy the cheap gains from this disastrous mistake made by CCP.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
138
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Posted - 2015.10.17 00:43:02 -
[2] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
So we agree that this will benefit the older players, and probably not the new players (as much).
I don't really think it will benefit any one demographic over another. Be it vets, newbs, PVPers, alts, gankers, cyno toons or any other one group. It'll just be a thing. Some will use it and some won't. And after an initial burst of activity, most won't, in my opinion. As I said before, I feel it will be used for the occasional top up. It'll always be cheaper to buy a character than it will be to add anything but the smallest amount of SP to an existing one. I can guarantee you that no character traders will ever take advantage of it. The margins are too tight as it is with transfer costs at 2.5 billion ISK. No one will be adding overpriced SP to a character they think they may be selling at some point. There is a possibility of buying crap characters and removing skills to tighten them up and make them more marketable, but that needs to wait until we see the actual costs before I'll say more on it. As for farming SP for sale. That will work in the case of having a fully trained character on an acct that will be subbed anyway. Just like we do now with characters. Characters built specifically for sale essentially for free as you need to be subbed anyway to keep using the main on that acct. But those with dreams of paying for accts simply to farm are going to find out how easy it is to take a huge loss in this game when you don't think things through. So, as I see it, no big game breaking disaster. Just another option that may or may not get used very often. Like many other things that were going to kill EVE and be abused to hell, it won't happen. People are inherently lazy and can't be bothered to figure out how to abuse stuff if it isn't handed to them. What people are good at is crying wolf for no good reason. There will be this little uproar and then a month after the plan is implemented everyone will forget about it and move on to the next thing to cry about. Won't be the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. As said, and as usual in here, much ado about nothing. Mr Epeen
I'm afraid your analysis is incorrect this time Mr. Cool (at least as far as I'm concern). Eve just won't be the same anymore when this garbage hits TQ. Players WILL find a way to take full advantage of this and this game will decay to the point of having no chance for a revival. When this hits TQ, the hourglass for eve existence will finally commence.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
140
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Posted - 2015.10.17 01:25:28 -
[3] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Enjoy it while you can cause this game isn't gonna be around that much longer for you to enjoy the cheap gains from this disastrous mistake made by CCP. It's like we haven't heard this exact statement a million times before.
And this time (the 1,000,001th time) it's real. Something like this acts as cancer. You won't notice the difference right away and in fact it would seem like the PO has skyrocketed once it hits TQ. But this burst in PO activity would only be temporary until the cancer begins to take effect. From then onward, Eve would begin to decay until it eventually becomes a corpse.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
141
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Posted - 2015.10.17 01:42:34 -
[4] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Enjoy it while you can cause this game isn't gonna be around that much longer for you to enjoy the cheap gains from this disastrous mistake made by CCP. It's like we haven't heard this exact statement a million times before. It`s like the player base did not shrink really. It's illogical to blame the losses eve already suffered on a decision they haven't even made yet. IMO this seems much easier to swallow than things like off grid booster alts. That is pay to win that decreases the enjoyment of the game because you need to drag an alt around while you are supposed to be having fun playing the game.
You have to train that alt also, so it's not the same. Yes OGB is broken and has been around for years buts it's not game destroying.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
141
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Posted - 2015.10.17 01:45:39 -
[5] - Quote
Kilcairdin wrote:After a bad experience with a pay to win game I joined Eve over a year ago because it was a subscription only game. I understand the bizarre was out there, but it is a limited resource, difficult to use and in place to limit out of game corruption. What is proposed is nothing less than a significant step toward pay to win and all the problems associated with that. My expectation is that this will drive more players away from Eve than it will attract over the long term. I have no interest in moving toward a pay to win game even though this scheme could help my 25 million skill point character with skill points. Just say no.
I agree completely. If CCP goes ahead with this scheme, then me and my 12 accounts will disappear from eve forever. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
142
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Posted - 2015.10.17 02:16:11 -
[6] - Quote
Joseph Dewald wrote:So what I'm hearing is that training is now almost worthless and instead I should be grinding for isk? Not a fan of this idea. If you really want to implement some sort of respec idea, make it so that you can't sell the sp and can only apply them to your own character.
Exactly what I thought this was at first until I went back for another re read. To my dumbfounded horror, it was the worst idea CCP has ever devised in the history of eve.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
142
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Posted - 2015.10.17 02:20:26 -
[7] - Quote
thebarry wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Kilcairdin wrote:After a bad experience with a pay to win game I joined Eve over a year ago because it was a subscription only game. I understand the bizarre was out there, but it is a limited resource, difficult to use and in place to limit out of game corruption. What is proposed is nothing less than a significant step toward pay to win and all the problems associated with that. My expectation is that this will drive more players away from Eve than it will attract over the long term. I have no interest in moving toward a pay to win game even though this scheme could help my 25 million skill point character with skill points. Just say no. I agree completely. If CCP goes ahead with this scheme, then me and my 12 accounts will disappear from eve forever. I'll have to add 12 accounts if this goes through, sup?
Then you and the 100 others that are left can have fun roaming null in Titans with no fear reprisal.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
144
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Posted - 2015.10.17 02:33:30 -
[8] - Quote
Karin Yang wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Kilcairdin wrote:After a bad experience with a pay to win game I joined Eve over a year ago because it was a subscription only game. I understand the bizarre was out there, but it is a limited resource, difficult to use and in place to limit out of game corruption. What is proposed is nothing less than a significant step toward pay to win and all the problems associated with that. My expectation is that this will drive more players away from Eve than it will attract over the long term. I have no interest in moving toward a pay to win game even though this scheme could help my 25 million skill point character with skill points. Just say no. I agree completely. If CCP goes ahead with this scheme, then me and my 12 accounts will disappear from eve forever. I think that encouraging people to play a game with 12 accounts is not the right thing to do.
I'm not, that's just me cause I like multi-boxing and having multiple options in case I make a mistake in my training. I've trained all my chars from the ground up, no short cuts. It was one of the greatest feature I liked about eve because if gave the alluring experience of watching your characters grow and mature. With the greatest feature of eve made into comedy, the game is starting to feel fake.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
145
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Posted - 2015.10.17 02:36:53 -
[9] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Then you and the 100 others that are left can have fun roaming null in Titans with no fear reprisal. You can't even post on your main, you tit. Why should anyone pay the slightest bit of attention to someone who sperges with a teacosy on their head as some sort of clever disguise?
THIS is one of my mains, you dimwit. Don't post anything like you know something that you don't.
It's sometimes better to just keep silent instead of posting rubbish and making yourself look stupid.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
145
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Posted - 2015.10.17 03:59:23 -
[10] - Quote
Leonardo Adami wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Kilcairdin wrote:After a bad experience with a pay to win game I joined Eve over a year ago because it was a subscription only game. I understand the bizarre was out there, but it is a limited resource, difficult to use and in place to limit out of game corruption. What is proposed is nothing less than a significant step toward pay to win and all the problems associated with that. My expectation is that this will drive more players away from Eve than it will attract over the long term. I have no interest in moving toward a pay to win game even though this scheme could help my 25 million skill point character with skill points. Just say no. I agree completely. If CCP goes ahead with this scheme, then me and my 12 accounts will disappear from eve forever. Good riddance to you. People like you need to quit. Contract all your stuff to me and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I don't like you either douchebag. The only thing I'll contract to you is my frozen corpse. I'll leave it for you in Dodixie. |
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
145
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Posted - 2015.10.17 07:22:02 -
[11] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Laodell wrote:A single CSM a majority does not make. i'm aware but even one supporting it means that the csm are not "universally against it" as you said.
Which means that CCP is longer functioning in unison and is becoming divided. Which is not good for other reasons. Hopefully the majority with eve best interest in mind would prevail and axe this cancerous idea become it manifest itself into the actually game. Or else Eve would slowly but surely die.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
152
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Posted - 2015.10.17 08:02:48 -
[12] - Quote
Laodell wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Maraner wrote:Maybe they should just put up a vote on it?
i'd rather they put up a legitimate reason why - as yet none of them apart from steve has. and even steve's reason is terrible. buying sp won't make players think "i need to spend more money" than the current system already does, where the only way to close the sp gap between themselves and established players is to buy a new character from the bazaar. I wonder what advantage Stark see's so clearly for himself that he would be pushing this so vehemently for so many 118 pages Dave Stark seems to be the village loud mouth that screams at everyone that whatever he thinks is a good idea has to be done. It's not a personal attack so much as pointing out his arguments should have not one whit more validity just because he's been repeating them over and over.
He's probably a Dev alt. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
153
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Posted - 2015.10.17 11:02:39 -
[13] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Anyway, in both cases the PLEX prices will skyrocket, since there will be a lot of players who are no longer interested in getting SP for a bunch of their alts and rather just farm packs for passive income. I will do it for sure if this hits TQ. unless the margins are 100% or better (which i seriously doubt) if you're doing it purely to make isk rather than offset the cost of having the account... you're better off just straight up selling plex. The point is not to make ISK. The point is if I have an account where I don't need anymore SP because it's perfectly focus trained for what it does I can just sell the accumulated SP as packs to lower the subscription costs. There are two possibilities here: - If I can sell them higher that what it takes to create the pack (PLEX + extractors) I can create a free account with zero effort. - If I have to sell lower that what it takes to create them all the people training while taking a break will make a better deal if they just cancel the subscription and buy some packs if they come back (Yes, there may be some space between the two possibilities depending on how expensive the extractors are.)
Plex cost 1.2 bill isk, this transneural package containing 2 mill SP is gonna sell for how much?
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
160
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Posted - 2015.10.18 02:08:33 -
[14] - Quote
Levi Belvar wrote:I wouldnt get your hopes up, its a company there has to be something in it for them to impliment a change that benefits both sides.
That would negate the need for a character bazaar and the freehold sale of skillpoints, depends if theyre in it for pure profit purposes only or they do actually listen to the client base.
I see, so it's the money CCP is making from Character Bazaar that's spawned this greed.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
161
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Posted - 2015.10.18 02:23:41 -
[15] - Quote
Revan Daedrus wrote:PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS, one of the most rewarding parts of eve is that you cannot grind or purchase your way to the top, when you get a new skill it hold meaning because it took you real time to achieve it. This thread should be titled pay to win because that is what this change will do. This will alienate every long term eve player and it will destroy one of EVEs most unique properties. I would go so far as to say that this will ruin the game at its very core. I beg of you, do not do this.
Greed is a terrible disease.
And it appears that CCP Devs (Dave Starks) has contracted it.
Bottom line is that CCP will do what CCP wants to do. And if the go ahead and incorporate this abominable feature, I and my numerous accounts will disappear from eve forever. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2015.10.18 02:29:29 -
[16] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:I see, so it's the money CCP is making from Character Bazaar that's spawned this greed. Hardly. More like us on the ground pointing out existing paths of monetization CCP can and should cash in on. Both to support the game and expand it. Sorry if your SP defines you, but if you really push the core playerbase who aren't self-centered imbeciles, they're probably willing to do just about anything to keep this game alive. Watching you flail about is not unrewarding in itself :)
You make it sound as if CCP doesn't have a choice but to do this. That if they don't do this, they would go bankrupt or something. But there are plenty of other ways CCP can go about doing this if they really insist on SP trading that doesn't involve killing the game at it's core.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2015.10.18 05:30:45 -
[17] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Sibyyl wrote: CSM folks who oppose the change, or anyone else who's against it.
Can you point me to a cogent argument not using subjective buzzwords like "pay to win" why this change is bad?
OK, I am still catching up, but you asked nicely. There have been a few constants in Eve. Real-time for skill training and industry was one of them. Oh you can buy the item/ship and jump ahead but someone played that real time price. Same goes for the Character Bazaar. You may not have paid the time but someone did, with plex or cold hard cash. So CCP is looking at replacing it and who loses? On the surface? Nobody. We strip older characters or farmed alts and use them to fuel the newer ones. No loss, just out with the old, supercharge the new. But that is the thing. 'Stripping the old' but do you honestly think most of the skill points will go to NEW players? That it will increase retention or just make more alts of the vets? Is an increase in subs really a good thing if a lot of them are brood mares existing only to have their brains harvested on a regular basis . . . full of +5's and never ever undocking into space? Will that give us more content? Or will it just be numbers on some ledger? Will new players coming in look and see the rich instaboosting themselves into better ships and leaving the normal subscription player behind in the dust? Would you play a game like that where it was obviously a game of haves and have-nots and you were probably one of the have-nots? Or would you pour your own money in and hope it was enough to keep up? I sit in Rookie Help Chat and listen to new players trying to figure out how to play for free. How to earn that 1.2 bill within 30 days. Those types, will they stay if I tell them that not only is it unlikely but that they will have to pay extra to be decent at the game. If they listen and do pay to be able to fly . . . say an incursion or a null rat ship . . . in the first week then they will be well on the road to playing for free, right? Since increased demand for those elusive PLEX will have no effect on the market. A lot of people are saying that this is fine since it will not effect them or maybe they can use it to rearrange their own skills, clean up that shameful mining V. I just hope they are very space rich or already used to paying subscriptions. I am in the latter category. I'll still be here but IF this goes through I will be a bit more bitter and somewhat disappointed with what the game has become. Pay to win? no, but what about Pay to keep up m
So has this already been decided? Or is it still being debated?
As it is, I'm just sitting here looking at the launcher window or the forums. I'm really starting to lose all my motivation to log in anymore.
Anyone know if Diablo 3 is any good? If not, can I get some recommendations?
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2015.10.18 06:27:15 -
[18] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Training system has not been bypassed by the character bazaar as someone HAD to train those chars. and they have to with the new system, too. Don ZOLA wrote:As people invested years of time, effort and money to be top1 in total skills, by allowing someone to buy that "title" for himself voids those efforts. i'm sorry but no. making a character before me and keeping an active subscription isn't "investing years of time effort ad money" it's simply knowing about the game before i did. it's like pretending you being 5 years older than me is somehow an achievement. also that's level of "achievement" (******* lol), is still retained. your character's DOB will adequately demonstrate that you started the game before me. you don't need more SP than me to show that. Don ZOLA wrote:Additional thing to take in consideration is the number of ship spinners. There are people who are subscribed and are logging in just because of the habit. They do not play much, mostly just chat and idle and even themselves cannot answer why they do not quit the game. Either because they are just bored with the game or not liking where the game is now or where it is heading/ With changing something important like this you can touch the nerve and get them to say "that`s it, screw you guys im out for real now". this system makes it hilariously easy for people like that to do it for free - they are one of the people who benefit from this system the most. suggesting they're the ones most likely to quit is something i find amusing and absurd at the same time. Don ZOLA wrote:Once again I will mention that something like this will not benefit many. ~1% of total players maybe. Let`s say that it is even 5% which would be highly exaggerated. You are changing fundamentals of your multi million dollars business, which will surely have impact on player base and without even being sure of the gain. Ie you know that you will have short term boom when it is implemented and older players fix their mistakes and after that the run rate will drop quite a lot. And potentially lost players could be much more than that. Not to mention that they will not just quit, hey will be unhappy customers who can spread the -buzz and stop some of potentially new players. And we can see by the shrinking player base that all those people who writes "i will quit because of this" obviously does it. So those are not empty threats.
In the end, one of the key mistakes being done here is not having "behavioralistic" understanding of their own players and their own game. Since I am limited with the number of the characters here I will make another post. 1% of the total players? more characters are traded every year than the daily PCU (25550 char trades per year, vs 24k period average since the middle of this year to now). there's a HUGE market for buying and selling whole characters. do you really think this less obstructed system is going to see a reduction in the capsuleer cattle market? really? what fundamentals? you've always paid ccp to skip the skill grind and buy/sell SP. a lot of your "arguments" seem to be made up "what if" scenarios based on wild fantasies. i must be honest.
Seems that only the char traders support this bad joke constructed by CCP. It's a pity that you char traders lost the ability to see the value a player has in the personalize creation of his/her char. I bought only one char from Char Bazaar at the cost of another and I regret it because the bought char clearly isn't the same as the ones I personally created & trained from the ground up with the cost of TIME. Time is the one thing that you can't purchase in RL and that especially is what make EVE special. You take that away then Eve would lose it's life force and become empty.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2015.10.18 06:43:12 -
[19] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Seems that only the char traders support this bad joke constructed by CCP. It's a pity that you char traders lost the ability to see the value a player has in the personalize creation of his/her char. I bought only one char from Char Bazaar at the cost of another and I regret it because the bought char clearly isn't the same as the ones I personally created & trained from the ground up with the cost of TIME. Time is the one thing that you can't purchase in RL and that especially is what make EVE special. You take that away then Eve would lose it's life force and become empty.
and just like that - you're wrong from the start. i'm not a character trader. your personal regrets are irrelevant. ships are a disposable tool, we build them and break them daily. pilots are no different. ships are a tool to achieve a goal. pilots are a tool to achieve a goal. if you have a sentimental attachment to your pilot - that's cool. however, you being a sentimental sally is completely irrelevant to the discussion. we've literally been buying and selling time in eve for ages - plex, the character bazaar, now this. pretending eve would lose it's life force because we're introducing something we already have (do we really have to keep pointing out that we've always been able to buy/sell SP?) is just hilarious. if buying/selling SP were going to kill eve, it would have done so when the bazaar opened. clearly, eve has not died.
Okay, I've said what I had to say regarding this. If it goes through, I move on to something else. Like minded people like you would all that'll be left in Eve. Enjoy your SP Farmers Online Eve!
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2015.10.18 07:54:25 -
[20] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:So has this already been decided? Or is it still being debated? If players are postive to the change, and it seems they are, it will be introduced. I don't think it will be large change for new players. Someone must be really interested to the game to spend large chunk of money to "catch up with vets". If for example, Dave Stark want to get rid off his mining V it won't affect my gameplay at all. CCP found new way to earn money. We see EvE as game, they as job. Skill trading will destroy avatar based training system? So what? Nothing is set in stone. People are willing to pay for the service so CCP open this gate for them. Will it change the game significantly? I don't think so. Will it change the way I perceive CCP and the game? Definitely. I won't be as much attached to it. This is first step to destroy fundaments of the game. Ps. D3 is good, it's getting better with every patch.
Good to know and Thank you. D3 was the one game I kept my eye on but never had the time to get into.....until now. I'll check it out.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2015.10.18 07:58:21 -
[21] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:So has this already been decided? Or is it still being debated? If players are postive to the change, and it seems they are, it will be introduced. I don't think it will be large change for new players. Someone must be really interested to the game to spend large chunk of money to "catch up with vets". If for example, Dave Stark want to get rid off his mining V it won't affect my gameplay at all. CCP found new way to earn money. We see EvE as game, they as job. Skill trading will destroy avatar based training system? So what? Nothing is set in stone. People are willing to pay for the service so CCP open this gate for them. Will it change the game significantly? I don't think so. Will it change the way I perceive CCP and the game? Definitely. I won't be as much attached to it. This is first step to destroy fundaments of the game. Ps. D3 is good, it's getting better with every patch. Dave has expressed a personal monetary interest in these changes so it's probably not surprising that he doesn't... "understand" the issues because he doesn't WANT to. Instead he's trying to spin it using all kinds of bogus logic, reasoning and derailing into semantics. He's not the only one doing this, Marsha Mallow for instance also stated to have a personal interest but at least they were open about it I guess. Still, per Malcanis' bio: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" applies and their posts should be seen as such. He's not interested in actually discussing it, he's interested in trying to beat people into submission through spam posting and bogus logic.
LOL, Dead on. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2015.10.18 08:14:50 -
[22] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Dave Stark wrote:1) A system that doesn't cost any one a penny of RL currency. (unless they choose to go plex > isk > sp. but that's optional) I initially was in the 'CCP is greedy' crowd. After some thought, I realize that CCP is also taking some risk with this thing. Today, not losing out on SP was an incentive to not unsub accounts you're not using so much. Tomorrow, you could just unsub and then resub and use skill packets if necessary. Those skill packets will at least partially come from draining unnecessary SP from accounts that ALREADY paid their subs years ago. So in conclusion, CCP risks a loss of revenue vs. today if they don't make some money out of this. Another example of this. I'm currently training Minmatar Dread V on an alt that I may not actually use for some time because RL. I could drain the necessary SP out of other alts and attain that skill immediately on that alt while mothballing him 1 month earlier. In other words, making SP accumulation much more flexible comes with a risk of losing subscription months for CCP.
They are gonna lose more in the long run. There are still plenty of veteran players who's unsubbed atm waiting to get back into Eve when the time's right. What do you think they'll do when they discover what's become of their Eve. Just how do you think they're gonna react when they come to realize that their 100+ SP char that took them 4-5 years to create no longer possess any distinction from the rest of the "Specialized SP bought Chars" that can fly and do exactly what he can do that was created in only half a year? It will be clear sign to them that Eve has turned their backs on all the faithful veteran players and he will back down and leave Eve forever since he knows now that there will be no reason to ever come back. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2015.10.18 08:19:35 -
[23] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tiberius Heth wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:So has this already been decided? Or is it still being debated? If players are postive to the change, and it seems they are, it will be introduced. I don't think it will be large change for new players. Someone must be really interested to the game to spend large chunk of money to "catch up with vets". If for example, Dave Stark want to get rid off his mining V it won't affect my gameplay at all. CCP found new way to earn money. We see EvE as game, they as job. Skill trading will destroy avatar based training system? So what? Nothing is set in stone. People are willing to pay for the service so CCP open this gate for them. Will it change the game significantly? I don't think so. Will it change the way I perceive CCP and the game? Definitely. I won't be as much attached to it. This is first step to destroy fundaments of the game. Ps. D3 is good, it's getting better with every patch. Dave has expressed a personal monetary interest in these changes so it's probably not surprising that he doesn't... "understand" the issues because he doesn't WANT to. Instead he's trying to spin it using all kinds of bogus logic, reasoning and derailing into semantics. He's not the only one doing this, Marsha Mallow for instance also stated to have a personal interest but at least they were open about it I guess. Still, per Malcanis' bio: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" applies and their posts should be seen as such. He's not interested in actually discussing it, he's interested in trying to beat people into submission through spam posting and bogus logic. i could make isk the exact same way even if this idea doesn't happen. instead of selling SP directly, i'll just sell one of the characters from my PI account once i've appropriately trained it. i understand the issues precisely, and they already exist. if "that already exists" is bogus logic, i honestly don't know what to say to you. people who have a personal interest in this are already benefiting from buying/selling SP since we can already do it. my isk/hour will be unchanged whether we get this change or not - pretending i'm posting because i'm somehow trying to protect an income stream is hilariously incorrect.
Yea I know cause I think you're a Dev alt trying to protect your RL income.
There's definitely a motive somewhere.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
163
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Posted - 2015.10.18 08:33:10 -
[24] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:While I'm against the proposal as it currently stands, there's not enough information available yet for me to utterly condemn it.
I think that CCP deliberately posted a vague summary of something they knew would be controversial in order to gain as much feedback as possible, both extreme arguments for and against and otherwise. The proposal will change, it will be tweaked and it will be republished. Alternatively they could don their $70 monocles and $1000 pants, ignore all feedback, then release something hideously out of whack that produces SP out of thin air (this doesn't appear to be the case) just to spite us.
If it's aimed at retaining newer players I think that the dev time would be better spent further revising the NPE which is biased towards pushing new players towards stagnant "levelling up their Raven" style content", which they know is poor for retention; rather than the more dynamic player driven stuff which keeps them here. It doesn't do enough to encourage newbies to seek out other players, instead it leads them into a solo playstyle without explaining A: the nature of the game and B: giving them an idea of the number of options that are available to them.
Until more detail emerges I'm still going with my initial stance of hell no. I've always said I'd drop my account if anything that smacked of PLEX for SP came to be and in its current state the proposal does somewhat smack of it. My initial thoughts were to do exactly that, but after reading the arguments for and against, listening to the discussion on various twitch broadcasts etc, and some consideration, I've delayed that decision to see how this plays out.
TL;DR If they're going ahead with this then CCP needs to get this right, it's a risky move given past events like the misbegotten abortion of an idea that became Incarna.
A very insightful post that's got me thinking. Question is, how long do we have to wait until CCP gives a verdict on this decision? My accounts are still active for another 84 days with no plans of renewal atm. Hopefully what you said is true and CCP decides to abort this atrocious idea in a respectful time frame. But like you, all the players can do now is wait and see how it all pans out. If a Dev shows up asking for an alternative, I'll be glad to propose one for them that won't destroy the game's core. |
Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 08:36:50 -
[25] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Well, apparently this pay-to-win idea is becoming a turd that's gonna be shoved down our throat we want it or don't. So let's negotiate how large, soft and smelly should be the turd. I *see* how helping new players to buy themselves into higher SP early in the game could be good for the players, theoretically, even for those who don't belong to an alliance which can fund them for free. What I don't see is any need that certain players backed up by large RL pockets or large ingame alliances can "pay to win" indefinitely over players who go the "slow way" and merely pay their monthly sub.So here's the thing: to hell with diminishing returns and put a hard cap on the use of skill packages. Say, 10 million SP, roughly the first 6 months of skilling, so players who just pay a subscription to CCP never are left behind by more than 6 months compared to those who paid to win. And yet I think that it's utterly stupid to tell your subscribers that their money is not good enough and they should be paying you more to not be left behind...
I don't eat turd, I flush it down the toilet.
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 09:00:04 -
[26] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Yea I know cause I think you're a Dev alt trying to protect your RL income.
There's definitely a motive somewhere.
considering i'm not even defending the idea. i'm just not crying that the sky is falling. if i want to buy and sell SP i can do it without this idea, and i could probably turn a profit from it if i bothered.
I'll put it to you straight so that you'll (hopefully) understand. If Eve had this feature already incorporated when I first began playing Eve in 2012, I would've left Eve a looooong time ago with absolutely no intentions of coming back. I just lack the ability to stay interested in a game that offers high rewards with little to no effort in a short time frame.
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 09:03:38 -
[27] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:I'll be glad to propose one for them that won't destroy the game's core. like This?
No, You've already clearly demonstrated that you lack this insight.
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 09:27:08 -
[28] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Hopefully what you said is true and CCP decides to abort this atrocious idea in a respectful time frame. No, no, no, no.. no. You misunderstand me, I said that CCP need to get it right.
In case you haven't notice CCP seems to be having trouble with "getting it right" these days. And the margin for error with this is microscopic. Are you that confident they can get this right considering their latest track record?
I'm Not!
If they need help, I'll happily oblige.
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 11:43:48 -
[29] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Yea I know cause I think you're a Dev alt trying to protect your RL income.
There's definitely a motive somewhere.
considering i'm not even defending the idea. i'm just not crying that the sky is falling. if i want to buy and sell SP i can do it without this idea, and i could probably turn a profit from it if i bothered. I'll put it to you straight so that you'll (hopefully) understand. If Eve had this feature already incorporated when I first began playing Eve in 2012, I would've left Eve a looooong time ago with absolutely no intentions of coming back. I just lack the ability to stay interested in a game that offers high rewards with little to no effort in a short time frame. it did. it still does.
When are you gonna get this Dave.
Buying/Selling chars on Char Bazaar and what CCP is currently proposing are 2 very different things. The first had consequence, the latter doesn't and is farmable(which makes it far worst). |
Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 12:34:45 -
[30] - Quote
Colt Blackhawk wrote:I read again some posts and I have to say I am astonished. So people just cry "NOOO" and you can see 60% of all whiners didn-¦t even read the full stuff of proposed changes.
This change won-¦t hardly affect the higher sp players. It simply won-¦t make sense to buy SP if you ave already 100mil sp. This toon for example has almost 70mil sp. NO way buing a ton of sp for this toon. Just do the maths and READ THE DAMN BLOG and now calculate how many sp you would literally trash to get from 70mil to 120mil. In fact the sp destruction due to conversion losses would even first time in eve history decline the total sp groth/player in eve.
Benefits of the proposed changes are mostly for new players. For example: Player A starts mining career, after some months he does accdentaly his first pvp. Now he has almost evrything in mining and no pvp skills. So player A is angry and maybe quits the game because he sees that mining is boring OR he quits the game for four months and lets his skill queue run until his toon is ready for pvp. Why does nobody see this mess???
Ah yes because eve is a vet game and all those vets cry 24/7 about eve is dying and no new players but on the other side they want those new players only for easy targets and to show them how superior the vets are^^ Eve needs a BIG change to attract new players. Forget all those old crying bittervets. The are also responsible for the declining eve player numbers but they refuse to accept it. Maybe the community is the biggest foe of eve actually.
Another benefit is: You skilled on op ship X. CCP nerfs it and you see all your SP have been wasted for this ship. So the wasted SP you do not need any more belong to CCPs responsibility and not yours. With the new changes you can reskill but for the tradeoff of loosing some skill points.
Next thingie: All the bittervets cryinhg about "this is pay to win" refusing to realise they are playing pay2win already for years amuse me. Eve is already pay2win. You want to be a pvp solo god? Just buy plex with money, sell it and buy all the toons you need for solo pvp on char basar. OGB toon: Check. Cloaky falcon toon: CHeck. Cloaky logi toon: Check.
But I bet the whining of all those whiners goes on and on.
These changes WILL make it a lot easier for new players and this is the right direction.
So in other words you want CCP to sacrifice the vets in hopes of attracting new players? Most of the Vets would probably leave and the ones that remain would make it their sole purpose to torture the new blood without mercy. New players spend more and more money to try to get even (to no avail) and the remaining bittervets continues to punish the vengeful new blood. New blood loses faith in game and say it's rigged and leave. Bittervets gets bored with new blood PCU declines and then they leave.. for good. The end of eve. I can see this happening all within the span of a year.
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 12:40:05 -
[31] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Is this "Dave Stark vs the world" here?
So obvious that he's a Dev alt. Why else would a regular pilot defend this atrocious feature throughout the entire 150+ pages of this thread. |
Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 12:41:33 -
[32] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:The end of eve. I can see this happening all within the span of a year. I'm betting on you being clueless instead. We'll see who was right next October 2016!
If this goes through, I won't be around to find out, nor would I care. |
Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 13:24:40 -
[33] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:Cearain wrote:
Every year the game has existed the new player has had to compete at a larger and larger skill point disadvantage. It is only right that ccp would give new players more options to deal with this disadvantage.
This I agree with 100%, however paying more RL cash on top of a subscription to get enough SPs to compete is going to leave a nasty taste for a lot of new guys, that's how many will perceive this. Far better to remove learning implants and max attributes and scale down training time modifiers on core skills to compensate the ever growing distance towards end game stuffs. If CCP want to bring new guys into the game quicker they'd do this, if they just want a desperate cash grab, they skim brokerage fees for our unwanted SPs...
So you think CCP is desperate too huh. Well if they are desperate for cash to keep this game alive, I can understand them wanting to do something like this. But if it's sheer greed, then that's another matter. Either way there are other more appropriate alternatives that I'm willing to share if a Dev shows up to seek inquiries. |
Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 13:31:39 -
[34] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Portmanteau wrote:a short term cynical cash grab. it's no more of a cash grab than we already have. you either buy a character - or you buy SP packets. you won't do both. it's not a new cash grab you're just moving from character transfer revenue to skill extractor/aur revenue.
Either you're a Dev alt or someone is offering you something to do this. Which is it?
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 13:39:40 -
[35] - Quote
Delegate wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Delegate wrote:Actually it does change a lot in new player experience. After this, a player starting the game will be unable to compete not only with older players but also with those of his peers that bought SP. So he will receive a very clear message: first pay for the sub, then grid/pay for the ISK and finally pay for the progress (or be left behind). There is a major difference from character bazaar here. A player with say 2-4m SP isn't going to engage in activities targeted by a 30m SP char bough off the bazaar. But he will meet players of similar age that performs better than him, because, for example, they bought 1.2m SP in core skills. After this change retention in new subs will drop. It could change new players' perception, which unfortunately is not good. For a moment of purely academic fun, I tried to pinpoint the difference between new player experience and how new player "perceive" the game. Academic, because we both know that the decision to keep playing comes from how you perceive the game.
Ah this is good. Dave can you get this? If not, reread it over and over again until you do. Then apologize for posting rubbish for the past 155+ pages in this thread. |
Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 13:43:38 -
[36] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Portmanteau wrote:a short term cynical cash grab. it's no more of a cash grab than we already have. you either buy a character - or you buy SP packets. you won't do both. it's not a new cash grab you're just moving from character transfer revenue to skill extractor/aur revenue. Either you're a Dev alt or someone is offering you something to do this. Which is it? nobody has to offer me anything to state a fact. the joy of knowing some one's incorrect argument fell apart because of it is payment enough.
I see then that means you must be a Lawyer in RL and this is one of your "Bad Habits".
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 14:12:26 -
[37] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:I see then that means you must be a Lawyer in RL and this is one of your "Bad Habits".
yeah, why not. i'm a lawyer. we'll go with it. if we've stopped trying to guess my occupation, we can always get back to discussing the devblog?
Have it your way.
This is my opinion on how this should work if CCP insist on trading SP.
1st--Veterans can extract 5 skills per year using the Transneural Package. The skills that are extracted, extracts the entire skill regardless of the level. The extracted skills extracts up to 70% of the actual SP extracted which the player can relocate anywhere else on him/herself only (can't be sold to someone else cause it breaks eve realistic principles).
2nd--CCP introduce a new skill book called Transneural with Int/Mem attributes and a 4x training time multiplier. This would be a skill that I player needs to train to level 5 if they want to sell their own SP to other pilots. Once this skill is trained to level 5 it starts producing unallocated SP that can be uses however the player wishes with a -30% SP accumulation drawback.
With these features incorporated it limits the abuse of SP farming and most importantly it doesn't break Eve game principles. |
Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 14:31:01 -
[38] - Quote
Portmanteau wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:Maybe you could define and describe the actual system you are referring to? i just did. Portmanteau wrote:If it's there's literally zero difference between the character bazaar and skill packets then one has to ask why are CCP wasting all this effort in changing it ? this question has been answered so many times it's getting tragic now. the answer is even in the devblog. go and read it. Cobblers, you are being incredibly obtuse here, the answer is indeed in the devblog and Rise goes to great lengths explaining the "improvements" that will be made on the character bazaar model.... those are the differences, you are just flailing about now trying to deny the obvious differences that everyone (including the developers) have spelled out. Maybe you need a break, you've been at this thread for quite a while now.
Not only a break, he needs to stop posting, entirely! |
Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.18 14:35:29 -
[39] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Portmanteau wrote:[Can you sell me 500k sps from Dave Stark for me to inject into Portmanteau please ? Apparently that facility already exists. Thanking you in advance.
yes. how much are you willing to pay? Daniela Doran wrote:Not only a break, he needs to stop posting, entirely! indeed, my facts are getting in the way of your fabrications.
Facts? More like delusions.
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.19 00:55:17 -
[40] - Quote
Delegate wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:This is being done pure and simply for profit, whether you like it or not and like i said before you really think it will stay if they can make yet another whole new revenue stream from another added F2P feature of microtransactions that hit at a core principal of the game they said would never alter. My personal take on this proposal is that CCP find itself increasingly out of options to maintain the revenue stream. I personally would prefer paying higher sub price, than witnessing this SP market go online.
No matter what shape or form, SP trading is cancer for Eve. But with my proposal (on pg.156 of this thread), it's not deadly cancer. In it's current form the cancer is already at stage 3 and Eve will rot within a year. |
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
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Posted - 2015.10.19 01:06:58 -
[41] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I hope CCP don't introduce this new feature around the 10th of next month. Then the (possibly) massive drop off in players online due to Fallout 4 will instead be used as a justification for the I-told-you-so people to party in the streets because they were so right. It takes a special kind of stupid to joyfully dance at the prospect of being right that the game they love is dying. But there you go. They will dance and they will be wrong. But what will they say 100 hours of FO4 later when all those people start to get the EVE shakes and return to the game? How will they then explain why the numbers are climbing? They'll most certainly not have quit as many are threatening to do, so they'll be around to see the rebound. Should be interesting to see the backpedaling then. Or the whole issue may be moot as they've all moved on to the next big thing that is causing that unstable sky to fall on them. Mr Epeen
What would there be to backpedal to with all your chars biomassed?
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.19 02:09:24 -
[42] - Quote
Jared Khanar wrote:Delegate wrote:
My personal take on this proposal is that CCP find itself increasingly out of options to maintain the revenue stream. I personally would prefer paying higher sub price, than witnessing this SP market go online.
WOD, Dust, Gunjack, Valkyrie - who do you think pays for these developments? If you extract massive amounts of capital from the project that earns you this - what is going to happen if not enough is left to satisfy these customers or if you need more because you wastet these investments, canceling projects? Do a simple math what ccp has to pay for eve fanfest or vegas and think about what could have happend to this game if all this money and devtime had been used from the beginning to primarily develop eve instead? Still wating on them to keep their promises from 2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ0k0ioROUo That-¦s a timeframe others develop complete and complex AAA games
Very good point.
CCP has squandered the revenues they made from Eve on other non-profitable ventures as stated in the post above. And now in order to compensate for those losses they're trying to dig in deeper and milk their only bread winner even further??
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.19 02:14:07 -
[43] - Quote
Charlie Nonoke wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Charlie Nonoke wrote: By your calculations, there's also another advantage, if a newbie has 12 PLEX to spend, he would, and I know I would, rather burn up the 12 PLEX initially for a 30m injection, rather than spend 12 PLEX for a year's subscription, and only passive train about 23m SP, assuming 2700SP\hr, which also is impossible to achieve because of remaps and Cybernetics V.
Sure he misses the 12 months playtime, but he gets more SP, and gets instant delivery. All while only spending 12 PLEX.
BTW, I also hate the idea.
As opposed to now where that players buys a 30+M SP character on the bazaar with PLEX left over to add gametime or buy ships? And if you hate the idea of buying SP, I'm sure I'll find posts in your history where you are railing at the idea that characters can be purchased already. Mr Epeen I'm not against the character bazaar and its function, because skills were already tailored by the original capsuleer and decisions were made by him. The new buyer has to accept those decisions, like neg stat, corp thief, crap name. This idea negates all that history and is essentially paying for SP. Character Bazaar is also paying for SP, but it comes at the price that it's not 1st hand.
Please try your best to get this Dave. Try harder and harder if you have to.
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.19 02:23:41 -
[44] - Quote
Lori Tempa wrote: Negative status is fixed with tags now. Corp thief means nothing after you've bought a character, crap name is something that a lot of people have Charlie.
The character bazaar is paying for sp no matter how you try to spin it. This method is better than the character bazaar because of the reasons you listed. I don't see why these disadvatages are needed when someone is trying to get something they need in terms of a trained pilot.
Character Bazaar is buying SP, but as stated, it comes at a cost. That cost is something that's become acceptable. Now with this proposal CCP want's to get rid of that cost making it downright pay2win which is downright cancerous to any subscription game. It almost always marks the beginning of the end with MMO games and players (like myself) would gradually start to lose confidence in a game with the principles Eve built itself on. |
Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.19 03:29:51 -
[45] - Quote
Etara Silverblade wrote:General Lootit wrote:When feature will be implemented then you will find out how much your skill points are worth. Right now my skillpoints are priceless and putting a price on them cheapens my loyalty to the game and the time I spent getting those skill points. Right now time in game equals skill points and after this is in, money will equal skill points. It's that simple and I will have none of it.
You won't be the only one. I'll be out as well. |
Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.19 03:40:36 -
[46] - Quote
Delegate wrote:Dave Stark wrote:I'm going to make a better argument against this new proposal than has been seen in the first 165 pages of this thread.
you can use this system to "bypass" prerequisites for ships. you can train the prerequisites for say, command ships, then extract all the leadership SP and still fly them.
there needs to be a check to ensure that you cannot extract sp from skills where you have trained something that requires the skill you are trying to extract. Man, really, I have no words for what your're doing in this thread. CCP Terminus wrote:The current plan is to not allow skillpoints to be extracted from skills that are requirements of other skills. So in your example you would have to remove the Command Ships skill before you could remove any prerequisite skills like Armored Warfare. We also plan on having this be something you can only do in stations, so you wouldn't be stuck in in space in a ship you can no longer fly.
He's a Dev alt, and the one who came up with this crap. He's gotta make himself look good or he may get fired, LOL. |
Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.19 03:51:19 -
[47] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Once this goes live I will be accepting SP pack donations for my Make Don ZOLA cry drive. The only thing he cares about is SP and I intend to acquire more than him. I won't lie to you folks. I'm at under 60 k SP right now so it'll take some dedication on your part. But if we all pull together on this you will see forum rage as you never have before. Mr Epeen
Figures why you support this. You want to inject some SP into your failed char. You fail at char creation so it's no wonder why you don't see the value in it.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
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Posted - 2015.10.19 04:12:48 -
[48] - Quote
Vodar Valimian wrote:This is such an epic bad idea that i cringe just thinking about it.
Here are my 2 cents.
- Cent 1 - Having a perfectly skilled character in any specific field used to be a testament to the patience and dedication of the player who built the character. These characters are rare because the investment in time and sacrifice is significant.
But no longer. Want a perfect (insert major ship type here)? 30 min and currency (poof). The fact that a character with the combination of these skills were so rare was a testament to the player who invested years in their creation. Remove the scarcity, remove the value. This idea so cheapens the game and the existing characters that it is hard to take it seriously.
- Cent 2 - How does this make any sense at all. The whole point of clones and transfer of memories is that you transfer your memories. How can you transfer someone else's experiences.
Bottom line, this is a sickening and obvious cash grab and I predict it will make eve just another (play to win) (fail) game.
Thanks,
Vodar
This post should be spammed after every Dave Starks post.
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.19 05:22:09 -
[49] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Mike Azariah wrote:...
Actually I do not see how it affects me directly, if that is what you mean. But I tend to look beyond myself when considering changes to Eve. Kind of why I am on the CSM. Not just to feather my own nest.
As I said in the long quote . . . it will change the dynamic and the flavour of the game. If sold or marketed incorrectly it WILL look like a money grab where it is a subscription game that also needs microtransactions to stay current. I spoke about this on Podside, last night, about the financial divide it may create between the poor and the rich. I was told the solution was not to be 'poor'.
What about the divide between the casual and the hardcore?
Mainly I am trying to figure out WHO this is for and who it benefits.
any ideas?
m
Almost certainly not the new players unless the lay out a reasonable sum of RL cash. It makes me feel very uncomfortable about the whole thing.
Yep, it feels like a scam doesn't it.
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.19 05:56:28 -
[50] - Quote
Mag's wrote:CCP Terminus wrote:Aerasia wrote:Mag's wrote:This reply just makes it look like a done deal. How many features have even made it to the Dev blog stage without being implemented? Someone with a truly silver tongue may be able to get CCP to tweak some settings, but this was a 'done deal' by the time it hit the CSM Summit. What I'm looking forward to? The threadnaught spawned from the first Epic Arc that rewards completion with a skill packet. Which is why we're taking extra care with this feature. In this case the dev blog came out before any implementation. Ahh so a PR exercise, but it's still a done deal? Nice.
Yes I also really like to know if this is a done deal? The $144.00 usd I'm putting into Eve every month hinges on this decision. |
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.19 06:04:18 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Terminus wrote:Daniela Doran wrote: Very good point.
CCP has squandered the revenues they made from Eve on other non-profitable ventures as stated in the post above. And now in order to compensate for those losses they're trying to dig in deeper and milk their only bread winner even further??
CCP is a company, not a product and it is the goal of any company to outlive any one product they create. If a company relies on a single product for the entirety of their revenue, this is not possible. At some point the product will be replaced, even one as long lived as EVE Online. If that's the only thing making us money, the company collapses at that point and a lot of people lose their jobs. While I don't see EVE going anywhere any time soon, it makes perfect sense to branch out in to other projects, to hedge bets against the future. The current projects in the works like Valkyrie have a lot of promise and hype, while at the same time having a much smaller development budget that EVE does right now. Any losses incurred from past projects are already taken care of. This new feature is not being developed to compensate for them. Speaking of which, there's been quite a few questions as to why the feature is being developed? What players are the target for this feature? I think it's fairly clearly described in the dev blog here: "By putting more control of your characters in your hands we hope to improve the game for everyone. Whether youGÇÖre an older player who would rather have ISK than those mining skills you donGÇÖt use any more, a clever new player looking to invest your fortune into your character, a Corp leader trying to move everyone into a new doctrine or someone like me who just realized that they would rather fly ArmageddonGÇÖs than Stilettos, this feature has you covered. This all fits nicely to our overall game design philosophy of giving you control over your experience through cooperation and competition with each other." The feature is intended to allow players to trade resources. Whether that's real-world currency, ISK, or time. It is the same philosophy behind PLEX, and why PLEX is both effective and sustainable over long periods. We don't create a way for players to buy their way to victory. We aren't injecting new SP in to the game. We simply allow players to trade the resources they have for the resources they want.
Okay, then why try to fix something that isn't broken? Why not just leave the Char Bazaar the way it is? In other words why is CCP trying to make more money this way? And why would you do it in a way that contradicts one of Eve's main core principals that the game was based upon for over a decade?
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Daniela Doran
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Posted - 2015.10.19 06:11:25 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Terminus wrote:Mag's wrote:CCP Terminus wrote: Which is why we're taking extra care with this feature. In this case the dev blog came out before any implementation.
Ahh so a PR exercise, but it's still a done deal? Nice. Daniela Doran wrote:Yes I also really like to know if this is a done deal? The $144.00 usd I'm putting into Eve every month hinges on this decision. If it was a done deal we'd have put the dev blog out when it was going to be shipped. The whole point of the dev blog is to gather feedback and assess.
In that case I'd like your opinion on this proposal if CCP is insistent on SP trading.
1st--Veterans can extract 5 skills per year using the Transneural Package. The skills that are extracted, extracts the entire skill regardless of the level. The extracted skills extracts up to 66% of the actual SP extracted which the player can relocate anywhere else on him/herself only (can't be sold to someone else cause it breaks eve realistic principles).
2nd--CCP introduce a new skill book called Transneural with Int/Mem attributes and a 4x training time multiplier. This would be a skill that a player needs to train to level 5 if they want to sell their own SP to other pilots. Once this skill is trained to level 5 it starts producing unallocated SP that can be uses however the player wishes with a -34% SP accumulation drawback.
3rd--Set cap injection limit to 20m SP. 20M SP is plenty of SP for new pilots to gain access to core skills that they can use to branch off into any other occupation of their choosing.
With these features incorporated it limits the abuse of SP farming and most importantly it doesn't break Eve game principles. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
186
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Posted - 2015.10.19 10:05:01 -
[53] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Dave Stark wrote:having things hidden behind arbitrary waits may have been good when the game was new and they had to have some form of pacing... but there's no need for pacing 12 years down the line. We need whole system rebalance then, rather putting make up on the corpse. Avatar based system was took from RPG game with attributes and skills, if not working properly it's a point when need close look up and change. All I hear: "you may compete but you need to pay". Edit: Dave, it's become "Dave personal thread about SP", we all know your opinion about it by now. Do you ever sleep? Take a day off, or week maybe. Yo don't have to quote every answer in this thread.
He's a Dev and this was his idea. He needs support or else he may get terminated from CCP.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
186
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Posted - 2015.10.19 12:23:32 -
[54] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Zappity wrote:It would not be called a 'sacred cow' if it were uncontroversial. But this is one that needs to be turned into a steak. Judging from the feedback in this thread it would seem that your stance on the subject is not shared by the majority of people in this thread and would not be too healthy for subscription numbers. Yes you could just write this all off as idle threats, but if you are in CCPs position would you want to really risk it and be the one who bought a 12 year old game to its knees just so you can implement this? Everyone realised that jump fatigue and the sov changes needed to be done, and so despite the negative reactions players stuck with CCP as we knew we could not keep the status quo. This on the other hand is much more dangerous as it all to close to Incarna. I actually think a lot of players have already let micro transactions slip in through the back door in the form of ship SKINs, a feature that nearly everyone had wanted, but somehow CCP cleverly managed to tie it to microtransactions without much of a fuss from the players. It was explained away at the time that it is fine as ship skins are cosmetic items; this idea on the other hand is going to be different as SPs are far from cosmetic. Rubbish. People won't quit over this. Why would they? It doesn't materially affect your game play if you choose not to participate. I And the feedback on reddit was very different to here, indicating that there is a possibile significant upside. Don't like microtransactions? Simply don't do them. Buy from the market instead. If this was a "soul-bound" proposal I would be dead against it. But it isn't so I have no problem with it.
You failed as a psychic. I'll be one of the first to run away from this horrid game if this abomination is unleashed into Eve.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
187
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Posted - 2015.10.19 12:32:55 -
[55] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tiberius Heth wrote:So you persist in not answering a very basic, and quite important, question. Which is all a bit weird given all the effort and spamming you do in this thread.
i've answered it every time you've asked it. you just seem to be illiterate. No, you haven't. If it's "the same" as you put it (which it is not, obviously) then you wouldn't care whether or not it would be implemented and while you might have an opinion for or against it wouldn't incite your hilarious **** spamming spin doctoring. The very FACT that you sperg all over this thread proves there's a vested interest somewhere which goes beyond "it's the same so meh who cares". So again: why do you clown all over this thread, what is your personal motivation? Given how outspoken you are on the subject I'm sure you can explain it to us. Heck you might even convince us!
I told you the reason.
And no he won't! |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
187
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Posted - 2015.10.19 12:51:00 -
[56] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:It's me the only tired of seeing how the thread has devolved into 50% of Dave Stark vs the Universe? What a troll.
No!
Dave shut the hell up and go away!
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
187
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Posted - 2015.10.19 13:00:12 -
[57] - Quote
Daimus Daranius wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Zappity wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Zappity wrote:It would not be called a 'sacred cow' if it were uncontroversial. But this is one that needs to be turned into a steak. Judging from the feedback in this thread it would seem that your stance on the subject is not shared by the majority of people in this thread and would not be too healthy for subscription numbers. Yes you could just write this all off as idle threats, but if you are in CCPs position would you want to really risk it and be the one who bought a 12 year old game to its knees just so you can implement this? Everyone realised that jump fatigue and the sov changes needed to be done, and so despite the negative reactions players stuck with CCP as we knew we could not keep the status quo. This on the other hand is much more dangerous as it all to close to Incarna. I actually think a lot of players have already let micro transactions slip in through the back door in the form of ship SKINs, a feature that nearly everyone had wanted, but somehow CCP cleverly managed to tie it to microtransactions without much of a fuss from the players. It was explained away at the time that it is fine as ship skins are cosmetic items; this idea on the other hand is going to be different as SPs are far from cosmetic. Rubbish. People won't quit over this. Why would they? It doesn't materially affect your game play if you choose not to participate. I And the feedback on reddit was very different to here, indicating that there is a possibile significant upside. Don't like microtransactions? Simply don't do them. Buy from the market instead. If this was a "soul-bound" proposal I would be dead against it. But it isn't so I have no problem with it. You failed as a psychic. I'll be one of the first to run away from this horrid game if this abomination is unleashed into Eve. Can I have your stuff?
Sure I'll leave a couple million isk worth of junk you can have. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
193
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Posted - 2015.10.20 02:48:57 -
[58] - Quote
Rawthorm wrote:Jared Khanar wrote:Maekchu wrote: You can exchange a Plex for AUR (3500 AUR to be specific). Meaning, this can still be attained with in-game currency only.
and the plex doesn-¦t mean money for ccp? try to view this from the company side How is this even a factor? Why is it seemingly a bad thing that CCP make any money? A well fed CCP can only further development of this game which we are all so passionate about.
Afraid not.
The game will began to rot once this 'NEW SYSTEM" is implemented. It would be like CCP performing surgery on a corpse...like Frankenstein.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
193
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Posted - 2015.10.20 03:48:29 -
[59] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:Lost pages back but this: Maximus Aerelius wrote:There are already in-game items to help new players called Cerebral Accelerators albeit with severe character age restrictions. Lift the bar a little more on the age that these will work at and add them a bit more to loots\DEDs\Data and\or Relic sites to make them more available. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say give them it as a starter item but link in how to use it and what it's for. There are far better ways to get new guys into ships faster than this. The best of which is this: Advanced Cerebral AcceleratorThis booster will cease to function for pilots who have been registered for more than 7 days. Bonuses: +17 to all attributes+17 to ALL attributes. Give that to a new starter from Day 1 or even bump it to +25 to ALL attributes Benefits:It kicks in from Day 1 Training is amplified so skilling is quicker. They don't skip the content that comes from finding your feet but get to toddle quicker It's free from the start You could seed more so they are available on the market ie new player friendly corps (E-UNI etc) can buy them in Data\Relic\Combat sites or in special mission drops\DED sites\COSMOS It stimulates the economy You still have the choices equal consequences so key to EVE Online Free the dev time required for the -ú-ú-ú for SP and bring the Character Bazaar in-house to the EVE UI Drawbacks No increase demand for PLEX\Aurum so price doesn't increase You'd have to write a new tutorial on boosters\implants\accelerators or have Aura tell them about the thing that's in their head. Just some thoughts I'd had. Carry on EDIT: And this from the wiki: Please note: Cerebral accelerators are destroyed upon clone-jump, but will otherwise remain, even if your capsule is destroyed.If that doesn't encourage some PvP then what will. All other implants apart from 'Golden Pods' are destroyed on pod-kill.
That's way too much. +10 to all attributes is good enough and increase it's duration to last 30 days for pilots below 20 SP. Price it around 800 mill isk or 10.00 usd equivalent.
I know I for one would've bought tons of these early last year. But SP packs would've turn me away from the game. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
194
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Posted - 2015.10.20 03:56:23 -
[60] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:The single best thing about Eve is the skill system.
Edit, the single best thing about Eve, WAS the skill system.
Indeed.
Eve's skill system is (was) the main feature that attracted me to eve. Otherwise I would've played WOW for instant uberness. |
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
194
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Posted - 2015.10.20 04:03:10 -
[61] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Urziel99 wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:CCP Terminus wrote:Daniela Doran wrote: Very good point.
CCP has squandered the revenues they made from Eve on other non-profitable ventures as stated in the post above. And now in order to compensate for those losses they're trying to dig in deeper and milk their only bread winner even further??
CCP is a company, not a product and it is the goal of any company to outlive any one product they create. If a company relies on a single product for the entirety of their revenue, this is not possible. Yeah companies that sell electricity are never around long are they. Comparing a game software company to a public utility that is consumed by everyone? Apples vs Oranges fail troll -5/10 Yeah, because utilities never go bankrupt nor face sudden and drasticallychanging markets. And here is how I read that snippet of that comment. We are hoping the future of the company lies elsewhere than EVE, so we are going to milk EVE while it dies. But hey, I'm a glass half full kinda guy.
If they disregard the negative feedback and release this cancer anyway, then this statement of yours would appear to be accurate. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
201
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Posted - 2015.10.21 14:57:20 -
[62] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:considering after a month 50% of people quit, and 40% of them are "leveling their raven" would it really be so bad if grinding pve were used to "level up" by buying SP with their money? i mean, if 40% of people, which are 80% of the remaining players after 1 month are doing it - surely there's a market for that type of gameplay? they're still out in space, you can still go and mess with them.
Just give up and quit your job as an Eve Dev for coming up with this abominable idea. I'm losing all interest to log in anymore thanks to you. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
201
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Posted - 2015.10.21 15:01:28 -
[63] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Dave Stark wrote:considering after a month 50% of people quit, and 40% of them are "leveling their raven" would it really be so bad if grinding pve were used to "level up" by buying SP with their money? i mean, if 40% of people, which are 80% of the remaining players after 1 month are doing it - surely there's a market for that type of gameplay? they're still out in space, you can still go and mess with them. Just give up and quit your job as an Eve Dev for coming up with this abominable idea. I'm losing all interest to log in anymore thanks to you. the door's got a closer on it, don't let it hit you on the way out.
Refund me the money I've already paid you dickhead, and I'm out! |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
201
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Posted - 2015.10.22 11:25:52 -
[64] - Quote
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Dave Stark wrote:considering after a month 50% of people quit, and 40% of them are "leveling their raven" would it really be so bad if grinding pve were used to "level up" by buying SP with their money? i mean, if 40% of people, which are 80% of the remaining players after 1 month are doing it - surely there's a market for that type of gameplay? they're still out in space, you can still go and mess with them. Just give up and quit your job as an Eve Dev for coming up with this abominable idea. I'm losing all interest to log in anymore thanks to you. the door's got a closer on it, don't let it hit you on the way out. Are you trying to get people to quit Eve just because they don't agree with your philosophy? If you are someone from the Eve marketing department then you should be reprimanded for posting such a indecorous remark. Are you're an ally of CCP or an Enemy. Seems to me that you're probably the later because it's clear you don't give a lick of concern about the players and only about how much you can milk from this game. So far, from all your post all you point out is that it would make no difference from buying char from Eve Bazaar, yada, yada. But you're forgetting something important dude, something someone who's only interested in the money aspect of Eve can't comprehend. And that is the fun aspect of Eve. I'm playing Eve because I'm enjoying the game. What you're proposing is going to subtract from that and worst thing about it is that you don't even seem to notice. You lack the ability to comprehend what draws people to play Eve which alone is reason enough for players to ignore anything you have to say in this post. If you really are some sort of representative in the marketing department of Eve then you really should step down and stop this post before you make more people contemplate on quitting Eve.
I'm not gonna do anything as rash as that just yet, mostly because I still have a lot of gaming time left and it's not guaranteed that this fail Dev alt has the final say in this. He's clueless about Eve just as you say and the only thing he see in Eve is how it can make more money instead of trying to improve the game. I'm gonna step away from Eve for 2-3 months and check back later to see how things have paned out then. If the game has decided to go the Dave's route then I'll know Eve's time has come at last and It'll be time to step down from this game for good.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
205
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Posted - 2015.10.25 01:15:45 -
[65] - Quote
There you go again Quoting,Nice to get a poll going here to see what the actual sub base has to say.[/quote]
yes, quoting. that's what you do when you reply to a point. you quote the point that has been made, then you reply to it.[/quote]
Its a shame when your asked a direct question you can never get an answer from you.[/quote]
i've answered every question i've been asked. multiple times.[/quote]
Answer this one then.
When are you gonna resign from CCP?
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
206
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Posted - 2015.10.26 02:55:25 -
[66] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote: Answer this one then.
When are you gonna resign from CCP?
Lol so mad. Also ccp seagull said this feature is imprtant to the future of the future of eve yesterday at eve vegas. Give it up lads, it's happening.
Then Eve is finish and you'll be looking for another job within a year after it hits. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
206
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Posted - 2015.10.26 03:07:22 -
[67] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Daniela Doran wrote: Answer this one then.
When are you gonna resign from CCP?
Lol so mad. Also ccp seagull said this feature is imprtant to the future of the future of eve yesterday at eve vegas. Give it up lads, it's happening. Of course it is happening, it was clear from the start by the lack of the communication of CCP with players here. They did not want to discuss about it and to see what to adjust, they have decided on it and they do not care what players have to say :shocker:. Ah well, guess the players will send the message via subscriptions.
I just hope they roll out with it ASAP before my subs expire so I can clear away any doubts about leaving this game for good.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
208
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Posted - 2015.10.29 02:12:20 -
[68] - Quote
Leonardo Adami wrote:Levi Belvar wrote:These people speaking that they want all in EvE now why dont you ask CCP seagull to give you EvE Offline - single player and use the Tilde command /Giveall
There's a reason no such thing comes in online games, the shelf life after you blitz'd through it in 90 mins is Zero. After you clean yourself up from all the vomit you've spewed please elaborate on this.
Reported for trolling!
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
208
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Posted - 2015.10.29 02:17:02 -
[69] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Tiberius Heth wrote:Suede wrote:Tiberius Heth wrote:So CCP, you had more than a week to think it all over. I'm sure that by now a decision is made or a least a consensus is reached, what is it going to be? Stay true to a core concept of EVE or sell out. if it is more Money for CCP I am sure they will go head and do it, CCP making money come before there player base, as someone as to buy the milk They did well before, so not an excuse. This thread was merely a PR exercise, to make the players feel involved and to fulfil their promise to the CSM. While there may be a few changes here and there, (which is normal anyway) it was actually already a done deal.
If that's true , then it's going to be sad to see this game reduce to such a low level.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
209
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Posted - 2015.10.30 00:33:59 -
[70] - Quote
Zerg Xander wrote:I love this idea! I am a new player who recently resubbed after quitting after only a couple months. This might actually keep me in the game. When I look at how long I will have to train to be viable in pvp it seems hopeless. If I try to pve I get insulted or ganked. The biggest problem this game has is its community. Everyone says they want to help noobs but you call us Care Bears gank us while mining or steal our stuff in missions. It seems like the only reason the older players want newer players is to kill them most older players who act like they are good at this game only take fights with weaker players. The old guard needs to be shaken up in this game. Most of the map is empty because coalitions control 100x more space then they need. Why would any new player stay in this game if they know that no matter how hard they work they will never be able to compete with a 5 year character.
I think this could actually draw new players
Yea and then they quit when they realize they can't afford to pay for a second house note.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
210
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Posted - 2015.10.31 05:38:38 -
[71] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:Verminah Helbain wrote:Why did they even bother posting this when it seems they have no intent on replying at all. They're trying to see if they can get away with it. If we blink for a second, lower our guard just a tiny bit or perhaps grow tired of being ever defiant, they'll sneak in P2W juuuuust a tiny, teensy little bit... for now. Do note that while they so cleverly grabbed our attention with this monstrosity of an idea they quickly brought us this new Crimson Harvest thing which is, of course, a test bed for more P2W.
Yep and they threw in that fail alt (Dave Stark) to try and convince any gullible naysayers into thinking " Hey it's the same as Character Bazaar just only easier....cough a tad more expensive". Unfortunately there are a few players in eve who relish this idea. Just as there are professional players in sports who cheat and take steroids for instant improvements in order to be able to compete with the more experience players, the players in eve who agree with this abominable idea are just the same.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
211
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Posted - 2015.10.31 23:52:32 -
[72] - Quote
Jared Khanar wrote:General Lootit wrote: My bad. My point is those who paying with rl cash also make effort to earn money. It's beneficial for CCP and players who buying PLEX with isk because they cannot or will not to do it with rl money.
You cannot prefer one over the other! From an ingame point of view this is some kind of symbiotic thing if balanced right. Those who pay rl cash to buy what they need ingame, are transfering the burden to grind to the players with time. "Crossing a line" unevenly distributes fun and boredom / frustration between the two. You have to treat them equally - else you risk to drive one side away from your game. And the other will follow! Yes, without the rich there are no plex for poor players Yes, without the poor players there are no ships, whatever for the rich and also much less content to *pew*... You need each other, don-¦t you understand? It-¦s in both sides interest to maintain the perception that it does absolutly not matter how you fund your accounts / assets - that the ingame possibilities are equal! Our manipulated, high plex prices shout: pay less vs. grind more (a self-accelerating downward spiral) SP trading proposal adds: pay a bit more vs. grind more Repeat: Please, do not add items into the eve store that affects gameplay. Please, only sell vanity items in the eve store. Please, do not connect the possibility to skip parts of the gameplay experience to additional income. (It-¦s like telling: Ok, we know this is bad, but it stays. just pay and you don-¦t have to deal with it.) Please, do not connect fixes for problems or symptoms to additional income.
You're wasting your time trying to debate with that teenage troll.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
214
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Posted - 2015.11.02 03:43:47 -
[73] - Quote
Odd Codie wrote:This is an obvious good idea that will help pilots become more function faster, while not ruining the prestige of the SP system.
Yes, yes, 100 times yes.
Me having to wait 80 days for cap ship training (no this is not my main), with a 30mil sp toon and all the ISK to set it up and painfully annoying. It literally makes the game not fun in many aspects.
Even as giddy as I am about it, I don't see myself using it all the time... just here and there.
Wrong, you'll become lazy and won't even pay that much attention to your skill queue anymore. You'll be spending most of your time grinding for isk like never before and drugging down all the SP you can get your addicted hands on. After you've piled up over 100 mill SP within a year and flown all the ships you wanted to fly in Eve, you'll get bored of Eve and then you'll leave Eve forever. Then off you go to the next pay2win sub game.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
217
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Posted - 2015.11.04 02:28:06 -
[74] - Quote
Magnus Roden wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Magnus Roden wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Stalking Mantis wrote:Doing so would be going against a core mechanic of EVE online just to get extra cash so yah. They've been doing that since the character bazaar was created, thus charging extra cash for the transfer of SP is at this point just as much a core mechanic, just with a more prohibitive price point. But I guess we're ok with it so long as the entry point is several plex rather than a fraction of one. No the character bazaar does NOT break the "rules", if you think it does and this is thus the same then you're lacking insight, or you're just avoiding the issue on purpose. There is no issue to avoid precisely because of the bazaar unless you think character level investment is only meaningful when it's just time and trading SP needs a significant entry point. Fact of the matter is trading identities trivializes consequence rather than enforcing it as you literally get paid as a seller in the bazaar to liquidate your reputation. It's just legitimized alt rolling that bypasses the normal consequence of doing so, but we're apparently fine with it since someone else is still holding the bag when the sale is done. That people say it's fine because of reputation is completely backwards, and that's the closest thing to a defense of a difference that people have presented. And even then it's easily trivialized with existing social connections. So in the end the result is the same, we're fine with paying real cash for SP so long as the investment is high and the bad rep from old players hurts new ones. That character that is sold STILL adheres to the time invested into it, SP wise. And the buyer STILL has to deal with the consequences of the choices for that character: Name, SP allocation and corp/behaviour history. The choices the previous owner made and the consequences thereof still apply. I'm sure you can understand this basic thing, it really isn't too difficult to comprehend.
Apparently it is either to difficult for some (CCP included) to comprehend this or they don't want to comprehend it for selfish reasonings.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
218
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Posted - 2015.11.04 14:02:08 -
[75] - Quote
I just hope CCP give an update with some sort of timetable for when they plan to implement this cancerous feature into Eve before my subs expire. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
229
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Posted - 2015.11.12 05:43:48 -
[76] - Quote
Danmal wrote:Rek Seven wrote: I'll say it again; this feature is not aimed at new players, it is aimed at earning CCP more money. If ccp wanted to help new players get into the game faster, they would give them free sp for completing the tutorial, joining their first player corp or upon there third month in the game.
Oh, I am all for that, as are many others. But CCP has been reluctant to do this and only made minor changes (a slight bump in starting SP). On the economics side, I think CCP actually need to earn more money in order to be(come) profitable (again). That's speculation since they do not (have to) publish their annual report anymore ever since they bought back the bond they once issued. The reason I bring this up is that I think suggesting that CCP are greedy moneygrabbers is mistaken. I believe it to be more about finding a better survival strategy, really.
Or CCP could focus on creating a game that centralized on both PVE and PVPers instead of just pure PVPer who whined because everyone is doing PVE. If CCP begins updating Lev 4's for example and fix the empire LP stores then I believe the PCU would make a rebound back up to 2013 levels.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
231
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Posted - 2015.11.14 03:16:22 -
[77] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Furyan Vakko wrote:Any ideas on when this is coming to Eve ? ~1 year before they shutdown the servers
More truth in this than you realize. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
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Posted - 2015.11.14 16:26:56 -
[78] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Jared Khanar wrote:Dear CCP,
nearly a month has passed now since you started the exploration of "the character bazaar and skill trading". Feedback has been gathered, enough voices have spoken.
What have you decided to do? It-¦s about time you start to tell us!
o7 They are figuring: - plausible denial of some opposing arguments - ways to ignore some opposing arguments - fine tuning based on favorable arguments - fine tuning based on some opposing arguments The idea is going to go through. CCP wants extra money from EVE and they just can't get it from extra subscriptions because of circunstances spanning since 5 or more years ago. Also CCP still isn't ready to go free to play since they know it's a last resort and the game would become financially unsustainable after it, so they will try a few other things before that. Sadly, none of the things they will try will be in the line of improving the game and thus retention of the highsec solo PvE herd. They simply don't have the resources to do that AND implement the Hallelujah plan.
Well said and very good analysis.
I'm convince now that CCP knows what it means if they implement THAT feature into this fantastic game. If Eve really is dying then I can't blame them for milking the cow of all it's milk before butchering it. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
276
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Posted - 2015.12.03 12:09:37 -
[79] - Quote
Has there been any update from CCP concerning this? |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
276
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Posted - 2015.12.04 00:55:03 -
[80] - Quote
Amanda Orion wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Has there been any update from CCP concerning this? No. The purpose of this thread was solely to gauge the level of anger. Now they will compare the level of anger vs the extra profit, and make their decision.
The debate should be then if it's worth it to destroy Eve in the long run in order to make a good chunk of change in the short run.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
276
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Posted - 2015.12.04 01:03:44 -
[81] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:BTW. Time ago, l already suggested a bypass to the "SP frustration". Suggested to do that by letting players "borrow" SP inmediately, in exchange for a slower SP acquisiton rate afterwards. Say, a player haves 3 months left of subcription and would earn 5 million SP in that period. Let him capitalize 2.5 million inmediately and then half the acquisition rate until the 3 months expire. So he can fly "that ship" now, but any futher improvement will be slower. CCP, you know, could even sell for AUR the necessary device... maybe call it a "Fast Injection Skilling Helper" or FISH.
Not quite right there.
A better option would be if they buy 2 mill SP then they can't train any skills at all for 2 months. The general idea is that it's better to train skills regularly but if you want SP injection immediately then it's gonna take twice as long to train for anything else.
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