Implants aren't going to bother the wealthy, this is going to be one of the biggest passive income generators ever. All the people see are instant skill points and there will be plenty of people providing the cows to be milked.

So the $60,000 dollars they make each month from transfers is fantasy too ???? Then the sale of the plexes to actually buy the toons, noticed they've not offered up that info either. If real money is involved it just devalues the whole game.

Confirmed. Plexes devalues the whole game.

Where is the passive income going to come from? Each account creating the SP is a plex of cost, plus the cost of the extractors. If 1 plex per 4 Extractorss is correct then you need to make 2 plex per account to break even, assuming you don't need to boost your chars to 5 mil sp to begin with (3 plex per char starting cost). Given you could just sell the plex in the first place the gain per char per month is also going to have to be worth said farmers time, plus there are transaction costs (in game and often IRL) meaning you are looking at least 10 or 20% return on investment for anyone to bother doing it. So unless the market value of a TSP reaches 60% the value of a plex nobody is ever going to farm it.

Given that there will be a flooded market with people unloading unwanted SP, and others constantly trading back their SP for sub time or consolidating characters, the SP market cost is not going to be dictated by SP farmers for a long time, if ever. The source of isk rich individuals willing to drop a plex of isk on buying 1 days SP is going to run dry pretty fast.

If it ever was an issue CCP can just cap TSP use per month. If a char is limited to producing 2 TSP a month for example, the TSP cost would need to be twice as much (well over the cost of a plex) for it to be worth farming. Similarly if a char was limited to injecting even 10 TSP a month it would pretty much nullify the effect of these imagined super rich TSP junkies.

CCP only needs to exhibit a small amount of common sense for pretty much every valid concern over this proposal to be answered. Whether they will show that common sense or not is up to them,

Seeing as you don't even grasp basic math i will not even to bother dignifying this tripe with an answer.

Rote answer for someone with nothing to say.

Thats funny, it is about 50-50 for the other 200 pages after people actually looked ta the proposal, i wonder why you stopped checking ...

??????


The PLeX has an intrinsic value that is tied to the core of the game - Time, but also an arbitrary value of money. The time value can never alter its set in stone, but the attributes of the players can all be removed so as not to hinder any player in gaining the exact same amount of skill point's in any given time period. With the introduction of the TSP its arbitrary value can alter its already inflated value and can also be manipulated directly by CCP by controlling the commodity in game. e.g.

Plex Market Price 300 million isk
( 30 days ) ++4 = 7.5 days (500k @ optimum training ) + extractor cost ( ? ) + profit margin ( % )
1 TSP =75 million isk + extractor cost + profit margin.

Plex Market Price 1 Billion isk
( 30 days ) ++4 = 7.5 days (500k @ optimum training ) + extractor cost ( ? ) + profit margin ( % )
1 TSP =250 million isk + extractor cost + profit margin.

Plex Market Price 2 Billion isk
( 30 days ) ++4 = 7.5 days (500k @ optimum training ) + extractor cost ( ? ) + profit margin ( % )
1 TSP =500 million isk + extractor cost + profit margin.

The players will never control the price of the TSP only the PLeX will. All the above is based on optimum training attribs, they change dramatically when your getting lower sp values per month.

Once a character has hit the 5 mill sweet spot every week when using optimized attribs he generates 1 packet to sell, now times that by X number of characters

You wil only make the profit margin off plex'd accounts but unlimited amounts from subbed farms .... Are you under some illusion that people will be giving there skill points away at bargain bin prices or something

Except its not truth, there is far more against this idea but couple of spammers made it look like its 50-50 in the pro and con posts.

I do not read reddit so I do not know.

Except its not truth, there is far more against this idea but couple of spammers made it look like its 50-50 in the pro and con posts.

Levi he call you a spammer and you liked it?


It explains why do you think that way. Maybe you need to start read it right now to proof that I was wrong... again.

No, there are far more spammers against than for. In the last 10 pages individual posters it is 17-14 in favour of against, with a surprisingly large number not expressing an opinion either way. The majority of those pages are filled by 5 spammers who are against it while I who have posted most in favour have less than half the number of posts each of them does. It has clearly struck a nerve with the forum chattering classes (many of whom automatically attack CCP at every opportunity regardless) even if most actual players don't really care either way.

[quote=Doddy]

You cannot estimate whole thread based on latest 10 pages. I have read every single page since the start and I suggest you do the same if you want to get the real picture. I agree that both sides have couple of "fighters" (most of the "against" ones are actually just making noise and not really contributing to the thread, like the two mentioned in my post above). If we count only characters which expressed pro and con for the change regardless of the post count, it is far more of those who are against it on this topic.

Fair enough, but given the original comment was made by someone who only read the first 10 pages and decided it was 90% against (which it wasn't even if you count the vets complaining about the diminishing returns) 50-50 is far more accurate. I too have read every page (wish i hadn't, most is nonsense) and I don't know what you mean by "far more" but I think you have been influenced more by the "against" spam posts per page than I have by the "for" spam posts. The entire middle hundred pages is pretty much "against" spammers shooting down anybody who dares to express a contrary opinion.

I did not call Levi spammer, its Dave, you and similar ones.

couple of spammers made it look like its 50-50 in the pro and con posts.

Also I did not comment on reddit, as he was referring to this topic only.

By far more i mean that it is 75%-25% for those who are against it. If not even more. Regardless of that, CCP obviously does not give a sh*t about what feedback players have. They will obviously do as they intended and calculate side effects when they count canceled subscriptions and based on them estimate the numbers or those who also probably do not like it but not as much to make them quit. Yet. Though, maybe if financial situation gets better with this, maybe they wont even care about those who quit. We will see.

Please be more specific when you insulting someone.

Can you extend yor list with con-mans? Because it looks like your list is quite biased.

And I'm pointing out that eve-o not the only source of opinions.

I think you are seeing what you want to see to be honest.

I can say the same, but I wont. Math is beautiful thing, even basic one and all the posters can be counted.

No, you are the one under the illusion the plex will control the price. This would be the case only if there was no pre-existing sp in the eve universe, and everybody who is now training skills was doing so for profit. It also assumes that the sp produced by the farmers (which everyone now is in your world) will always match the demand for TSPs (apparently coming from other farmers). All that you have done is calculate the values for a TSP at which point farming becomes profitable. The only difference between your "Math" and my "Maths" is that i have included an estimated cost for the extractor. As it is absolutely any sale of non-farmed SP can push price down and eat into profit margin. By your way of it no value is attached to the access to the game previous subs allowed, nor the game play benefits having those skills provided, all players will expect to get the plex value back despite having used it for game time. That is clearly nuts and not going to happen.

The account being subbed or plexed is irrelevant, it is the same value of RL money and whatever happens you could buy a plex to sell instead. The only profit the farmer will get from his farming rather than just exchanging rl cash to isk via plex is the profit margin from your equation. This profit margin is subject to supply and demand. If supply outstrips demand sp produced by non-farmers will undercut farmers doing it for profit and make farming unprofitable (or at leat make profits so low its pointless) instantly. As such farming would be impractical while there was any meaningful historical supply (one assumes there will be a huge amount of TSP dumped when the proposal becomes reality, probably making farming impossible for months if not years) coming from outside farming, and a massive risk even when such supplies were low (changes implemented by CCP to any part of the game could see players dumping SP). Given farming is competitive, profit margin would never get very high even when demand outstripped supply since it would only encourage more competition until an equilibrium was reached. Unlike other farming in eve there would be no way to remove competition (rival isk farmers can be overcome by restricting thier access to isk sources) and only undercutting on the market would be possible.

CCP can also control both supply and demand by capping how many TSP a player can consume in a month and how many TSP a player can create in a month. As such even if such limits were not in place from TSPs introduction, the fact they could implement it at any time would be a massive deterrent to farmers.

You quoted my post which had clearly stated quote where it was visible that we are discussing about THIS topic. Yet you have decided to spam more and comment on something we did not even mention.

I am not sure if you actually went behind and saw how many of your posts got deleted. If that ain`t clear message about quality of your posts then I doubt anyone can draw it for you :)

"Just giving more depth in your thought" as you might say. If you found my posts irrelevant than you could just ignore them.

Funny that you mention it. Your previous "proof" had erased but my post still there.

Except it will not happen, no matter how much you spam without any real arguments. Even if it happens, you would not play for too long before the game dies. Lose-Lose scenario for you :/

If a farm is plex'd its using in game currency to keep it going, If its being subbed the only thing your going to expend on is the extractor everything else is profit. To sub a month is $15 / -ú9.99 to plex is equivalent to $25 / -ú16.99 big difference.

So your saying that even though the plex gives a base price alone for your skill points - TSP pilots are just going to make up some random figure to sell them at ???

Interesting that you call spammer only those who pro but no one who agianst. You don't bother even if they present their opinions without any arguments. Are you replying only on "spam" which you don't like?

Thats funny, it is about 50-50 for the other 200 pages after people actually looked ta the proposal, i wonder why you stopped checking ...

They are going to sell them for what they can get for them.... What part of supply and demand do you not understand?

It is like any product in any market which can be produced (sp which is farmed), but is also created as a by-product by another process (sp which has become unwanted). The by-product will make normal production unprofitable if demand is not high, and will always depress price. Easy in game example is tier 1 modules, people who picked them up ratting would sell them for less than people could build them for, therefore people stopped building them. Simples. People did not decide not to sell thier t1 loot because it was below build price.

In what world does somebody who has decided they want to cash in 10 mil of industry sp they don't use going look at 240 mil/TSP and think "outrageous, it should be 250mil because that is how much a farmer could make it for" and not sell it? Nobody will think that, they will follow the market, and in doing so the farmers profit margin is gone.

The discrepancy between plex and direct paid sub does give a subbed farmer more leeway, it is still far from "all profit". (It also shows why even by your own reasoning a months of SP is not worth a plex, since it could just as well be worth the sub price.)

They spend -ú9.99 on a sub and however much 4 extractors will cost (say -ú7 for simplicity, could be more or less) -> 1 month later they get 4 TSP they can sell for whatever the market value of isk 4 TSP is worth.

They spend -ú16.99 on a plex and they can sell it now for 1 Billion

They only make a profit over selling plex if TSP price stays over 1/4 of a plex. There is also a months delay, during which time SP dumping could push the price below 1/4 plex but the farmer is already committed. So it always has higher risk than just selling the plex.

Whether farming is profitable is entirely decided whether there are more people willing to sell TSP for less than 1/4 plex or more willing to buy them for more than 1/4 plex. It is soley down to supply and demand of SP. The only base cost is the cost of the extractor. The value of plex is irrelevant other than deciding the point farming will become profitable.

Obviously if demand is extreme CCP might need to limit it, but that is rather straight forward.

Thanks for adding post by divine intervention btw, as his posts truly show argumentless cheering where he only insults others

I am not insulting, just stating obvious

I am in mood I will challenge trolls and spammers.

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

He might say

Euphemisms and double standarts is powerful stuff but they can work both ways.