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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Erotisk Folkdans
Club Autism
0
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Posted - 2016.01.18 00:33:45 -
[6451] - Quote
Why would I care if people get "perfect" alts? Good for them. If that is what they want in their ocd world.
Newish players would be able to train the skills they feel is needed to be competitive in one or a few fields they enjoy, in a more reasonable time frame. It's awesome.
I'm sure there are adjustments to be made to the proposal in the dev blog, but the general idea is great.
A poll in the forums would be useless. Most people in these forums don't seem to care about what is good for the game long term.
A poll that was mailed out to all players, including those who quit, would perhaps be useful. |
Gin Sling
Karma Is For Bitches Sunshine and Gunpowder
4
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Posted - 2016.01.18 16:58:03 -
[6452] - Quote
Is it possible to hang in Jita atm?
Lieing cockroaches.
Gin o7 |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1319
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Posted - 2016.01.18 17:08:55 -
[6453] - Quote
This will just make it more difficult for those who don't have or don't want to spend a lot of RL money to play Eve. I've played and still play a few pay to win (P2W) games but can't compete since it's not uncommon for people to drop 10,000 USD on some of these games. I've seen people spend over ten times that.
Just from a purely business perspective CCP should consider if profits from those who spend a bunch of RL money will be more than the many that leave the game because they can't. Also will that group stay longer or just get bored and stop playing. It may be that financially it makes more sense to adopt a P2W model.
I won't say I'll stop playing Eve just because it becomes P2W but I will cut back because I don't invest too much in those games as a rule. Again that's just me and others may be more welcoming of the change, |
J0rj Lmoz
EVE University Ivy League
10
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Posted - 2016.01.18 18:42:24 -
[6454] - Quote
Is it going to have, a limit to the number of times we can inject/extract skill points per time ?
Or an alliance/players with unlimited resources now is going to be able to make all his alts fly Titans in one month ?
With a limited number of injection/extraction of skills per time, will make this a good thing, making impossible or at least unrewarding to skill farming, without that CCP is taking away the rewards of time dedication to the Game, and making Eve a even more P2W without any rewards for being playing the game for more than one year. |
Gaufres
Just Keep Hanging On
67
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Posted - 2016.01.18 18:46:19 -
[6455] - Quote
I do not like to threaten, but I think CCP is making a serious mistake with this. I am going to see how it goes, but I am seriously thinking about canceling my account and giving all my stuff to my corpmates. This game is and has been taking some seriously bad turns for a while now. I do not really know who they thing they are "helping" with this, but I see it as a huge hit to the older players. |
Jayden Thomas
Manson Family Advent of Fate
9
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Posted - 2016.01.18 19:07:56 -
[6456] - Quote
Devs are no longer the bright sparks of the CCP think tank. They are now the shady, fund raising Aurum salesman of Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson. "Quick, more ship skins!"
It's not a sandbox if people can correct their mistakes. "Buy our plex! Fix those bad training decisions!" |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1856
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Posted - 2016.01.18 21:25:09 -
[6457] - Quote
IIshira wrote:This will just make it more difficult for those who don't have or don't want to spend a lot of RL money to play Eve. How?
Jayden Thomas wrote:It's not a sandbox if people can correct their mistakes. I'm not sure sandbox means what you think it means. |
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
3303
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Posted - 2016.01.18 21:38:31 -
[6458] - Quote
Given that it is no longer in the 'explore' phase and into the 'gonna happen' I suggest this thread close and we shift to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6283770#post6283770 instead
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Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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Josef Djugashvilis
3101
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Posted - 2016.01.18 22:21:41 -
[6459] - Quote
Sad that it is going to happen, but inevitable given that CCP simply want (need) more of our money.
The bit that sticks in my craw is the pretence that it is for the benefit of 'new' players to enable them to close the skills gap.
A money grab is a money grab, however it is presented.
This is not a signature.
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Sergeant L
CPE1704TKS SWARTA.
3
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Posted - 2016.01.18 23:23:16 -
[6460] - Quote
CCP, How about a counter proposal to help EVE continue and let lower player get rewarded for their play time. I think its time before we loose more new players to continue the system in place with passive training but start a new phase for exp. That's right I am talking about all of those players that put allot of time into playing. Time for some rewards and fighting for exp. CCP how about this: Just like you did with the blood raiders expansion which was cool, a way to speed up training. Lets face it the whole player base went wild! So, lets spice it up. Drop the following loot from killing the NPC's and sleepers in a small box container with SP to put wherever you want just right click and it becomes free skill points or sell it on the market in some given CCP determined block increments but drop the following in the loot for PVE: Frig: 1 sp, Cruiser: 3 sp, BS 5 sp, bigger ship 10 sp. PVP frig kill (5) (noob ships don't count) Cruiser (15sp), BS (25), Cap (100) and Titan (1000). Of course none of these are automatic either and drop with the loot of the killed enemy. Time for some wonderful scrapping over wrecks and loots. You saw what blood raiders did, imagine the rush on this! Can we say fighting and of course for CCP Plex as people sell and buy like mad to get ahead! Please stop using the excuse of old players get squeezed and will quit. They need to grow up, we need new blood for EVE to continue! Cheers! |
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Ein Herje
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.01.19 04:14:24 -
[6461] - Quote
Yes I can understand to a certain extent where CCP is coming from with this, it will be awsome to get more players into the game, but don't you also think that there should be a cap so that older players don't feel like it's all been a waste for them, subscribing all this time getting all those skills up there?
Say something like 60-80 mill skillpoints you can make an awsome whatever pilot with that. (I think) I don't care about the finance, I want CCP to earn money I have nothing against that, but let it still be something special to have accumulated 100 of millions of skillpoints. The old players have carried the game this far by keeping their subs active you know. And the new brave eve pilots as well of course. (I am not referring to any entities ingame.)
But yes pay to win is always bad for any game. Someone at CCP should just figure out how much skills it takes to get dreads or carriers skills to lvl 4 everything included reps cap transfer and siege/triage and cap it right there.Also do the same for the industry aspect of the game try to find somewhere lvl 4 something something industry wise add it together divide by two and theres your cap.
Well I know that there are many aspects of eve that I have not included it's an awsome game with lots of possibilities. I read some of the forums and people who welcome this say that ah yes and still you can always go to the character bazaar and get a 200 + mill char instantly. I doubt it that someone who started playing eve yesterday has 150+ billion to buy these high skillpoints chars.
I welcome it with open arms if there would be implemented a cap for it. |
James- Taylor
Valor Evolved Order of Allied Knights
0
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Posted - 2016.01.19 10:18:36 -
[6462] - Quote
If CCP implements this im done with EVE...................Im somewhat new and i dont agree with this at all. |
seronea
An My I N F A M O U S
11
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Posted - 2016.01.19 11:59:50 -
[6463] - Quote
makes me sad seeing you boxing that trough, ignoring all this no's. |
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
78
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Posted - 2016.01.19 13:12:57 -
[6464] - Quote
James- Taylor wrote:If CCP implements this im done with EVE...................Im somewhat new and i dont agree with this at all.
Yeah they went for it, new thread here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=465295&find=unread |
Snitches Laden
Dank Meme Division
0
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Posted - 2016.01.19 15:01:20 -
[6465] - Quote
Okay so for the most part I see "bitter vets" stating this is bad, this is terrible, but not explaining why this is bad or this is terrible which would lead me to conclude that it cuts into their elite status of having mongo sp from playing forever. And for those that have been playing for a long time have every right to feel such a way because this is going to erase that elitist gap of having to wait years to accomplish your goals.
So now that that is out of the way I would like to point out something that everyone seems to constantly ignore. What's the difference between buying a character off of the character bazaar and buying a skill point pack? other than the functionality it's virtually the same. when you look for characters on the bazaar you look for the skills. What you want verus what it has, and sometimes you get everything other times you have to make sacrifices. Than the bidding starts, this character is more valuable than this other character but the other has less skill points. with the sp packs you the buyer decide where those points are spent, and the value of the sp are fixed so that if placed in skill a it will cost the same if placed in group b.
We've all met the person in this game with more money than they know what to do with, they purchase a capital toon, get a bunch of caps and derp em. You know why right? It's not because they have a crap ton of skill points they purchased off of the character bazaar. It's because they lack the understanding on how the game works, one of the biggest reasons I love to play this game is for the social aspect of it. Caps go to Arridia to die someone once told me. I don't know why but I believe it and don't fly **** over there, not to mention ships in this game regardless of how many skill points fly completely different and require a different rl skill set and mind set to successfully operate. So allowing someone to spend a couple of grand to inject skills into their toon isn't going to break the game, because they still won't be able to inject time, and understanding.
To the "bitter vets" out there that are viewing this as bad, i'm unsubbing, attitude realize one thing please. You will always have my envy and respect if for no other reason than you've put your time in. Most of the newer players have a similar sentiment on the situation. But understand that the reason your still able to play this game is because there are those that have come after you and followed your trail blazing and wish to emulate what you've become. You are a dinosaur and every year due to real life happening the dinosuars are slowly going extinct. CCP is allowing you the opportunity to inject new life into this game, the skill points won't change the learning difficulty, it won't change the volumes of knowledge needed to thrive in this game, and it won't change the fact that you need critical thinking skills. Change is difficult, if it wasn't everyone would be able to do it.
I would say before you liquefy or unsub, think about that guy who's gonna drop 3 grand to sp the crap out of their toon, and ask how can I teach this person to enjoy the game so they don't waste my time or theirs, and how can I continue to make this game a thriving community. |
Sniffwomang
Masters and Mistresses
0
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Posted - 2016.01.19 15:51:28 -
[6466] - Quote
horrible idea, please do not go through with this, this is literally paying to win, since a lot of things require training for and time to put into it you can simply pay money for it and get it right away. This is one thing I liked about eve no matter how much ISK you have you still needed to skills and practice to use it effectively, this takes away half of that challenge.
DO NOT GO THROUGH WITH THIS!
A concerned player.
Sniff |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1321
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Posted - 2016.01.19 16:47:03 -
[6467] - Quote
Sniffwomang wrote:horrible idea, please do not go through with this, this is literally paying to win, since a lot of things require training for and time to put into it you can simply pay money for it and get it right away. This is one thing I liked about eve no matter how much ISK you have you still needed to skills and practice to use it effectively, this takes away half of that challenge.
DO NOT GO THROUGH WITH THIS!
A concerned player.
Sniff
CCP has already decided to go through with it. When it comes down to it they're a business so they're going to do whatever it is they feel makes them the most money. Some people might say "They don't care about their player base"... Of course they don't!... You can fall off a cliff as long as your credit card information is updated by your family CCP is good to go. That sounds rude but that's the same with any business. At least in the USA where I am located.
Now as I said before they only care about money so if they see the extra money they're making from selling SP is being offset by a loss of subscriptions then they will rethink the idea. Do I think this will happen?... Probably not. The pay to win idea is so popular because it's just like real life. If you have a lot of money you do well. Just like in real life people who want to outclass others will spend the money to do so.
Do I personally like the idea... No but that's only because I'm not one who can drop 10k for a video game. This is why I don't really get into pay to win games. Perhaps if I had that kind of money I would think it was an awesome idea. |
Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
228
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Posted - 2016.01.19 18:12:33 -
[6468] - Quote
This thread is pure gold, ty CCP.
Snitches Laden wrote: bunch of nonsense.
lol yeah, #"make EVE great, again". |
Alexxei
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2016.01.19 20:13:54 -
[6469] - Quote
seronea wrote:makes me sad seeing you boxing that trough, ignoring all this no's. For the 20 or so no's from angry bitter nerds theres about 200,000 yes's |
Talon Calais
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2016.01.19 21:03:54 -
[6470] - Quote
I think it's a great idea with the exception of "diminishing returns". As someone who will never fly a Capital Ship again after the implementation of Jump Fatigue I very much like the idea of being able to reallocate those skill points to myself or one of my alts, but not if it's going to cost me a bazillion isk. Please don't penalize people for having too many skill points, your vets are every bit as much important to this game as new players. |
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A Ingus
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
91
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Posted - 2016.01.19 22:49:06 -
[6471] - Quote
Alexxei wrote:seronea wrote:makes me sad seeing you boxing that trough, ignoring all this no's. For the 20 or so no's from angry bitter nerds theres about 200,000 yes's We have always been at war with Eastasia.
Amirite? |
MECHcore
Evil Celes Death from Above..
45
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Posted - 2016.01.20 00:15:57 -
[6472] - Quote
234m SP here took me 12 years.
A new player with a rich daddy and hes credit card will be able to do that in a month.
Hmm i might eventually change to another MMO.
Quote:Achieving something in this game is not about hard work, skill and experience anymore, but by credit card. - MECHcore
Shame on you CCP !!1 |
Mister Holder
Faceless Men
40
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Posted - 2016.01.20 00:31:59 -
[6473] - Quote
I've read through quite a bit of the posts in here, and not once does anyone give a real argument as to why this is a bad idea. So please, someone enlighten me as to how this is bad for Eve.
As it stands, right at this moment, I can go load up on a crap ton of PLEX to purchase a 200m+ SP toon. Or I could purchase a toon that has the exact skill set that I want with no waste.
When the skill exchange is implemented, I can load up on a crap ton of PLEX, and build a 200m+ SP toon the way I want it with the name/race/etc that I want. This, I would assume, will be at a MUCH higher cost than it would be to purchase a similar toon with 200m+ SP from the bazaar via selling PLEX.
How exactly is this different, and "bad", and "wrong" from using direct plex purchases to turn into isk to turn into a toon? It seems, to me at least, that I can make a toon exactly how I want it instead of getting someone else's trash they no longer want.
Now, if you want to complain that there are diminishing returns the higher SP you go with the skill injections go right ahead. I hear you on that, and it annoys me as well. Otherwise, this is no different than using the character bazaar to purchase a toon. |
Nakito Kobara
Yamagata Syndicate Yulai Federation
59
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Posted - 2016.01.20 00:56:42 -
[6474] - Quote
Having played since beta I have to say this move seems to go far away from Eves original concept. Pay to just jump into any ship you want just doesn't sit well with me. Eve has sold is soul...
Yamagata Syndicate - Null sec combat corporation. Join today!
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Jayden Thomas
Manson Family Advent of Fate
10
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Posted - 2016.01.20 01:10:38 -
[6475] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:IIshira wrote:This will just make it more difficult for those who don't have or don't want to spend a lot of RL money to play Eve. How? With more uses for plex (Aurum), plex prices rise. For those of us not wanting to spend real money on EVE, rising plex prices pushes us out. Which is what CCP wants I imagine: more people who feel this game is worth $100 a year. Jayden Thomas wrote:It's not a sandbox if people can correct their mistakes. I'm not sure sandbox means what you think it means.
One big part of a sandbox is that each decision you make carries weight. Skill training is a very long process, ie a BIG decision. Allowing people to take shortcuts (or fix mistakes) in this incredibly long process sort of takes the weight out of the decision, at least for those of us that aren't paying CCP for ISK. Yup, lookin at you PLEX buyers. If you're one of the countless people who buy ISK, then I'm sure you see nothing wrong with this process. It cuts corners, it's quick, and gives you everything the veteran eve players have in exchange for real life cash.
I'm also bummed that CCP continues to cater to the newer and younger EVE pilots. Where's the love for their veteran players? How about free subscriptions if you have more than 5 years of game time on your account?
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1859
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 01:20:49 -
[6476] - Quote
Jayden Thomas wrote:One big part of a sandbox is that each decision you make carries weight. Skill training is a very long process, ie a BIG decision. Allowing people to take shortcuts (or fix mistakes) in this incredibly long process sort of takes the weight out of the decision, at least for those of us that aren't paying CCP for ISK. Yup, lookin at you PLEX buyers. If you're one of the countless people who buy ISK, then I'm sure you see nothing wrong with this process. It cuts corners, it's quick, and gives you everything the veteran eve players have in exchange for real life cash.
I'm also bummed that CCP continues to cater to the newer and younger EVE pilots. Where's the love for their veteran players? How about free subscriptions if you have more than 5 years of game time on your account? I'm not a person who buys isk, but I'm also not a person who expects a company that sells isk to adhere to the rules I make for myself and how I get isk. Nor am I willing to pretend the rules are something other than what they are because I don't take part is certain parts of them.
That aside, the weight of a choice doesn't actually define a sandbox. To a degree it may define THIS sandbox, but isn't an integral part of what a sandbox is. That's because this sandbox actually touts consequence as a selling point (while offering every way conceivable to circumvent it, PLEX being rather benign amongst other methods). And being a sandbox never means anything has to be permanent.
Fact of the matter though is that this idea does have consequence, just not the same consequence we were restricted to before. This isn't a boolean decision between permanence and inconsequential remapping. This is another in between, and a decently balanced one at that. |
Jayden Thomas
Manson Family Advent of Fate
10
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 01:59:37 -
[6477] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
That aside, the weight of a choice doesn't actually define a sandbox. To a degree it may define THIS sandbox, but isn't an integral part of what a sandbox is. That's because this sandbox actually touts consequence as a selling point (while offering every way conceivable to circumvent it, PLEX being rather benign amongst other methods). And being a sandbox never means anything has to be permanent.
Fact of the matter though is that this idea does have consequence, just not the same consequence we were restricted to before. This isn't a boolean decision between permanence and inconsequential remapping. This is another in between, and a decently balanced one at that.
It is worth $100 a year or more, whether you pay it yourself or someone else does. CCP doesn't actually need you to sub, and PLEX buyers doing so get them less money, so why would they want players saying the game is worth $100 a year when those players are currently paying ~$200 per year.
I agree, things don't have to be permanent. But I think skill training is slow enough, it should be permanent. Core skills will always be needed. And while some may think "dang I trained Gallente cruiser before Minmatar cruiser, the fact is one day, somewhere, you'll use it. For those that spent weeks training mining skills (you poor souls), I prefer to look on those the same way I look at my first loss-mails, mistakes as a noob. Can I get SRP from CCP for those lossmails now? Ha!
CCP does need us to sub, whether we pay or not. MMORPG's are popular because there are real life players in the game with you. If CCP pushes out all the non-paying players, I guarantee EVE would die.
PLEX buyers give them MORE money. PLEX buyers have to pay for a subscription AND isk. Not sure about your logic.. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1859
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 02:13:11 -
[6478] - Quote
Jayden Thomas wrote:I agree, things don't have to be permanent. But I think skill training is slow enough, it should be permanent. Core skills will always be needed. And while some may think "dang I trained Gallente cruiser before Minmatar cruiser, the fact is one day, somewhere, you'll use it. For those that spent weeks training mining skills (you poor souls), I prefer to look on those the same way I look at my first loss-mails, mistakes as a noob. Can I get SRP from CCP for those lossmails now? Ha! SRP isn't an system created by or maintained by CCP, it has nothing to do with what we're talking about as a purely social construct. Insurance on the other hand has been doing exactly what you just suggested since it was created.
But with the words "I think skill training is slow enough, it should be permanent" we have what I was pointing out: That's just like, your opinion man. It's certainly not a defining trait of a sandbox.
Quote:CCP does need us to sub, whether we pay or not. MMORPG's are popular because there are real life players in the game with you. If CCP pushes out all the non-paying players, I guarantee EVE would die. That makes a large assumption about the PLEX dependent population, one we don't have enough information to discuss further.
Jayden Thomas wrote:PLEX buyers give them MORE money. PLEX buyers have to pay for a subscription AND isk. Not sure about your logic.. PLEX buyers (in game) turning to sub players gets CCP less money exactly because PLEX cost more than a sub as stated, you were the one saying CCP wanted rid of those players rather than having them consume PLEX. |
Samus Arkain
Remnants of the Forgotten Seekers of the Unseen
1
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Posted - 2016.01.20 09:20:09 -
[6479] - Quote
I don't normally post on these forums. However, I will quit this game if it becomes as simple as a big wallet pays for skills. I have worked for years training a very specific skill plan, and the game will ruin such accomplishments overnight by this action. I have long tried to ignore the rumors that CCP no longer listens to its players and just does what it wants. However, in the most recent post they claim that a lot of players seem on board with this idea. A quick look through this set of comments show that is untrue. Clearly a great deal of players are upset with the idea, and you are more than likely about to make another decision that will significantly damage this game. Many players aren't even aware of what you're about to do, and when I notified them, they were very upset. Sadly, it's a decision that cannot be undone once made, as many characters will already be significantly altered only days after this action. So please, see it for what it is now, and do not ruin this excellent game.
TL:DR? Don't do it.
Sea. |
Roc Wind
Light of the moon Fraternity.
2
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Posted - 2016.01.20 12:55:08 -
[6480] - Quote
I am not an active player but I have been training my character since 2011. I spend 5 years to reach 100 m skill points and what makes me continue to be an EVE player is that in EVE the skill points is priceless, only the time matters. CCP, I am an old player and if you just evaluate me by the money I spent in EVE I will be very sad and you will be totally wrong. In the past I could introduce to my friend the EVE game proudly because it is sophisticated and need real time to learn skill, but now I can only say it is good because you can get skill very quickly. I miss the time I got up in midnight to update my skill, I miss the time I traveled everywhere with my laptop in order to update my skill and I miss the time I lost my internet and begged my friend to help me update my skill. I treasure the skill points because you can't buy it, just like you can't buy the time. I felt EVE was like the real life, only time will teach me how to be a mature man. Now, honestly speaking, I can't stand some new guys could catch up with me on the skill points with some ISK. Once money could dominate a society in most aspects, no matter virtual or real, the society will be no longer suitable for living.
I think it is time to leave my favorite EVE after you implement this mechanic. I have no reason to stay in this cruel and money-mad world. |
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