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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1324
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 19:22:42 -
[6481] - Quote
Roc Wind wrote:I am not an active player but I have been training my character since 2011. I spend 5 years to reach 100 m skill points and what makes me continue to be an EVE player is that in EVE the skill points is priceless, only the time matters. CCP, I am an old player and if you just evaluate me by the money I spent in EVE I will be very sad and you will be totally wrong. In the past I could introduce to my friend the EVE game proudly because it is sophisticated and need real time to learn skill, but now I can only say it is good because you can get skill very quickly. I miss the time I got up in midnight to update my skill, I miss the time I traveled everywhere with my laptop in order to update my skill and I miss the time I lost my internet and begged my friend to help me update my skill. I treasure the skill points because you can't buy it, just like you can't buy the time. I felt EVE was like the real life, only time will teach me how to be a mature man. Now, honestly speaking, I can't stand some new guys could catch up with me on the skill points with some ISK. Once money could dominate a society in most aspects, no matter virtual or real, the society will be no longer suitable for living.
I think it is time to leave my favorite EVE after you implement this mechanic. I have no reason to stay in this cruel and money-mad world.
Don't quit just yet... I think it still can be a fun game. I'll still play but since they made it where can buy SP it just took some of my love of the game away. I'll probably condense the pilots I like most to one (maybe two) account and just keep it subbed. That's probably not a bad thing because I spend too much time in the virtual world and not enough in the real one.
I even thought about a ganking alt... Nothing like getting blown up by a one day old max skilled Catalyst pilot. I can help bring joyous PVP fun to some of the whiny players CCP has been catering too
The recent changes to Eve remind me of the changes to WoW that started a while back. People cried that something was hard so they made it easier... For a price of course. Don't feel like leveling up your toon?... Just enter those credit card digits and get it instantly leveled. Feel like an idiot because you made a bad choice in race or class?... No problem again credit card numbers please. I guess this is how RL is headed too. People want things handed to them so naturally it's going to reflect in what game companies offer. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1324
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 19:40:41 -
[6482] - Quote
Jayden Thomas wrote:One big part of a sandbox is that each decision you make carries weight. Skill training is a very long process, ie a BIG decision. Allowing people to take shortcuts (or fix mistakes) in this incredibly long process sort of takes the weight out of the decision, at least for those of us that aren't paying CCP for ISK. I'd agree that the sandbox has changed. You mentioned the whole consequences for your mistakes but this is nothing new. Look at the clone changes. Remember when you had to buy a clone and if you were too stupid to you lost SP?
Jayden Thomas wrote:I'm also bummed that CCP continues to cater to the newer and younger EVE pilots. Where's the love for their veteran players? How about free subscriptions if you have more than 5 years of game time on your account? This has been going on for a while. Loyalty is great and all but if they can do something that attracts five noobs that means more subscriptions. They're paying the same monthly subscription for their 900k SP pilot as your 100m one. Even if you quit they're still up four subs. Now lets say even if only two of the original five continue to play after a few months they just doubled their subscriptions. Combine this with making more ways to spend RL cash and their profits go up! I hate to say it but CCP is going to profit from this at least in the short run.
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
696
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Posted - 2016.01.20 20:48:17 -
[6483] - Quote
What will happen of course is people will train their own alts and inject the points they gain through multi-training into their main, speeding up the training process in the extreme. If that's what you're after.. congrats.. Also say you have a really nasty character with a terrible rep.. he scammed a ton of people and stole a whole bank worth of ISK... Owner shaves off the skills and profits on an anonymous and easier to play character - thus, in theory, escaping some of the consequences his actions ...and in effect changing his character name.
It's a interesting twist in the "selling skill points" idea... I'm not sure I could accept it.
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1324
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 21:11:21 -
[6484] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:What will happen of course is people will train their own alts and inject the points they gain through multi-training into their main, speeding up the training process in the extreme. If that's what you're after.. congrats.. Also say you have a really nasty character with a terrible rep.. he scammed a ton of people and stole a whole bank worth of ISK... Owner shaves off the skills and profits on an anonymous and easier to play character - thus, in theory, escaping some of the consequences his actions ...and in effect changing his character name.
It's a interesting twist in the "selling skill points" idea... I'm not sure I could accept it. Yea that's another interesting concept that will happen. People will recycle their SP into new pilots... This is one way to get away from a killboard or bad rep that you no longer want to have.
One main complaint I have about this is they should make it fair to older high SP pilots. I don't see how this would hurt newer pilots and it would still allow older pilots to use the feature. 70 percent SP loss is just silly. If you're going to make the game "New player friendly" it's whatever but you don't need to be hostile towards older players... Even noobs become veterans at some point. I still remember my first Cormorant fitted with a mix of blasters, railguns, and autocannons... |
Tobias Lee
0rizen Irregulars Sev3rance
0
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Posted - 2016.01.21 20:49:34 -
[6485] - Quote
I have been playing EVE since 2003, I do not agree with this and will have 8 months subscription remaining in February, if this happens I want the rest of my game time refunded cause I will quit. |
Captain IQ
Innocent Traders Ltd
68
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Posted - 2016.01.22 00:02:11 -
[6486] - Quote
Even though I suspect this is a foregone conclusion, I'll just putting my hands up to say "Don't Do It!!"
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Vanessa Mangeiri
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.01.22 08:09:12 -
[6487] - Quote
If you remove all the SP for a skill is the skill removed?
Or does it still remain injected?
Those of us with OCD would like to know. |
Tamreal Orti
Random Reality
0
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Posted - 2016.01.22 14:23:37 -
[6488] - Quote
Hate the Idea of PAY to Win. So now you want to introduce an opportunity for players to BUY the SP's needed to be a success in the game. If you want to put something else on the market for players to buy with their ISK open the market to LP trading. I and many others always need more LP than we can generate alone, at least with LP trading the acquisition would not bypass TRAINING time that SHOULD be EARNED not bought. |
Anabuki Tomoko
Touch of Death
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.22 14:40:59 -
[6489] - Quote
can't w8 for this. as a new player, the ability to get 500k skill points fast is GREAT for trying out new ships and getting into the game (Manticore, Confessor, Jackdaw, Retriever, Covetor, maybe even a cov ops venture)
its a much needed boost for new players =D
so this way, instead of w8ing for 2 WEEKS to get a mining barge, or cov ops ship, or t3 destroyer. i can pay a bit and get it now.
which beats w8ing 2 WEEKS, during which time i get bored w8ing and wander off to other games because fk w8ing 2 weeks in the venture to get a mining barge =/
(no seriously. as much as i like Kestrel. w8ing 2 weeks to get manticore is lame. on top of that i cant use manticore effectively until i get cloaking 4..so thats another few days. oh and torpedos. so another few days....and so on.....it really adds up) |
voids
Deep Space Exploitation Federal United Battalion of Armed Renegades
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.22 21:52:44 -
[6490] - Quote
I have been watching this and I say it makes sense, even more so it also makes sense to have name changes , quite simple really, if you want to escape a bad char you already can by buying a new char You want to get more skill points you can again; buy a new char , so what does it really matter that someone swipes skill points from alt to a main or vice versa its gonna cost them either way , however I do feel that it is bad to penalize sp period, after all everyone still has to pay for injectors or the other part so penalizing sp that was hard earned over the years (with real life money and time) seems silly imho if you want to limit amount of sp limit it but don't take it away. make special injectors for levels that will only extract and supply 150k -500k 1-50m sp gets 500k injectors 50 to 100m sp gets 250k injectors and 100-200m gets 150k injectors. |
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Oreb Wing
Black Fox Marauders
134
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Posted - 2016.01.22 23:12:25 -
[6491] - Quote
Opinion on pricing of the Skill Extractor:
This is an extract from some searching I did. Original poster was Tony Moor:
(Lowest Possible SP per hour) "Previously the lowest possible sp/hr was 450. This was if you had 5 for both applicable attributes, no learning skills and no implants (although this ignores the fact that it was in fact possible to have an attribute below 5 on certain racial types if you had never remapped)
Now the minimum sp/hr is 1,530. This is with minimum attributes of 17 and no implants.
So, assuming no gaps in training, the minimum you will now earn in an average length month (30.417 days) is 1,116,900."
If this still holds true, I think the extractors should be priced at a decent $10-$15 bucks (USD). Pretty high, in my opinion, but it will average to about twice that amount in the market after the boom, i'd say. What people are basically paying for is the extractor cost and the accumulation of time, in terms of the 500k SP gained, required to fill a single extractor.
Median SP per hour was averaged to about 2000? I think this leaves plenty of room for fair trading in what they decide their time is worth, along with how much they think the extractor is worth after AURUM - which would fall to about 2000-2500 AUR. In the end, they will be nearly as expensive as what a PLEX is going for ATM. 2000 is not a bad number, as it would land on the mid-point AUR package as a sweet spot for acquiring two extractors.
So, about $10 bucks (USD) along with what equates to half a month of training pumped into an injector. That would round out easily to an ETC. I could live with that. And more importantly, noobs that would find this most appealing could live with that cost too. I doubt very much you will be seeing much P2W scenarios with this price point. It will be VERY expensive to reach 40-60mil SP, and a far shot to the moon in how expensive it will be to hit triple digit SP for a new character. So, I think many people are very much over exaggerating the P2W scenario. At most you will see people buying 3-4 of these to get a racial BS to V and top off lvl 4's with the remaining SP or something similar.
In time PLEX will probably double in value with this in the short term with people investing PLEX training time into SP vat-farming capsuleers with dual (future triple?) character training.
A huge ISK sink. Nerfed Incursions and WH escalations in the future maybe. The economy graphs will be wonderful to behold.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
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0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2016.01.24 03:09:11 -
[6492] - Quote
I started to think about this all more positive way since my last posts:
Actually can-¦t wait for new SP trade, I have dormant accounts with lots not needed skillpoints+chars, and almost ready chars for certain stuff not necessary to skill anymore, so I can just start SP farm and pay all my accounts by PLEX, and forgot grinding.
In fact, just start to finally have just fun again... Also more time for Elite and other games, then. |
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
402
|
Posted - 2016.01.24 11:05:35 -
[6493] - Quote
Morihei Akachi wrote:Looking back through bits of this thread and the ones at /r/eve, I get the impression that thereGÇÖs this huge disconnect between the advocates and the opponents of this idea. IGÇÖll confess that I genuinely donGÇÖt understand what is meant to be so attractive about skipping the training for a battleshipGÇöto take RiseGÇÖs example from his blogGÇöand just buying a character. My sense is that GÇ£characterGÇ¥ means no more than GÇ£chess pieceGÇ¥ in that scenario. The way you swap a pawn out for a queen the moment the opportunity presents itself.
Pawns, of course, don't have histories. They donGÇÖt make mistakes and learn from them, they donGÇÖt have stories one could tell. TheyGÇÖre just pieces on a board. Weapons to be used against an opponent. If a weapon is not good enough, you swap it out for a better one. IGÇÖm trying to grasp what I find so depressing about this approach, and it has to do with this notion of treating a character merely as a tool that you buy or sell or dismantle for parts / skill points. History, story, narrative within the world we call New Eden becomes completely superfluous at that moment. The only goal is pawning the other guy and total control over how that can be made to happen. DoesnGÇÖt Rise say that that is meant to be GÇ£EveGÇÖs core designGÇ¥: GÇ£player control above all elseGÇ¥? If that is true, there should be no constraints at all. Instant god-mode for everyone. Surely thatGÇÖs the logic of this position.
But I think Rise is wrong: GÇ£player control above all elseGÇ¥ is not the core design of Eve. I donGÇÖt think anyone (apart from him, apparently) thinks this. The challenge of Eve lies in there not being total control, in there being barriers and hindrances that force you to take a different path from the one you would have taken at first glance if all roads had lain open. I see considerable value in that. It makes Eve into a world that can surprise you, rather than just another virtual arena where the instant gratification crowd can live out its monotonous domination fantasies. (Perhaps that was a little uncharitable. But I really donGÇÖt get it.)
Hilmar tells a storyGÇöa little too often, maybeGÇöabout a mining cruiser back in the day. YouGÇÖve probably heard this. HeGÇÖs borrowed it from someone else in order to go mining and it gets blown up. HeGÇÖs unhappy, because his character doesnGÇÖt have the ISK to replace it. And then he thinks, hey, IGÇÖm the CEO of CCP, I could just wave a magic wand and make a cruiser, right? But he doesnGÇÖt. He mines for a whole week to get the cash together to buy a new cruiser on the market. Why? Because short-cutting the process would have entailed the admission that none of it was real.
That was the original vision of New Eden. A world where you canGÇÖt just dev hack or buy your way out of your biography. Because itGÇÖs real.
People are going to disagree with this violently and IGÇÖm fine with that. This is just my take on it, and an attempt to clarify for myself a little better why I find the idea of buying and selling a characterGÇÖs past so disheartening.
CCP Rise
nuff said
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games pay More to win at skill training time, now with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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winarie
Steel Fleet Phoenix Company Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2016.01.24 18:45:46 -
[6494] - Quote
There is nothing good about this idea, pleas pull the plug on it CCP, before your devalue all the work your dedicated players have put into their toons over the past decade or so.
If you really must go ahead with this though, at least make the diminishing returns taper off into nothing at around 80 mill or something.
win. |
GR455H0PPER
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.25 17:08:38 -
[6495] - Quote
i think i would pay to remap my own skills with no loss the the sp but i am not going to pump a load of monies into this game in its current state.
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Joseph Guillotine
CTRL-Q Spaceship Bebop
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.29 19:49:56 -
[6496] - Quote
This is just horrible bad ideal i don't support this at all lol |
Jim Georage
Warspite. DeepSpace.
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.31 22:54:56 -
[6497] - Quote
If CCP goes through with this, I will no longer play this game...... Absolutely the WORST idea i have heard yet |
Sophia Electra
HSIC
8
|
Posted - 2016.01.31 22:57:16 -
[6498] - Quote
Have to agree with people, I do not support this. |
Captain IQ
Innocent Traders Ltd
74
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 12:58:26 -
[6499] - Quote
I think there's some amazingly insightful comments that are coming from the NO Camp, many I hadn't even considered and many I doubt that CCP have either.
On an emotional level and something I'm sure older players will recognise is that the easy transference of SP means that basically our old characters are nothing more than hulks carrying skills that can be easily stripped away, rather than quirky characters with a bit of this and a bit of that that somehow makes us feel like they're individuals and unique to us, it does a lot to take away how we will feel about them.
Our first characters are full of mistakes making them feel more human, like our own characteristics, like our disposable and newer alts, those perfectly trained characters in the Bazaar are all specific, perfect and manufactured and they have no history or blemishes with which many of our affections are based on, if we feel less about our characters then I am sure we will feel less about this game. |
Trevier Bardou
Fondation Stellaire
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 17:04:31 -
[6500] - Quote
Ok, now as I'm aware about it, I wanna throw my hat into the ring aswell
I know, i paused the game for a longer period again (due to my personal time management), and started on Dec 4th with my 3 alts because I always loved the concept of this whole sandbox universe. Why did I came back the 3rd time, after being some time "offline"? Because of the charms Eve had in the past and because I'm convinced than Eve has a concept who can substain some more time More than this, I thought it might be a good idea to talk to some real-live friends if they wanna start with eve. And, surprise, they started with eve on the 6th and 7th of Dec, having fun since then in a cool sandbox universe!
PLEASE considere: Eve is the only MMO were you have such a this long time motivation, fair to said other games have other things, but this makes Eve precious and unique, defferent of the other 1000th MMOs
If SP trading will be made posible this means: - Pay to win! - No one cares about any Alt decisions you made, as you can easily create a new account and transfer everything to the new account. - Past of Eve Alts will be rewriten as players actions will be forgotten as the numbers of new Alts will emerge once and once again, creating tons of new accounts and old accounts will be deleted in order to free space for the next new alt. - Players community will definitively descend, as you are not gonna met old pales ever again, motivation to play with good ingame friends will be about 0, as you will find you entire friendlist get distracted if they persist in eve.
So this will mean for us, being a player with some years of experience and 4 folks who started right away, a point of no return / discussion. If Eve implements this Pay4Win feature, then we will move along and try some of the other new emerging MMOs
I know, than we are only 7 accounts, but considere than you will lose us (5 player / 7 Accounts) for 100% sure and dispite of what I readed on the first pages, there are many paople who think samehow!
If SP trading will get realeasd, well then we quit, and thats for now!
Hope you reconsidere the feedback of this 3xx pages and be aware of what you change in this game we all love so much!
Best regards
Trevier |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6937
|
Posted - 2016.02.01 20:18:50 -
[6501] - Quote
Trevier Bardou wrote:I know, than we are only 7 accounts, but considere than you will lose us (5 player / 7 Accounts) for 100% sure and dispite of what I readed on the first pages, there are many paople who think samehow!
If SP trading will get realeasd, well then we quit, and thats for now! Oh snap, I'll be checking to make sure you actually followed through, and thats for now!
it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that youGÇÖre also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players
http://eveboard.com/ranks
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Costanza
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.02.02 21:27:26 -
[6502] - Quote
Vanessa Mangeiri wrote:If you remove all the SP for a skill is the skill removed?
Or does it still remain injected?
Those of us with OCD would like to know.
I'm curious as well, but have a feeling it will remain injected.
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NUBIARN
Brutal Ballerinas
18
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Posted - 2016.02.02 22:05:31 -
[6503] - Quote
its a interesting paradox for me, nubiarn eveboard
I currently sit on 222mil sp and am ranked 115 on eveboard, so I`m pretty happy with that as I have been playing eve since jan 2004.
My first reactions to these changes was ###grrrrr ahhhahaaaaaaaa. but thinking about it for a while I now find myself torn on my thoughts towards these changes. on one hand as above I am really proud of this char I created back in 2004 and hold it dear, yes I probably should seek medical attention but that how I feel about nubs, this char has grown and been built over 12 years and done most activities eve has to offer, and yes I even enjoyed the game when it was grind in the early days, I still remember when a battleship was a corp ship that few pilots had and that was my ultimate goal to own a raven!! now these changes do take that away from new pilots, surely the enjoyment to me has been on the path to having the character I have now.
however on the flip side I can see that new pilots don`t seem to want to wait, and don't seem to appreciate the journey is as fun as the destination, and to be honest and this is the rub thinking about it I can understand their feelings, as everyone was on a level playing field in 2004 and the vets from then never had to compete with chars that are 12 years older than them, [interesting I got blown up by a noob in fw recently which made me laugh histerically at home the other week so sometime low sp pilots can hold their own with older chars]
now here comes the dilemma for me, do I hold onto wants dear to me in the above stats of my char or do I adapt to new mechanics and recycle my unused alts. as even with the sp loss I can still inject over 75mil into nubs from unused alts!! will this action detatch me from the specialness I feel for my character? interesting time ahead with many choices to make.
which means I also close the accounts that io don't use as those chars are just well training for the sake of training, so that's a loss to net income for ccp, I wonder if anyone else is thinking along those lines?
another thought I had is looking at my above post this is definetly different from the character bizzarr in just about every way possible!!
just me 2cents worth whilst sitting down thinking |
Mayaky
Peoples Liberation Army Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.02 22:40:45 -
[6504] - Quote
Why do people keep saying this will make Eve pay2win? This is just an alternate (and probably a better) way to the current Character Bazaar. If people had enough isks (or $$) to build up a char from scratch, they could probably have also just went to the character bazaar and bought another char. Except now I don't have to scroll through pages of bazaar forum to find a char that kind of fits my needs, and probably with a stupid name, and then still have to go through the bidding and all the shenanigans and the wait time.
Being able to buy stuff with isk does not make Eve pay2win, because, as it has always been, soft skills and knowledge of game mechanics are far more important than isks and SP. Sure people could spend $$ to buy plex for isk, but so what? Knowing how to use it is another story. |
TheDamned
Viziam Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2016.02.03 04:17:57 -
[6505] - Quote
NUBIARN wrote:
now here comes the dilemma for me, do I hold onto wants dear to me in the above stats of my char or do I adapt to new mechanics and recycle my unused alts. as even with the sp loss I can still inject over 75mil into nubs from unused alts!! will this action detatch me from the specialness I feel for my character? interesting time ahead with many choices to make.
which means I also close the accounts that io don't use as those chars are just well training for the sake of training, so that's a loss to net income for ccp, I wonder if anyone else is thinking along those lines?
another thought I had is looking at my above post this is definetly different from the character bizzarr in just about every way possible!! g
Or, you cash in on your alts, keep your main the way he is and use the funds from your alts to accomplish anything you may otherwise not have been able to?
With 6mil sp I cant imagine have 222million lol
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Tylus Lemmont
Disciples of Aphrodite The Glory Holers
2
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Posted - 2016.02.04 17:52:37 -
[6506] - Quote
I totally understand why a lot of people are enraged by this... But isn't anyone else seeing how this update is going to create more content? I can just about smell the ratting carriers exploding all through null sec and low class wspace... Have you all seen the number of carriers and dreads on SiSi since people cheat skilled into caps? I have two thoughts about this;
1. Yay! I'm going to tech into a large weapon system so I can finally fly a battleship. 2. Yay! Pay2Win players are still going to suck at Eve and I'm going to burn in their caps instead of their t1 cruisers! |
BearStrikesBack
Sequent Industry Out of Sight.
2
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Posted - 2016.02.05 06:39:24 -
[6507] - Quote
Any info about AUR price of extractors? |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
35
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Posted - 2016.02.05 17:53:46 -
[6508] - Quote
BearStrikesBack wrote:Any info about AUR price of extractors? The extractors and injectors should be free or something silly like 100 isk. How can CCP even consider charging real money for something that was introduced as a way of improving content? Also, it's just stupid to decrease the returns for SP's. Are you saying that a higher skilled player can't learn (through injection) as well as a newer player? Kind of insulting isn't it?
You stick with the, "Skills are based on 'real-time' training" but then you take away time? So the training was done in real-time, and a newer player gets 1 hour for 1 hour...but older players get a % of that "actual" time?
How does that even make sense? What if I wanted to extract my own skills from an area that I feel was wasted and inject them into my new priority? Why should I lose a percentage when "I" did the training on a 1:1 basis?
Come on CCP, think about it. If in the future this idea is deemed progressive you will make more money. Don't take a quick fix to the detriment of your loyal player base.
TBC
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Memphis Baas
1044
|
Posted - 2016.02.05 20:51:02 -
[6509] - Quote
They posted a twitter of the price. |
Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2016.02.06 01:37:11 -
[6510] - Quote
Was a huge supporter of these until the price came out. CCP lies again. Seriously F**k y'all for lying saying these were for newbros. They're not. You're just after money. |
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