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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2044
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:28:54 -
[691] - Quote
drunklies wrote:Not having done so does not entitle those mewling newbies to anything either. SP injectors aren't an entitlement. They're an option.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Eternal Bob
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:28:59 -
[692] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:I will try to stay away from replying to troll alts but just so other know skill queue was not there since start. For years you had to time skills and plan when you will change it, wake up to do it etc.
Also there was no attributes remap either so you had to plan well how to develop your char.
And even after getting those it still takes effort to do the best possible planning to utilize the most of your attributes in the long run.
And if nothing else I am sure plenty would stop playing and training if they knew this will happen. Why should i spend hundreds / thousands bucks on subscription while having to bother about training when I can just come and drop the money and get everything i want?
Nothing you just said alters the fact that amassing skill points has never required any effort.
As for your last point, why are you still subscribed? The character bazaar has been a thing for some time now. |
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
654
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:29:04 -
[693] - Quote
Before anything even like this is even thought about being anywhere near the table of discussion, people deserve a much better idea where attributes, remapping, and anything that has to do with new players and SP are headed in the near future.
I think most people are pretty open to ideas that get people into the game a little faster. This sort of seems like blackmailing people into spending more money just to play, and just opens a huge Pandora's box of bad things.
Really does chip into character uniqueness, and day old characters will be in ships they really shouldn't be. I don't get what this does to the whole levelling a raven syndrome either, as if they have their big mission boat on day 1, they are going to get bored on day 6.
People who committed to capitals were disenfranchised.
Sovereignty has become competitive PvE.
And now characters themselves are malleable, losing some of their associated uniqueness. Like the one thing EvE still does faithfully is characters and personalities actually having weight, meaning, and gravitas. A great deal of this would be lost if characters were made to factory specifications.
Veteran players make New Eden go around. They are the teachers, the instigators, the patrons, the leaders, the storytellers, and the FCs that make the game....a game. Veterans that feel what they have is being eroded are not the most likely candidates to get people hyped about playing.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
707
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:29:16 -
[694] - Quote
I am not completely against the idea on the personal level. It is essentially the same as buying a new character but 'cleaner' with my main issue being the ability to essentially up and 'retrain' your skills. Which makes the long term decision somewhat pointless. However, if you do decide to go forth with this system - vets and novices should be treated equally. I should not have to pay 10x more to improve my character as a nooby. There should never be a system that takes away from the 1:1 ratio of SP - People spent time and money subbing to gain those skill points, removing 70% of that because I'm a more skilled character does not seem ethical to me.
However, although I hold the middle ground with the above being a main issue. I do understand why people are 'outraged' - there is the fear that the game will become more focused on micro-transactions and cash cowing. Which in itself is a reasonable fear. For me personally this would open more options to improve my own personalized alts and main character. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2044
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:29:58 -
[695] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:
Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM.
That's my whole point: people don't do it because it isn't practical in most cases. But now - Farm some gno...Sanshas in the barrens..err high sec to get your SP to level up...errr get your skills to V and get that sweet new raid gea...errr FOTM ship. This is not appreciably different than the Character Bazaar.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Josef Djugashvilis
3005
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:30:44 -
[696] - Quote
It is clear that the majority pf posters are very much against this idea, which means that CCP rather than dropping the daft idea, will offer to tweak it.
After eight years in the game, I finally and with great sadness, get to say, "Eve is dying" and mean it if CCP persist with this hare-brained scheme.
Oh dear...
This is not a signature.
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2706
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:31:28 -
[697] - Quote
Querns wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:
Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM.
That's my whole point: people don't do it because it isn't practical in most cases. But now - Farm some gno...Sanshas in the barrens..err high sec to get your SP to level up...errr get your skills to V and get that sweet new raid gea...errr FOTM ship. This is not appreciably different than the Character Bazaar. Yes it is. The SP queue as opposed to grdinding gnolls in the barrens is one of the principal differences that separates eve from the lesser mmos. Removing that difference is a mistake and a loss. |
Sharps
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:31:51 -
[698] - Quote
I like this idea. I'm a new player and I'm willing to pay a little extra to be able to do the things I want to do.
You 10 year vets who have won Eve by PLEXing all your accounts and playing for free, why wouldn't you want me to give CCP my money? They have to get RL money from somewhere, and I sure as hell ain't buying SKINs. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3514
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:31:52 -
[699] - Quote
Stalking Mantis wrote:
EVE is in a downward spiral.....don't believe me? compare server numbers today with two years ago...I am talking more than a 300% drop. This is FORCING CCP to try to appeal to newer players, such changes might not appeal to us the people that have played EVE for years. But this tells me CCP is in alot of trouble due to years of mishandling the EVE community that they are now forced to think up things like this to appeal to new blood.
Heh...no not 300%.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Nogginz
BLACK SQUADRON. RAZOR Alliance
3
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:32:22 -
[700] - Quote
ive been following this post since when it first popped up, it is evident that the vast majority of people replying to this post are against this idea.
If CCP implements this then its obvious CCP does not listen to its players. |
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2044
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:32:22 -
[701] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote: And now characters themselves are malleable, losing some of their associated uniqueness. Like the one thing EvE still does faithfully is characters and personalities actually having weight, meaning, and gravitas. A great deal of this would be lost if characters were made to factory specifications.
Veteran players make New Eden go around. They are the teachers, the instigators, the patrons, the leaders, the storytellers, and the FCs that make the game....a game. Veterans that feel what they have is being eroded are not the most likely candidates to get people hyped about playing.
You live in a very strange world. The Eve I experience is rife with purchased characters and one's sense of identity is only tied to one's jabber account or forums account.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Draugo Rana
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
80
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:32:26 -
[702] - Quote
No no...NO. Please don't. Just don't.
Buying and selling skill points? Cheapen and reduce the entire skill training and character development process to nothing more than tradable tokens? Why not just abolish skills entirely and make every character fully trained and alike from creation?
Skill levels and their training is not only a measurement of character's abilities and power, it's also a means to give trainees something to look forward to, a sense of accomplishment when they reach it, require some planning and making some choices from day one. Making skills tradable throws most of that away. It makes skills seems much less valuable if you can just create a new character, throw some $$$ at it and you're done.
I was never super excited about the character bazaar but it was tolerable, slicing up characters and selling it as pieces is most definitely not. I can also live with the ability of trading characters using an in game interface while giving the buyer the ability to rename it, but that is as far as I think it should go.
And yes, older characters who gained their skills the old fashioned way by logging in every day and adjusting their queues should be rightfully pissed if this idiocy ever finds its way to the live servers.
Masuat'aa Matari is recruiting Minmatar freedom fighters
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Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
10
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:33:03 -
[703] - Quote
Querns wrote: Having to struggle with a nascent skill system and without the tools necessary to manage it does not somehow entitle those ancient souls to anything.
Consistency is what matters. Loyalty. You do not change fundamentals after 12 years. Because that way you trick player base, ie your customers. I am sure if they started like p2w game, EVE would be dead long ago, I doubt it would even make 5 years.
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2044
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:33:09 -
[704] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:It is clear that the majority pf posters are very much against this idea, which means that CCP rather than dropping the daft idea, will offer to tweak it.
After eight years in the game, I finally and with great sadness, get to say, "Eve is dying" and mean it if CCP persist with this hare-brained scheme.
Oh dear... Ah, yes, good ol' argumentum ad populum. An old friend, come to visit.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Davir Sometaww
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
59
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:33:26 -
[705] - Quote
Well it could be modified.
To where you can pay a certain fee in plex for a "name change" or "skill revamp".
Proposal: Skill Revamp;
-All your SP is allocated into unallocated skillpoints. -This will have a 1 year Cooldown. -Cost: 2-3 Plex or certain equivalent $$.
Why:
-Everybody makes mistakes. This lets a player start with a clean slate on what ships he/she wants to fly or do in his/her career in eve online. -One year cooldown - ensures that this doesn't get "abused".
Proposal: Name Change:
-Change your characters name -Note: will still say your old name on new tab of : Past History/Past Employment -Cost: 2 Plex? Can be adjusted as needed. -This will have a 6 month - 1 year cooldown?
Why:
-Everybody makes mistakes. This lets the player that named his character something stupid like: "Fat Kid Loves Cake" to something serious if he/she wanted too. -You are still able to see the past history of the name. -long cooldown - ensures that this doesn't get "abused". |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2044
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:33:58 -
[706] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:
Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM.
That's my whole point: people don't do it because it isn't practical in most cases. But now - Farm some gno...Sanshas in the barrens..err high sec to get your SP to level up...errr get your skills to V and get that sweet new raid gea...errr FOTM ship. This is not appreciably different than the Character Bazaar. Yes it is. The SP queue, as opposed to grdinding gnolls in the barrens, is one of the principal differences that separates eve from the lesser mmos. Removing that difference in the name of accessibility is a mistake and a loss. The SP queue can be bypassed by the Character Bazaar. You can even fund these purchases on your first day by converting purchased PLEX into ISK.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
338
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:34:54 -
[707] - Quote
S'Way wrote:So this is how it ends then ?
Would have hoped there was still someone left from the old days at CCP who could see why this is a terrible idea (for all the reasons already posted by many others).
Himlar is still CEO, get your facts strait. And most negative people did not really read the blog, or thought before penning stuff down.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Eternal Bob
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:35:08 -
[708] - Quote
Interesting how the most popular reactions to this on /r/eve have been the positive ones. Luckily this forum isn't the only place devs go for feedback. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2044
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:35:20 -
[709] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Querns wrote: Having to struggle with a nascent skill system and without the tools necessary to manage it does not somehow entitle those ancient souls to anything.
Consistency is what matters. Loyalty. You do not change fundamentals after 12 years. Because that way you trick player base, ie your customers. I am sure if they started like p2w game, EVE would be dead long ago, I doubt it would even make 5 years. Frankly, not really. An ancient player's subscription is not worth appreciably more than a new player's.
You could argue that older players have more accounts, but given that the account/player ratio is about 1.5, this falls flat on the grand scale.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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drunklies
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
13
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:35:31 -
[710] - Quote
Querns wrote:drunklies wrote:Not having done so does not entitle those mewling newbies to anything either. SP injectors aren't an entitlement. They're an option.
An option born of entitlement, of people wanting to bypass the hoops that everyone else jumped through.
And before someone jumps in saying something about wanting to make everyone suffer, you are missing the point. It's the experience that is valuable, not the 'suffering'. Removing the need for that experience means you are devaluing the quality of the players available, simply because they do not have the experience that other players do.
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Kon Kre8r
Konz Korp
2
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:35:39 -
[711] - Quote
sharpscg wrote:I don't like this.
The way buying characters works right now is completely fine.
The way it is now is NOT fine. This new option as suggested so far -- also NOT fine.
What we DO need -- Simple fixes CCP REFUSES to fix -- Black Ops for instance -- Still can NOT use covert ops cloak!
The GOOD IDEA --> New structures - YAY The Bad --> New Fozzie Sov -- Booo
U need us to spend more money? Regain our trust and faith so that we proudly buy things like Posters, shirts, etc. |
Guillame Herschel
Quantum Cats Syndicate Spaceship Bebop
71
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:35:55 -
[712] - Quote
Does this mean I can finally put the SP to use that I spent on Fast Talk way back in 2003?
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deathpain
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:36:01 -
[713] - Quote
QUESTION:
How did this go from an idea, through managment, then the CSM, all the way to being a devblog without even one person stopping and thinking, hmm I wonder what the player bass will think of this idiotic idea?
OPINION:
I for one hate this idea with a passion, it's worse then the system we already have. You could improve the character bazaar so much easier without all this...
SUGGESTION:
Create a in game area to buy characters, ok that's fine. Now create a system to rename characters at a additional plex cost. Done everything that you highlighted as problems in one go, and no one gets upset. This will require much less work to implement and also you get another income stream from charachter renaming.
MY EXPERIENCE:
I have bought a charachter in the past, however at no point did I feel I was being ripped off or being sold a shady charachter since I used this party tools like every sensible person who buys a toon does. I knew how much i was worth as I appraised the toon, so I knew I was getting a decent deal, and I checked the charachter history to see what it had got up to in the past.
So people buying toons who know the game are going to be safe, but those who don't know the game... Should they be buying a toon at all? In my opinion no. My main I love as I built him from scratch, there is pride in the skill points that I put effort into. Yes I did buy a alt, but I still had to work from the very beginning trying to make serious money selling shuttles all the way to ratting in wormholes with my pimped out proteus. So I think that an easy route to all that sp is a bad thing as all those mistakes you make on the way to getting that sp is invaluable and I wouldn't trade it for anything.
ADDITIONALLY:
Also nullified interceptors is dumb, yeah I know it has nothing to do with this devblog but I'm going to keep saying it till someone finally listens...
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Josef Djugashvilis
3005
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:36:28 -
[714] - Quote
Sharps wrote:I like this idea. I'm a new player and I'm willing to pay a little extra to be able to do the things I want to do.
You 10 year vets who have won Eve by PLEXing all your accounts and playing for free, why wouldn't you want me to give CCP my money? They have to get RL money from somewhere, and I sure as hell ain't buying SKINs.
I have never bought a PLEX nor used the character bazaar.
Annual sub all the way.
This is not a signature.
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2706
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:36:39 -
[715] - Quote
Querns wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:
Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM.
That's my whole point: people don't do it because it isn't practical in most cases. But now - Farm some gno...Sanshas in the barrens..err high sec to get your SP to level up...errr get your skills to V and get that sweet new raid gea...errr FOTM ship. This is not appreciably different than the Character Bazaar. Yes it is. The SP queue, as opposed to grdinding gnolls in the barrens, is one of the principal differences that separates eve from the lesser mmos. Removing that difference in the name of accessibility is a mistake and a loss. The SP queue can be bypassed by the Character Bazaar. You can even fund these purchases on your first day by converting purchased PLEX into ISK. No, it can't, not practically anyway- you yourself gave the perfect example showing why it's impractical in the above nested quote.
You're talking about buying a whole new character, I'm talking about improving an existing one. There's a difference, a big one. If I have 2 freighter alts, and want a jump freighter capable character, I'd rather improve one of the existing freighter alts then buy a brand new character. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2047
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:37:26 -
[716] - Quote
drunklies wrote:Querns wrote:drunklies wrote:Not having done so does not entitle those mewling newbies to anything either. SP injectors aren't an entitlement. They're an option. An option born of entitlement, of people wanting to bypass the hoops that everyone else jumped through. And before someone jumps in saying something about wanting to make everyone suffer, you are missing the point. It's the experience that is valuable, not the 'suffering'. Removing the need for that experience means you are devaluing the quality of the players available, simply because they do not have the experience that other players do. The fact that an older player had to jump through hoops does not somehow make it required that new players also have to jump through the same hoops. Your suffering is not sacrosanct or even meaningful at all.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Aren Dar
EVE University Ivy League
20
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:37:53 -
[717] - Quote
One of the things I've observed in dealing with newer players is the number of people who have dropped out over the years because they joined with the assumption that they could grind game time. Exacerbated when there were a lot of people in a single group who were of the same mentality - eventually lots of them burnt out.
Ironically higher plex prices has made this kind of behavior less common, as it has become less realistic.
I wonder if one of the unintended consequences of this change - if effected - would be that new players would end up constantly micro-grinding for more SP. |
oohthey ioh
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:38:05 -
[718] - Quote
You could do it so people have to split trained skills in half, and can only use them to on the skill they was split form. The value will be based per skill not per so many SP. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2047
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:38:50 -
[719] - Quote
deathpain wrote:QUESTION:
How did this go from an idea, through managment, then the CSM, all the way to being a devblog without even one person stopping and thinking, hmm I wonder what the player bass will think of this idiotic idea?
Community feedback has sharply limited value, especially in the case where an entitlement is being threatened.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
825
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Posted - 2015.10.15 19:39:11 -
[720] - Quote
Alladir wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:So, if CCP instigates this, will Character Trading be removed? This is supposed to be the replacement for the Character Bazaar right? So why would we need Character Trading anymore? Otherwise, this will lead to a great new form of Character trading where we can easily build specced toons for a specific function, and then sell them. Depending on the final costs, which will probably be rather high, I think we can look at toons selling for a bit more. Someone on reddit ran approx math that buying char is twice as cheap when it comes to isk/sp cost compared to new system so no, they will not replace market.
But you miss the fact that people will change the cost based on market. |
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