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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Hashtag Rare Pepe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:45:23 -
[991] - Quote
2 types of people in this thread:
1/"Boohoo Boohoo! I won't be special anymurr even if I packed millions of sp while doing L4 in high sec." 2/"Nice I will be able to do pvp and be useful without having to wait more than 1 year before hopping into a Tengu."
Choose your side. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1642
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:45:56 -
[992] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Buy extractors for Aurum (Which is real money) Buy 10 new Accounts for PLEX (which is real money) Start training those and have your very own Super in a month.
The only place where the market comes into play is when you buy the skillbooks, and they are NPC seeded.
Yes, it will probably be more expensive than buying a character from the CB, but that doesn't help. Or would you say, that P2W is less terrible if it's just expensive enough? is a 20mill SP super character actually worthwhile(before accounting for loss due to the consuming character having diminishing returns)? |
Elfaen Ethenwe
The Executives Executive Outcomes
42
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:46:09 -
[993] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Nuke Chicken wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Reiisha wrote:Stupidly bad idea. This is going to get abused like no tomorrow.
Expect maxed 600m sp characters within days of the release of this feature. No. First you'd need to get hundreds of millions of SP from other players. Those characters would have to buy thousands of the extractors and packets. I'm gonna guess at say 8500...and if they cost 100 Aurum (a low price, IMO) we are talking well over 900 billion ISK. Maybe some body could do this...but it would likely take some time. Certainly not days. You wouldnt need this to kill the game but oh wait, we can all dock supers soon so theres 2 accounts per top sp players they no longer need. 'Scuse me whilst i absorb the sp from my titan and super toons I no longer need into each other, now i have 2x 200mil sp toons. Also CCP now has 2 LESS subscriptions. No. You forgot to factor in the decreasing returns. Or you are bad at math.
I can make it work dude, thats my alt and i have both the isk and the accounts. This patch would boost me for a very long time and i still think its a terrible idea. |
BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:46:51 -
[994] - Quote
Next they'll decide it wasn't working as intended so they'll work 'just like plex'. 16.99 for a month of SP...
And then they'll decide supercaps and titans are a bit like the character bazaar, all this messing about with third parties and auctions on obscure parts of the forum johnnywarcraft never visits. And that's a problem because now he's used this new system and specced up his nyx/erebus pilot he doesn't know where to buy them from, and well, saving the bother of buying 80 plex and selling them you'll be abe to get one direct from aurum store. Nice and convenient, insured of course. We can't have johnnys mommy ringing up mastercard and requesting a chargeback because pandemic legion wtfbbq'd his 1000 usd christmas present and he didn't know titans could die amd he only wanted to go mining in it and hes being bullied by masty men and wants his titan back...he dudn't even get to shoot them because nobody told him that his 100 usd thons modified mining kaser couldn't do that.
And well, we can't have bad pr, so lets rent johnny a nice sov system for 100 usd a month complete with moon poo and asteroids where he can be left to mine in his titan, guarded of course by the 29.99 a month concorde upgrade that can wtfbbq the entire of goonfleet should they decide to stop by,
Tinfoil hat maybe, but look what a certain company did to battlefield and tell me we aren't on the road to farmeville 4.99 chicken packs.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
373
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:47:03 -
[995] - Quote
Querns wrote: You have to bootstrap the bastards with 5m SP in order to start harvesting them. You've grossly underestimated the startup cost.
So, pay to win is okay if it's *grossly* expensive then?
The new accounts will come with a month of trial time and a plex through the Power of Two system. That's 2 Months for free, which is about 4M SP per character. So - no, I don't think I have grossly overestimated the startup cost not that it matters anyway. |
Cancel Align NOW
Maas Industries
617
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:47:41 -
[996] - Quote
Edwin Wyatt wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:The main reason I think this is a bad idea is perception.
1. It seems to be one step closer to direct pay2win.
How is this not in the game already? I can buy plexes with cash, purchase a maxed out character from a burnt out bitter vet and buy expensive ships with plexes. Sounds like p2w to me!
Please don't misread and then quote me out of context.
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darkchild's corpse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:47:41 -
[997] - Quote
after reading the devblog... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRKz82v5JQY
just kidding... but to be honest: i really dislike the idea. please do not implement that ccp. yes, the character bazaar is already some kind of a pay to win thing (wich is the reason why i don't like it). but this stuff makes it even worse. neuntausend explained it clear enough to understand: the fact that you can use several characters to skill for one specific character makes it not really comparable to the character bazaar as we have it now. you can skill the skills YOU want and don't have to wait for a good offer. and in some cases this would also be probably even quicker than using the character bazaar.
and btw: "the character bazaar is p2w anyways, i like this new idea" is something only someone who is actually paying to win would say. but p2w concepts are not healthy for a game in general.
as some people already said: it would be ok if there would be character services like renaming / changing appearance that also cost plex. it would fix the "problems" of the character bazaar and there would probably be more money for ccp.
as an animal rights activist, i have to say: ccp, please don't force your cow into giving more milk like this. it doesn't like it and will die sooner or later. instead, listen to your cow. it's telling stories. |
Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen
3
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:48:01 -
[998] - Quote
Ahahahahahahahahaahahaaaa
Ha...
Ha...
Ha...
No.
This will lead to:
a) Pay to win. Period.
b) Old and rich characters building farm chars (full neural remap to one attribute, optimized implants and skilling just the skills that need them to a) push their chars and b) sell skillpoints
c) new players can't afford the skill packets until they buy plex, because skill packets will be expensive (1 month of skilltime = 1 plex + the aurum for creating the package)
d) big coalitions can push their members, so they not only have a advantage in numbers, but also in skillpoints (join goon and become a carrier pilot in one day ) |
Striker IV
He say you Brade Runner
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:48:33 -
[999] - Quote
ugh, we know from experience, that if something can be twisted into an exploit, or playerbase finds it and does it. Im all for creative uses, but this sounds like a bad idea all around. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3515
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:48:59 -
[1000] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:
The new system is only different in its granularity.
Wrong. I can't buy instant bulk sp for this or any arbitrary character in the old system. I can in the new system. World of difference. Cash to ccp. Bulk, instant, and arbitrarily large SP for any character of my choice. If you claim this is the same as the character bazaar, you're lying through your teeth.
No, I'm guessing that the limit will be around 50 million SP maybe 60 or 70, but that is about it. Because it will get quite expensive once you go over 80 million SP.
Further, it also depends on how much SP are on the market. Will everyone one with cap alts who can fly more than one racial cap ship suddenly drain all those SP and toss them on the market for ISK? What if that drops the price really low? People are going to sell at a loss? Really?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2072
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:49:02 -
[1001] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:
The new system is only different in its granularity.
Wrong. I can't buy instant bulk sp for this or any arbitrary character in the old system. I can in the new system. World of difference. Cash to ccp. Bulk, instant, and arbitrarily large SP for any character of my choice. If you claim this is the same as the character bazaar, you're lying through your teeth. No, I'm just able to see things without a blood haze over my vision. It's the same thing. Characters in eve are not special. They are commodities to be bought and sold. If you wanted 500 commandship pilots for a fleet, you were out of luck. Market never has that many in stock. But now? Buy all the sp you want and distribute it however you see fit, to whomever you see fit, instantly. It saddens me that some people can't see this system for what it is, or are too blinded by their own ambitions to care. Considering that the market also does not have an infinite supply of skill boosters, I fail to see the concern.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2072
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:49:50 -
[1002] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Querns wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:
The new system is only different in its granularity.
Wrong. I can't buy instant bulk sp for this or any arbitrary character in the old system. I can in the new system. World of difference. Cash to ccp. Bulk, instant, and arbitrarily large SP for any character of my choice. If you claim this is the same as the character bazaar, you're lying through your teeth. No, I'm just able to see things without a blood haze over my vision. It's the same thing. Characters in eve are not special. They are commodities to be bought and sold. Mine isn't. It's your choice to live in deliberate ignorance of reality. I fail to see how the reality shifting a bit affects this.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Draugo Rana
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
81
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:50:04 -
[1003] - Quote
Hashtag Rare Pepe wrote:2 types of people in this thread:
1/"Boohoo Boohoo! I won't be special anymurr even if I packed millions of sp while doing L4 in high sec." 2/"Nice I will be able to do pvp and be useful without having to wait more than 1 year before hopping into a Tengu."
Choose your side.
3. People who write knee jerk mocking 2 liner comments without actually reading, let alone trying to understand the presented and often well written arguments...
Masuat'aa Matari is recruiting Minmatar freedom fighters
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3515
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:50:09 -
[1004] - Quote
Shalmon Aliatus wrote:Ahahahahahahahahaahahaaaa Ha... Ha... Ha... No. This will lead to: a) Pay to win. Period. b) Old and rich characters building farm chars (full neural remap to one attribute, optimized implants and skilling just the skills that need them to a) push their chars and b) sell skillpoints c) new players can't afford the skill packets until they buy plex, because skill packets will be expensive (1 month of skilltime = 1 plex + the aurum for creating the package) d) big coalitions can push their members, so they not only have a advantage in numbers, but also in skillpoints (join goon and become a carrier pilot in one day )
Right like buying and selling PLEX for ISK was not pay to win.
Like buying a character with said is is not pay to win.
You are a bit late to the game on the pay to win thing.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Portmanteau
oooh ponies
78
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:50:13 -
[1005] - Quote
Winter of waaaaaaaaaaaggggggeeeeeew incoming ! |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2072
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:50:41 -
[1006] - Quote
BirdStrike wrote:Next they'll decide it wasn't working as intended so they'll work 'just like plex'. 16.99 for a month of SP...
And then they'll decide supercaps and titans are a bit like the character bazaar, all this messing about with third parties and auctions on obscure parts of the forum johnnywarcraft never visits. And that's a problem because now he's used this new system and specced up his nyx/erebus pilot he doesn't know where to buy them from, and well, saving the bother of buying 80 plex and selling them you'll be abe to get one direct from aurum store. Nice and convenient, insured of course. We can't have johnnys mommy ringing up mastercard and requesting a chargeback because pandemic legion wtfbbq'd his 1000 usd christmas present and he didn't know titans could die amd he only wanted to go mining in it and hes being bullied by masty men and wants his titan back...he dudn't even get to shoot them because nobody told him that his 100 usd thons modified mining kaser couldn't do that.
And well, we can't have bad pr, so lets rent johnny a nice sov system for 100 usd a month complete with moon poo and asteroids where he can be left to mine in his titan, guarded of course by the 29.99 a month concorde upgrade that can wtfbbq the entire of goonfleet should they decide to stop by,
Tinfoil hat maybe, but look what a certain company did to battlefield and tell me we aren't on the road to farmeville 4.99 chicken packs.
Gosh, this slope sure looks slippery.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Anise Tig'res
Duchy Ministry of Slave Affairs
37
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:51:26 -
[1007] - Quote
darkchild's corpse wrote:after reading the devblog... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRKz82v5JQY just kidding... but to be honest: i really dislike the idea. please do not implement that ccp. yes, the character bazaar is already some kind of a pay to win thing (wich is the reason why i don't like it). but this stuff makes it even worse. neuntausend explained it clear enough to understand: the fact that you can use several characters to skill for one specific character makes it not really comparable to the character bazaar as we have it now. you can skill the skills YOU want and don't have to wait for a good offer. and in some cases this would also be probably even quicker than using the character bazaar. and btw: "the character bazaar is p2w anyways, i like this new idea" is something only someone who is actually paying to win would say. but p2w concepts are not healthy for a game in general. as some people already said: it would be ok if there would be character services like renaming / changing appearance that also cost plex. it would fix the "problems" of the character bazaar and there would probably be more money for ccp. as an animal rights activist, i have to say: ccp, please don't force your cow into giving more milk like this. it doesn't like it and will die sooner or later. instead, listen to your cow. it's telling stories.
Your solution is literally exactly the same but with 'IT'S JUST LIKE BEFORE BUT A TINY BIT DIFFERENT! :D' plastered over the front of it.
Get over your emotional reaction to this. Just because it wasn't around when you started doesn't make it P2W. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:51:38 -
[1008] - Quote
I'm not convinced it will actually do anything as there is that fundamental requirement of spare SP to start the process.
I get the feeling this is going to find a blocker in that the main source of spare SP (veteran players) are either: A) Going to be very e-peen about their SP totals, and unwilling to give it up. B) Continually training alts for tasks instead of just junk training on their main, so they're not going to actually be able to skim off unused SP.
That being said, my only real complaint about the system itself is that it's founded on the assumption that SP is a necessary evil for the game. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2072
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:51:39 -
[1009] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Querns wrote: You have to bootstrap the bastards with 5m SP in order to start harvesting them. You've grossly underestimated the startup cost.
So, pay to win is okay if it's *grossly* expensive then? The new accounts will come with a month of trial time and a plex through the Power of Two system. That's 2 Months for free, which is about 4M SP per character. So - no, I don't think I have grossly overestimated the startup cost not that it matters anyway. You know what else was expensive? Buying characters on the Character Bazaar. Mostly rich folks did it.
Strange, then, that no one complains about this.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3215
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:52:04 -
[1010] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Querns wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Querns wrote:
The new system is only different in its granularity.
Wrong. I can't buy instant bulk sp for this or any arbitrary character in the old system. I can in the new system. World of difference. Cash to ccp. Bulk, instant, and arbitrarily large SP for any character of my choice. If you claim this is the same as the character bazaar, you're lying through your teeth. No, I'm just able to see things without a blood haze over my vision. It's the same thing. Characters in eve are not special. They are commodities to be bought and sold. Mine isn't. Nor is mine, I started in summer of 2011 I, just like many others, trained into mining and industry. They are part of what defines my character as do the skill road maps of all characters.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Scott Dracov
Isogen 5
9
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:52:15 -
[1011] - Quote
Nuke Chicken wrote:Has anyone stopped to calculate how much Plex will skyrocket in price to accommodate this? and how many accounts will go offline because of this direct change?
I believe SKINS and multi character training were meant to do this but failed and the price of plex only doubled but still made free to play possible for most vets.
This is the next logical step in making free to play access via plex with in game isk more difficult.
The result is a smaller player base but more paying customers in theory but heard mentality dictates that smaller numbers means more cancelled subscriptions that were actually paying customers in addition to those plexing with isk.
But if you remove the last quantity not for sale on a single character (training time)...
Then you have lost any anchor and are adrift in the world of micro transactions and pay 2 win schemes which new players like myself have no interest in when we signed up for a subscription to a game on a monthly+ basis. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1642
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:52:28 -
[1012] - Quote
Elfaen Ethenwe wrote:I can make it work dude, thats my alt and i have both the isk and the accounts. This patch would boost me for a very long time and i still think its a terrible idea. Consuming an entire 200mill toon and funneling it into another 200mill toon results in a 219.5mill toon and a 5m toon. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1592
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:53:49 -
[1013] - Quote
So which DEV is going to leak the new "No fear" internal memo this time? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1642
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:54:48 -
[1014] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:I'm not convinced it will actually do anything as there is that fundamental requirement of spare SP to start the process.
I get the feeling this is going to find a blocker in that the main source of spare SP (veteran players) are either: A) Going to be very e-peen about their SP totals, and unwilling to give it up. B) Continually training alts for tasks instead of just junk training on their main, so they're not going to actually be able to skim off unused SP.
That being said, my only real complaint about the system itself is that it's founded on the assumption that SP is a necessary evil for the game. The character training currently intentionally fueling the character bazaar will likely end up being in part transitioned to this mechanic. I won't speculate on how well used it will be, but I don't see it going unused.
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Adaris
63
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:54:48 -
[1015] - Quote
CCP I wholeheartedly disagree with this proposed feature. It actually concerns me greatly as a paying customer.
I'd rather see you monetise some of the services people have actually asked for as an aid to character trading:
- Name change (keeping originals in an alias tab)
- Convert a fixed number of skillpoints into unallocated skillpoints per fixed period. A few million sp per year etc.
Both for plex/aurum.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
373
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:55:29 -
[1016] - Quote
Querns wrote:So, pay to win is okay if it's *grossly* expensive then?
The new accounts will come with a month of trial time and a plex through the Power of Two system. That's 2 Months for free, which is about 4M SP per character. So - no, I don't think I have grossly overestimated the startup cost not that it matters anyway. You know what else was expensive? Buying characters on the Character Bazaar. Mostly rich folks did it.
Strange, then, that no one complains about this.[/quote]
Oh, As I said earlier, I don't like the CB either. But the CB being bad, doesn't mean they should make it even worse.
"Oh, caught a cold? Then you surely don't mind a bit of cancer either"
Yes, I do mind. |
Si Karde
Arcane Odyssey Omnibus Mori
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 22:57:53 -
[1017] - Quote
Well my 1st thought was is it April already? Since i see I'm not alone in my reaction I'll just say stupid idea....absolutely stupid idea... |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3515
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:58:47 -
[1018] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Elfaen Ethenwe wrote:I can make it work dude, thats my alt and i have both the isk and the accounts. This patch would boost me for a very long time and i still think its a terrible idea. Consuming an entire 200mill toon and funneling it into another 200mill toon results in a 219.5mill toon and a 5m toon.
This just wont work. At all. Once you cross that 80 million threshold you'd only get 50,000 SP from a 500,000 SP packet.
Seriously, there is an increase costs.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2072
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:59:07 -
[1019] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Querns wrote: You know what else was expensive? Buying characters on the Character Bazaar. Mostly rich folks did it.
Strange, then, that no one complains about this.
Oh, As I said earlier, I don't like the CB either. But the CB being bad, doesn't mean they should make it even worse. "Oh, caught a cold? Then you surely don't mind a bit of cancer either" Yes, I do mind. The character bazaar is fine, and provides basically the only opportunity for new players to catch up to old players.
It was critical for my gameplay.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3515
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 23:00:28 -
[1020] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Querns wrote: You know what else was expensive? Buying characters on the Character Bazaar. Mostly rich folks did it.
Strange, then, that no one complains about this.
Oh, As I said earlier, I don't like the CB either. But the CB being bad, doesn't mean they should make it even worse. "Oh, caught a cold? Then you surely don't mind a bit of cancer either" Yes, I do mind.
Prohibition leads to black markets. Like people selling characters on e-bay. The character bazaar undermines that market considerably.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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