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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2075
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:39:27 -
[1171] - Quote
Emileon wrote:Querns wrote: What's horrible about being able to sell some of your SP or buy some of someone else's?
I also have sp that I really don't use or need anymore but it was paid for and trained by either plex or cash and took years to accumulate. This is nothing more than a basic pay to play with cash going to CCP for the privilege. This will fundamentally change the game to the point where its a point and shoot game with no background or history. If it was going to do that, it would have happened a long time ago care of the Character Bazaar.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
130
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:39:58 -
[1172] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:After that turbo start he realizes the game is quite slow unless he wants to keep spending more and more money to speed it until he gets comfortable with sp. Pity that in the most cases he will not have any idea what he needs/wants. Because that is what you learn while your skills are training.
...
There is definitely need to find a way to attract and keep new players, but this is not the proper one. Maybe they could start with doing something about the fact it apparently takes several months to even figure out what you want to put your skills into?
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Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
21
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:39:59 -
[1173] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:I have 123 million SP currently. That means if I buy a 500,000 SP packet I get just 50,000 SP to allocate. It is generally a horrible deal unless I become grotesquely rich in game. It is not the high SP characters that anyone with sense is really worried about. It is the day old newbies and alts that can effectively level up instantly to 50mil SP+. Blizzard allowed characters to instantly level in WOW and we can all see how that turned out. Yea but that game inherently sucks. EvE is a great game not because of the way you acquire skill points, but because of the cut-throat nature of the game and the really intricate interactions you can have with others playing the game. My being able to buy skill points to now fly a caldari battleship appropriately isn't going to detract from the nature of the game. If anything, it reinforces it by allowing me to fly a more expensive ship instead of having to wait 4 more months for all those skills to finally level where I can feel confident enough in my fitting ability to actually fly it, getting that ship into existence and available for you and your friends to try to blow up.
Cut throat nature of the game but lets make it easy? Isn`t that a bit of a contradiction?
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
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Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
439
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:40:51 -
[1174] - Quote
You know, the more I think about this, the less I dislike it. I still hope that there are faster decays in return, and I want to see a hard cap, but I'm actually warming up to the idea. The biggest concern in my mind right now is how much it'll cost. Too low, and it'll be abused to Hell and back. Too high and it'll be useless.
Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections.
Once you've made your choice, join the EvE-Scout channel and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2075
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:40:54 -
[1175] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Querns wrote: The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold.
I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good.
Of course they would, but they are not selling them anyway. Because they are not commodities to the most of the people. Except it does not benefit new players, which is original idea? Awesome idea then. The fact that it didn't happen with such a small sample set is telling of absolutely nothing.
The diminishing returns mechanic supports low-SP players more than it does high-SP players.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Jitarunner Transport
Jitarunner Transport Corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:41:07 -
[1176] - Quote
pay MONEY for get stronger fast! no MONEY? go **** yourself!
what a brilliant idea to make users open their wallet |
Vlade Randal
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
10
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:41:20 -
[1177] - Quote
-10
This is a terrible idea |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2075
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:42:02 -
[1178] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:You know, the more I think about this, the less I dislike it. I still hope that there are faster decays in return, and I want to see a hard cap, but I'm actually warming up to the idea. The biggest concern in my mind right now is how much it'll cost. Too low, and it'll be abused to Hell and back. Too high and it'll be useless. What I don't get is the "abuse" angle. What's the abuse? Goosing your SP to maximum doesn't somehow also afford you the ships or the real-life skill to use them well.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3520
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:44:17 -
[1179] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:I have 123 million SP currently. That means if I buy a 500,000 SP packet I get just 50,000 SP to allocate. It is generally a horrible deal unless I become grotesquely rich in game. It is not the high SP characters that anyone with sense is really worried about. It is the day old newbies and alts that can effectively level up instantly to 50mil SP+. Blizzard allowed characters to instantly level in WOW and we can all see how that turned out.
You should go back and re-read the post I was responding too, it mentioned older players.
And getting a 50 million SP character will cost ALOT using this method. You'd need 14 PLEX (at the current price). You'd probably get a much better deal at the character bazaar--i.e. a 54 million SP character which has been with use for years.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
21
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:45:04 -
[1180] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:After that turbo start he realizes the game is quite slow unless he wants to keep spending more and more money to speed it until he gets comfortable with sp. Pity that in the most cases he will not have any idea what he needs/wants. Because that is what you learn while your skills are training.
...
There is definitely need to find a way to attract and keep new players, but this is not the proper one. Maybe they could start with doing something about the fact it apparently takes several months to even figure out what you want to put your skills into?
Then it would not be EVE, so there are plenty others game to try out for that.
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
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Stragak
21
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:46:08 -
[1181] - Quote
At this point WTF is the point of even going to EVE Vegas? Really?
It is really just a meeting about how you guys 'were' going to un- **** eve.
Then you deliver this bomb shell.
For constructive feedback see first post 1127ish range... that number being said piece.
"Oh look, the cat is sitting in the litter box and pooping over the side again" every time we go through these "rough patches".
In good humor, and slight annoyance,
Boiglio -á-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238130&p=82
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Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
21
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:46:55 -
[1182] - Quote
Querns wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Querns wrote: The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold.
I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good.
Of course they would, but they are not selling them anyway. Because they are not commodities to the most of the people. Except it does not benefit new players, which is original idea? Awesome idea then. The fact that it didn't happen with such a small sample set is telling of absolutely nothing. The diminishing returns mechanic supports low-SP players more than it does high-SP players.
Please read the post where i summed it up. Diminishing return mechanic does support low sp players more than high sp. But low sp players cannot afford it without spending a lot of rl cash. So it is fail.
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
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Sella Lesbon
Three-legged Dogs Indomitable Intentions
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:47:24 -
[1183] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:Sella Lesbon wrote:Good. I like it. Don't listen to these oldies that keep blocking this game from evolving. Oi! Try to remember these "oldies" are the ones who kept EVE going from it's release to now. Don't be disrespectful of them or that fact.
didn't mean to be disrespectful. I think its a good idea as it doesn't create something out of thin air
> Never do something to someone that you wouldn't like to be done to yourself.
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Fox Spooky Mulder
0
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:48:34 -
[1184] - Quote
There are two ways something like this can/would work.
1) Make it so that skill point reallocation can only be done to a character and NOT sold/traded.
2) Put a hard limit on the number of GÇÿTransneural Skill PacketsGÇÖ that can be made and/or used in a month/year per ACCOUNT.
3) Somewhat unrelated notes: A) Give us the ability to change the Gender of a character during a resculpt.
B) Give us the ability to change the name of a character [possibly keeping some record of past name available in game] and again limiting it to a certain number of times it can be done per account say per year. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3521
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:49:08 -
[1185] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Querns wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Querns wrote: The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold.
I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good.
Of course they would, but they are not selling them anyway. Because they are not commodities to the most of the people. Except it does not benefit new players, which is original idea? Awesome idea then. The fact that it didn't happen with such a small sample set is telling of absolutely nothing. The diminishing returns mechanic supports low-SP players more than it does high-SP players. Please read the post where i summed it up. Diminishing return mechanic does support low sp players more than high sp. But low sp players cannot afford it without spending a lot of rl cash. So it is fail.
I don't think you understand diminishing returns then.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
1317
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:49:41 -
[1186] - Quote
Sella Lesbon wrote:Maximus Aerelius wrote:Sella Lesbon wrote:Good. I like it. Don't listen to these oldies that keep blocking this game from evolving. Oi! Try to remember these "oldies" are the ones who kept EVE going from it's release to now. Don't be disrespectful of them or that fact. didn't mean to be disrespectful. I think its a good idea as it doesn't create something out of thin air
Appreciate the above. "Oldies\Bittervets" get grief all over and to be honest it makes us bitter lol.
Yeah, at least they got that bit right on the thin air part. That's about it really.
[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b]
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
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Indy Rider
Sudden Buggery
24
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:50:52 -
[1187] - Quote
I like the idea, logical extension to the character bazaar - you can already change isk for SP.
WTS Mining Skills. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
795
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:53:21 -
[1188] - Quote
Querns wrote:What I don't get is the "abuse" angle. What's the abuse? Goosing your SP to maximum doesn't somehow also afford you the ships or the real-life skill to use them well.
Malcanis' law....
Vets can speed up alt creations. they'd have the real playing skills in place to make this worthwhile right away.
Richer vets already have isk/plex means to write off paying for game. Not paying their sub fees for a while...well they could say hell I haven't paid for the game in a few months to years...screw it, if aurum based give ccp some money again for a switch.
Even I for truly free tools I use for personal computer interests have if truly amazing have clicked on their donate link since some payment should be given for job well done. Take away is not all eve players are cheap asses who won't cough up some cash. For this especially I would wager. |
E1ev1n
Unknown Crusade
5
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:53:42 -
[1189] - Quote
This devalues character trading. NO. Just NO.
SP trading would be fine but not the reduction of sp because you trade a toon.
Even trading SP sounds bad, how about CCP just seeds up some PLEX and makes it cheaper to train multiple toons by devaluing the PLEX market. |
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
21
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:55:24 -
[1190] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Querns wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Querns wrote: The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold.
I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good.
Of course they would, but they are not selling them anyway. Because they are not commodities to the most of the people. Except it does not benefit new players, which is original idea? Awesome idea then. The fact that it didn't happen with such a small sample set is telling of absolutely nothing. The diminishing returns mechanic supports low-SP players more than it does high-SP players. Please read the post where i summed it up. Diminishing return mechanic does support low sp players more than high sp. But low sp players cannot afford it without spending a lot of rl cash. So it is fail. I don't think you understand diminishing returns then.
So you are saying that new players do not need to spend isk (cash to get isk/aur) in order to use it?
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
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Camios
Dutch East Querious Company Phoebe Freeport Republic
165
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:57:43 -
[1191] - Quote
It's so cool to be against CCP nowadays.
People have always been able to buy skillpoints by buying a character, with very few limitations. I also think that having to buy someone's else character just looks bad. It's not your character, it will never be (if you look at it from an emotional point of view). Buying a character of course gives you a lot of power, though... which is the same as buying skillpoints FROM ANOTHER PLAYER.
I really don't get thist resistance...
- You already can buy skillpoints from other players (characters, but it is frankly the same)
- You already can buy ISK from other players
- Why the hell you should not be able to buy skillpoints from another player? You already can!!
- I get that it's cool to hate CCP nowadays but I don't quite like it, go and vomit your hate somewhere else
Fly safe, you all. _C |
Estevan Andrard
World Traders Guild Channel
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:57:56 -
[1192] - Quote
There is an unwritten book players transmit through forum tradition from generations to generations of griefplayers that might have been titled "The way I play is the right way to play", and that is from where they take statements like "Mining is boring", "The pleasure of EVE is solo PvP", and "My ship should balance to another entire different class of ship so I can take down a capital with two frigates and a shuttle" kind of stuff.
However, there is another book, some devs may have a glimpse when brainstorming, that could be titled "People in EVE are essentally good and will use the powers we give only for good".
Sometimes devs talk about something, even the most pessimist start to rethink that maybe it wont be exploited dry. Then you login in EVE, take out your ship for a spin, and the first phrase on local chat just kill the magic of dev blogs.
Devs and players alike, in their majority forget the rule of shame for any game:
- Any measure for helping new players will help more veterans. The new players usually have no skill or experience to fully appreciate what is done for them, but the veteran has. There is virtually nothing short of tutorials that was made to new players that didnt turned into veteran profiting of advantage.
- Any measure of providing solo play viability becomes a group/alt play enhancement by the potency of alts by the potency of people. The power you give to one character is the power of every alt, and every alt holder. There is no escape from it.
- Any measure of providing ease of changing sov just add the power of bigger groups to take more sov from smaller groups, generating an even bigger area of influence in the hands fo the already benefited veterans holders of dozens of accounts that amassed a fortune and influence through out eve history.
It is the EVE equivalent of civil disarmament to reduce crime. You not taking the guns away from possible criminals, you giving the criminals reason to believe citizens will not fight back.
If con is the opposite of pro, then is Congress the opposite of progress?
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Ahekao Yamete
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:58:28 -
[1193] - Quote
i love this idea! now i can **** the users older than me! by my MONEY POWER |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3521
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Posted - 2015.10.16 00:59:20 -
[1194] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Querns wrote:Winter Archipelago wrote:You know, the more I think about this, the less I dislike it. I still hope that there are faster decays in return, and I want to see a hard cap, but I'm actually warming up to the idea. The biggest concern in my mind right now is how much it'll cost. Too low, and it'll be abused to Hell and back. Too high and it'll be useless. What I don't get is the "abuse" angle. What's the abuse? Goosing your SP to maximum doesn't somehow also afford you the ships or the real-life skill to use them well. Malcanis' law.... Vets can speed up alt creations. they'd have the real playing skills in place to make this worthwhile right away. Richer vets already have isk/plex means to write off paying for game. Not paying their sub fees for a while...well they could say hell I haven't paid for the game in a few months to years...screw it, if aurum based give ccp some money again for a switch. Even I for truly free tools I use for personal computer interests have if truly amazing have clicked on their donate link since some payment should be given for job well done. Take away is not all eve players are cheap asses who won't cough up some cash. For this especially I would wager.
Okay, there is this...but where will the SP come from? Suppose you want to make a small army of pilots with say, 15 million SP for who knows what....say carrier alts, say 100 of them. This way you could get 20 players across the map (or 5 midpoints) quickly. You'd need to purchase 1.65 billion SP work of SP packets. Or about 3,300 of them.
Yeah, it is easy to abuse things if you assume the supply is perfectly eleastic--i.e. there is an infinite amount of SP packets out there on the market.
Oh and you'd need 34 accounts too with all 3 character slots free. Yes, many players have multiple accounts, but the point is it might necessitate subbing even more accounts to accomplish this.
Contrary to claims this does not scale well.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Rythen Risalo
Immortals of New Eden DARKNESS.
0
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Posted - 2015.10.16 01:01:51 -
[1195] - Quote
I think this is a really good idea. As someone who's played the game since 2007 but for one reason or another didn't stay subscribed that whole period I have always felt that I had a lot less options than the people I play with daily. In the past I have bought a higher SP character to compensate for this and this certainly helped but I feel like I gave up my identity to have that.
Having the ability to make the exact same transaction with isk but have those skillpoints go onto ME rather than get a new SOMEONE. Is really apealling for me.
To the people who are complaining that it's buying SP with $$$. Go take a look at the character bazaar. It happens daily but in a shittier, less convenient way. |
Sella Lesbon
Three-legged Dogs Indomitable Intentions
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 01:02:08 -
[1196] - Quote
E1ev1n wrote:This devalues character trading. NO. Just NO.
SP trading would be fine but not the reduction of sp because you trade a toon.
Even trading SP sounds bad, how about CCP just seeds up some PLEX and makes it cheaper to train multiple toons by devaluing the PLEX market.
Plexing toons have gone out of hand already
> Never do something to someone that you wouldn't like to be done to yourself.
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Zerinia
Alliance of Free Stars
12
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Posted - 2015.10.16 01:02:12 -
[1197] - Quote
CCP has stated they want to remove attributes..... maybe they're gonna turn implants into skill packets. I just bought several hundred plus 1s, well see. |
Marech Bhayanaka
Misfits United I N G L O R I O U S
61
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Posted - 2015.10.16 01:02:55 -
[1198] - Quote
Querns wrote: People posting about this (both here and from without) are quick to call this "ISK for SP;" did you all deliberately ignore the part where you have to liquidate an existing pilot's skill points to fuel the skill packets?
Use your isk to keep an extra character or three training. Periodically strip their SP and give it to the characters you actually play. Voila, isk for SP. Or $ for SP if you prefer.
Marech. |
Nex Killer
Perkone Caldari State
97
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Posted - 2015.10.16 01:07:43 -
[1199] - Quote
I love the idea, got a few characters that have things traded that I don't want anymore or need. Would love to take them away a sell the SP or reuse that SP. |
Kevin Emoto
The League of Unsettled Gentlemen
39
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Posted - 2015.10.16 01:07:44 -
[1200] - Quote
So....none of the typical MMO "Witness Protection Plan" account services - No name changes - No gender changes - No employment history wipes
but....this!?!?
Seriously, since the end of 2012, the really bad ideas seem to be pouring out, each getting worse than the last.
Please, stop the madness, fix bugs, stop going to places like facebook, twitch and reddit to get input from trolls and actually listen to your player base here in forums and through our CSM electorate.
A really good idea would be to start hiring people who understand what eve players love about this game when we signed up. You know, things like it's harsh, it's beautiful, it's unique?
Easy buttons and the continued WoW-ification efforts aren't welcome to players who have been here a long time. Sure it brings in game-of-the month people, but they leave within a few months, and just want it easy.
Do you want people who invest their time in eve, or do you just want the constant swirl of short term players? If you keep this kind of game 'design' up, you'll likely have neither in a relatively short time. |
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