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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Dave Stark
7550
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:32:51 -
[1651] - Quote
Tippia wrote:I care that you are able to pay to bypass a core game mechanic.
which is what the character bazzar has been doing for people since whenever it was introduced.
i'm glad you're fine with all of this, then. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
1027
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 12:32:59 -
[1652] - Quote
TLDR for the 83 pages:
CCP is dumb
Not today spaghetti.
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darkchild's corpse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
45
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:34:30 -
[1653] - Quote
can we have a dislike button for forum posts please? |
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
51
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:37:19 -
[1654] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
except that nowhere in the devblog, does it state that.
not a single place. there is ONE instance of the phrase "new players" in the devblog, and it doesn't say it's for them. the reference to "new players" is that they've noticed us talking about it. not once have they said this is for new players in that devblog. not a single time.
I have already replied you on that one, yet you keep repeating it. Beside those phrases it is quite obvious that it is mainly aimed at new players, other way it would not need diminishing return mechanics. If it is aimed at everyone make 1mil sp 1 plex for everyone and simple as that. So do not try to twist it out. Also, the main point of all you "supporters" is that it will help new players. While it wont. those phrases don't mention it being for new players at all. "Recently, weGÇÖve seen new threads emerging where EVE players discuss options to help new players with progression. " does not mean "this idea is for newbros". people who say "this is for new players" need to pipe down - not once has this been stated anywhere but the recesses of your minds. Can you please answer on whole posts instead just taking some parts out of the context. Why is there diminishing return mechanism, aimed to give the most of the benefit to the new players (who are ready to spend additional cash) then? So, YES it is aimed mainly at new players. And it fails on that. why the diminishing returns? "As you can see, this design favors skill transfers for younger characters and makes them very inefficient for older characters. WeGÇÖve designed it this way so that we protect the prestige associated with long commitment to a single character." had you read the devblog, you might actually be able to add something meaningful to the discussion.
So you just quoted the part where it says it favors new players and challenged me for stating the same with additional comment that it will not work. Thank you for making your own previous posts looking dump and finally taking away chances that anyone can give some seriousness to your posts. And of course thank you for such great meaningful contribution.
ROFL.
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
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Serina Ieri
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:37:35 -
[1655] - Quote
As a multiyear subscriber PLEASE NO. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26463
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:38:06 -
[1656] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:which is what the character bazzar has been doing for people since whenever it was introduced. GǪexcept that no game mechanics are being bypassed by the bazaar.
Again, I know you are smarter than this, so just stop playing stupid.
WellGǪ unless you've used the character bazaar recently and Dave now has a new owner, in which case, LMAO at not understanding the service you just used.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1305
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:38:22 -
[1657] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: Yeah, as the liquidation has a trivial cost.... what's the cost again, did they tell us yet?
Logical deduction will tell you that this will clearly be affordable if this is meant to be designed to help new players. You are familiar with CCP's microtransaction price policy right? My bet is on it being 1/2 - full PLEX per widget just to create the packet, and I reckon I'm underpricing. Trivial price... yeah |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
530
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:38:43 -
[1658] - Quote
Lol, 83 pages already.
Anyway,
It's dead Jim.
7o
CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25340
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:38:49 -
[1659] - Quote
Estevan Andrard wrote:It is like to ask someone to disprove Eisntein following relativity theory The veracity of Einstein's theory of relativity is open to debate, at least at the quantum level. As with any scientific theory it is subject to revision as new phenomena are observed.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Estevan Andrard
World Traders Guild Channel
130
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:39:10 -
[1660] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tippia wrote:I care that you are able to pay to bypass a core game mechanic. which is what the character bazzar has been doing for people since whenever it was introduced. i'm glad you're fine with all of this, then.
Same logic as plex. With the bazaar, at least someone HAD to endure the training, all the way. HAD to think about it, elaborate it.
With skill sculpting, you not only able to put someone else's skill points freely and such, but you can also model your own char by "liposculpting" your skill pool.
In the bazaar you cannot circumvent the time by agregating skill points from multiple chars in one.
By means of skills modeling, you actually can put several chars to train in order to make a triple, ten fold, hundred fold, skill queue which then you just pull up to one single char.
That is impossible using the bazaar.
If con is the opposite of pro, then is Congress the opposite of progress?
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Dojen Kobunra
Yakuro Dojo Group
0
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:41:27 -
[1661] - Quote
EYS YES ADADA ....
let the "sansha" lords" sell their drones to rookies... aewsome
who knows
one is sure mining bot fleets are boring and code is dumb
so why not try "cloning industry"
just do not give it some odd names like
bazaar or harem ";P
why not name it "THE MATRIX BAY"
good luck CCP)
Creating artificial intelligence and drafting spacetime maps is not a game, its a job for the whole humanity.
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Dave Stark
7550
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:42:23 -
[1662] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:So you just quoted the part where it says it favors new players and challenged me for stating the same with additional comment that it will not work. Thank you for making your own previous posts looking dump and finally taking away chances that anyone can give some seriousness to your posts. And of course thank you for such great meaningful contribution.
ROFL.
actually i quoted the reason why there's diminishing returns - and it quite clearly states it isn't for new players it's to protect the prestige of having an older character.
if you want to make random connections that's cool - but the fact remains that nowhere in the devblog does ccp state this is for new players.
you can say it was intended for new players all you want - however there's not a single statement that supports that assertion. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6852
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:42:32 -
[1663] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: Yeah, as the liquidation has a trivial cost.... what's the cost again, did they tell us yet?
Logical deduction will tell you that this will clearly be affordable if this is meant to be designed to help new players. You are familiar with CCP's microtransaction price policy right? My bet is on it being 1/2 - full PLEX per widget just to create the packet, and I reckon I'm underpricing. Trivial price... yeah Well putting it as AUR does allow them to ... ah what is it...
"tweak knobs" as it were... but then again doing that might be too painful, increasing or decreasing the cost huh?
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall.
We just need more coalitions to exist to destroy them, more legions to be paid off, more lasersov, more something!!
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4152
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:43:46 -
[1664] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:I dont see this as greed just simply a way to make money, after all it is a business and the current model clearly is not working enough for ccp I'll add this.
The idea that businesses basically just have to make as much money as possible is fundamentally wrong.
Businesses are made of people; the ones having more influence on the business' goals are the owners and managers.
People can have all sorts of motivations, making money is just one of them.
On one side of the spectrum, you have companies just wanting to make money, to the point of fraud or illegality even.
On the other side, you have idealists that just want to make a perfect product or service and sometimes end up bankrupt.
Every company has its own culture and priorities, and they change over time.
CCP proposing this new Aurum-related feature just looks like a step closer to the 'greedy' side of the spectrum and farther away from a 'make an awesome game' side...
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6852
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:44:08 -
[1665] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:So you just quoted the part where it says it favors new players and challenged me for stating the same with additional comment that it will not work. Thank you for making your own previous posts looking dump and finally taking away chances that anyone can give some seriousness to your posts. And of course thank you for such great meaningful contribution.
ROFL. actually i quoted the reason why there's diminishing returns - and it quite clearly states it isn't for new players it's to protect the prestige of having an older character. if you want to make random connections that's cool - but the fact remains that nowhere in the devblog does ccp state this is for new players. you can say it was intended for new players all you want - however there's not a single statement that supports that assertion. Making up your own connections to satisfy yourself and prop up a bad position are all part of the intimate experience that is eveo.
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall.
We just need more coalitions to exist to destroy them, more legions to be paid off, more lasersov, more something!!
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Dave Stark
7550
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:44:11 -
[1666] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dave Stark wrote:which is what the character bazzar has been doing for people since whenever it was introduced. GǪexcept that no game mechanics are being bypassed by the bazaar. Again, I know you are smarter than this, so just stop playing stupid. WellGǪ unless you've used the character bazaar recently and Dave now has a new owner, in which case, LMAO at not understanding the service you just used.
a new player who starts playing today can't get past a few thousand SP. the character bazzar bypasses that limit.
so yes, it does.
you're whining that the rate of sp gain can't be changed - which is true however you can totally disregard it by buying a character. so the mechanic is already being bypassed. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26469
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 12:47:54 -
[1667] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:a new player who starts playing today can't get past a few thousand SP. the character bazzar bypasses that limit. No it does not. The new player's characters are restricted by the same mechanics as everyone else's. You are confusing character and player.
Put another way: you say that the character bazaar can bypass the game mechanic that determines how quickly characters acquire skills. Ok, let's test that. I want to train Tippia at 5,000 SP/h (which the new scheme will let me do) rather than the ~2,600 she's currently stuck at. Could you please point me to the post or process in the bazaar that lets me do this.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12670
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:49:00 -
[1668] - Quote
Estevan Andrard wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tippia wrote:I care that you are able to pay to bypass a core game mechanic. which is what the character bazzar has been doing for people since whenever it was introduced. i'm glad you're fine with all of this, then. Same logic as plex. With the bazaar, at least someone HAD to endure the training, all the way. HAD to think about it, elaborate it. With skill sculpting, you not only able to put someone else's skill points freely and such, but you can also model your own char by "liposculpting" your skill pool. In the bazaar you cannot circumvent the time by agregating skill points from multiple chars in one. By means of skills modeling, you actually can put several chars to train in order to make a triple, ten fold, hundred fold, skill queue which then you just pull up to one single char. That is impossible using the bazaar.
+1
Why this is so hard for some to understand is beyond me. PLEX and the character bazaar are one thing, but the "skill sculpting" is another entirely.
CCP should take this thread as a warning of the reaction to come if they go ahead with this, not everyone reads forums/reddit/whatever.
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Banirtal Cadelanne
Cadelanne Mining Corporation Goonswarm Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:49:27 -
[1669] - Quote
Love the idea! Go for it CCP!! |
Eternal Bob
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
43
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:50:01 -
[1670] - Quote
Tippia wrote:You just proved that you do not understand how the character bazaar works. No. The bazaar does not allow you to bypass core game mechanics.
It allows the buyer to bypass the time spent accumulating SP, which is what the proposed idea also does.
Tippia wrote:In fact, it currently requires those game mechanics to have been at work
As does the proposed idea.
Tippia wrote:There are no two ways about it: this idea lets you train skill many times faster than the mechanics for training skills allow
But it doesn't allow sellers to train skills faster than mechanics allow. The sum total of skills distributed amongst player characters will not change. There will be no magical SP generation. All that will happen is that players will be able to trade their time and ISK in a more mutually beneficial way. |
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Alladir
Alladarium
5
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:50:37 -
[1671] - Quote
Basically argument of most haters in this thread :
So I've been playing EVE since before space even existed, well before China started farming WoW gold in the 1800s. It's always touched me in places I never expected. I often sit and think how much headway I could make in life if it wasn't for internet spaceships, but the ship spinning alone brings joy and meaning to my life. But then this new thing was introduced to the game. This new thing will completely break and ruin the game! In the past, I did the old thing in the old way, and that was fine. I did it, I was fine, and nothing went wrong. But now there's this new thing... why?!
There are many reasons why this new thing will break the game.
- The equipment we farmed will have different value now.
- The work we did will be easier or harder for subsequent people to do.
- It is different.
- It is not the same as it was before.
- The way it was before is how I want it to remain.
- It is new.
- I don't like it.
These are just the things that come to mind after barely glancing through the first paragraph of the devpost. But, enough of that. CCPlease, can we please stop this new thing before it's too late? I can tell you all about why the new thing is bad. I did the old thing day in, day out, and I was better at it than all of you. I had Mastery VI of the old thing. If you think my being too used to the old thing is why I dislike the new thing, you are sadly mistaken! For I have like Mastery VIIXIV of the new thing, too. Even though it's new, I'm still better at it than all of you, even the people who are better at it than I am, and I've been better at it since before I was born. But, still, the old thing was better, and this new thing is bad, and wrong, and badly wrong.
Devs, CSMs, ISBs, IPAs, please hear my pleas. This new thing will change the game from how it was before, and this cannot be allowed to happen. Stop, now. I know you'll listen to me, because you always listen to meGÇöand only meGÇöbecause we've known each other all our lives, even when we didn't know it. We used to do the thing (not the new thing, the old one) by the place, and you once told me, "Nez, your three semesters of Game Development at the community college give you more knowledge and experience than all of us together, and we'll let you veto any changes you don't like." Well, that didn't happen. You went behind my back, and you did it to my face. Anyway. I'm not bitter, though I will unsubscribe my eleventy accounts at the drop of a hat if this thing isn't changed. I just want to be clear: I am basically the unofficial CSM chair with my dank skills, this new thing is bad, and the old thing is the only way that anything should ever be done.
(not mine, just sharing)
While i appreciate ppl who actually argument their point why is it bad, it would be nice for more ppl to do the same instead of "QQ Eve is dead, Unsubbing" |
Joffy Aulx-Gao
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
42
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:50:48 -
[1672] - Quote
I'm not a fan of this change.
1. This will be abused in large alliances where they just plex lots of farming alts and give their members all skills to new doctrines, this will mean big alliances will get even more dominant.
2. This will most likely make PLEX prices even higher and we certainly don't need that, we need more ppl not less with more alts!
If CCP needs to get more Money then they need a bigger sale on PLEX to get Price to drop to below 1b Again, many has a hard time to keep playing without grinding for ISK, EVE Online is still a game not a job. |
Dave Stark
7550
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:50:54 -
[1673] - Quote
Tippia wrote:You are confusing character and player.
Put another way: you say that the character bazaar can bypass the game mechanic that determines how quickly characters acquire skills. Ok, let's test that. I want to train Tippia at 5,000 SP/h (which the new scheme will let me do) rather than the ~2,600 she's currently stuck at. Could you please point me to the post or process in the bazaar that lets me do this.
i'm not confusing it. it's simply irrelevant.
funfact; this new service doesn't do that either. tippia will still be training at 2600 sp/hour, you'll just have a higher SP total. the new service directly injects sp, it doesn't speed up training. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6852
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:51:02 -
[1674] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dave Stark wrote:a new player who starts playing today can't get past a few thousand SP. the character bazzar bypasses that limit. No it does not. The new player's characters are restricted by the same mechanics as everyone else's. You are confusing character and player. Put another way: you say that the character bazaar can bypass the game mechanic that determines how quickly characters acquire skills. Ok, let's test that. I want to train Tippia at 5,000 SP/h (which the new scheme will let me do) rather than the ~2,600 she's currently stuck at. Could you please point me to the post or process in the bazaar that lets me do this. It's always funny to see people who've sold the character their forum/jabber account was named after.
They should've been more attached.
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall.
We just need more coalitions to exist to destroy them, more legions to be paid off, more lasersov, more something!!
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Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
51
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:51:15 -
[1675] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:So you just quoted the part where it says it favors new players and challenged me for stating the same with additional comment that it will not work. Thank you for making your own previous posts looking dump and finally taking away chances that anyone can give some seriousness to your posts. And of course thank you for such great meaningful contribution.
ROFL. actually i quoted the reason why there's diminishing returns - and it quite clearly states it isn't for new players it's to protect the prestige of having an older character. if you want to make random connections that's cool - but the fact remains that nowhere in the devblog does ccp state this is for new players. you can say it was intended for new players all you want - however there's not a single statement that supports that assertion.
Let me bold that once more for you. Beside the obvious mechanism which does it.
favors new players
or you need more?
favors new players favors new players favors new players
Please, either stop trolling or start to add some real contribution to the discussion. kktnxbye
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
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Crashys
Zonk Squad CCLP
4
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:51:31 -
[1676] - Quote
Banirtal Cadelanne wrote:Love the idea! Go for it CCP!!
Why only the CCP sponsored goonies love the idea of spending ISK given by CCP on their 'more than proven' aid to help Papa Mittani be something in the game?? Is it because CCP gave you (and continue to give) a perfect game mechanics adjusted to your needs??
LOL
I see EVE as 'Goonies Enterprise' only.
I wish i was being paid like Mittani is by CCP... :( |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6852
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:52:35 -
[1677] - Quote
Alladir wrote:There are many reasons why this new thing will break the game.
- The equipment we farmed will have different value now.
- The work we did will be easier or harder for subsequent people to do.
- It is different.
- It is not the same as it was before.
- The way it was before is how I want it to remain.
- It is new.
- I don't like it.
This is amazing.
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall.
We just need more coalitions to exist to destroy them, more legions to be paid off, more lasersov, more something!!
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Dave Stark
7550
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:52:38 -
[1678] - Quote
Don ZOLA wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Don ZOLA wrote:So you just quoted the part where it says it favors new players and challenged me for stating the same with additional comment that it will not work. Thank you for making your own previous posts looking dump and finally taking away chances that anyone can give some seriousness to your posts. And of course thank you for such great meaningful contribution.
ROFL. actually i quoted the reason why there's diminishing returns - and it quite clearly states it isn't for new players it's to protect the prestige of having an older character. if you want to make random connections that's cool - but the fact remains that nowhere in the devblog does ccp state this is for new players. you can say it was intended for new players all you want - however there's not a single statement that supports that assertion. Let me bold that once more for you. Beside the obvious mechanism which does it. favors new playersor you need more? favors new playersfavors new playersfavors new playersPlease, either stop trolling or start to add some real contribution to the discussion. kktnxbye
favours =/= is designed for.
learn english, kkthnxbye
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
181
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:53:07 -
[1679] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Dave Stark wrote:which is what the character bazzar has been doing for people since whenever it was introduced. GǪexcept that no game mechanics are being bypassed by the bazaar. Again, I know you are smarter than this, so just stop playing stupid. I don't know, perhaps he really is as stupid as he is displaying himself to be in this thread.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
1305
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 12:53:41 -
[1680] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: Yeah, as the liquidation has a trivial cost.... what's the cost again, did they tell us yet?
Logical deduction will tell you that this will clearly be affordable if this is meant to be designed to help new players. You are familiar with CCP's microtransaction price policy right? My bet is on it being 1/2 - full PLEX per widget just to create the packet, and I reckon I'm underpricing. Trivial price... yeah Well putting it as AUR does allow them to ... ah what is it... "tweak knobs" as it were... but then again doing that might be too painful, increasing or decreasing the cost huh? You are also familiar with CCP's stellar history in swift and agile knob twisting right? It only took 11 months til the first sqeaky turn of the jump fatigue knob after all. Light-speed :whoosh:
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