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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Hawk Aldaris
Money Crew
1
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:10:27 -
[2041] - Quote
I see the good intentions here but I also see the exploitation and Pay to Win model happening. For those of you that claim its not pay to win....explain to me pay to win then. If I can buy plex with money, then transfer plex to isk/AU, then buy skill packets with isk/AU that is pay to win......
I hope this is truly not going to happen. Ive been having fun with this game and progression since day one. I take my summer breaks and stay subbed, come back to EvE and have so much fun with my new toys. Develop my personal skills and continue to grind my points. There is nothing wrong with this games progression and it does not need to be destroyed by buying SP.
If we could do a yearly skill extraction or something with a very long timer, then avoid being able to put the packets on the market and restrict them to account only use that would be one thing. This would help characters get rid of those half trained skills they may never use and put their SP they already paid for to good use.
CCP please dont turn this game into a subscribe now and "Get your free lvl 90!" style game...... its heading that direction quick.
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1395
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:10:28 -
[2042] - Quote
The dev blog starts out talking about shortcomings of the character bazaar due to no name changes. Why don't you just fix that problem?
"As you can see, this design favors skill transfers for younger characters and makes them very inefficient for older characters. WeGÇÖve designed it this way so that we protect the prestige associated with long commitment to a single character."
I am not sure of the logic here. It just seems like you are sticking it to loyal customers. (why do vets get bitter?) The prestige of an older player has little to do with how many skillpoints they have since you normally only train one character per account.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
183
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:11:33 -
[2043] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Laodell wrote:Not trying to belittle you in any way here, but here's a very relevant truth:
You haven't spent the time to grow a character for the years the older players have, to be able to appreciate the audacity of your statement. You cannot be asked to hold a valid opinion on a topic you have no frame of reference to understand. Laodell wrote:Because you can't wish consequences away. Who you are, in game or out, is a reflection of the choices you or the previous owner made. That's part of the consequences, or balance if I may, of buying SP though the purchase of a new toon. Moac Tor wrote:If you want a game with no consequences then why are you playing Eve? This is exactly why the change is good. "Consequences" for skill choices is not interesting gameplay. In fact, training skills isn't gameplay at all. I understand you have emotional and philosophical objections against the change but nowhere in your arguments do I see how this change will negative affect gameplay or subscriptions. It is not just a philosophical objection that the players have, the whole concept of eve has always been based around actions having consequences. That is what makes the gameplay interesting and stand out from other more generic MMORPGs. That is why I was asking why are you playing Eve.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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Dave Stark
7560
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:12:17 -
[2044] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:ButGǪthe character bazaar is it broken?
no.
however, would i use it? also no. would i use the new system? probably yes.
why? because the character bazzar seems awkward and clunky to me. in short. so, maybe it is broken if the way it operates is putting people off?
while the bazaar itself isn't broken - it's a long, long way from being user friendly. |
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
194
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:12:46 -
[2045] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:The majority of posts are by around ten people having the typical forum meltdown you'd expect when CCP attempts to stray from the status quo. Actually, of the ten most prolific posters in this thread, only two are clearly against the change. Six are clearly in favour. |
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers Goonswarm Federation
242
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:21:23 -
[2046] - Quote
Putting this plan into action will become more costly most likely then using a character Bazaar. I am sure whatever ISK/Plex/aurum players had to spend to get a 80-110mil SP Character will be vastly cheaper then attempting to create one out of this new method.
Second off, Why are you screwing your long term established players who have dumped tons of cash into your company since 2003 and later by punishing them with the new implementations that you put into the game. Your userbase prides itself on how long it has been in this game, the times it has weathered, taking that advice and teaching the newer players and knowing the long term investment is what they pay for. EVE was always the game that you put the time and work into and it paid off in the long run. It was always changing, always new things to learn and learning those things faster then the Veterans was OUR Competitive edge. While I might not have 100-200M SP I also never cried when I came up against a 2003 player. I either booked it depending on what we were both in or I used what I learned over the time i played, or the group I flew with to defeat the veteran. We either got stomped when we first started.. or coms erupted in cheers when we were able to take down that player after a long fight.
In this new setup you take being a Veteran away and tarnish it. It no longers if your a 2003 player, or a 2009 player. You can just Plex/Isk/Aurum your way to the level of characters YEARS ahead. Worse off, players who are already in this game now can do the same also. Now you suddenly have a 2016 player with 80m SP. Sure he could of purchased it off the Bazaar, but that Character has a history to it, that history of it mattered, the name of that pilot carried weight depending on who used to fly it for being the lucky one to own it. You could have a player in the bazaar one day who is into EVE at the start.. purchasing a character in the future could be mittens, or Grath or progod.. one of the known players with a vast history, someone in the corp going "Do you know who you just purchased" the new player going "no" suddenly looking it up and going "HOLY ****" this toon was in some epic **** in his past. With this new system, Veteran is dead. The Long game of eve.. Is Dead. Current or new players can just Buy SP and Buff the living hell out of characters. Making Wrong choices on your character won't matter anymore because you can just hit the market and buy more SP... Take what you didn't mean to train.. and sell it and recoup the loss. What Happened to the risk? Where did our Long term Reward go? This game has always touted a Risk Vs Reward system, it seems every year you remove more of it and the reason a lot of us got involved. No one joins EVE because its Easy, because its Space WOW. They joined it because of the challenge and camaraderie that YOU PROMOTED.
I understand improving the New Player Experience. Making it easier to LEARN the game. I understood the change to wanting smaller fleet battles for less stress on the server, I accepted this. I accepted suddenly having to take hours longer to move across a region on my alt in a rorqual. I tolerated the factor that over the years you made my damn rorqual I was excited to train into... Effing useless except as a high priced - fuel eating Boosting ship. Replaced by a little less Boosts from an orca and a POS that protects everyone and does the same thing the rorq does. But this just removes the Veterancy and the History this game builds every minute its online. You will have no reason to host a New Player Experience when they can just quickly Buff the character to the SP they need upon first entering the game. The day the character was made no longer matters. Why have implants? why bother planning out a Skill queue, I can get all the ships I want ... NOW. The NEW players that actually don't use the Character Bazaar and use EVE-MON, and the mobile apps, make a path of training for what they want to do and play for the long game.. you now effectively say.. Screw you to.
This is not Improving the new player Experience, this is removing the player experience. The players will not have to go thru skilling up and learning how to fly a frigate, finally getting into a destroyer.. then a cruiser.. finally into a battleship, finally getting t2 guns trained, they won't get excited about finishing Jump cal 5 and getting into that carrier.. because they skipped the entire player experience buying a few items off the market. I remember finally getting into a Dominix back in the day... then my CEO putting me into Structure in an Ishkur.. because I never trained armor fully. Now you can just buy an item and click it to V. That pain and groan of how long a skill is and that rush and joy of finally finishing it will be gone for a new player. At this point they will only have Long skills to train and might say screw the game it takes to long to get something trained. You still then lost that player because they got the Instant gratification of skills trained and suddenly hit the wall of a 45 day skill. Then having to train every 45 day sub skill under it for it to work right. Is that the way we want EVE to go?
Last year I had made a post to you guys, and CCP Falcon Responded to it. Explaining how EVE is and how it should be in his opinion.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4972983
But how much of what he said still exists? How much will exist with these changes? Where did that EVE Online go. Where did the EVE Online go that KEPT the player base logging in and subscribing. New player retention is important, I will not argue that, But so is the retention of your established and long term players.You forgot that the rest of your player base exists and just concentrate on changes for the new players. But if you can't keep new players, and you bleed away the old players with changes like these, Who will still log in?
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Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
25741
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:22:51 -
[2047] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:It is not just a philosophical objection that the players have, the whole concept of eve has always been based around actions having consequences. That is what makes the gameplay interesting and stand out from other more generic MMORPGs. That is why I was asking why are you playing Eve. Please explain to me why you think consequences for skill choices makes for interesting gameplay. What makes interesting gameplay are the choices players make in space and in the meta. Skill training is not gameplay. The consequences of skill training are simply an excuse to deny gameplay.
With SP flexibility, people have the option, albeit at prohibitive prices, to fly a ship they normally can't, immediately. The SP doesn't make them a better pilot, or guarantee in any way that they won't lose the ship.
"We've always done it like this" is a terrible reason, especially in EVE, for keeping a mechanic. It didn't work for clone grades. It won't work here.
And I wish I could shout you out
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Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
25741
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:25:33 -
[2048] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Folks who have old accts that they no longer play with may see this as an easier method to 'cash out'
By Cash out, yes, I mean RMT. Of course they would be in favour of something that would allow them to get some of their money back out of the game. Strip an old character you no longer play with and see cold hard cash in return.
I brought this up in Slack yesterday, and the answer does not seem obvious to me.
How is CCP going to prevent RMT for Skill Points?
And I wish I could shout you out
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12698
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:26:44 -
[2049] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:100 pages in one day.
I would hope that the devs in question now realise their mistake, although them not doing so before hand is already bad enough. The majority of posts are by around ten people having the typical forum meltdown you'd expect when CCP attempts to stray from the status quo.It's not the size that matters, it's the content. And there's not a lot of content in this thread. Just froth and tears. Mr Epeen
Half of the top ten are in favor of the change, including the guy who by far has the most posts, so it's people against the status quo posting over and over against and people for it posting much less often.
Thanks for the typical uninformed mr. epeen post, it's all this thread was lacking.
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
412
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:26:57 -
[2050] - Quote
An additional consideration maybe.
The skill system as we have it now is artificially convoluted and long ... but for a reason.
In theory it would suffice to let players chose a class they want to play as. Want to be a miner ? Here's your mining barge / dwarf in fantasy MMOs. Want to be a healer ? Here's you logistic ship / wizard in fantasy MMOs.
Instead in EVE, we not only get a mining skill, but it also comes in 5 levels of which level 2-4 are useless to the player. On top of that you have dozens of skills related to mining. People who played EvE for a long time will remember when various advanced skills where added to artificially extend the time it would take to get maxed out in a skillbranch. CCP has also lowered some skill requirements to make some ships easier attainable by new players.
What I'm getting at, is that the skill system has the purpose of allowing the players to select the classes as they gain experience with playing the game and also increasing the number of classes availabale over time. The time it took me to specialize in logistic cruisers is the time that I could not spend in training for a heavy interdictor for example. It's also the time that some other player who invested in skills other than logistics related ones, could not use to compete with me on logistics. I can join in incursions as a logistic pilot because logistic pilots are relatively rare ... if every Jim and Jack could replace me within minutes, I wouldn't be as valuable anymore.
The questions we hve to ask are, what problem are we actually trying to solve and what are the mechanics that we want to maintain ?
I think helping the NPE is important. Allowing players to make good on training mistakes or even respecs are nice goals, but we should not fall into the trap of thinking that the monthly sub equates to x amount of SP that must be given to players. I don't pay for SP, I pay for the server being run and maintained + support if needed. Changing the core game is risky business.
Also, can someone explain what this thread is about?-á (Relax ! I'm just quoting Holgrak Blacksmith here.)
When life gives you lemons, swap letters and poof: melons, solemn melons.
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beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
195
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:28:00 -
[2051] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:So Gregor is now twice wrong in that tiny little post. ow, whiplash |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12701
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 18:29:35 -
[2052] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:The majority of posts are by around ten people having the typical forum meltdown you'd expect when CCP attempts to stray from the status quo. Actually, of the ten most prolific posters in this thread, only two are clearly against the change. Six are clearly in favour. e: make that five now, I guess
Damn, beat me to it.
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Dave Stark
7560
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 18:30:34 -
[2053] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:100 pages in one day.
I would hope that the devs in question now realise their mistake, although them not doing so before hand is already bad enough. The majority of posts are by around ten people having the typical forum meltdown you'd expect when CCP attempts to stray from the status quo.It's not the size that matters, it's the content. And there's not a lot of content in this thread. Just froth and tears. Mr Epeen Half of the top ten are in favor of the change, including the guy who by far has the most posts, so it's people against the status quo (ie for the change) posting over and over and over again and people against the change posting much less often (but there are more actual individuals in this group). Thanks for the typical uninformed mr. epeen post, it's all this thread was lacking.
to be honest, stats like that mean very little.
again, reddits superiority shines here. on here when more than 3-4 people are having a discussion in a thread it becomes difficult if not impossible to follow it. reddit's initially awkward formatting gets around this nicely and you can have lots of discussions in the same thread at once without it becoming impossible to follow/participate.
it's basically inevitable most of the posts in here will be made by a small group of people because the format sucks for allowing a large group of people to have any meaningful input. |
Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
25741
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:31:08 -
[2054] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:Instead in EVE, we not only get a mining skill, but it also comes in 5 levels of which level 2-4 are useless to the player. On top of that you have dozens of skills related to mining. This change, as you know, doesn't let you back out prerequisites. I'm just pointing out that throwing this in is unnecessary, and doesn't add anything to the argument against this change.
Quote:What I'm getting at, is that the skill system has the purpose of allowing the players to select the classes as they gain experience with playing the game and also increasing the number of classes availabale over time. The time it took me to specialize in logistic cruisers is the time that I could not spend in training for a heavy interdictor for example. It's also the time that some other player who invested in skills other than logistics related ones, could not use to compete with me on logistics. I can join in incursions as a logistic pilot because logistic pilots are relatively rare ... if every Jim and Jack could replace me within minutes, I wouldn't be as valuable anymore. How do the consequences of skill training choices translate into creating interesting gameplay? Why is gameplay better because I picked a bunch of mining skills and instead would like to fly some PVP ships?
And I wish I could shout you out
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Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
103
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:31:22 -
[2055] - Quote
Two words: Not support |
Borg Stoneson
SWARTA SWARTA.
48
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:31:24 -
[2056] - Quote
I actualy have no problem with the idea of SP being sold on the market. What I don't like is the link to PLEX/AUR and the diminishing returns.
Everything that costs AUR is overpriced and just goes to pushing up the price of ingame PLEX even more.
Reducing the effectiveness for older toons is ridiculous as well, when you're having problems growing and retaining the playerbase adding penalties to the people that are actually sticking around is generaly a bad idea. |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1609
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:35:07 -
[2057] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:beakerax wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:The majority of posts are by around ten people having the typical forum meltdown you'd expect when CCP attempts to stray from the status quo. Actually, of the ten most prolific posters in this thread, only two are clearly against the change. Six are clearly in favour. e: make that five now, I guess So Gregor is now twice wrong in that tiny little post. Anyone want to find strike three so we can petition to get him out of the game? Mr Epeen
I thought you stated that said prolific posters don't count. Also, those being in favour or not does not in any way account for the aye/nay of all the posters. Nice try at trying so hard, though. You should probably post some more about it. |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
412
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 18:38:05 -
[2058] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:It's not the size that matters, it's the content. And there's not a lot of content in this thread. Just froth and tears. Mr Epeen
Size matters ! Team size matters ... it says so in the dev-blog.
How does your post add to the content ? My post above did ...
Also, can someone explain what this thread is about?-á (Relax ! I'm just quoting Holgrak Blacksmith here.)
When life gives you lemons, swap letters and poof: melons, solemn melons.
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Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
25741
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:38:31 -
[2059] - Quote
Don't mistake my posts as 'for' or 'against'.
In my gut I want to be against the change, but I can't seem to find a rationale to justify it to somebody else.
And I wish I could shout you out
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Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
165
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:38:37 -
[2060] - Quote
The hell, don't you ever touch the skillpoints!!! |
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12703
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:38:51 -
[2061] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:
How do the consequences of skill training choices translate into creating interesting gameplay? Why is gameplay better because I picked a bunch of mining skills and instead would like to fly some PVP ships?
For the same reason you lose your ship in EVE and don't have it magically respawn. Because EVE is a game of consequences, you chose to skill mining, that means you wait to pvp unless you spend 2 plex + the character cost in the Bazaar (an exception CCP has made because of the reality that some people will sell characters no matter what).
EVE is a certain kind of game. It should stay that way and turning a necessary evil (character trading) into a full blown unbalanced micro transaction is going the wrong way.
CCP could do lots of things to strengthen the Character Bazaar that doesn't go so overboard.
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Jared Khanar
3
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:39:05 -
[2062] - Quote
Reposting because orig thread got locked and this is the official thread the isd pointed to (there is a little hope left devs are reading this, although I know ccp is going to ignore all of this - as they always do
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=451034&p=2
NOOOOOOOOO!
Quote: Because this is "even more" pay to win in a subscription game. I know one could discuss about this all day long but: with plex and eve-¦s gameplay featuring bigger ships, bigger blobs - even now the rl wallet may decide who-¦s winning if opponents are equally skilled.
- if you only pay your monthly subscription you need to farm / earn all the isk you need to play eve - if you additionally throw money at ccp you can get rid of that part completely - you can pay for simultanious training of another char on your account, a.s.o. - your ability to spend additional money shapes and formes your gaming experience in a major way, many of this features reminds me of things like additional inventar slots in pay to win games - is eve providing equal possibilities and fair chances for everyone like it should be (in a subscription game) - does this even sound like a monthly subscription game any more?
Also you can-¦t compare this SP selling and buying with the existing character bazaar, because this allows you to carefully craft a character the way you choose if you throw enough money at it.
The planned future of eve is getting more and more obvious. But please: This is not a stealth microtransaction game for rich ******
This is a covered skills for rl money exchange - in it-¦s last consequence we could also delete the existing skillsystem now and buy skills directly from ccp instead of other players.
"We promise to never ever do this" - CCP But then they thought greed is good - and they tried ... and tried again... and tried again... It-¦s like the frog in boiling water.
Quote: RL money / or Plex => Aurum => SP Package Transaction
If I understood this right this could only lead to rising plex prices - someone who gets aurum with RL cash doesn-¦t need to buy plex for the market - someone who uses plex to get aurum buys them off the market - please correct me if i-¦m wrong - but if not - expect plexes to skyrocket like never before...
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Amateratsu
The Pegasus Project
82
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:39:49 -
[2063] - Quote
This is utterly the worst thing you could possibly do to the game.
This change will completely obsolete the skill training system. This change will completely obsolete the attribute system This change will completely obsolete the remap system
There is enough isk in game to max out 10's of thousands of characters with every single skill at level 5 (450 million+ sp)
It's taken me over 10 years to get my main character to 207 million sp, now comes along joe blogs who creates a brand new character and then buys enough sp to max out that brand new character with 450 million sp in a day. completely invalidating the years we've spent training our characters in real time.
This change will completely obsolete the character bazarr. Why? buy a new character, when you can simply create a new character to your exact liking and then spec him out with all the skills he'll ever need. No Training Required!!!
Why spend years training skills when you can now buy whatever skills you require for real or in game money.
A 90% loss of sp gained for older characters is irrelevant, they will just buy as many sp packets as they need to get the instant sp they want.
There will be nothing left to strife for in game, as you can buy everything you want, which means the game will quickly get boring.
This change will be the death of Eve GAME OVER!!!.
Well it was fun while it lasted, if this change go's through, I'm outta here. |
Big Lynx
4033
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 18:40:16 -
[2064] - Quote
Well, one step forward to " Eve is dying.." |
Dave Stark
7560
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 18:43:13 -
[2065] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Sibyyl wrote:
How do the consequences of skill training choices translate into creating interesting gameplay? Why is gameplay better because I picked a bunch of mining skills and instead would like to fly some PVP ships?
For the same reason you lose your ship in EVE and don't have it magically respawn. Because EVE is a game of consequences, you chose to skill mining, that means you wait to pvp unless you spend 2 plex + the character cost in the Bazaar (an exception CCP has made because of the reality that some people will sell characters no matter what). EVE is a certain kind of game. It should stay that way and turning a necessary evil (character trading) into a full blown unbalanced micro transaction is going the wrong way. CCP could do lots of things to strengthen the Character Bazaar that doesn't go so overboard.
yeah but you can choose to also sell that character, and buy one without mining skills.... which is basically the same as just selling your mining skills in the proposed idea.
there's really this new system does that the old system doesn't... except the new system cuts out a bunch of unnecessary steps. |
Dave Stark
7560
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 18:44:52 -
[2066] - Quote
Amateratsu wrote:This is utterly the worst thing you could possibly do to the game.
This change will completely obsolete the skill training system. This change will completely obsolete the attribute system This change will completely obsolete the remap system
There is enough isk in game to max out 10's of thousands of characters with every single skill at level 5 (450 million+ sp)
It's taken me over 10 years to get my main character to 207 million sp, now comes along joe blogs who creates a brand new character and then buys enough sp to max out that brand new character with 450 million sp in a day. completely invalidating the years we've spent training our characters in real time.
This change will completely obsolete the character bazarr. Why? buy a new character, when you can simply create a new character to your exact liking and then spec him out with all the skills he'll ever need. No Training Required!!!
Why spend years training skills when you can now buy whatever skills you require for real or in game money.
A 90% loss of sp gained for older characters is irrelevant, they will just buy as many sp packets as they need to get the instant sp they want.
There will be nothing left to strife for in game, as you can buy everything you want, which means the game will quickly get boring.
This change will be the death of Eve GAME OVER!!!.
Well it was fun while it lasted, if this change go's through, I'm outta here.
how will it obsolete the training system? without the training system where are you going to get the SP to buy/sell? especially when this new system deletes up to 90% of the SP extracted and sold. |
BlackWilk
Black Hat Frigates Violent Declaration
2
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:45:03 -
[2067] - Quote
Maekchu wrote:BlackWilk wrote: - I have always loved eve over other MMO's because of the lack of pay2win aspect
What? PLEX is literally a P2W mechanic. It is just one of the more tolerable ones, like XP boosting, which the proposed mechanic would be. EvE has always been P2W, when you can PLEX and legitimately buy characters. And honestly, it is really not that bad, when EvE has a mechanic that forces you to wait several months in order to get into something specific. I don't mind other people getting boosted, since it does not really affect my gameplay. The P2W, that I hope CCP will never get into. Is selling OP modules and ships for real cash. That is true P2W and that is something that would break the game.
Paying real cash for OP ships and modules is already what exists. Pay real cash for plex. Sell plex for isk. Use isk to pay for what you want.
The reason I feel this is tolerable is just because you have the money to buy a Barghest doesnt mean you have the skills to effectively fly it.
Also paying for SP is not the same as paying for an xp boost. In those games you have to grind for xp. So you pay for an xp boost to get a little extra and take less time. Paying for SP would be the equivalent of paying to instantly be a certain level. (yes i know blizzard does this with WoW. there are many reasons i dont play wow and that is one of them.) |
Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
25742
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:46:14 -
[2068] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Sibyyl wrote:
How do the consequences of skill training choices translate into creating interesting gameplay? Why is gameplay better because I picked a bunch of mining skills and instead would like to fly some PVP ships?
For the same reason you lose your ship in EVE and don't have it magically respawn. Because EVE is a game of consequences, you chose to skill mining, that means you wait to pvp unless you spend 2 plex + the character cost in the Bazaar (an exception CCP has made because of the reality that some people will sell characters no matter what). EVE is a certain kind of game. It should stay that way and turning a necessary evil (character trading) into a full blown unbalanced micro transaction is going the wrong way. CCP could do lots of things to strengthen the Character Bazaar that doesn't go so overboard.
Yes "wait to pvp" is how things have always been. But you didn't answer the question. Why do you think waiting is interesting gameplay? I think all of the waiting mechanisms in the game.. GCC.. Jump Fatigue.. are the opposite of interesting gameplay. In fact, these are reasons why people choose to log off (for the duration of the wait) and go do other things.
Having to wait to PVP in a ship is not equivalent to getting free ships after you get destroyed. Skill allocation choices are not the same as choices you make in space. This is a game about choices in space. Why do you think skill allocation choices are a meaningful part of the game, apart from 'this is how it's always been'.
And I wish I could shout you out
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Clancy Davis
Stepping Stone Industries Gentlemen's.Parlor
9
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:48:29 -
[2069] - Quote
Why all the confusing mechanics? Why not just make it so you can have multiple PLEXed training queue on an a character? Or annual "skill remaps"? "[B]e creative. Instead of making sandwiches with bread, use Pop Tarts. Instead of chewing gum, chew bacon."
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Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Squids
25742
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:49:16 -
[2070] - Quote
And let's be honest. Nobody (except for me) actually chose to have mining skills. The tutorial made them think it's a good idea and 3 months later they want to try the 'real game'. How does holding those people to these choices make for interesting gameplay?
And I wish I could shout you out
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