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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.30 19:53:00 -
[541]
Originally by: petergriffen
Fair enough, however why bother posting ridiculous claims that you can neither back up nor prove about 'fake contracts' and unmet obligations?
I take it you havent read the thread then? Please do, I can't be bothered to repeat everything here. Pay particular attention to what one of your ex-Leaders said.
------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
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nickky01
The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.30 19:54:00 -
[542]
i can't believe nobodys flaming BD because he has a madonna CD on his desktop?
i win the thread again \o/
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maGz
The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.30 19:55:00 -
[543]
Originally by: nickky01 i can't believe nobodys flaming BD because he has a madonna CD on his desktop?
i win the thread again \o/
At least he didn't have the mantrain as background
I poo on you and win this thread \o/ ____________
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Nez Perces
Amarr Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.12.30 19:56:00 -
[544]
Originally by: petergriffen
Butter Dog, you started this whole storm over ISS, MC and everyone else involved with the intention that you were going to be removed from ISS Navy. You even said so your self. By acknowledging that fact, and announcing your resignation from ISS before you could be removed, you didn't hold anything back in your little 'smear campaign.'
Unfortunately, I don't think you considered how much your personal reputation would suffer from this. I don't know you and couldn't care less what you say or do, but you've just lost a very big PR war. Whether or not you were 'kicked' or 'left on your own' is moot at this point, because the general consensus from most anyone who has been through this thread is that you've been kicked for being detrimental to ISS interests, and for just being a jackass in general.
Your little screenshot says whatever whoever is reading it wants it to say. Is Count disappointed that Seleene and Co. didn't want to risk their dreads, as well as ISS, FIX, and everyone elses dreads, against a far superior capital force? Even if MC only had 5 or 6 dreads on the op, how many billion ISK does it take to cover those potential losses and still profit on top of that? How much more would it cost for the other Merc outfits there? To be honest, I don't think ISS has that kind of money burning a hole in their pockets.
As was stated earlier, clients pay for our guns, not our friendship.
No no no no... this is just standard MC spin... no no no no.
There is a screenshot with Count T saying things like :
"I think Sel and Ens are being cowards"
[i]"Sel .. well he just showed us what he is made of. No money would have made him do it"... implying that more isk was on the table should MC have agreed to it.[i]
Nothing MC say will change what the screenshot says. Its an employer, MC's primary employer stating that MC are lacking in the testicular department. You can't spin that.
Moving on...
The issue here is threefold:
Is the screenshot real?
If the screenshot is real, can what Count T says be trusted at all, since he would have been lying in statement about Butter Dog on these forums?
If Count T is not insane... then we have to assume that he told Butter Dog in the PM is what he really thinks.. as it was done in private, and he would have nothing to gain by lying to BD.
Either way if the screenshot is not discredited.. then the MC and ISS relationship is dead in the water.
MC will have lost a main source of income, and ISS will have lost their main providers of firepower.
IAC will be laughing its ass off.. BD will be vindicated and would have "won" the thread.. and have a reputation fully restored. The big losers would be MC and ISS.
So please after 19 pages of revelations and logical arguments... no MC brainless spin.. no.
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nickky01
The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.30 19:58:00 -
[545]
Originally by: Nez Perces
BD will be vindicated and would have "won" the thread..
*I* won the thread.
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petergriffen
Amarr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:00:00 -
[546]
Originally by: nickky01 i can't believe nobodys flaming BD because he has a madonna CD on his desktop?
i win the thread again \o/
I already said something about the Madonna CD, so I take one of your victories.
I'm working on it! |
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:01:00 -
[547]
If anyone claimed the screenshot is fake, I will give a neutral party my login and password on the ISS forum so they can check my private messages.
Can't say fairer than that. Maybe Nez could do it? Thats IF someone claims its fake.
------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
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Nez Perces
Amarr Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:01:00 -
[548]
Originally by: petergriffen
Basically what it comes down to is a crying little baby, stomping his feet and screaming because he thinks something is due to him.
No actually atm thats what you are doing...
The screenshot is there for all to see... k..... you can't like wish it away.
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:01:00 -
[549]
Originally by: Butter Dog In the past 12 months your outfit has bypassed tough contracts,
Which ones were those? I ask because we get more than one or two offers a week, most of which come directly to my inbox. So, unless you have access to that or have an alt who happens to be named Neurotic Cat, Larsson7 or Dri Kulsane then you can't possibly know what offers we consider.
Quote: walked away when things looks tough,
Prohibition Part I was called off by me when our client vanished for a week. My guys were dying to keep going, especially after the spanking we took in F4R on the final morning. Outside of that last fight, IAC will tell you that they had one hell of a time fighting MC and FIX. But, as Eddz and others have tried to say over and over - No pay, no shooty shooty. I don't give a damn if that seems realistic to you or not.
Quote: and claimed all the glory for a joint-effort in F4 which saw you contributing only a fraction of the forces.
I think I've been pretty good about thanking those involved. FIX, LV, Tyrell Corp, UK, ISS, Veto... The people who I worked with on a daily basis know who did what and how things went down. It was a joint effort all the way, but do you honestly believe that F4R would be flying the ISS flag today without MC being involved?
Quote: You can only do that for so long before people call you up and tell you what you really are - a self-publicity obsessed drama queen with a chronic lack of balls.
I've been called much worse by people whom I actually have respect for, m8.
Quote: It wasnt about that ONE FIGHT, it was about your outright refusal to fulfil the contract even when AAA logged in the next say and left.
See previous posts by myself and Eddz explaining the mercenary profession to you. -
Vid - 'Images of War' |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:03:00 -
[550]
Nez, I think you are missing an important factor when drawing your conclusion.
The initial contract (as far as I understand) did not include fighting AAA. When the situation changes it isn't just the price that needs to be adjusted.
With MC you need two things, a plan and ISK.
If ISS had no plan to fight AAA, then no amount of ISK would get MC involved. What would be the point? Without an objective mercs serve no useful purpose, certainly not by just by being a meatshield (no matter how well paid).
Even if it is Count's opinion that Sel lacked testicular fortitude, that does not mean it is true. All that post seems to imply is that Count hoped that MC would pew pew for isk, with no goal and no end-point. No self respecting merc outfit would sign up for that gig.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Nez Perces
Amarr Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:03:00 -
[551]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Can't say fairer than that. Maybe Nez could do it? Thats IF someone claims its fake.
Yup I'll do it.. in the interests of fair play.
Seleene knows my mind and how I wouldn't do anytying untoward.
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:03:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: petergriffen
Basically what it comes down to is a crying little baby, stomping his feet and screaming because he thinks something is due to him.
No actually atm thats what you are doing...
The screenshot is there for all to see... k..... you can't like wish it away.
Nez, no one in MC is trying to wash that away. In fact, it's got us all eagerly watching this thread again. Obviously, someone has some explaining to do. -
Vid - 'Images of War' |
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:03:00 -
[553]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 30/12/2006 20:04:38
Originally by: Seleene do you honestly believe that F4R would be flying the ISS flag today without MC being involved?
With FIX, UK, TYC, LV involved?
Yes, I do. The largest hostile fleet we encountered was about 25 BS plus support. It was a cakewalk.
But I suppose in comparison to some of your contracts, you might consider it 'tough'.
------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
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petergriffen
Amarr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:04:00 -
[554]
Originally by: Butter Dog If anyone claimed the screenshot is fake, I will give a neutral party my login and password on the ISS forum so they can check my private messages.
Can't say fairer than that. Maybe Nez could do it? Thats IF someone claims its fake.
Now you're calling one of the few people who have been arguing for your cause a 'neutral party?'
What exactly is your agenda, Butter Dog? Or are you just playing it by ear, much the same way as you FC? I would imagine that most people who want to start a smear campaign have a plan of some sort...
I'm working on it! |
nickky01
The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:05:00 -
[555]
Originally by: petergriffen
Originally by: nickky01 i can't believe nobodys flaming BD because he has a madonna CD on his desktop?
i win the thread again \o/
I already said something about the Madonna CD, so I take one of your victories.
you are my new arch-nemesis
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:06:00 -
[556]
Originally by: petergriffen
Originally by: Butter Dog If anyone claimed the screenshot is fake, I will give a neutral party my login and password on the ISS forum so they can check my private messages.
Can't say fairer than that. Maybe Nez could do it? Thats IF someone claims its fake.
Now you're calling one of the few people who have been arguing for your cause a 'neutral party?'
What exactly is your agenda, Butter Dog? Or are you just playing it by ear, much the same way as you FC? I would imagine that most people who want to start a smear campaign have a plan of some sort...
fine, we can both agree on someone, and THEY can have my login details - its not like I need them anymore
Peter, I have to say you are coming across as being UTTERLY clueless with regard to why I am posting here. Read the thread and cut the drivel.
------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
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petergriffen
Amarr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:06:00 -
[557]
Edited by: petergriffen on 30/12/2006 20:06:23
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: petergriffen
Basically what it comes down to is a crying little baby, stomping his feet and screaming because he thinks something is due to him.
No actually atm thats what you are doing...
The screenshot is there for all to see... k..... you can't like wish it away.
Nez, no one in MC is trying to wash that away. In fact, it's got us all eagerly watching this thread again. Obviously, someone has some explaining to do.
Yes, I am also anxiously awaiting Count's response. I'm not arguing the screenshot. The photoshop comment was a joke about the Madonna folder being in plain view on the desktop.
"If the photo was fake, why would he want to incriminate himself further by leaving it there instead of removing it?"
note: sense of humor required.
I'm working on it! |
Nez Perces
Amarr Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:06:00 -
[558]
Originally by: Avon
If ISS had no plan to fight AAA, then no amount of ISK would get MC involved. What would be the point? Without an objective mercs serve no useful purpose, certainly not by just by being a meatshield (no matter how well paid).
Even if it is Count's opinion that Sel lacked testicular fortitude, that does not mean it is true. All that post seems to imply is that Count hoped that MC would pew pew for isk, with no goal and no end-point. No self respecting merc outfit would sign up for that gig.
Perhaps... what you are typing would make senes.. but for one thing.
This was not some first time contract, ISS are MC's primary employer.. afte all this time, suddenly ISS became inept and could not put a plan together with some isk??
Comeon Avon. Something is wrong here.
Something is wrong... its there but you cant touch it. If the screenshot is real then ISS and MC have fallen out massively.
Is it because ISS have become inept, or is it because MC bailed out when the going got tough?
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:07:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Reknaw A'ru
Originally by: freek ...TBH most of MC gave up in F4R long before...
So you don't always 100% commit to finishing a contract?
Nope.
If freek is online and Seleene or whoever is in command tell him to push the button, freek goes into ******* siege or I call him primary myself. :)
"haven given up" doesn't mean we won't do the job. I think he was just relaying the feelings he was experiencing. :)
Not too happy with freek's post though, emotions aren't really the best thing in threads like these. :) -
- One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them. |
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:08:00 -
[560]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 30/12/2006 20:08:40
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: petergriffen
Basically what it comes down to is a crying little baby, stomping his feet and screaming because he thinks something is due to him.
No actually atm thats what you are doing...
The screenshot is there for all to see... k..... you can't like wish it away.
Nez, no one in MC is trying to wash that away. In fact, it's got us all eagerly watching this thread again. Obviously, someone has some explaining to do.
No-one has any explaining to do.
Count paid you to do something, he has a right to his opinion about it. Or can your precious ego not cope with someone failing to worship all you do behind your back?
Your provide a service, people pay for that service, and now they arent allowed to voice dissatisfaction amougst their own ranks?
Never has the phrase 'get over yourself' been more appropriate.
------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
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petergriffen
Amarr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:08:00 -
[561]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: petergriffen
Originally by: Butter Dog If anyone claimed the screenshot is fake, I will give a neutral party my login and password on the ISS forum so they can check my private messages.
Can't say fairer than that. Maybe Nez could do it? Thats IF someone claims its fake.
Now you're calling one of the few people who have been arguing for your cause a 'neutral party?'
What exactly is your agenda, Butter Dog? Or are you just playing it by ear, much the same way as you FC? I would imagine that most people who want to start a smear campaign have a plan of some sort...
fine, we can both agree on someone, and THEY can have my login details - its not like I need them anymore
Peter, I have to say you are coming across as being UTTERLY clueless with regard to why I am posting here. Read the thread and cut the drivel.
You haven't POSTED anything with ANY merit except for a screenshot of a message that Count sent to you in a private forum. If you think you're posting to 'expose MC for being corrupt' or whatever, you lost that war on Page 1.
I'm working on it! |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:08:00 -
[562]
Originally by: Nez Perces
This was not some first time contract, ISS are MC's primary employer.. afte all this time, suddenly ISS became inept and could not put a plan together with some isk??
A plan, sure. A plan in a day to effectively fight AAA? Tricky.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:10:00 -
[563]
Originally by: petergriffen
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: petergriffen
Originally by: Butter Dog If anyone claimed the screenshot is fake, I will give a neutral party my login and password on the ISS forum so they can check my private messages.
Can't say fairer than that. Maybe Nez could do it? Thats IF someone claims its fake.
Now you're calling one of the few people who have been arguing for your cause a 'neutral party?'
What exactly is your agenda, Butter Dog? Or are you just playing it by ear, much the same way as you FC? I would imagine that most people who want to start a smear campaign have a plan of some sort...
fine, we can both agree on someone, and THEY can have my login details - its not like I need them anymore
Peter, I have to say you are coming across as being UTTERLY clueless with regard to why I am posting here. Read the thread and cut the drivel.
You haven't POSTED anything with ANY merit except for a screenshot of a message that Count sent to you in a private forum. If you think you're posting to 'expose MC for being corrupt' or whatever, you lost that war on Page 1.
you seriously need to read the thread, because you're looking rather silly right now
But please do carry on making clueless comments if you enjoy public ridicule.
------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
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petergriffen
Amarr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:11:00 -
[564]
I do enjoy public ridicule, that's why I'm reading a thread with the public ridiculing you.
I'm working on it! |
Nez Perces
Amarr Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:11:00 -
[565]
Originally by: petergriffen
Now you're calling one of the few people who have been arguing for your cause a 'neutral party?'
Actually I don't like Butter Dog much, I think he is obnoxious, has a big mouth... etc.. etc...
I have no dog in this race, other than to see it reach a logical fair conclusion, simply because I believe the forums can be a valuable tool, beyond the usual smack, propaganda fests.
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maGz
The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:12:00 -
[566]
Should the screenshot posted by BD be real, I personally think it would be in the best interests of MC to stop the damage control and come clean.
I couldn't care less of what happens to MCs reputation, however currently you seem to be focusing on everything else but the actual issue - the issue being that you supposedly refused to fight AAA no matter what the cost would be. It's fair to state that you wont fight an enemy like AAA, however your current behaviour, that screenshot along with that discussion a few months back about people needing a plan etc. does nothing but hurt your reputation as mercs. ____________
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:13:00 -
[567]
Originally by: petergriffen I do enjoy public ridicule, that's why I'm reading a thread with the public ridiculing you.
Oh god, now you're just trolling.
No-one is ridiculing me here. All my points stand, pretty much uncontested and with proof. I've quoted my sources.
You'll notice several people who are NOT MC are actually saying that they like what I'm saying.
------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
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Nez Perces
Amarr Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:14:00 -
[568]
Originally by: Avon
A plan, sure. A plan in a day to effectively fight AAA? Tricky.
Right.. but its a two-way street Avon.. if ISS really wanted MC to attack AAA and put isk and a plan together... with the long standing relationship they have MC should have been able to meet them half way and elaborate a more suitable plan perhaps at a time of MC's chosing.
What seems to have happened is a complete breakdown in the long-standing relationship.
The question is why?
Did ISS suddenly become retarded? or did MC see AAA arrive.. and said "no way Jose"?
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Christopher Multsanti
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:18:00 -
[569]
Originally by: Avon Nez, I think you are missing an important factor when drawing your conclusion.
The initial contract (as far as I understand) did not include fighting AAA. When the situation changes it isn't just the price that needs to be adjusted.
With MC you need two things, a plan and ISK.
If ISS had no plan to fight AAA, then no amount of ISK would get MC involved. What would be the point? Without an objective mercs serve no useful purpose, certainly not by just by being a meatshield (no matter how well paid).
Even if it is Count's opinion that Sel lacked testicular fortitude, that does not mean it is true. All that post seems to imply is that Count hoped that MC would pew pew for isk, with no goal and no end-point. No self respecting merc outfit would sign up for that gig.
Point is Avon, there was an objective. Take the outposts. Triple A turning up changed one thing, it the made the job harder, but it us up to MC to say if the job is possible, how to plan it and how much extra to charge.
It's great being Amarr that flys Minmintar aint it?
EVIL SYNNs > Bob are the best, we have to pay them to use the plexs...
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petergriffen
Amarr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.30 20:19:00 -
[570]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: petergriffen I do enjoy public ridicule, that's why I'm reading a thread with the public ridiculing you.
Oh god, now you're just trolling.
No-one is ridiculing me here. All my points stand, pretty much uncontested and with proof. I've quoted my sources.
You'll notice several people who are NOT MC are actually saying that they like what I'm saying.
The issue here is you consider what your cousins' best friends' sisters' boyfriends' mother said as proof. Nobody can 'prove' the lack of a client in Prohibition 1 unless a) MC directors come forward with a name, or b) The client himself comes forward. Since we all know A is not going to happen, all we can hope for is B.
Everything you said about MC taking 'soft' contracts has been met with a reasonable response. It has been explained to you that this is a business, we're in it for the Isk. We don't need to prove ourselves to you. You choose to ignore every response given for every question asked, and still say the same thing over with no REAL PROOF other than this person saying that.
The ONLY thing you have brought to light, as I said, is a screenshot of a message from a private forum, which is up for debate as the message itself can be construed in a number of ways, depending on who's reading it. You're not the first person to call MC's reputation into question, nor will you be the last.
I'm working on it! |
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