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CaperPuts
Minmatar
Life. Universe. Everything.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2006.12.29 08:35:00 -
[31]
How come damage and Rate of Fire bonuses always seem to be 5%?
Why not give the Maelstrom a 5% damage bonus... and a 2% RoF bonus per level? Or a 10% built in RoF bonus.
Hell, maybe a 7% Damage bonus?
I really don't mind the 7.5% shield boost per level. But I think Minmatar could use a ship where they are the UNMATCHED king of an alpha strike.
I have tried AC setups on this... it tanks better than my Tempest... but my tempest has two extra high slots to do whatever I please with. (I actually prefer doing x5 AC's and x2 Neutralizers and a Nosferatu, but no way I could get a decent DPS setup on a Maelstrom with only 5 guns)
I'm going to wait and see what CCP decides to do with this ship before I buy it. Atleast make it interesting 
lolz |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2006.12.29 09:27:00 -
[32]
To be a good artie boat, it would need a different secondary bonus, range or tracking.
For AC it DESESPERATELY NEEDS speed. Or give it an extra low so we can put a free extra inertia stab or nanofiber to aleviate the problem.
Where the hell can you imagine a minmatar ship that main adjective is SLOW?
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2006.12.29 09:29:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: CaperPuts
How come damage and Rate of Fire bonuses always seem to be 5%?
Why not give the Maelstrom a 5% damage bonus... and a 2% RoF bonus per level? Or a 10% built in RoF bonus.
Hell, maybe a 7% Damage bonus?
I really don't mind the 7.5% shield boost per level. But I think Minmatar could use a ship where they are the UNMATCHED king of an alpha strike.
I have tried AC setups on this... it tanks better than my Tempest... but my tempest has two extra high slots to do whatever I please with. (I actually prefer doing x5 AC's and x2 Neutralizers and a Nosferatu, but no way I could get a decent DPS setup on a Maelstrom with only 5 guns)
I'm going to wait and see what CCP decides to do with this ship before I buy it. Atleast make it interesting
I think the best thing would be a 5% damage bonus and.. another 5% damage bonus .... 8 1400 with 50% extra damage would make us king of alpha strike again.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
darth solo
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.12.29 09:55:00 -
[34]
its tasty.. tanks and hits like a beast.
it also just laughs at any tec2 (autocannon) fitting u try and put on it.
thumbs up(not up my hoop mind, thats stuff hurts).
d solo.
celes apoc kill board |
Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2006.12.29 09:59:00 -
[35]
Originally by: 6Bagheera9
PvE:
Much better at running level 4s than my phoon. I can sit at 50-60km and just pound the **** out of anything in the level. The big difference is that the Maelstrom can fit a very strong tank while still mounting 8x 1400mm, basically its the Minmatar's answer to the Raven. The only real problem is tracking, artys have ****ty tracking for the range the fight at and you can only spare so many midslots for tracking comps. Drones are pretty much the option for dealing with rats that get under your guns.
Try a Machariel, it only costs 300m more and you will never look back ;-).
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darth solo
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.12.29 10:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Twin blade
It sucks Tempest is better in every way.
iv been flying pests for years and i 100% guarantee id take down ur pest in a 1v1 AC fight.
and how is the pest better at tanking?. this ship has a 7.5% bonus to shield boost and 1 extra mid. if u wanna armour tank ur pest which u will running ACs u will NEVER break my tank.
d solo.
celes apoc kill board |
Brother Tycho
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.29 11:11:00 -
[37]
Was never intended to be better than the other matar BS's but it gives you the option of tank and gank to a degree just setup mids and lows like you would a raven, tank in mids and a mix of diags and gyros in lows, get creative with Rigs if theres something you think the ship is lacking.
It's great being Amarr, aint it?
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Croglett
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Posted - 2006.12.29 11:17:00 -
[38]
Maelstrom is good for missions, just general PVP until it gets to the point where the npcs have reached that 25KM mark and you guns might as well be in your cargohold.
It does have 100m3 drone bay, but I dont think this is enough tbh. If maelstrom had 150m3 I would use it so much more.
It gets a thumbs up in PVE (partially)
Thumbs down in PVP - Its too expensive when tempest is only slightly worse than the maelstrom for artillery, and tempest is a lot better with ACs.
/signed maelstrom gets a damage bonus over the ROF one and 150m3 drone bay :)
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2006.12.29 11:27:00 -
[39]
In fact damage bonus is worse than rof. That is not the issue. The issue is. It hasa dual face. a shield bonus that is good for AC and bad for arties, and slow .. that is no problem for arties and very bad for AC. So it needs a better second bonus or more speed. Simple.
a shield HP bonus would make it quite good for fleet. Or 15 extra m/s (even 10) would make it a good AC boat). We need one of the two and keep the rof (otherwise tempest will outdamage maelstrom)
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
cy4n1d3
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Posted - 2006.12.29 11:35:00 -
[40]
It's nice ship, it just has crap bonuses for an arty boat. Give it damage/shield resists or damage/damage.
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Pesadel0
Vagabundos
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Posted - 2006.12.29 12:04:00 -
[41]
I bought one to mine .
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Twin blade
Minmatar
The Caldari Confederation
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Posted - 2006.12.29 12:22:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
Originally by: Twin blade
Originally by: Neo Providence
...
It can shield tank better than a tempest but thats about it the damage is all most the same given how temp's can load more drone's.
huh? Since when is 100m¦ less then 75m¦? 
Since i became the King of math's at 4.30am.
Originally by: darth solo
Originally by: Twin blade
It sucks Tempest is better in every way.
iv been flying pests for years and i 100% guarantee id take down ur pest in a 1v1 AC fight.
and how is the pest better at tanking?. this ship has a 7.5% bonus to shield boost and 1 extra mid. if u wanna armour tank ur pest which u will running ACs u will NEVER break my tank.
d solo.
Just Nos you and use T2 drone/gun's and Jamm you to hell so you can't do any thing back and hope i can drain your cap befor you get help.
The Phoon can tank just as good as a maelstorm.
2 LAR
4 harder's
1 1600mm
Add a injector and 4 heavy nos and it will out tank a maelstorm and way out last it and still be faster and just as deadly in short range.
!
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2006.12.29 12:40:00 -
[43]
aa yehh so dont forget the 3 gyro 2 I will be fielding on the low slots that make the mael outdamage you by a LOT! And also a DCU II in low to further increase resist on shields...
Things are not that simple.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.12.29 13:17:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tyler Lowe
It tanks disgustingly well. I was able to handle the entire 3rd stage of pirate slaughter with ease. The dps involved was simply impossible to deal with in even my Tempest Fleet, and would pop a Typhoon in seconds. I have intentionally aggroed entire levels just to see how she handles and have watched in absolute amazement as my shields have remained pegged at 99%.
actually is not that pirate slaughter is that hard... i made it in a phoon and whitout any problem...
the situations (missions) when a standard 1 lar tank phoon is not enought are veeery few and eventually ther's a dual lar option
instead i see more problems to kill ships in missions like the extravaganza when "enter" at 10 to 40km range from enemies and with ships that orbit at 25-30km.
in this situation both ACs and 1200mm are not very effective as you are going to miss a lot and with ACs you have still to await that enemies get in range.
if you fit an AB and a webber (imo quite needed to have a good dps in such situations) you end up with a so and so 3 slot tank (1 slot used for cap booster) that is probably going to be worse or at best equal than a 5 slot armor tank
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.29 14:03:00 -
[45]
One thing is for sure, theres no point in Fleet Tempests with Maelstrom around.
Maelstrom Damage > Tempest due to space for more Gyro's
Tempests Tackling > Maelstrom
Tempests Speed/Agility > Maelstrom
Tempests Space for EW > Maelstrom
Maelstroms Tank > Tempest (assuming all slots dedicated to tanking)
So if your looking for a damage dealer for gangs Maelstrom is better, even with seige the Pest is lower due to the lows for Gyro's on the Maelstrom.
But if your looking for damage dealer a phoon gets close, I think from memory Maelstrom with EMP and T2 800's using T2 HH's is about 900 DPS, a Phoon with T2 Dual 425's, T2 Seige and T2 Ogres is about 800 dps. There tanks aren't that different (1x LAR T2 + 1600 + 3x Actives + EANM + DC vs 1x XL + 30% amp + ship bonus + 3x hards + DC) but phoon can tackle and move better...
I still WTB a role for the Maelstrom.  I guess its good if you have isk + gunnery + shield skills finstead of armour + gunnery + missiles + drone skills it takes for a typhoon.
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Sebroth
Coordination Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.12.29 14:19:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ath Amon
PVE
- missions: phoon is a better pve ship with 2 out of 3 very versatile weapon systems, mael can fit a better tank but that's not really necessary, mael damage output is a bit gimped compared to phoon due to tracking issues
- ratting: any BS works well here imo the relevant thing here is cost and mael doesn't really shine in that
- complexes: mael tank can be good here, but a rokh and probably even an abbadon will perform better (speaking about BS)
PVP
- solo: not a good ship for solo pvp
- small gang: for my taste is not a very good gang ship, it needs to fit nanos/inertia in lows to approach fast, is quite vulnerable to nos, it can fit a big tank+gank but an EW approach is generally more effective
- fleet: a bit more dps/alpha and eventually hps at higher fitting price than a pest... is also going to fight in abaddon range... abaddon damage and shield tank = a lot of pain
what went wrong with this ship?
the ship is not that bad but it suffer from some problems...
it is too slow and cumbersome to be an effective AC boat and also is imo too vulnerable to NOS...
it have an useless bonus to be a good fleet boat... new fleet ships (caldari and amarr) have a good defensive and offensive bonus... is quite logical that a ship with just 1 effective bonus can't compete
arty are EXTREMELY underpowered compared to other long range turrets... they lost their alpha in these years but nothing was done to rebalance them... + 40-50% range imo will be a good solution to this problem
qft
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Never knock on Death's door; ring the doorbell and run (he hates that) |
Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.29 15:32:00 -
[47]
give it more speed, all it needs. fleets suck ac all the way
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Kinsy
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.12.29 16:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Twin blade
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
Originally by: Twin blade
Originally by: Neo Providence
...
It can shield tank better than a tempest but thats about it the damage is all most the same given how temp's can load more drone's.
huh? Since when is 100m¦ less then 75m¦?
Since i became the King of math's at 4.30am.
Originally by: darth solo
Originally by: Twin blade
It sucks Tempest is better in every way.
iv been flying pests for years and i 100% guarantee id take down ur pest in a 1v1 AC fight.
and how is the pest better at tanking?. this ship has a 7.5% bonus to shield boost and 1 extra mid. if u wanna armour tank ur pest which u will running ACs u will NEVER break my tank.
d solo.
Just Nos you and use T2 drone/gun's and Jamm you to hell so you can't do any thing back and hope i can drain your cap befor you get help.
The Phoon can tank just as good as a maelstorm.
2 LAR
4 harder's
1 1600mm
Add a injector and 4 heavy nos and it will out tank a maelstorm and way out last it and still be faster and just as deadly in short range.
No...that wont work either.
If your 1v1 why the **** for starters would you be using ECM? Even then you'd what, damp & tracking disrupt? Oh wait Malestrom can do that too...
2 NOS doesnt suck enough to make it worth your while.
Why cant i use t2 drones? Oh wait, i can. Sooo...
The guns require no cap and your doing more damage in the Malestrom (even if its slightly more its still more).
And as for the Typhoon...2 reps and 4 hardeners while your doing crap dps, cause you've barely got grid to fit heavy launchers and medium artilleries after that fit in lows. A shield tanked Maelstrom is not doing crap dps.
Finally...
All darth has to do to pop your ship is focus his mind on the system your in. Concord then open a cyno and he doomsdays your ass 
Seriously, 1v1 him if you got the time.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.12.29 16:22:00 -
[49]
1vs1 is not for mael
you need at least a scram and a cap booster (so only 4 midslot left for tank)
you should also need an AB or a MWD and a webber to be able to get in range (2 slot left for tank)
so you are going to fit damps and armor tank or to tank with 2-3 slots
i will take a tempest or a phoon over it anyday...
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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Drek Grapper
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Posted - 2006.12.29 17:04:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tyler Lowe
Now that I have had a couple off weeks running missions in one, I finally feel comfortable commenting on this ship in a PVE role.
It's really quite good overall.
highpoints:
It's got very good targeting range by default. Good enough to use 1200's out to their practical limits (assuming tech I ammo) without a sensor boost.
It does not require battleship 5 to do decent damage. I still have the better part of a month to go on battleship 5, and this is a big deal for the moment.
The drone bay is large enough to allow for some versatility. I can carry some throw away tech I's for when I am unsure of how drones may affect aggro in addition to the normal payload of tech II small and medium mission specific drones. The other option is a webber drone, which allows 1200 to hit cruisers reasonably well, even up close.
It tanks disgustingly well. I was able to handle the entire 3rd stage of pirate slaughter with ease. The dps involved was simply impossible to deal with in even my Tempest Fleet, and would pop a Typhoon in seconds. I have intentionally aggroed entire levels just to see how she handles and have watched in absolute amazement as my shields have remained pegged at 99%.
It has a very generous cap size by Minmatar standards. This allows you to run an afterburner and shield boost for an amount of time that would be impossible in other Matari ships.
The ship has proven to be reasonably flexible, and has done well with autocannon, 1200mm setups designed to tank heavy and fight at mid range, and with 1400mm sniping setups. I have used all three of these basic concepts, employing a a fair number of variations on each, and found all to be successful within their intended scope, though the ship does still seem to be missing a little something in this regard.
Lowpoints:
The two "extra" slots on my Tempest are sorely missed.
It handles like a brick. Both acceleration and top speed (even with a faction AB) are horrible. This feels more like a Caldari ship than a Matari ship when trying to dictate range and transversal.
It feels like it's missing a low slot........................................................
Price. A couple of extra 1200's are no big deal really, but dropping another 50 million on 1400mm scouts after coughing up 170 million for the hull made this ship a bit on the pricey side to get started with.
Will this ship cause any Raven pilots to start training Howitzers? Probably not. The Rokh is an excellent ship in it's own right, and their time would be better spent learning large rail spec than dabbling in Matar ships and weapons. The ship does fill a role that Minmatar battleships had been missing: heavy tank. It fills the role admirably too. Given an active tank setup, there is no other battleship that can hope to compete with this ship in terms of it's ability to laugh off insanely high incoming dps.
Looking strictly at the PVE picture with this ship, it is worth the expense, but only if you are already well versed in mission running with the Tempest IMO. The tactics really do not change much, but because of the Maelstrom's lack of agility and sluggish handling, the ship can be a bit more difficult to use to maximum effect. Maximum profits and ease of use still belong to the Raven, but if the thought of running missions in a missile boat bores you to death, this really is not the worst you could do.
Hey Tyler,
Could you post setup please? I wanna start doing 4's solo and hoping that this ship might be the alternative to the usual Raven/Gist Shld Booster/AFK scenario.
Comments in this thread have been varied to say ther least. Right now i'm thinking...not worth it. I would like to change my mind though. We all wanna fly a teir 3 BS at some stage.... Even if everyone else says its ****!
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h4rdcore
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Posted - 2006.12.29 17:37:00 -
[51]
Thing with it is, its obviously made for fleet, but then, why do we need a tanking bonus because in fleet its all about using sensorboosters and tracking comps, i mean i guess a shieldbooster is ok for a quick boost but once your into armour without a rep, u cant repair it, where as shields recharge anyway. So for fleet seems rather pointless.
In the description it says its a great Solo/small group ship. HOW BIG A LIE IS THIS?! First off, with its slow speed, bad agility and with a shield bonus it cant MWD anywhere quick, and if you do want to fit ACs then you are left with a shield bonus thats useless if you want to tackle anything (hence the solo part being stupid?) unless your armour tank, which straight away means you have a bonus not used.
Then again you could fit 1400's with close range ammo and warp to 0km? but what if there is a bubble where you have warped/jumped into? (which happens more and more with interdictors!) then you need a MWD to get out of it, which means less tank, which means why not go ACs and armour tank for solo?
Even with 8x 1400 II's with tank setup for close, you'd do a better job with a tempest, 6x ACs and a mwd simply because your faster, the ACs can track better at those closer ranges, and the damage output of the tempest + ACs is higher anyway. As for tank, if you cant track anything and your slow to get away, your easily NOSed and or run out of cap/cap boosters and die anyway...
So for PVP it seems pointless apart from MAYBE fleet, but id prefer 2 tempests for the price.
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Stakler
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Posted - 2006.12.29 17:59:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Stakler on 29/12/2006 18:03:21
I bought it, I fitted it, I rigged it, I flew it:
First imperessions:
- Amazing tank!
- Amazing Damage!
--
- Does this thing even move?
- Holy cow at the price! Around 450m (with rigs)
I tried it a bit, then I found a Typhoon from my hangar (nano one), boarded it, flew it. Omg this is the flexibility, speed and style I want, to hell with the Maelstrom!
Shortly: not for solo, boring in gangs etc. Nanophoon is much more fun to fly in PVP, whetever it's solo or gang.
Hint: Want-to-sell: rigged+fitted Maelstrom
Fit shortly: 8x 800mm Repeating Artillery II, 1x XL C5-L Booster, 1x Shield Boost Amp I, 2x invul Field II, 1x Photon Scat II, 1x Heavy Electrochemical Cap Booster, 3x Gyro II, 1x DCU II, 1x PDS II
Rigs: 2x Capacitor Control Circuit I, 1x <whatever is the name of the rig that reduces shield booster cycle time>
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Sadao
Minmatar
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.29 18:01:00 -
[53]
Stakler = Sadao
So contact me if you wanna buy this thing from me :P
---
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.29 19:14:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Sadao
Stakler = Sadao
So contact me if you wanna buy this thing from me :P
You put the wrong rigs in it, what a waste.
----------------------------------------
Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Tyler Lowe
Minmatar
DROW Org
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Posted - 2006.12.29 21:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ath Amon
actually is not that pirate slaughter is that hard... i made it in a phoon and whitout any problem...
the situations (missions) when a standard 1 lar tank phoon is not enought are veeery few and eventually ther's a dual lar option
instead i see more problems to kill ships in missions like the extravaganza when "enter" at 10 to 40km range from enemies and with ships that orbit at 25-30km.
in this situation both ACs and 1200mm are not very effective as you are going to miss a lot and with ACs you have still to await that enemies get in range.
if you fit an AB and a webber (imo quite needed to have a good dps in such situations) you end up with a so and so 3 slot tank (1 slot used for cap booster) that is probably going to be worse or at best equal than a 5 slot armor tank
Well, I guess "easy" is pretty subjective. If you are intent on clearing the level and collecting on all those nice, juicy NPC bounties,I find tanking 1200 dps Kinetic, 250 dps Thermal to be a nightmare when armor tanking by comperison to running a shield tank on the Mael, particularly if you wanted to leave any room at all for damage mods. If you get your armor Kinetic resistance up to about 88%, 2x LAR II will deal with 1167 Kinetic Dps and nothing more than that. Looks like 2x kinetic, 1x thermal, 1x eamn II, and a DCU to reach that which leaves exactly 2 slots, which will 100% have to be a dual LAR setup. You will be reliant on cap boosters to run it, naturally, so when you run out of 400 charges, looks like it's time to warp out.
Dual LAR on a Phoon also leaves very little room up top for firepower, so you are looking at cruise and 425's. Neither of which will get modified other than by ship bonuses and skill, as there is no remaining slot for a damage mod to occupy. The lag on this mission is quite fierce once all of those npc's start chucking missiles at you, the majority of which are, by the way heavies, so the Phoon's sig is no real advantage here. This makes micro managing drone targets a real headache, and the drones are prone to do their own thing anyway when lag gets bad.
Warp in's featuring webbers are really no big deal, honest. They are nothing new, and if you were able to deal with it in a Tempest, you are able to deal with it in a Maelstrom.
This next part isn't in response to your post Ath:
The Maelstrom is far from a perfect ship, but all of the posts I see seeking to derail productive discussion of what the ship actually can do are getting tiresome. If it isn't what you had hoped for, fly something else. If it serves no purpose, and in your mind all roles are already admirably filled by the Tempest or Typhoon, fly one of those and rest secure in the knowledge that you have the perfect ship to suit your playstyle. If the Rokh is your dream ship and the Maelstrom just doesn't measure up to that, train for the Rokh. For pity's sake though, if your sum total of experience with the Maelstrom consists of "common sense" and what "seems obvious" please feel free not to share. There are already quite enough ignorant posts based on conjecture without any further contributions.
J.A.F.O.
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Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2006.12.30 10:17:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
In fact damage bonus is worse than rof. That is not the issue. The issue is. It hasa dual face. a shield bonus that is good for AC and bad for arties, and slow .. that is no problem for arties and very bad for AC. So it needs a better second bonus or more speed. Simple.
a shield HP bonus would make it quite good for fleet. Or 15 extra m/s (even 10) would make it a good AC boat). We need one of the two and keep the rof (otherwise tempest will outdamage maelstrom)
If Maelstrom had damage bonus, Tempest won't outdamage Maelstrom ever. Let's see with normalised to number of guns of damage output(and alpha too) for each level of the bs skill
Tempest dps: 6.632 -> 7.333 -> 8.118 -> 9 -> 10
Tempest alpha: 6.3 -> 6.6 -> 6.9 -> 7.2 -> 7.5
Maelstrom(RoF) dps: 8.421 -> 8.889 -> 9.412 -> 10 -> 10.667
Maelstrom(Rof) alpha: stays 8
Maelstrom(Dmg) dps: 8.4 -> 8.8 -> 9.2 -> 9.6 -> 10
Maelstrom(Dmg) alpha: 8.4 -> 8.8 -> 9.2 -> 9.6 -> 10
So Tempest won't ever outdamage a Maelstrom with RoF bonus, but at lvl 5 the advantage is only 6.667% more dps for the maelstrom(alpha is also 6.667% more at lvl 5).
On the other hand a Maelstrom with a damage bonus will at lvl 5 have the same dps as a tempest at lvl 5 but have an alpha that is 33.33% more then the tempest. Add to that, that for gang pvp(not fleet sniping) a Tempest generally won't have many gyro's(if any) as it is armor tanking while a Maelstrom most likely shield tanks and rely on others to tackle and thus can carry much more gyro's.
Personally I think the Maelstrom is pretty decent as it is right now, there just is a lack of roles that it can do much better then any other ship. Right now it can tank insanely well with an active tank but besides that it doesn't really have anything else that another minmatar ship can't do just as well.
Changing the Rate of fire bonus to a damage bonus would imo promote the maelstrom to a good sniper with the biggest alpha currently possible for any battleship ingame, with of course a bit of an odd bonus for a sniper with a shield boost bonus, but isn't that a minmatar thing(to have odd bonuses sometimes  )
Crystal-Slave, that way?
Potential solution to the current Recon cloak and cyno bug |
MissileRus
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Posted - 2006.12.30 13:42:00 -
[57]
mealstrom: 1200mm damage mods, tank, 3 shield resist rigs. 1400mm would be to slow rof and bad tracking possibly gimping the uber tank maelstrom can have. some fit 1400mm and PDUs, i rather fit damage/tracking mods on all lows to max weapon damage then a great tank with 2 boost amps, 3invul, 3 resist rigs, and a large booster. this is just how i like it to be fitted and its uber below 100km.
1400mm belongs on the tempest, it cant tank, but it can hit to make up for it and its over 100km.
maelstrom in groups with tacklers, to act as damage support that can tank if targeted, this gives time for support to arrive or teams of the gang to do tactical stuff.. like warp in on a sniper while your tanking it with ease..
a tempest can get stuck and eaten appart, it can shoot back at snipers 100+km but it takes damage, it cant survive long for help to come, it cant tank just do damage, it cant be great support having to take care of itself to prevent destruction, better support is something that can tank aswell as deal damage. tempest is better for larger gangs where tanking has no meaning. fleets etc..
maelstrom:
mid range pwnerer
great for missions
great for smaller gangs
tanks like hell
does great damage
-
cant solo
tempest better for long range and fleet
tempest:
short and long range pwnerer
does great damage
speedy
cheap
tanks good enough with autos
-
cant tank fitting the biggest guns
fragile fitted with 1400mm
sound about right? imo we needed the mealstrom, its a great midrange ship that can tank like ****, i love it.
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4. i like pizza |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.12.30 14:57:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Ath Amon on 30/12/2006 14:58:12
the fact that tank is useless in fleets is a misconception
tank is extremely usefull, sure maybe is not going to save you but will take more time/guns to the enemy to kill you so it will benefit for the whole fleet...
about the dps/alpha the difference is quite big, to calculate guns imo is not a valid way to compare them
you need to do a graph and compare the cumulative damage... i made it and the ROF bonus is way more benefical than a dmg...
consider also that with +dmg the mael will have same dps as a rokh that outrange it by 40+ km and outtank it by a good margin.
for pve... sure the mael is better than the pest, but the phoon is better than both, to fit cruise if forced to have a dual rep (actually i use a standard 4 hards 1 lar for almost every mission) is not a problem at all as in missions cruise missiles are waaaaaaaaay better than siege (at least post t2 torp nerf)
i also agree that probably people don't like mael because they had an idea about it, but also consider that atm mael have a (small) niche role in pvp (and mostly a situational one) for pve again phoon is better in 90% of situations...
wile minnie, after kali, totally lack a good fleet BS and to say train for Rokh imo is not a "solution", for the time involved to train T2 hybrids and cause there are some people that chose to fly minnie ships and i don't see why they should be not "allowed" to partecipate in fleet battles cause of this choice.
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.12.30 15:37:00 -
[59]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 30/12/2006 15:39:48
Minmatar whine threads always make me laugh. Our corp has a large number of very skilled Minmatar pilots as do BoB and the old G (D2). They are some of the best, is it simpily because they're more skillful than everyone else? No, its because they know how to fit a Minmatar ship properly and capitalize on its strengths.
The Maelstrom was doomed before anyone even flew the bloody thing because it got whined about more than any other tier 3 BS. It's a fantastic ship, most of you just think it isn't because you read these bleedin forums.
Originally by: anonymous
If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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Zyrtan Keb'Lektar
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.12.30 15:54:00 -
[60]
Maelstrom with 3-4 nos, ACs and a heavy tank is a ***** to kill and great for small gangs.
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