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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.02 01:12:00 -
[91]
There is so much more to this than campers, any argument involving camping is just hollow. As an aexample, we were roaming through empire in war time with about 4 ships (vexor, curse, taranis, drake), and had just killed one goon we grabbed on a gate when we got word his buddy in a drake was jumping into us. He jumps, I get my ranis right on the gate and prime the scram. What happens? He blips out of local, a drake appears and I scramble it. We know we're racing the clock to kill him in under 30 seconds, hit his structure, and he's gone. That shouldn't happen, it has nothing to do with your mindless opinion about gate campers, this was a roaming gang without bubbles and it happened twice more that same day.
This does however present an interesting issue, emergency warps when jumping a fleet. Those are pretty important, jumping one large fleet into another almost always results in a large portion of the jumping fleet emergency warping (not to be confused with crashing, emergency warps happen when you jump and your client is inacitve but online, and you are warped to a random safespot where you then load without losing connection). A similar mechanic needs to exist for these situations, and entire fleet failing to e-warp when jumping would just clog up the petition queue.
One way or another it needs to stop, but can't, in my opinion, be the flat solution of 'well then you die, tough' isn't going to cut it because fleets will be decimated without firing a shot. I've genuinely lost connection once while jumping, and it actually turned out to be a windows error and had nothing to do with connection. Logged back in and killed what I came to kill. I'd be happy if it would just be petitionable, gotta quit *****-footing around the issue CCP, it's killing PVP. I've had people log on me solo, as well. Because it's so popular, we almost always have a prober in gang, but that doesnt help when people log before uncloaking at a gate.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.02 01:19:00 -
[92]
Well which group of people has greater numbers? The blobs that CTD on jump-in, or the carebears who log off at the first sign of trouble? My money is on the latter. Lesser of two evils then.
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.02 01:24:00 -
[93]
 Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Well which group of people has greater numbers? The blobs that CTD on jump-in, or the carebears who log off at the first sign of trouble? My money is on the latter. Lesser of two evils then.
An emergency warp is not CTD, and in no way resembles logging, and should remain in place in one form or another as the charaters DO NOT leave local while it's happening and are unaware it's even happening until they load at a safespot.
And it's not just carebears that log to avoid combat.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.02 01:25:00 -
[94]
Originally by: doctorstupid2
An emergency warp is not CTD, and in no way resembles logging, and should remain in place in one form or another as the charaters DO NOT leave local while it's happening and are unaware it's even happening until they load at a safespot.
If CCP can tell the difference, great. Just so long as they nerf the people who quit client.
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Treean
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Posted - 2007.01.02 01:50:00 -
[95]
Give us a probe, or the ability to scan the other side of the gate. Problem solved.
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Nathanial Victor
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Posted - 2007.01.02 01:54:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Treean
Give us a probe, or the ability to scan the other side of the gate. Problem solved.
Originally by: Nathanial Victor
Originally by: Fon Revedhort
Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 02/01/2007 00:45:34
Imho, there should be an option to scan the other system through the gate -> you log in in a clear system, it's ok, than warp to the gate and somehow you can figure out what is happening within the 20 km (or so) radius around the gate in the next system.
Campers in this scenario will have at least to leave few tackers on the position while the actual camping force is aligned on a safe spot -> So, the victim has a small chance to kill the freaking tacklers and get out if done quickly.
What do you think about it? 
no no no no no no no no no no no no
NO
you miss the point of low security space completely
its called 'risk vs reward'. if it was just 'reward' empire would be empty
repeating myself 4tl
'i dont want to fly in space where i might get blown up'-nancy boys
shut up wussy nancys or stay in empire. dont go making 0.0 as ghey as empire.
/me wanders away muttering about carebears and ppl that never heard of scouting in a frig before you move your 15 billion isk CNR ratting ship from fat belt to fat belt
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
The I-Win Button
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Posted - 2007.01.02 13:17:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
I am very far from "very upset", I'd barely classify as vexed. This is e-anger, and it isn't an emotion: it's a shift key.
Originally by: Chimu Quien
Typing in caps and swearing equals being "very upset." Why you are getting upset about something that is mere entertainment is beyond me.
Do you even read the posts you quote?
---
In third-party forums we trust
Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
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Maltitol
Gallente
Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2007.01.02 14:20:00 -
[98]
whether you ctrl-q, or ctrl-alt-del end task, whether its built into the game or not, its just as easy to exit the game no matter what. even power off your pc if ctrl-alt-del is disabled.
ending up in a bubble because you DONT have an alt, or in my case REFUSE TO PAY MORE for another account sucks.. but it is a part of the game.. i have learned to accept it. i generally wont ctrl-q myself, i try to fight it out, even though most bubbles are clearly outgunning me, and unless im fitted for pvp (50/50) its not worth it.. then you scramm me.. then ecm me, then web me.. so.. now im not moving, cant target anybody to have a fighting chance, cant warp away to an ss.... wtf do you do then? sit and watch teh fireworks.. now i say that;s a lil unfair for a player that doesnt really pvp in low sec.. but i personally have taken it as a part of the game... it sucks.. but i deal with it, esp the fact that i learned to not t2 fit a bs.. just in case.
however, simulating a connection lost wouldn't be exploiting the game mechanic now would it? even if you petition the offender, 'well i lost my connection, wtf do u want me to do?'. those are another hard thing that im sure the devs cant prevent.
:(
----------------------------------------
Originally by: Devil Hanzo
There is no problem with Jita, there is a problem with everybody going to Jita at the same time... 
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bigfatbird
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.02 14:25:00 -
[99]
Originally by: BurnHard
Alliances don't often lock down the gates into their space. They tend to go about their business and respond to specific threats.
Some alliances have the major entry points to their space bubbled 23/7.
Most alliances also run a NBSI policy and will shoot neutrals preemptive on sight before they ever become a "specific threat".
You really dont seem to be alot in 0.0.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2007.01.02 14:30:00 -
[100]
Just please leave NPC firing out of this. I more than once got disconnected due tyo client crashing under heavy load of a heavy mission.
Also there is the issue of huge lag when too much peopel is in there.
Example, gate camped by 40 guys. Youa re dead before your back to the control of your ship. So ship should appear to the campers only after server is SURE that the client is back into control.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2007.01.02 14:33:00 -
[101]
Almost forgot. Using an alt to scout the gate ahead is ALSO META GAMMING! Is as lame as logofsky!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
BurnHard
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Posted - 2007.01.02 14:39:00 -
[102]
Originally by: bigfatbird
Originally by: BurnHard
Alliances don't often lock down the gates into their space. They tend to go about their business and respond to specific threats.
Some alliances have the major entry points to their space bubbled 23/7.
Most alliances also run a NBSI policy and will shoot neutrals preemptive on sight before they ever become a "specific threat".
You really dont seem to be alot in 0.0.
No, I've only lived there for a few years so I obviously know nothing. NBSI means they are chased down when spotted inside enemy territory. That is the same as them being a specific threat, i.e. roaming around frightening the locals. I have never seen a 23/7 bubble-camped choke-point run by an alliance unless it's at a gateway between a rival or warring party, not at an empire junction for sure.
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Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2007.01.02 14:50:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Logoffs are a severe problem, but IMO, the single worst part of it is logging at gates. If you come under fire, you should NOT disappear. Every shot fired against you should reset the logoff timer to 15minutes.
No-one should EVER disappear while being fired at. Not ever.
Ok fine then...you changed the title but the wording is the same.
THEY DONT WANT TO PLAY WITH YOU! nuff said?
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2007.01.02 14:51:00 -
[104]
I dont log off, although tempted with gate campers tbh.
Lets be serious for a moment, gate camping requires no skill except to hit easy targets where possible.
Give the option to have a probe to scan a gate to give you a breakdown of whats on the other side. Then deal with log offs.
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2007.01.02 14:54:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Almost forgot. Using an alt to scout the gate ahead is ALSO META GAMMING! Is as lame as logofsky!
Not sure how that is lame, just kill the alt. It would be like me paying someone to go through the gate for me first. Should we ban that as well?
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BurnHard
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Posted - 2007.01.02 15:01:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Almost forgot. Using an alt to scout the gate ahead is ALSO META GAMMING! Is as lame as logofsky!
Also true, but the alt-scout is neccessary as the majority of players don't fly around on their day to day business with a small pocket gang of camp breakers handy to come and do their work at the touch of a button (so, realism check here for you). It's not symmetric. Breaking a camp requires that you take it over and camp there yourself or constantly play camping-patty-cake all day. Not everyones cup of tea. It's often not worth the trouble or expense (potentially expensive if you loose) to get your mates to come and break the camp so you can get your hauler through.
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.02 15:05:00 -
[107]
I've used the logoffski once pre pirate life (and I've always hated myself for it (I was probed and killed though lol))
I've use the logonski once post pirate and It was kinda low but
I really hate miners I can't blow up
Either way they both need hardcore nerfing action
Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
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Yantazar
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:15:00 -
[108]
Excuse my ignorance, but what exaclty is an "Alt Scout". If you load a second account and scout ahead with that, suicide shuttle for instance, is that an alt scout. I honestly do not know what you guys mean.
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Bastogne
Caldari
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:22:00 -
[109]
Make a skill and special slot 10 implant that allows you to query the gate for a scan of what is on the other side, but the skill requirements pretty steep and the implant expensive. For instance to query a gate in alliance space you would need the skills to fit the implant, which would be say cybernetics 4 or 5, astrometrics 4 or 5, lvl 4 of a social skill(can't remember the names of them all off the top of my head), perhaps one more lvl 4 or 5 skill, and you would need a standing of 7 or higher with the alliance or faction that had sovereignty over the system that the gate is in, and the system that the gate links to.
How about that? It's not an easy, anybody-can-do-it-with-no-effort method, but allows a method of scanning the other side of gates besides running two instances of Eve.
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Auman
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:23:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Auman on 02/01/2007 16:23:40
Quote:
Excuse my ignorance, but what exaclty is an "Alt Scout". If you load a second account and scout ahead with that, suicide shuttle for instance, is that an alt scout. I honestly do not know what you guys mean.
Yup that would be an alt scout and the people proclaiming it is the only method to avoid gate camps are leaving out a few other options.
At the end of the day if you are logging out when you are in trouble or using login traps then you are not very good at Eve.
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Yantazar
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:27:00 -
[111]
Wow, thanks for that explanation, and I am totally bemused... :) Sounds like a major effort and time sink. I think tbh if anyone did that, they should be allowed to do it, not exactly an easy exploit, if it is an exploit. In my case I think I will use another account to scout ahead, like a suicide shuttle. Just out of interest, can someone tell me the highest sec that you can be caught in a bubble. I take it that you cannot be "bubbled" in 0.5 and above ?
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Tachy
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:31:00 -
[112]
Bubbles can't be used in empire space.
Welcome to 0.0
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Yantazar
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:31:00 -
[113]
So Auman, by running a second account to look ahead ... you are saying that is an exploit/lame ? We, have 4 accounts, and 2 pc's next to each other. If I mine with my dad ... is that an expoit/lame ? If he logs a shuttle, and I follow in an Iteron5, is that an exploit/lame ? Or are you saying that if I myself run two accounts, then it is lame ? Confused, yes I am.
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Miss Mickey
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:42:00 -
[114]
Gate camps suck, lets face it. They do. Gate camps, are in my eyes, the I-Win button for PVP. I mean, when two fleets are on a path to each other, how often do you hear one tell the other, "No, you jump into us!". Why, because jumping into a camp puts you at a disadvantage from the start. You can't warp, you're probably lagging and mostly you're outnumbered.
The real problem is the lack of combat arenas. I don't mean a physical area, I just mean places where players meet up to fight within a given system. The only available places are objects that you can warp to. One of these is a jump gate. Since players enter the system at the jumpgate, the easiest way to "win" is to bubble the gate and camp it.
Why can't a ship spawn in the system in a random location within 0.5 AU of the gate? Then you can only bubble the jump-in part of the gate. This would allow players to at least be in the same system without having to jump into bubbles, just warp into them. So if a gate is bubbled, you can at least warp to the gate and engage the enemy without the drawbacks of the session change. It would also allow players to scan the gate before they jump and at least know what they are facing.
However, this would certainly reduce the chances of combat.
And I'm sure there are hundereds of arguments against this suggestion, but hey 
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:46:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Bastogne
Make a skill and special slot 10 implant
I would make it a fitting to be honest, mid slot and have a cycle time of 5-10 seconds.
As it would be more use to traders then people running from gank squads of war decs.
If your being attacked on one side of the gate and loosing, knowing whats on the other side probably isn't going to help much.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:48:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Yantazar
So Auman, by running a second account to look ahead ... you are saying that is an exploit/lame ? We, have 4 accounts, and 2 pc's next to each other. If I mine with my dad ... is that an expoit/lame ? If he logs a shuttle, and I follow in an Iteron5, is that an exploit/lame ? Or are you saying that if I myself run two accounts, then it is lame ? Confused, yes I am.
From the gate campers point of view it is as lame as logging out without being aggressed.
They're missing out on the loot and killboard entry. 
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
The I-Win Button
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:54:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: Yantazar
So Auman, by running a second account to look ahead ... you are saying that is an exploit/lame ? We, have 4 accounts, and 2 pc's next to each other. If I mine with my dad ... is that an expoit/lame ? If he logs a shuttle, and I follow in an Iteron5, is that an exploit/lame ? Or are you saying that if I myself run two accounts, then it is lame ? Confused, yes I am.
From the gate campers point of view it is as lame as logging out without being aggressed.
They're missing out on the loot and killboard entry.
It's my thread, and I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SCOUTING, ALT OR OTHERWISE.
Can we get off that freaking topic?
---
In third-party forums we trust
Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
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Auman
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.02 17:01:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Yantazar
So Auman, by running a second account to look ahead ... you are saying that is an exploit/lame ? We, have 4 accounts, and 2 pc's next to each other. If I mine with my dad ... is that an expoit/lame ? If he logs a shuttle, and I follow in an Iteron5, is that an exploit/lame ? Or are you saying that if I myself run two accounts, then it is lame ? Confused, yes I am.
No not all. My 2nd paragraph wasn't directed at you just blanket statement 
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Yantazar
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Posted - 2007.01.02 17:02:00 -
[119]
Oh my God, I am so sorry Veras, I simply heard the alt scout thing, and I was curious as to what it meant. I have derived that it is a method of avoiding gate camps, and I obviously am aware that logging off at a gate in a bubble is a method of surviving gate camps. So, again, I am so so sorry to upset you, I thought that as they were related, they possibly could be debated together. But then I did not expect YOU TO THROW YOUR TOYS OUT OF YOUR PRAM !!
Ahem, sorry, did I have a tantrum there (pours another large JD and ice) ... ahh thats better .... mmm chill.
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Isyel
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.02 17:19:00 -
[120]
I'm anti pirate and on a NRDS policy.
And i still think logging out when under fire is one of the lamest things ever 'invented'.  Right next to log in traps.
When in a bubble or scrambled you should NEVER be allowed to warp. Unless you have stabs to counter the scrambler that is. I don't care if you 'crashed' or anything, it should work that way, end of story. Warp on log out = normal warp. That's it. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Originally by: Wrangler
We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
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