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Matthew Dust Valklear Legionnaires 40	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:02:56 - [1] - Quote Would like to see some X-Large Shield Extenders, putting 2 Large on a battleship is stupid. I can put 2 Large on a Stabber easy. It's literally almost half the HP of a 1600mm plate. It won't break the game. I'm just saying a Large Shield Extender on a battleship is like putting a small shield extender on a stabber. #CCPSHIELDS
Valtem Akin Valklear Legionnaires 0	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:09:18 - [2] - Quote Sounds legit
Jebi Vjetar Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out. Ushra'Khan 0	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:11:50 - [3] - Quote Yes this is a good idea. We need them big shield extenders.
Iain Cariaba 1969	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:37:04 - [4] - Quote Matthew Dust wrote: Would like to see some X-Large Shield Extenders, putting 2 Large on a battleship is stupid. I can put 2 Large on a Stabber easy. It's literally almost half the HP of a 1600mm plate. Except a 1600mm plated ship doesn't have a passive armor regen based on its total shield HP, so you cannot really compare shield extenders to armor plates like that. Matthew Dust wrote: It won't break the game. I'm just saying a Large Shield Extender on a battleship is like putting a small shield extender on a stabber. Just because it allegedly won't break the game doesn't make it a good idea. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better. Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Matthew Dust Valklear Legionnaires 40	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:46:38 - [5] - Quote It's a great idea, passive regen is next to insignificant, not to mention all ships have passive regen to include armor ships. So what's the point of bringing up passive regen as some sort of worthwhile thing?
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 480	Posted - 2015.11.18 10:13:15 - [6] - Quote It might not break the game but it would significantly change it. Regen rates would have to be nerfed into the ground as another interesting distinction between armour and shield sails off into the deep blue... space. And the subsequent mooing to get XL Armour Reppers would give me a headache. Ships are balanced around existing modules, do you think they'll just shove something like this in and hope for the best or rebalance everything all over again for one module? Travelling at the speed of love.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2721	Posted - 2015.11.18 10:19:09 - [7] - Quote Also need 3200mm armor plate. Both of these need to be too big for a battlecruiser to reasonably fit. You know, big enough for a battleship to actually consider that much powergrid a sacrifice. Matthew Dust wrote: It won't break the game. I'm just saying a Large Shield Extender on a battleship is like putting a small shield extender on a stabber. More like putting a medium shield extender on a Stabber. But the point remains the same--I can put a medium shield extender on a Rifter just fine, and it's very nearly a waste of a slot on a Stabber. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 239	Posted - 2015.11.18 11:07:48 - [8] - Quote Matthew Dust wrote: Would like to see some X-Large Shield Extenders, putting 2 Large on a battleship is stupid. I can put 2 Large on a Stabber easy. It's literally almost half the HP of a 1600mm plate. It won't break the game. I'm just saying a Large Shield Extender on a battleship is like putting a small shield extender on a stabber. #CCPSHIELDS I'm sure the sig bloom those things would have on a BS would be horrendous not to mention the PWG/CPU requirements. I would rather have CCP buff all shield extenders sizes to fit favorably into their propose meant for ship class.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2721	Posted - 2015.11.18 11:52:53 - [9] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: I'm sure the sig bloom those things would have on a BS would be horrendous not to mention the PWG/CPU requirements. I would rather have CCP buff all shield extenders sizes to fit favorably into their propose meant for ship class. Large shield extenders ARE meant for cruisers. You get more hit points at the cost of powergrid and signature radius. It's a trade-off between offense and defense, and the sig radius bloom is just to prevent using them for nano exploits. You can fit a medium shield extender (frigate size) to your cruiser to get less shield hit points, but at a negligible cost to powergrid and sig radius. The medium on a cruiser primarily costs only the slot. Frigates can fit a medium as a trade-off, or a small if they can't spare fitting. Battleships don't get that choice. The only option for battleships is the weak one that costs barely any powergrid or sig radius (relatively speaking). Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Bobb Bobbington The Cult of the Rare Pepes 140	Posted - 2015.11.18 13:50:31 - [10] - Quote Guys, not everything is meant to be equal. Armor plates are designed to be more for buffer, and shields more for active tanking. That's why armor has an extra plate size, but shield boosters have an extra shield booster size. It'd be boring if everything was equal.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1322	Posted - 2015.11.18 14:07:42 - [11] - Quote Bobb Bobbington wrote: Guys, not everything is meant to be equal. Armor plates are designed to be more for buffer, and shields more for active tanking. That's why armor has an extra plate size, but shield boosters have an extra shield booster size. It'd be boring if everything was equal. Issue is, there are no dediated BS+ sized bufermods, you're just throwing multiple cruiser sized mods on there (500PG out of 21k...) XL shield boosters compare to large armor reps btw.
Bobb Bobbington The Cult of the Rare Pepes 141	Posted - 2015.11.18 15:49:50 - [12] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Bobb Bobbington wrote: Guys, not everything is meant to be equal. Armor plates are designed to be more for buffer, and shields more for active tanking. That's why armor has an extra plate size, but shield boosters have an extra shield booster size. It'd be boring if everything was equal. Issue is, there are no dediated BS+ sized bufermods, you're just throwing multiple cruiser sized mods on there (500PG out of 21k...) XL shield boosters compare to large armor reps btw. Lol, XL shield boosters in no way compare to large armor reps. Just because they fit the same doesn't mean they are the same. A large armor repairer does 920 hp every 15 seconds with base skills (61.3/second), whereas an XL shield booster does 690 every 5 seconds (138/second). All taken with base stats from evelopedia. So, an XL shield repper does 2.25x the hp/second than a large armor repper, while a 1600mm plate (4800 hp) does 1.83x more than a large shield extender (2625). A little uneven, but as it is they seem pretty balanced to me. Personally, I don't see a need for battleship sized plates. Battleships do need a pass, but people are already complaining about logi OP, and bigger plates would only increase the problem due to more alpha needed to kill them before reps land. You'd also have to go through and balance a ton of other stuff while you're at it.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 279	Posted - 2015.11.18 16:05:36 - [13] - Quote Bobb Bobbington wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: Bobb Bobbington wrote: Guys, not everything is meant to be equal. Armor plates are designed to be more for buffer, and shields more for active tanking. That's why armor has an extra plate size, but shield boosters have an extra shield booster size. It'd be boring if everything was equal. Issue is, there are no dediated BS+ sized bufermods, you're just throwing multiple cruiser sized mods on there (500PG out of 21k...) XL shield boosters compare to large armor reps btw. Lol, XL shield boosters in no way compare to large armor reps. Just because they fit the same doesn't mean they are the same. A large armor repairer does 920 hp every 15 seconds with base skills (61.3/second), whereas an XL shield booster does 690 every 5 seconds (138/second). All taken with base stats from evelopedia. So, an XL shield repper does 2.25x the hp/second than a large armor repper, while a 1600mm plate (4800 hp) does 1.83x more than a large shield extender (2625). A little uneven, but as it is they seem pretty balanced to me. Personally, I don't see a need for battleship sized plates. Battleships do need a pass, but people are already complaining about logi OP, and bigger plates would only increase the problem due to more alpha needed to kill them before reps land. You'd also have to go through and balance a ton of other stuff while you're at it. Agreed the entire way. Also worth noting: shield reps get the advantage of an optional shield amp mod so your reps get even better. Costs a midslot, yes, but it's something you can't quite duplicate with armor. Again with the differences between armor and shield, with shield you get a relatively easy-to-fit mod that dramatically increases your active tank. You can equip and de-equip it at will because it's a mod. Rigs allow you to decrease the capacitor used when repping, or rep faster. Armor gets no module to equip or de-equip at will to enhance repping. However, this ability is available in a rig, which means you are stuck with that until you destroy the rig for something else. That's a more permanent investment than a simple module. Armor also gets access to a rig that lets you rep faster. And when it comes to ancillaries, shield gets outright capless repping that still works with the shield rep amp, which falls in line with the rig that decreases cap use (as a theme). Armor gets a boost to rep amount but still uses the same cap as a normal repper, keeping in line with it's rig that allows for more potent reps (as a theme). These differences are what makes EvE interesting. It's a good, nuanced system and I don't want that system unbalanced by huge shield buffer mods, as that's armor's territory. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2722	Posted - 2015.11.18 20:25:32 - [14] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Agreed the entire way. Also worth noting: shield reps get the advantage of an optional shield amp mod so your reps get even better. Costs a midslot, yes, but it's something you can't quite duplicate with armor. Shield boost amplifiers are not nearly as useful as people seem to think. When you consider it's using a slot and CPU that could be spent on a hardener, a lot of times it only barely comes out on top in terms of net shield boost amount while not assisting your EHP at all. It's certainly no huge boon to active tanking and sometimes has little use beyond saving capacitor. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
To mare Advanced Technology 426	Posted - 2015.11.18 21:01:37 - [15] - Quote yes the day when we get an x-large armor repairer
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 347	Posted - 2015.11.18 22:03:24 - [16] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Also need 3200mm armor plate. Both of these need to be too big for a battlecruiser to reasonably fit. You know, big enough for a battleship to actually consider that much powergrid a sacrifice. Matthew Dust wrote: It won't break the game. I'm just saying a Large Shield Extender on a battleship is like putting a small shield extender on a stabber. More like putting a medium shield extender on a Stabber. But the point remains the same--I can put a medium shield extender on a Rifter just fine, and it's very nearly a waste of a slot on a Stabber. Armor battleships would need their grid tweaked in that case, because most fitted battleships are tight on grid even with plates only needing 500ish grid.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1741	Posted - 2015.11.18 23:20:45 - [17] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Agreed the entire way. Also worth noting: shield reps get the advantage of an optional shield amp mod so your reps get even better. Costs a midslot, yes, but it's something you can't quite duplicate with armor. Shield boost amplifiers are not nearly as useful as people seem to think. When you consider it's using a slot and CPU that could be spent on a hardener, a lot of times it only barely comes out on top in terms of net shield boost amount while not assisting your EHP at all. It's certainly no huge boon to active tanking and sometimes has little use beyond saving capacitor. Consider that the only armor alternative is a 2nd rep aside from rigs, costing a low slot, PG and CPU, with a considerably higher comparative cap investment.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2722	Posted - 2015.11.18 23:26:01 - [18] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Armor battleships would need their grid tweaked in that case, because most fitted battleships are tight on grid even with plates only needing 500ish grid. They're only tight with top-end weapons. Try fitting some Dual Heavies and you'll free up thousands of megawatts. Then you can fit that huge plate, but it comes at a cost. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Ellendras Silver CrashCat Corporation 218	Posted - 2015.11.19 00:17:30 - [19] - Quote Matthew Dust wrote: It's a great idea, passive regen is next to insignificant, not to mention all ships have passive regen to include armor ships. So what's the point of bringing up passive regen as some sort of worthwhile thing? because shield tanked ships have much higher resistances on top of an larger HP + the regen that comes with it, CAN simply make SOME ships too powerful [u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2722	Posted - 2015.11.19 00:26:53 - [20] - Quote Ellendras Silver wrote: because shield tanked ships have much higher resistances That is patently false. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 244	Posted - 2015.11.19 01:07:58 - [21] - Quote ccp will troll you all and the xl extender will be the one for capitals. until then just make due with your capless asb required brining up of difference in implants between shield and armor (shield get stronger reps, armor better buffer)
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 281	Posted - 2015.11.19 02:53:57 - [22] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Shield boost amplifiers are not nearly as useful as people seem to think. When you consider it's using a slot and CPU that could be spent on a hardener, a lot of times it only barely comes out on top in terms of net shield boost amount while not assisting your EHP at all. It's certainly no huge boon to active tanking and sometimes has little use beyond saving capacitor. But they do have a use. I don't shield tank much myself, so I'm no expert, but I'd imagine there's a point where you've already fitted your primary shield hardeners, and any more would be hit by diminishing returns. Then there's a case to be made for the amp. When active tank, your buffer need only last long enough for your rep to cycle. Shields rep at the beginning of the cycle, so no problem there. And shield reppers cycle much faster than armor, so there's that. I don't claim they are a universal "must-have" mod, but they do provide options and have a use that isn't mimicked by armor. Even if all they do is save capacitor, that still goes to the theme with their ancillaries and rigs. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2725	Posted - 2015.11.19 04:01:37 - [23] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: But they do have a use. They definitely have a use. A good example is on a Rattlesnake with a really strong shield tank. You have so many slots you can use for hardeners that your diminishing returns start to get in the way, and you can get significantly more EHP/s with the boost amplifier than without. But I see people using them poorly pretty often--fits with 1-2 hardeners and a boost amplifier are just bad. I will agree that armor doesn't always have the most favorable options for tanking, either active or passive. I can usually get more buffer tank with armor but it's a pretty small difference. The main balance between shields vs armor is that shields repair faster at the cost of lower capacitor efficiency. When you take logi into the mix, the difference is almost as negligible as the difference in buffer hit points. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
bunzing heet Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 11	Posted - 2015.11.19 04:06:04 - [24] - Quote +1 for xl shield extenders me thinks would be GREAT!! Fly safe keep killing And remember I'm watching you !!!!
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 281	Posted - 2015.11.19 13:06:52 - [25] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: But they do have a use. They definitely have a use. A good example is on a Rattlesnake with a really strong shield tank. You have so many slots you can use for hardeners that your diminishing returns start to get in the way, and you can get significantly more EHP/s with the boost amplifier than without. But I see people using them poorly pretty often--fits with 1-2 hardeners and a boost amplifier are just bad. I will agree that armor doesn't always have the most favorable options for tanking, either active or passive. I can usually get more buffer tank with armor but it's a pretty small difference. The main balance between shields vs armor is that shields repair faster at the cost of lower capacitor efficiency. When you take logi into the mix, the difference is almost as negligible as the difference in buffer hit points. Very true. Also, shield tanking benefits by something else that armor is inhibited by. You can put power grid mods in the lows to increase fitting for tank (couple of niche setups I use, are guilty of this). So ironically, some armor ships get better shield tank through that method. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Thron Legacy White Zulu Scorpion Federation 27	Posted - 2015.11.19 18:47:21 - [26] - Quote When will people realize Shield is best for active and Armor best for buffer tank
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 19	Posted - 2015.11.19 19:40:20 - [27] - Quote XL-shield extenders for all ships - against it. I am usially flying ships with huge shield buffer (30k+(plus is top secret)). and the ability to make a 100k pure shield tank is ... makes me high!!!
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1325	Posted - 2015.11.19 19:49:41 - [28] - Quote Bobb Bobbington wrote: Lol, XL shield boosters in no way compare to large armor reps. Just because they fit the same doesn't mean they are the same. A large armor repairer does 920 hp every 15 seconds with base skills (61.3/second), whereas an XL shield booster does 690 every 5 seconds (138/second). All taken with base stats from evelopedia. So, an XL shield repper does 2.25x the hp/second than a large armor repper, while a 1600mm plate (4800 hp) does 1.83x more than a large shield extender (2625). A little uneven, but as it is they seem pretty balanced to me. If you fit both to an otherwise unfitted T1 hull, you'll have roughly 120 ehp/s for 35GJ/s with an LAR II and 190ehp/s for 72GJ/s on a T2 XL-SB. That's a 55% difference. Having your tank located in the lows or mids does make a huge difference, seeing that local tanks make most sense in very small engagements unless we're talking caps, where shieldtanked triage archons are outperforming armortanked ones. While it's easy to use up all lowslots for tank, relying on base damage+drones, doing so on a shieldship robs you all those mids you'd need for tackle and cap booster. As far as practical fits go, they're fairly even. The massive CPU-reqs for XL-boosters tend to get in the way about as often as the PG requirements for dualrep fits. Going to BS, you find mids used with things like MJD, point, sometimes web, 1-2 cap boosters + tank, leaving even a ship like a Mael with invuln+XL-booster unless going for ASB which don't profit off links you should use for classic shieldboosting. Looking at a hyperion, you get LAR+LAAR or 2LAR, 2 eanms, RAH, DCU and a magstab, but full tackle with one or two CBs next to a prop. Before links or pills, that's a 1100dps mael with 630ehp/s tanked, or a 980dps hyperion with 1150ehp/s tanked, both using shortrange faction ammo and web+scram. Anyways, XL-SB fits and 1/2 LAR fits tend to be well comparable. If you got free space for a SBA next to hardeners, we're most likely not talking pvp fits. Tackle, CBs and prop going into midslots just don't allow for shieldtanks to significantly outperform armorfits on subcaps.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2726	Posted - 2015.11.19 22:24:50 - [29] - Quote Thron Legacy wrote: When will people realize Shield is best for active and Armor best for buffer tank It'd be nice if armor actually had more buffer. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 909	Posted - 2015.11.19 23:56:16 - [30] - Quote I don't think that battleships need more buffer but I would agree that the small shield booster needs some love-making to it. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2729	Posted - 2015.11.20 03:18:47 - [31] - Quote elitatwo wrote: I don't think that battleships need more buffer but I would agree that the small shield booster needs some love-making to it. Small shield boosters are fine. If you want to do awesome shield boosting on a frigate, you need a medium shield booster. Doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense but that's the way it is. The small is available if you can't fit a medium. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Luscius Uta 182	Posted - 2015.11.20 10:42:49 - [32] - Quote Supporting this idea, because HP bonus from Large Shield Boosters is too small too make them really effective on Battleships, and almost nobody uses passive Rattlesnakes anymore. X-Large Shield Boosters should use around 100 CPU and 500 PG, while having double the HP bonus of Large ones, and T2 version should require Shield Upgrades V. About the need for X-Large Armor repairers, that's what current Large ones really are. A new set of repairers designed for Battlecruisers who are somewhere between Mediums and Larges and use around 500 PG could be introduced however. Drifters have arrived - The End is nigh!
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 909	Posted - 2015.11.20 17:42:49 - [33] - Quote Luscius Uta wrote: Supporting this idea, because HP bonus from Large Shield Boosters is too small too make them really effective on Battleships, and almost nobody uses passive Rattlesnakes anymore. X-Large Shield Boosters should use around 100 CPU and 500 PG, while having double the HP bonus of Large ones, and T2 version should require Shield Upgrades V. About the need for X-Large Armor repairers, that's what current Large ones really are. A new set of repairers designed for Battlecruisers who are somewhere between Mediums and Larges and use around 500 PG could be introduced however. Large shield boosters are for cruisers like the Moa and Eagle. The XL ones are for battleships and they rep more than twice the amount of large ones. Battlecruisers usually have enough fitting space to fit two armor reps, sounds fine to me. Reaver, small shield boosters do not give enough hp per cycle to be worthwile and medium shield boosters were designed to fit on destroyers not frigates. Back in the day we didn't have gun-grouping and small shield boosters were fine but the day gun-grouping was introduced you had one super-gun on any boat. The result was that the small shield booster became too small to be of any use. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2731	Posted - 2015.11.20 18:10:56 - [34] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Reaver, small shield boosters do not give enough hp per cycle to be worthwile and medium shield boosters were designed to fit on destroyers not frigates. Back in the day we didn't have gun-grouping and small shield boosters were fine but the day gun-grouping was introduced you had one super-gun on any boat. The result was that the small shield booster became too small to be of any use. Right, like gun-grouping changes a ship's DPS. A T2-fit Merlin with no implants, boosters, or fleet boosts can rep 75 EHP/s cap stable with 1 remaining mid (for prop mod?), 1 remaining low, and anything you want in the highs. It's short on CPU but can function that way. Small shield boosters are a bit small for comfort, and mediums are a bit large for comfort, but the small is just as efficient as any other and it fits well for making a cap stable shield boosting frigate. Maybe frigates need more capacitor regen. Maybe the small shield booster should be a slightly larger size. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 909	Posted - 2015.11.21 11:04:19 - [35] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: elitatwo wrote: Reaver, small shield boosters do not give enough hp per cycle to be worthwile and medium shield boosters were designed to fit on destroyers not frigates. Back in the day we didn't have gun-grouping and small shield boosters were fine but the day gun-grouping was introduced you had one super-gun on any boat. The result was that the small shield booster became too small to be of any use. Right, like gun-grouping changes a ship's DPS... No but server ticks. I know this is very difficult to comprehend but it went like this: gun 1: fire server tick shield boost gun fire 2: server tick shield boost gun fire 3: server tick shield boost Now it goes: super-gun fire: Merlin in armor server tick shield boost Merlin goes poof. See the differnce now? Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2732	Posted - 2015.11.21 11:12:00 - [36] - Quote elitatwo wrote: No but server ticks. I know this is very difficult to comprehend but it went like this: gun 1: fire server tick shield boost gun fire 2: server tick shield boost gun fire 3: server tick shield boost Now it goes: super-gun fire: Merlin in armor server tick shield boost Merlin goes poof. See the differnce now? Are you telling me that the weapons could not be activated between server ticks, and that it took eight server ticks to activate all the weapons? I thought people just linked the weapons to function keys and hit all eight in the same server tick. I was always too lazy to use hotkeys but can click four per server tick, so it's not that slow with ungrouped weapons. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Tiddle Jr Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 649	Posted - 2015.11.21 13:52:01 - [37] - Quote What would be the sig drawback? Mwd+couple of XL SE and your sig would be ... No not that big as i thought at the first place.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2732	Posted - 2015.11.21 14:55:06 - [38] - Quote Tiddle Jr wrote: What would be the sig drawback? If we follow the current trend, we'd get something like this: X-Large Shield Extender I Volume: 40 m3 Powergrid: 720 MW CPU: 56 Tf Shield: 4500 Signature Radius: +85 m But that's clearly way too little powergrid, and if you study the HP increase over base by a percentage, might be a bit weak as well. So let's fix the Large, then we can fix the X-Large: Large Shield Extender I Volume: 40 m3 Powergrid: 280 MW(up from 150) CPU: 40 Tf Shield: 2400(up from 1900) Signature Radius: +25 m X-Large Shield Extender I Volume: 40 m3 Powergrid: 2800 MW CPU: 56 Tf Shield: 7200 Signature Radius: +85 m Now the Large Shield Extender is a proper cruiser extender, even fit for battlecruisers. Before, it was more of an industrial size module, a bit small for even a Stabber. The X-Large follows suit, being something far too large for cruisers and you could barely squeeze it onto a battlecruiser but it would give you a massive tank bonus if you did. It'll be quite adequate for battleships, and carry a trade-off with that high powergrid cost. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Feyrin Star Frontiers Brotherhood of Spacers 58	Posted - 2015.11.21 19:25:47 - [39] - Quote Hate to be the bearer of bad news on this enthusiastic thread but... http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/reworking-capital-ships-and-thus-it-begins/ New Capital Modules All existing capital sized modules will be getting a full set of Meta, Tech 2, and Faction variants. Yes, this includes Tech 2 guns (and the skills for them). We're also introducing a bunch of new modules - All existing XL guns and XL launchers New: High Angle Weapon Batteries Remote armor repairers Remote shield transporters Remote energy transporters Remote hull repairers Local armor repairers Local shield boosters New: Local hull repairers New: Capital Armor Plates New: Capital Shield Extenders New: Capital Microwarpdrives New: Capital Energy Warfare Modules New: Capital Cap Boosters and Charges New: Capital Capacitor Batteries New: Capital Warp Disruptors & Scramblers
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1330	Posted - 2015.11.21 21:19:07 - [40] - Quote Feyrin wrote: Hate to be the bearer of bad news on this enthusiastic thread but... http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/reworking-capital-ships-and-thus-it-begins/ New Capital Modules All existing capital sized modules will be getting a full set of Meta, Tech 2, and Faction variants. Yes, this includes Tech 2 guns (and the skills for them). We're also introducing a bunch of new modules - All existing XL guns and XL launchers New: High Angle Weapon Batteries Remote armor repairers Remote shield transporters Remote energy transporters Remote hull repairers Local armor repairers Local shield boosters New: Local hull repairers New: Capital Armor Plates New: Capital Shield Extenders New: Capital Microwarpdrives New: Capital Energy Warfare Modules New: Capital Cap Boosters and Charges New: Capital Capacitor Batteries New: Capital Warp Disruptors & Scramblers That's capital stuff... and doesn't have much to do with the build diversity on BS.
unidenify Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 156	Posted - 2015.11.21 23:04:48 - [41] - Quote Feyrin wrote: Hate to be the bearer of bad news on this enthusiastic thread but... http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/reworking-capital-ships-and-thus-it-begins/ New Capital Modules All existing capital sized modules will be getting a full set of Meta, Tech 2, and Faction variants. Yes, this includes Tech 2 guns (and the skills for them). We're also introducing a bunch of new modules - All existing XL guns and XL launchers New: High Angle Weapon Batteries Remote armor repairers Remote shield transporters Remote energy transporters Remote hull repairers Local armor repairers Local shield boosters New: Local hull repairers New: Capital Armor Plates New: Capital Shield Extenders New: Capital Microwarpdrives New: Capital Energy Warfare Modules New: Capital Cap Boosters and Charges New: Capital Capacitor Batteries New: Capital Warp Disruptors & Scramblers we don't know what is their PG/CPU cost. For this reason, we won't know if we can fit them on BS or not. honest, my concern is that if they bring XL shield extender, it is possible that shield BS get nerf in shield hp.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2732	Posted - 2015.11.21 23:32:04 - [42] - Quote unidenify wrote: we don't know what is their PG/CPU cost. For this reason, we won't know if we can fit them on BS or not. I think we can feel pretty confident that they won't fit on a battleship. If they did, they couldn't offer capital-level hit point bonuses. unidenify wrote: honest, my concern is that if they bring XL shield extender, it is possible that shield BS get nerf in shield hp. This isn't likely either because battleships don't have much of a hit point margin over combat battlecruisers. Capital ships have a tremendous hit point margin over battleships and while that is intentional, CCP is simply altering the meta by requiring that they get max hit points as a trade-off for other things. Capitals without these extenders will still have far more hit points than any battleship. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
unidenify Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 158	Posted - 2015.11.22 01:25:00 - [43] - Quote Reaver, issue with XL shield extender if we release them without nerf, one that benefit most would be one that have good base for passive shield tank, as Scorpion Navy Issue, and Rattlesnake. as they will get much better passive tank with it.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2733	Posted - 2015.11.22 02:51:31 - [44] - Quote unidenify wrote: Reaver, issue with XL shield extender if we release them without nerf, one that benefit most would be one that have good base for passive shield tank, as Scorpion Navy Issue, and Rattlesnake. as they will get much better passive tank with it. What's wrong with that? Drakes can get a really strong passive tank with large shield extenders. Rattlesnakes can't get a passive regen tank as strong as they can get a cap stable shield booster tank, and passive tank comes with much heftier penalties. Passive tanks are underpowered on battleships and need a buff. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
unidenify Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 158	Posted - 2015.11.22 04:47:00 - [45] - Quote I don't find it wrong if we see more passive tank shield BS. just that it is good chance that CCP will nerf shield BS to rebalance on new XL extender
Luscius Uta 184	Posted - 2015.11.22 12:50:03 - [46] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Luscius Uta wrote: Supporting this idea, because HP bonus from Large Shield Boosters is too small too make them really effective on Battleships, and almost nobody uses passive Rattlesnakes anymore. X-Large Shield Boosters should use around 100 CPU and 500 PG, while having double the HP bonus of Large ones, and T2 version should require Shield Upgrades V. About the need for X-Large Armor repairers, that's what current Large ones really are. A new set of repairers designed for Battlecruisers who are somewhere between Mediums and Larges and use around 500 PG could be introduced however. Large shield boosters are for cruisers like the Moa and Eagle. The XL ones are for battleships and they rep more than twice the amount of large ones. Battlecruisers usually have enough fitting space to fit two armor reps, sounds fine to me. Reaver, small shield boosters do not give enough hp per cycle to be worthwile and medium shield boosters were designed to fit on destroyers not frigates. Back in the day we didn't have gun-grouping and small shield boosters were fine but the day gun-grouping was introduced you had one super-gun on any boat. The result was that the small shield booster became too small to be of any use. I was thinking about shield extenders in my first paragraph and didn't notice my epic mistake until I read your answer, which happened just now. Passive shield tanking still works great on Drakes but not so much on Battleships (a bit of EFT warrioring showed up that Barghest beats Rattlesnake in that regard, unless you cripple Rattlesnake's DPS by putting 3 or more SPRs. Also, a deadpace medium shield booster is still extremely effective on a Tengu. Drifters have arrived - The End is nigh!
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2735	Posted - 2015.11.22 19:02:33 - [47] - Quote Luscius Uta wrote: Passive shield tanking still works great on Drakes but not so much on Battleships (a bit of EFT warrioring showed up that Barghest beats Rattlesnake in that regard, unless you cripple Rattlesnake's DPS by putting 3 or more SPRs. Passive shield regen tanks don't get good until you have a lot of modules dedicated to that tank. It's really unbalanced because you get tiny bonuses but there's no stacking penalty. That means very often the last module you put on can make the difference between a weak tank and a very strong one. That being said, it's still too weak. Case in point, two Rattlesnake fits I tried: [Rattlesnake, Active Regen] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Damage Control II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Pith X-Type Explosive Deflection Field Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Shield Boost Amplifier II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Large Micro Jump Drive Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I [Rattlesnake, Passive Regen] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Pith X-Type Explosive Deflection Field Shield Recharger II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 75 Large Micro Jump Drive Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Heavy Missile Drone Link Augmentor II Large Core Defense Field Purger I Large Core Defense Field Purger I Large Core Defense Field Purger I The numbers: both are using an Angel Cartel-approximate damage profile: 1 EM \| 2 Thermal \| 5 Kinetic \| 12 Explosive my skills Active regen Total effective hit points: 150,139 Effective shield hit points: 102,732 Shield resistances: 62% \| 69.6% \| 77.2% \| 91.9% Defense: 2162 Capacitor loss: -103.4 Capacitor gain: +103.7 Capacitor stability: stable at 32% Passive regen Total effective hit points: 134,511 Effective shield hit points: 108,221 Shield resistances: 56.5% \| 65.2% \| 73.9% \| 90.7% Defense: 1721 Capacitor loss: -8.1 Capacitor gain: +9.3 Capacitor stability: stable at 68% They both have similar hit points but the Active regen fit has way better defense. Now you might notice that the active regen ship has an X-type shield booster. Yes, the passive regen Rattlesnake's fit is a bit cheaper, but the Pith X-type X-Large Shield Booster is a very cheap module for its value, cheaper than some faction modules. I was unable to find any such deals that would improve the passive regen fit's tank. Not only does the active regen get a lot more defense, but it also has a rig slot and a medium slot dedicated to its offense. On top of that, the passive regen fit is strangled by its poor capacitor regen and needs a capacitor booster to stay afloat for any extended period of time, while the active regen fit has such rapid capacitor regen it can merely turn off its shield booster 15% of the time to power virtually anything else. Were the deadspace shield boosters more expensive, I'd still rather fly the active tank with a T2 booster (1347 defense), it's lower defense per second but not by a huge margin and it comes with better damage application and capacitor. In fact the T2 shield booster costs less capacitor, so I could take off a capacitor rig or perhaps a flux coil and get something else for damage application. I won't be using a passive Rattlesnake at the very least until I can fit a battleship-sized shield extender to it. At that point I might do it just to show off some nice defense numbers but I'll probably just stick with the shield booster fit. It's both easier to fly and far more scale-able. Here I showed you the passive tank at its best. Were I to devote five fewer slots to tank on both ships, the passive tank ship would suffer FAR more to the point of not even having a viable tank, while the active tank ship would still tank level 4 missions with ease. ====================================== I just have to ask: What is a 'uta' and why is it luscious? Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Luscius Uta 185	Posted - 2015.11.22 20:38:58 - [48] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: I just have to ask: What is a 'uta' and why is it luscious? Luscius is just a misspell for Lucius. Uta is a generic last name that EVE offered to me. Drifters have arrived - The End is nigh!
Matthew Dust Valklear Legionnaires Minmatar Republic Marines 46	Posted - 2015.11.30 22:48:44 - [49] - Quote just throwing this out there fw shield extenders only offer a minute 250 hp more, where as faction amarr plates offer about 500 HP more
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2743	Posted - 2015.12.01 02:34:23 - [50] - Quote Matthew Dust wrote: just throwing this out there fw shield extenders only offer a minute 250 hp more, where as faction amarr plates offer about 500 HP more Faction shield extender offers 5.769% more HP than T2 (+150), faction armor plate offers 9.375% more HP than T2 (+450). Armor plates actually give three times the amount bonus over T2 that shield extenders give, but when you measure it as a percentage, it is closer. I do believe the Thukker Large Shield Extender is due for a buff, however. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 787	Posted - 2015.12.01 04:41:24 - [51] - Quote Wow, lots of biased fact presenting going on, very interesting. Okay, none of us will argue that shield and armor should be the same. That is silly. So lets get down to nuts and bolts to compare first. Unfortunately, I am away from the computer, so I do not have the numbers handy. Will speak from personal experiences. If I make errors, please take that fact into account and understand that I actually like to be proven wrong and/or given more info. Will grab from eve wiki when I can, by default, I will refer to T2 Large Shield extender vs 1600mm armor plates Large shield extender II: powergrid usage -165 MW CPU usage - 46 tf Shield HP bonus - 2,625 HP Signature radius bonus - 25 m Resulting detriment: Higher damage hits. On smaller hulls, such as a LSE cruiser, this can be significant. Lower fitting however. Easy on PG making for easier fitting of high damage weapons and prop mods. Moreso on smaller hulls 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II powergrid usage - 575 MW CPU usage - 33 tf Armor Hp Bonus - 4800 HP Mass Addition - 3,750,000 kg Uses less CPU, but more powergrid per hitpoint bonus. Half as many hitpoints per powergrid. This can make fitting high power and prop mods more difficult. Grain of salt here as ships tend to have powergrids and cpu similar to what they are fitting. Penalty is you are slower, making kiting style play with passive armor more difficult, as well as easier to track. So from this point, I am agreeing with the OP. It does seem like there is something missing from the passive tank side for shields. But differentiation is important. Shields are much more powerful on the active side, as mentioned earlier with the extra large shield booster. But not all is so nice. To get high resists, vital to passive tanks and to helping maintain logi transferred hp, you tend to need to use active hardeners. If you full passive, it tends to take up more slots and rigging. This makes you vulnerable to having your tank capped out. Armor on the other hand, is most powerful when 100% passive. Hardeners at best for just taking up large holes if you want. The active boost is less powerful and needs to essentially be double repper to match a shield. So now things are becoming quite divergent. Armor, being low slot means fewer damage mods, but it can be pure passive, making the only way to break it with guns. In addition, it leaves all mids open for more capacitor and electronics and warfare modules including tackle. Result? An inpenetrable tank that can be effective. See damnations.... Shields? Well if you heavy shield, you are not on a limited pick and choose for your low slots. If you want tackle and prop in your shield mids, well now you are picking and choosing. Though your lows are open enough for high damage. Having an X-Large booster now opens up new passive fittings. A lot more tank along with gank. The old drake for example. High damage AND high defence. Even now, is a reason why certain shield ships are favorable. Combining speed, missiles and shields means you have a good defence, high damage and effective application. Give an xlarge booster and this will become even more apparent. Toss in a boost amp and suddenly a ship can pulse three quick shield pulses and be full hp. The big issue is the limited nature of active reppers in a battle. Once out of small gang, there is just no use for it. Alpha is king. That is a different matter however. If squad vs squad combat became more normalized, then active boosters might have a higher place in pvp. The same goes for passive regen shields as well. They can be reasonable without a full gimped fit outside of alpha style pvp. I just do not have numbers for what I would consider a reasonable passive regen. Overall, there is a whole lot of variables to consider, but the numbers are only a part of the truth. We need to look at the whole package. Are their other advantages/disadvantages that are not being considered? The one bit to all of this that does have me scratching my head is the armor layering. Not much in the fits where that will be a better choice over more resist or just a plate. A 15% boost for a low slot vs any of the plates really? I guess it is a potential on a capital is about it... Edit: As for the capital stuff, I guess it will come down to whether they can even come close to fitting on a cap. The fitting difference between battleship and capital is pretty extreme. To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 927	Posted - 2015.12.01 08:48:48 - [52] - Quote Sorry you two for knocking but shields regenerate and plates do not, carry on. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2743	Posted - 2015.12.01 09:35:41 - [53] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Sorry you two for knocking but shields regenerate and plates do not, carry on. They should still have the same percentage increase over the T2. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Valacus Streets of Fire 61	Posted - 2015.12.01 15:42:17 - [54] - Quote Makes sense to me. Battleships in general aren't all that common, but shield battleships are definitely the ones seen the least. It's way easier to get a fat armor tank on a battleship than a shield tank. Small shield extenders don't get used period, and large on used on the second smallest ship size. It makes no sense that there isn't a larger shield extender for battleships. You can easily get two 1600 plates on any armor battleship, and they're worth twice as much. "Oh, but shield regen!" Which contributes nothing to your buffer. Either you get reps or you explode. No tiny shield regen is going to save you, or even make you last another second. Shield regen has only ever mattered in PvE and that's the only place it ever will matter.
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 250	Posted - 2015.12.01 17:30:38 - [55] - Quote Valacus wrote: Makes sense to me. Battleships in general aren't all that common, but shield battleships are definitely the ones seen the least. It's way easier to get a fat armor tank on a battleship than a shield tank. Small shield extenders don't get used period, and large on used on the second smallest ship size. It makes no sense that there isn't a larger shield extender for battleships. You can easily get two 1600 plates on any armor battleship, and they're worth twice as much. "Oh, but shield regen!" Which contributes nothing to your buffer. Either you get reps or you explode. No tiny shield regen is going to save you, or even make you last another second. Shield regen has only ever mattered in PvE and that's the only place it ever will matter. that only applies to large scale. shield regen can be used and makes a difference in smaller scale engagements. Also ASB.
Valacus Streets of Fire 63	Posted - 2015.12.01 20:03:27 - [56] - Quote Lady Rift wrote: Valacus wrote: Makes sense to me. Battleships in general aren't all that common, but shield battleships are definitely the ones seen the least. It's way easier to get a fat armor tank on a battleship than a shield tank. Small shield extenders don't get used period, and large on used on the second smallest ship size. It makes no sense that there isn't a larger shield extender for battleships. You can easily get two 1600 plates on any armor battleship, and they're worth twice as much. "Oh, but shield regen!" Which contributes nothing to your buffer. Either you get reps or you explode. No tiny shield regen is going to save you, or even make you last another second. Shield regen has only ever mattered in PvE and that's the only place it ever will matter. that only applies to large scale. shield regen can be used and makes a difference in smaller scale engagements. Also ASB. Even in small scale base shield regen is meaningless. Even in PvE, you have to fit modules dedicated to passive regen in order to make it effective at all. Base shield regen is really only a multiplier for any modules you fit geared towards passive shield regen. By itself it is useless. The amount of time it takes to regenerate your shields is massive. And what the hell does ASB have to do with anything? Active and buffer tank don't really mix, so there's no discussion on that subject to be had.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 1007	Posted - 2015.12.01 20:32:40 - [57] - Quote would be nice for a passive rattlesnake to be worth a crap again..
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2744	Posted - 2015.12.02 01:54:41 - [58] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: would be nice for a passive rattlesnake to be worth a crap again.. It was only ever worth anything before because active tanking was sh+¡t and not everyone can be bothered to bring logi to help, especially when your PVE income is substantially higher when you run sites solo (which is generally easy if you have a good setup). You can still run PVE just fine in a passive regen Rattlesnake but its performance is and always has been sub-par. There has never been a ship that wasn't sub-par for passive regen tanking, including the Drake. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 792	Posted - 2015.12.02 03:21:08 - [59] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Joe Risalo wrote: would be nice for a passive rattlesnake to be worth a crap again.. It was only ever worth anything before because active tanking was sh+¡t and not everyone can be bothered to bring logi to help, especially when your PVE income is substantially higher when you run sites solo (which is generally easy if you have a good setup). You can still run PVE just fine in a passive regen Rattlesnake but its performance is and always has been sub-par. There has never been a ship that wasn't sub-par for passive regen tanking, including the Drake. I dunno, I have a passive fit and I like it. Of course I make use of some mobility and range to reduce damage. The slots usually reserved for the cap to feed active boosters is all damage boosting mods. To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Matthew Dust Valklear Legionnaires Minmatar Republic Marines 46	Posted - 2015.12.02 03:28:35 - [60] - Quote passive buffer tank makes shield logi useful, but until then it'll never be anywhere near as useful as armor fleets with armor logi. I would rather have logi than have to use an x-large ancil shield booster. And the minmatar factions need shield buffs to the faction shield extenders at the very least.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 1008	Posted - 2015.12.02 05:06:45 - [61] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Joe Risalo wrote: would be nice for a passive rattlesnake to be worth a crap again.. It was only ever worth anything before because active tanking was sh+¡t and not everyone can be bothered to bring logi to help, especially when your PVE income is substantially higher when you run sites solo (which is generally easy if you have a good setup). You can still run PVE just fine in a passive regen Rattlesnake but its performance is and always has been sub-par. There has never been a ship that wasn't sub-par for passive regen tanking, including the Drake. Rattlesnake used to be able to pull off a 1500 EHP/s passive tank with a t2 fit... It was awesome...
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2745	Posted - 2015.12.02 05:13:18 - [62] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: Rattlesnake used to be able to pull off a 1500 EHP/s passive tank with a t2 fit... It was awesome... I wasn't aware anything had changed as far as passive tanking, but I do know the Rattlesnake gets more like 1000-1100 EHP/s with T2 fit. What changed? Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
unidenify Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium 162	Posted - 2015.12.02 14:02:33 - [63] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Joe Risalo wrote: Rattlesnake used to be able to pull off a 1500 EHP/s passive tank with a t2 fit... It was awesome... I wasn't aware anything had changed as far as passive tanking, but I do know the Rattlesnake gets more like 1000-1100 EHP/s with T2 fit. What changed? probably nerf on 5%/level to 4% resist/level
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 250	Posted - 2015.12.02 15:44:42 - [64] - Quote Valacus wrote: Lady Rift wrote: Valacus wrote: Makes sense to me. Battleships in general aren't all that common, but shield battleships are definitely the ones seen the least. It's way easier to get a fat armor tank on a battleship than a shield tank. Small shield extenders don't get used period, and large on used on the second smallest ship size. It makes no sense that there isn't a larger shield extender for battleships. You can easily get two 1600 plates on any armor battleship, and they're worth twice as much. "Oh, but shield regen!" Which contributes nothing to your buffer. Either you get reps or you explode. No tiny shield regen is going to save you, or even make you last another second. Shield regen has only ever mattered in PvE and that's the only place it ever will matter. that only applies to large scale. shield regen can be used and makes a difference in smaller scale engagements. Also ASB. Even in small scale base shield regen is meaningless. Even in PvE, you have to fit modules dedicated to passive regen in order to make it effective at all. Base shield regen is really only a multiplier for any modules you fit geared towards passive shield regen. By itself it is useless. The amount of time it takes to regenerate your shields is massive. And what the hell does ASB have to do with anything? Active and buffer tank don't really mix, so there's no discussion on that subject to be had. ASB's are something that shield have that armor don't just like armor can fit worth more ehp.

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