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Shayla Etherodyne
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Posted - 2007.01.12 07:54:00 -
[31]
The problem 2 week ago was with an outpost or a player owned station, not a pos.
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Xsag
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.01.12 07:59:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne The problem 2 week ago was with an outpost or a player owned station, not a pos.
showing ur n00bness there aintcha wot do u think POS stands for? POS (Player Owned Station)
~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ |
Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.01.12 08:36:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 12/01/2007 08:33:10 No it's Player Owned Structure. You should know what you're talking about before mouthing off.
To the OP. Look at it this way.
If someone came to you and said, "hey could you run these goods from this 0.0 station to empire for me for 6mil, oh and I'd need a 55mil isk collatoral as well", would you take the offer?
If you want another player to move the goods you need to pay a high price, the only other option is to do it yourself.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Xsag
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.01.12 08:49:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Xsag on 12/01/2007 08:46:18
Originally by: Wild Rho Edited by: Wild Rho on 12/01/2007 08:33:10 No it's Player Owned Structure. You should know what you're talking about before mouthing off.
To the OP. Look at it this way.
If someone came to you and said, "hey could you run these goods from this 0.0 station to empire for me for 6mil, oh and I'd need a 55mil isk collatoral as well", would you take the offer?
If you want another player to move the goods you need to pay a high price, the only other option is to do it yourself.
yes and a player owned structure doesnt include player owned stations? because a station isnt a structure is it - dont get anally retentive with me son.....
~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ |
Peter Stuyvesant
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.12 09:40:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Xsag yes and a player owned structure doesnt include player owned stations? because a station isnt a structure is it - dont get anally retentive with me son.....
Dont get abusive to Rho, just because you've shown your ignorance. A POS has never, and will never be a station.
POS = Starbase. You know? Control tower, anchored stuff at a moon?
Station = Big thing you can dock at
ok?
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Hillesumos
Constructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.01.12 10:40:00 -
[36]
This kind of thread always get derailed by someone shooting scam at some point. Don't get me wrong there are indeed courier scams or trap and people should be aware of them especially if it goes throught a known pirate bottleneck or 0.0. But a lot more couriers are genuine and pay rather well.
My current problem is the number of courier missions imposed by the contract system. I can only creat about 12 couriers missions and then I have to wait for people to do them and basically all the other goods are stuck. True the couriers are in low sec but for a careful player it shouldn't be a big issue since now people can warp to zero.
Also, people would complain that the rewards are rather low and pale but they should consider those points:
- I currently pay about 1.5 M for a 10 jump mission that can be done in about 30 minutes. If you have a big enough storage (10km3) space you can even do two of them for 3M. I recon (since I have done some of them) that it take about 30 minutes to complete. That 3M to 6M per hour which is a reasonnable payout in low sec.
- Thoses couriers are no brainer: check the local map to see any destroyed ship, pickup the good and deliver them. No pew pew and if you fit your ship well (using preferably a transport) very little risk of dying since there are not bubble and you would mostly face BS which need to tank the sentry.
- I usually pay 10% of the collateral or about 20% of my net profit for the hauling job and I recon it is fair and reasonnable.
- If you are not satisfied with the courier, be my guest don't do them but don't blame all of them as totally useless. Also, feel free to buy/sell all the stuff yourself and see how much cash and effort you have to do to get the whole system going with all the profit.
Now the issue is that a lot of people will say that they are not worth doing and too dangerous compared to other activities. I agree that they may not be as exiting as farming lvl 4 missions but they do offer a decent pay and should be treated as such. A lot of them can be an efficient way to build your cash flow.
Note: if you are interrested in doing them, you can always convo me for more info and I am happy to chip in 500K extra reward and make individual only courier for reliable haulers.
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Sadly I just make ISK, I don't print it. :(
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.01.12 10:59:00 -
[37]
Believe me, when the collateral is 600m isk and your ship has a further 150m worth of modules on it, it can be extremely exciting ------
So you're lagged out in Motsu/Saila/Aramachi, but you want that CNR? Do missions for another corp! |
Christopher Scott
Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen
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Posted - 2007.01.12 11:07:00 -
[38]
Any courier with high collateral, even legitimate ones, are scams waiting to happen.
If the issuer finds out the courier has been accepted, and it goes through 0.0 space, the character can be tracked and ambushed. The issuer will be rewarded the collateral, and if lucky, the item as well (it if was worth anything).
Courier missions are in the very sense flawed, and the ONLY way they can work is if the collateral aspect is removed. If the item is lost during the delivery process, the item must reset to it's originating location, and the courier mission reset. I know it sounds impossible to explain from a science-fiction standpoint, but so is "space friction" and insurance that includes pirating and acts of war.
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Xsag
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.01.12 11:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant
Originally by: Xsag yes and a player owned structure doesnt include player owned stations? because a station isnt a structure is it - dont get anally retentive with me son.....
Dont get abusive to Rho, just because you've shown your ignorance. A POS has never, and will never be a station.
POS = Starbase. You know? Control tower, anchored stuff at a moon?
Station = Big thing you can dock at
ok?
so if a station isnt a structure wots it made out of GAS? No its made of materials just like any STRUCTURE. If im honest im only replying because your all so hellbent on proving me wrong :-) and i find it amusing
have a nice day
~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ |
Xsag
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.01.12 11:14:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Christopher Scott Any courier with high collateral, even legitimate ones, are scams waiting to happen.
If the issuer finds out the courier has been accepted, and it goes through 0.0 space, the character can be tracked and ambushed. The issuer will be rewarded the collateral, and if lucky, the item as well (it if was worth anything).
Courier missions are in the very sense flawed, and the ONLY way they can work is if the collateral aspect is removed. If the item is lost during the delivery process, the item must reset to it's originating location, and the courier mission reset. I know it sounds impossible to explain from a science-fiction standpoint, but so is "space friction" and insurance that includes pirating and acts of war.
you do have a point there but if there was no collaterol then theres not much to stop ppl keeping the goods they haul and people wont like the "reset item from whence it came" option as it wouldnt be realistic (inline with eve's ethos), i think it would be much fairer if the collaterol was the value of the goods least that way if u choose to steal them then it costs u market value and the owner of the mission can replace said goods....(just a suggestion) but i do agree it definitely needs changing - currently i woudnt even consider doing courier missions due to the inherent risks - going through 0.0 losing the collaterol etc
~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ |
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Za Po
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.12 11:15:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Believe me, when the collateral is 600m isk and your ship has a further 150m worth of modules on it, it can be extremely exciting
Yeah, but then what would be the reward? I wouldn't do a mission with a half bil collateral for less then a hundred millions, and even then only if I was somehow sure that it isn't a scam to begin with. Less than that, and the risk outweighs the reward.
OTOH, if I had to transport something worth a half bil, I wouldn't want to pay a hundred millions for the transport. More often than not, I simply can't pay 20% of the value of the good, just for transport; that'd sink whatever profits I wanted to make.
Basically, courier missions don't work economically IMO, except in special circumstances.
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Major Stormer
Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.01.12 11:39:00 -
[42]
What if you could only set the collateral to a max double of the reward?
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Xsag
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.01.12 11:51:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Major Stormer What if you could only set the collateral to a max double of the reward?
thats a really good idea! because it would enourage ppl to set rewards worthy of the cargo and the issuer would want to cover the cost of their goods and so as to be able to set a collateral that covers the cost of the goods couriers will get a decent reward for the job once completed.
/signed!!
~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ |
Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.01.12 11:51:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Xsag
so if a station isnt a structure wots it made out of GAS? No its made of materials just like any STRUCTURE. If im honest im only replying because your all so hellbent on proving me wrong :-) and i find it amusing
have a nice day
You can be as pedantic as you like but it doesn't make you right. A ship has a structure but we don't call it a pos so that whole argument (what there was of it) goes out the window.
Your definition of what POS stands for was wrong and what a POS is was also wrong whether you chose to admit it or not.
Player stations are called stations or outposts. POS are control towers or sometimes called starbases.
Feel free to ask in any public channel what a POS is if you don't want to believe me. You can claim what you want, it really doesn't change anything.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Peter Stuyvesant
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.12 11:56:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Peter Stuyvesant on 12/01/2007 11:53:34
Originally by: Xsag
Originally by: Peter Stuyvesant
Originally by: Xsag yes and a player owned structure doesnt include player owned stations? because a station isnt a structure is it - dont get anally retentive with me son.....
Dont get abusive to Rho, just because you've shown your ignorance. A POS has never, and will never be a station.
POS = Starbase. You know? Control tower, anchored stuff at a moon?
Station = Big thing you can dock at
ok?
so if a station isnt a structure wots it made out of GAS? No its made of materials just like any STRUCTURE. If im honest im only replying because your all so hellbent on proving me wrong :-) and i find it amusing
have a nice day
And we're only replying because we find it amusing that you go around calling people 'n00bs' () while displaying all the signs of being one yourself, not to mention calling people 'son' like a patronising ****.
So: clueless and patronising. Nice combo.
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Xsag
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.01.12 12:09:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Originally by: Xsag
so if a station isnt a structure wots it made out of GAS? No its made of materials just like any STRUCTURE. If im honest im only replying because your all so hellbent on proving me wrong :-) and i find it amusing
have a nice day
You can be as pedantic as you like but it doesn't make you right. A ship has a structure but we don't call it a pos so that whole argument (what there was of it) goes out the window.
Your definition of what POS stands for was wrong and what a POS is was also wrong whether you chose to admit it or not.
Player stations are called stations or outposts. POS are control towers or sometimes called starbases.
Feel free to ask in any public channel what a POS is if you don't want to believe me. You can claim what you want, it really doesn't change anything.
all this flaming from one post about whether a courier contract can be set to be delivered to a pos or not.......which granted i started - rather than let this continue to escalate ill just say sorry (because this really achieves nothing and is almost hijacking the OP which in turn is making the whole thread hard reading for those actually interested in this topic, and besides some interesting ideas are now being raised in this thread imo)
~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Vanguard Frontiers
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Posted - 2007.01.12 12:19:00 -
[47]
Increase the payout to 40mil. Increase the collateral to 90mil.
A 40mil payout for a 90 mil collateral will attract half decent people, as it would look like a more serious courier mission. Even then you will find it hard to get takers due to ECP scenario. As it stands, people would pay a random ganker 6 mil just to shoot you down for a laugh. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2007.01.12 13:13:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Plutoinum That would be rubbish. Those missions could be taken by whoever could dock there. And that's often also the intention of the mission creater. If someone else claims it and doesn't read the warning message that states, that he may not complete the mission, if he can't dock there, then that guy deserves to get burnt.
You are technically correct. If the location is locked out to them they can't complete the mission.
However if I say turned up at the system within the set time and said "I have your stuff let me in so I can deliver or make some other arrangement" and you said "haha screw you I'm keeping the money" then your liable to get banned as your actions were clearly to steal the money and not a valid contract.
The collateral is to stop people from running off with your items, or if they get blown up (and looted) it is their fault and their loss.
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Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.01.12 13:27:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Mira deVorsha
Originally by: Plutoinum That would be rubbish. Those missions could be taken by whoever could dock there. And that's often also the intention of the mission creater. If someone else claims it and doesn't read the warning message that states, that he may not complete the mission, if he can't dock there, then that guy deserves to get burnt.
You are technically correct. If the location is locked out to them they can't complete the mission.
However if I say turned up at the system within the set time and said "I have your stuff let me in so I can deliver or make some other arrangement" and you said "haha screw you I'm keeping the money" then your liable to get banned as your actions were clearly to steal the money and not a valid contract.
Actually that raises a curious idea. I wonder if it would be possible that if a courier mission was set to an outpost that had locked access would the courier mission give them a pass to dock there to deliver the package regardless of standings? The docked pilot cannot use any facilties while there but can deliver the cargo and complete the contract.
(Of course getting in and out would be the challenge but then again, the courier should at least hold some responsibility for ensuring they have the ability to deliver the goods as well).
Once the mission is completed the pass is revoked.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Hillesumos
Constructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.01.12 13:44:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Christopher Scott Any courier with high collateral, even legitimate ones, are scams waiting to happen.
If the issuer finds out the courier has been accepted, and it goes through 0.0 space, the character can be tracked and ambushed. The issuer will be rewarded the collateral, and if lucky, the item as well (it if was worth anything).
Christopher this is exactly the kind of comment that make my business deal go under. I have set some couriers missions and they were completed and the guy who did it did get his reward. I agree that couriers are not I WIN missions since you do have to check the route and see the map to check current activity on the route but they are doable and remember the mantra: risk/reward balance. Couriers are not that dangerous since you are moving through system, you are not static in a belt ncping or doing missions and you can setup your ship accordingly. Sure you have an expensive cargo but hey it is prolly less expensive than a nicely fitted BS to do lvl4 missions in low sec and people DO that. So yeah it is a little bit more dangerous but it is also a little bit more rewarding.
As regarding setting the collateral as being twice the size of the reward as a maximum, it is a nice idea but it would be eating all my profit. I don't mind sharing a share of the profit with the hauler but I am doing a lot more than just hauling the good. (checking the market, finding buyer ectc....) and it would be simply unprofitable if the reward was 50% of the collateral.
---------
Sadly I just make ISK, I don't print it. :(
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Xsag
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.01.12 13:48:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Originally by: Mira deVorsha
Originally by: Plutoinum That would be rubbish. Those missions could be taken by whoever could dock there. And that's often also the intention of the mission creater. If someone else claims it and doesn't read the warning message that states, that he may not complete the mission, if he can't dock there, then that guy deserves to get burnt.
You are technically correct. If the location is locked out to them they can't complete the mission.
However if I say turned up at the system within the set time and said "I have your stuff let me in so I can deliver or make some other arrangement" and you said "haha screw you I'm keeping the money" then your liable to get banned as your actions were clearly to steal the money and not a valid contract.
Actually that raises a curious idea. I wonder if it would be possible that if a courier mission was set to an outpost that had locked access would the courier mission give them a pass to dock there to deliver the package regardless of standings? The docked pilot cannot use any facilties while there but can deliver the cargo and complete the contract.
(Of course getting in and out would be the challenge but then again, the courier should at least hold some responsibility for ensuring they have the ability to deliver the goods as well).
Once the mission is completed the pass is revoked.
Giving them a pass - or maybe set it so the goods are tagged to allow the courier passage to the destination(?), once delivered to the station losing the tag (in the same way that a mission is marked as delivered when goods are detected in hangar) would ensure all courier missions can be completed may even reduce the number of scam courier missions that are being run ? Do you think if that were implemented so that ppl offering courier missions had no choice and the tag / pass was part and parcel of the mission regardless of whether the creator of the mission wanted to or not.
~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ |
Copine Callmeknau
The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Xsag Edited by: Xsag on 12/01/2007 08:46:18
Originally by: Wild Rho Edited by: Wild Rho on 12/01/2007 08:33:10 No it's Player Owned Structure. You should know what you're talking about before mouthing off.
To the OP. Look at it this way.
If someone came to you and said, "hey could you run these goods from this 0.0 station to empire for me for 6mil, oh and I'd need a 55mil isk collatoral as well", would you take the offer?
If you want another player to move the goods you need to pay a high price, the only other option is to do it yourself.
yes and a player owned structure doesnt include player owned stations? because a station isnt a structure is it - dont get anally retentive with me son.....
hahaha
You **** Perhaps learn the game before you start trying to be a smartass?
-----
Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford.
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Skye Cloudstrike
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Posted - 2007.01.12 17:23:00 -
[53]
Seriously. What do you pay for a real person, IRL, to pick up some package of (maybe vaulable) goods and custom direct-deliver them immediately to a target location? I'm not asking about shipping it through a common carrier like UPS or FedEx (in the USA) since EVE doesn't have any such system at the moment, but a dedicated courier service.
Come to think of it, how often do you even use such a thing in real life, and why? I'd guess the answer is rarely, because it's really expensive, and you likely limit it to the following, with perhaps a few exceptions:
1.) High priority goods or documents (say skillbooks that you need Now) that you must have promptly and are unable to handle yourself.
2.) High value goods that you want moved quickly and quietly.
Of these, option (2) is dangerous if the value is high enough, because it's likely to be a target, perhaps even of enemy action/espionage. Thus, in EVE courier missions are really only useful for moving small quantities of goods quickly. If you demand high collateral, expect to be charged accordingly - you can't FedEx 50M USD worth of goods without paying DEARLY for the insurance rider, which is effectively what you're asking the person accepting the courier mission to front/place in escrow.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.13 00:49:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 13/01/2007 00:48:42
Originally by: Xsag Giving them a pass - or maybe set it so the goods are tagged to allow the courier passage to the destination(?), once delivered to the station losing the tag (in the same way that a mission is marked as delivered when goods are detected in hangar) would ensure all courier missions can be completed may even reduce the number of scam courier missions that are being run ? Do you think if that were implemented so that ppl offering courier missions had no choice and the tag / pass was part and parcel of the mission regardless of whether the creator of the mission wanted to or not.
An excellent idea. Lets get a few couriers to take freightors in and empty out the market in the staion while we are at it :)
Im sure the station owners wont mind that the station has been emptied clean, providing a massive advantage to the agressor, who gets fresh stocks delivered quickly, or for easy resale at 200% -- Slot 10 Blacklight's Modified 'GMhaX' implant +8% Pwnage FREE |
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2007.01.13 02:21:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Wild Rho A ship has a structure but we don't call it a pos
Sure we do.
If its a minmatar ship ~~~~~~~~~ Caldari. It's so easy a Minmatar could do it. |
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