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Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:16:00 -
[1]
While I wasn't stupid enough to fall for it, I think there is a game mechanic that helps griefers:-
I was mining a bit of ice, storing it in a jetcan, minding my own business, when a Typhoon pulls up alongside me. Perhaps he's looting my wrecks and salvaging them (I'd just put out an invite in local for the n00bs). I ignored him. He's not gonna take 6000m3 of ice in a typhoon.
No, what he's gonna do is launch his own jetcan, open mine, then drag the whole lot across! This shouldn't be possible. Surely transfers should have to go through your cargo hold to be anything like sensible and realistic?
What does he do then? Blows up the can and logs off!
This isn't a whine BTW, more and inquirey as to the ilogical mechanics in certain aspects of Eve.
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Kylania
Gallente Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:17:00 -
[2]
The solution to this is to not solo mine, period. Have a friend there to pick up the ore/ice/whatever as you mine it. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap | How to Build from a BPO |
DangermanUK
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:33:00 -
[3]
^ ditto. Mining to a jetcan is never safe, nor is it meant to be. DangermanUK Not dangerous, but am a man in the UK! Has anyone seen my alt? |
Amantus
Gallente Murientor Tribe Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Amantus on 12/01/2007 15:32:01 Petition him for griefing?
He's getting sod all from it so it's no legitimate ore thievery or piracy. He went out of his way to annoy you while gaining exactly nothing. Pretty lame tbh.
Edit: Yeah about the mechanic, maybe it should be changed to having to let stuff go through your cargo. It won't screw dedicated ore theives who steal stuff legitimately but might stop griefers from doing stuff like that. ----------- It's great being Gallente aint it? No, seriously I think it's pretty good. |
Admai Sket
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Amantus Petition him for griefing?
He's getting sod all from it so it's no legitimate ore thievery or piracy. He went out of his way to annoy you while gaining exactly nothing. Pretty lame tbh.
No he didn't - he just got a load of ore for free, and the possibility of a bit of PvP - it's legit, whether it's nice or not.
-------------- Sig removed, due to inappropriate content. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your sig!) -wystler - Fantastic! Thanks! :) |
Amantus
Gallente Murientor Tribe Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Admai Sket
Originally by: Amantus Petition him for griefing?
He's getting sod all from it so it's no legitimate ore thievery or piracy. He went out of his way to annoy you while gaining exactly nothing. Pretty lame tbh.
No he didn't - he just got a load of ore for free, and the possibility of a bit of PvP - it's legit, whether it's nice or not.
Maybe I misread but I read that he blew up all the ice then logged off straight after. Gaining nothing. ----------- It's great being Gallente aint it? No, seriously I think it's pretty good. |
Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:48:00 -
[7]
It's not griefing even if he blew up the ore, because once he took the ore, it was his to do what he wants with. (Although blowing up ore makes Ironfleet salvagers cry, and we don't do it.)
That said, sometimes when Ironfleet rescues jettisoned ore, we flip it into an Ironfleet can and then have another character (usually me) use an indy or transport to haul it quickly away. I can't tell you how many times we've been yelled at in local for "destroying" ore that was safely in our hangars waiting for our refinery specialists to fondle and caress it.
I don't know if it's overview settings or camera views or being focused on the flipping ship, but a huge percentage of ore jettisoners just never seem to see the transport. So perhaps that's what happened here.
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Kylania
Gallente Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:52:00 -
[8]
It's that special kind of greifing that's well within game mechanics. As was mentioned, he gained nothing from it so it's pure greifing. It's similar to a school bully walking up to some kid and knocking his sandwich onto the floor, just because he can. Very telling about the type of person that Typhoon pilot is, beyond the fact that he choose to fly a trash can.
But again, it's 98% preventable, so I dunno. Might as well petition it, anyone that does that kind of crap has probably done worse before and will do even worse after. Players like that add very very little to the game. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap | How to Build from a BPO |
Falcione
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:53:00 -
[9]
Never jet a can to mine....Especially Ice.
Anchor a can or you can't complain when this happens.
----------- My Bio in Progress Prologue / CH.1 |
DarkFenix
Caldari Pilots From Honour
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:55:00 -
[10]
While I certainly don't condone this kind of griefing of player miners, it is part of the game mechanics and isn't any kind of exploit. The devs have said repeatedly that jetcans aren't meant to be safe or secure, if you mine solo you run the risk of losing your ore, whether it gets stolen or popped.
Conversely, this kind of griefing is great for macro miners. Some systems are particularly great for harvesting ore from them, just get a nice big ship to transfer it to its can, then have a hauler take it from there. I did once manage (somehow) to get a macro miner in a covetor to aggro my battleship, which was certainly a nice perk to my ore thieving.
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Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:55:00 -
[11]
I do that in the hopes the miner gets mad at me and sends his drones after me. After seeing everything in 0.0 log off at the mere sight of me in local (or any of my corpmates, for that matter... or anyone not blue...), I rather like messing with highsec miners again. They don't log because they think they're safe. But highsec doesn't protect you from reflexively attacking blinky reds =P ----------------------------
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
WTB: Friggin' portrait |
Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.12 15:59:00 -
[12]
A way to deal with this that is not foolproof is to repetedly yetison containers while you are sitting there.
After a while you have a huge amount.
When someone gets close you start shifting the ice or ore between your different containers untill he leaves.
Also remember that you can only open cans really close to you so if you have... say just 5 cans but they are spread out round you you can shift the stuff you want to a can out of reach from him.
I do however agree with the notion that you should never consider a jet can safe, you should likewise not mine into jetcans.
It is true that you dont get all that much ice into a secure container of the largest size but ice in there is safe from the above grief.
And yes, it is grief, it is however not grief that is against the game rules.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:02:00 -
[13]
Seems to me game mechanics wise this is a screwed up system.
Want to steal my ore? Fine. Then as the thief you should have to decide whether to steal it in a hauler and get a big haul (but risk getting attacked) or whether you want to steal in a battleship (smaller haul but less chance of getting attacked).
As a miner I might set my drones after a hauler (nevermind them hoping to do this so they can bring a combat ship back in after me) but I'm not stupid enough to try that against a battleship. At least the battleship is hauling so little away that it isn't as big a deal.
EVE is always about a give and take in the choices you make. If you can move ore from one can to another in a battleship then you have essentially taken possession with near zero risk to yourself. Ideally an ore thief should have to make the same hard decisions everyone else does.
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Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Marlenus I don't know if it's overview settings or camera views or being focused on the flipping ship, but a huge percentage of ore jettisoners just never seem to see the transport. So perhaps that's what happened here.
There was no transporter involved. I checked the can he transfered to and it contained all my ice. I told him he was wasting his time waiting for me to take it and let him pop me, so he popped the can.
On the subject of the overview tho, it doesn't help that it doesn't refresh on it's own. After he'd done the swap, his ship flashed red but not on the overview til I [TAB] refreshed it. If I hadn't noticed his ship flashing, I'd have been none the wiser til I took the ice back.
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Vladikov Orrico
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:12:00 -
[15]
Man there must be tons of people waiting to jump on people screaming "quit whining loser!"
because they obviosuly are so ready to post that they missed the main point of the OP.
Quote: This isn't a whine BTW, more and inquirey as to the ilogical mechanics in certain aspects of Eve.
He was wondering how a tiny craft can transfer that much ICE at one time from can to can....logic would assume that the cargo would have to be able to fit in the ship's cargo hold and then be transfered to the new can.
He was not whining about greifing. Let's stop the derail and get back on topic.
I personally think it's garbage that cargo transfer between two cans can be done on any scale no matter what ship you are in...that definately is something that needs to be looked at.
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Vladikov Orrico
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:12:00 -
[16]
Man there must be tons of people waiting to jump on people screaming "quit whining loser!"
because they obviosuly are so ready to post that they missed the main point of the OP.
Quote: This isn't a whine BTW, more and inquirey as to the ilogical mechanics in certain aspects of Eve.
He was wondering how a tiny craft can transfer that much ICE at one time from can to can....logic would assume that the cargo would have to be able to fit in the ship's cargo hold and then be transfered to the new can.
He was not whining about greifing. Let's stop the derail and get back on topic.
I personally think it's garbage that cargo transfer between two cans can be done on any scale no matter what ship you are in...that definately is something that needs to be looked at.
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Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:13:00 -
[17]
In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!!
My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk?
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Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:13:00 -
[18]
In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!!
My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk?
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Der Komissar
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:14:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Der Komissar on 12/01/2007 16:10:48
Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!!
My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk?
Getting blown up by you.
Call the whaaambulance, eve is not fair
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Der Komissar
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:14:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Der Komissar on 12/01/2007 16:10:48
Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!!
My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk?
Getting blown up by you.
Call the whaaambulance, eve is not fair
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:30:00 -
[21]
There is no griefing on this game . People call griefing anyone making harm to others.. that is pVP.
Only griefing is whne a vet for example put a can outside anoob station.. or invite a 5 hours old cahracter to gang to carry it to low sec just o pod him.. etc..
All other things are not griefing.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Kunming
Outcasts
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Admai Sket
Originally by: Amantus Petition him for griefing?
He's getting sod all from it so it's no legitimate ore thievery or piracy. He went out of his way to annoy you while gaining exactly nothing. Pretty lame tbh.
No he didn't - he just got a load of ore for free, and the possibility of a bit of PvP - it's legit, whether it's nice or not.
OFC it is griefing silly... he had fun ruining someone elses gameplay, without financial, tactical or strategical gain, if thats not griefing I'm George W Bush
Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nicocat I do that in the hopes the miner gets mad at me and sends his drones after me. After seeing everything in 0.0 log off at the mere sight of me in local (or any of my corpmates, for that matter... or anyone not blue...), I rather like messing with highsec miners again. They don't log because they think they're safe. But highsec doesn't protect you from reflexively attacking blinky reds =P
Ok, if someone in a MINING SHIP reflexively attack someone blinking red, even I will think he deserve what he get.
I am more ot the kind get the megathron and then attack.
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Lin Dze
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!!
My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk?
Having gang-mates warp in with a couple battleships and then say "Hello, our names are Inigo and Montoya. You stole from our friend's can. Prepare to die." |
Lord Slater
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:57:00 -
[25]
simple fix have a guy next to you in a industrial constantly emptying the can [exept for say an item of ammo to keep the can. That way the Ore thief is welcome to the can he wont get the ore tho. ----------------------------------------------- YYAARRHH HAHAHA IM THE HAPPY PIRATE
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Vanguard Frontiers
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:58:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 12/01/2007 16:56:09
Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!!
My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk?
Blowing up a can activates a 15 minute timer that is reset if he logs off before the 15mins is up.
You probe him out and have all the time in the world to get a noobship kill on him!
And yes - I have tested this - You stay for 15mins in space after you log if you blow up a can! And ore theft aggro is 15 mins anyway so work it out and blow up his ship :) -- Slot 10 Blacklight's Modified 'GMhaX' implant +8% Pwnage FREE |
Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.12 17:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Der Komissar Edited by: Der Komissar on 12/01/2007 16:10:48
Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!!
My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk?
Getting blown up by you.
Call the whaaambulance, eve is not fair
Hmmmmm. Wonder how long it would take to destroy a Typhoon, using mining lasers and light drones? That's assuming he never got the urge to destroy my ship first
Anyway, back on topic, my point really was that realistically he shouldn't have been able to transfer 6000m3 of ice when his cargo space is <1000m3.
I don't mind in the slightest if someone has the balls to drive up in a hauler and empty my can. That's why I have a scrambler and 5 x T2 drones
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ee21k
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Posted - 2007.01.12 17:19:00 -
[28]
things you can do in future:
1. when you see possible ore thief approching, stop your miners mining, open your can, right click 'select all', drag all selected item over to your hold BUT dont release the button. When ore thief tries to take your stuff he is told that it is already in use.
2. when mining always be grouped with corpmates, even if they are in different system. plan is as above, but leave a small deposit of something unselected (prefrably first thing in can) e.g. 2k of veld. when thief steals all from you he gets nothing except for 2k of veld and draws full aggro from your group. get yer chums in to mop him up
3. worst case: you dont know whats happening, or how things work and you somehow allow him to gain aggro on you (i.e. your drones were predeployed and attack him or something) He is probably in a battleship fireing missiles at you (because that way if anyone warps to 0 on you he is far enough away to run) thus eject from your ship and let the missiles pod you. let concorde do its job. respawn back in station, get in shuttle, fly out to your mining ship, get back in. continue mining. you may laugh now. never smack talk. it encourages them.
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Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.12 17:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ee21k 1. when you see possible ore thief approching, stop your miners mining, open your can, right click 'select all', drag all selected item over to your hold BUT dont release the button. When ore thief tries to take your stuff he is told that it is already in use.
I really wish I'd known this one. Every days a school day!
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.12 17:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Amantus Edited by: Amantus on 12/01/2007 15:32:01 Petition him for griefing?
He's getting sod all from it so it's no legitimate ore thievery or piracy. He went out of his way to annoy you while gaining exactly nothing. Pretty lame tbh.
Edit: Yeah about the mechanic, maybe it should be changed to having to let stuff go through your cargo. It won't screw dedicated ore theives who steal stuff legitimately but might stop griefers from doing stuff like that.
I think its damn funny actually its like filling some ones house with small cups of water or covering some one with sticky notes while they are passed out drunk. Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!? |
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