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Kun'mi
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Posted - 2007.01.14 22:24:00 -
[1]
I'm a 13mil SP amarr pilot thinking about training for the AMARR (only this one..i dont want to train for another race.) stealth bomber.
I've head these things are lethal to frig sized ships when fitted with precision cruise missiles..
Being Amarr, I know f*** all about missiles, and i'm wonder how effective a stealth bombers cruise missiles would be against larger ships, such as cruisers and bc's.
How many stealth bombers would it take to kill an averagly fitted cruiser or battlecruiser relatively quickly?
Could two bombers kill a cruiser in under a minute?
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Sir Dancealot
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Posted - 2007.01.14 22:37:00 -
[2]
Im currently training for them, and I've been thinking a lot. AFAIK, the stealth-bombers doesnt have the recalibration time which other ships suffer from when fitting a cloak.
Now what I dont know is, if the reactivation delay also is removed on the stealthbombers.
If it isnt, then I guess a good tactic for taking on battlecruisers or cruisers could be:
Mediums: 2 sensor-damp, 1 20km warp scrambler.
Then work in groups of... think at least 3.
One of you uncloak, sensor damp and warp scramble. The first cloaks again. Next uncloaks and does the same as the first - and I suppose you could keep on doing that till you get him down.
Fire one volley each, and cloak while waiting for the next volley to be ready.
Can someone tell me if this is possible? Its all theoretical
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CrewSandwich
Caldari Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.14 22:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: CrewSandwich on 14/01/2007 22:49:49 In My opinion Stealth Bombers are useless.
They are paper thin. They can't cloak while warping. The alpha strike might kill a tech 1 hauler, frigate, mining vessel. If they didn't warp away before you got them locked and missle volley sent.
The only way I can see to even use it with the new patch is if you have 5-10 of them working together. Even then the only way you could get close to your prey would be if they are asleep, afk, or drunk. Although you could sit cloaked at some belt and wait but with the new system of showing hostiles in local with an icon, its very difficult to not be noticed.
Things I feel would make the stealth bomber worth the time to train:
- Increased Damage/rate of fire/range multiplier for Missles. - Being able to cloak while warping. - More of a defined role. ie. crusier squashes frigate, battlecruiser squashes crusier, etc. - Increased resistances making it more durable. - Allow it to be able to fit more launchers.
If some of these things changed it could be a legitimate behind enemy lines rougue ship.
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ForceMajeure
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Posted - 2007.01.14 23:01:00 -
[4]
I agree, at a minimum the stealth bombers need to be able to warp cloaked.
Other than the ability to fire cruise missiles, there is nothing unique or significant about the stealth bombers.
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ForceMajeure
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Posted - 2007.01.14 23:01:00 -
[5]
I agree, at a minimum the stealth bombers need to be able to warp cloaked.
Other than the ability to fire cruise missiles, there is nothing unique or significant about the stealth bombers.
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Sir Dancealot
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Posted - 2007.01.14 23:02:00 -
[6]
As much as I agree with you, I think some of your suggestion makes it too much of a mix between the other ships.
I like that it's paperthin. To give it rate of fire bonuses also removes the ''sneaky'' thing about it - as you basically just hang around after you decloak and keep firing.
I think they should get better bonuses for the damage, so they keep the ''uncloack -> shoot -> decloack''.
I'd also like to see a little more speed. In order to be realatively safe, you have to warp in a rather long distances (the good interceptor pilots will decloak you if you warp to say 15 km), and to slowboat 50 km is an ass - just to see those at the gate warp away when you finally get there.
I think it's all-right that they can't warp cloacked - otherwise they'd be overpowered imo.
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Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar 54th Knights Templar
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Posted - 2007.01.14 23:02:00 -
[7]
They'll mess up cruisers in a hurry, there is a recloak time of 5 seconds though. Stealth bombers are pretty reliant on packs, but from what I can tell each races bomber plays a slightly different role..
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Sir Dancealot
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Posted - 2007.01.14 23:02:00 -
[8]
As much as I agree with you, I think some of your suggestion makes it too much of a mix between the other ships.
I like that it's paperthin. To give it rate of fire bonuses also removes the ''sneaky'' thing about it - as you basically just hang around after you decloak and keep firing.
I think they should get better bonuses for the damage, so they keep the ''uncloack -> shoot -> decloack''.
I'd also like to see a little more speed. In order to be realatively safe, you have to warp in a rather long distances (the good interceptor pilots will decloak you if you warp to say 15 km), and to slowboat 50 km is an ass - just to see those at the gate warp away when you finally get there.
I think it's all-right that they can't warp cloacked - otherwise they'd be overpowered imo.
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Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar 54th Knights Templar
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Posted - 2007.01.14 23:02:00 -
[9]
They'll mess up cruisers in a hurry, there is a recloak time of 5 seconds though. Stealth bombers are pretty reliant on packs, but from what I can tell each races bomber plays a slightly different role..
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Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2007.01.14 23:39:00 -
[10]
The Stealth Bomber is one of those ships that has such a specific purpose, that most people miss it.
The Stealth Bomber is the ultimate ship for assasins and assasination missions. Its a ship for people who want to kill a specific person and they take the time to get a lot of intel so that they know exactly where they are going to be and when they are going to be there. Then its just a matter of hitting them hard and fast and the stealth bomber can deal out a hell of a lot of damage and most people forget the experiance of having a ship decloak lock and fire on you while. It can take you 3-4 seconds to really respond mentaly and against a stealth ship your pretty much done at that point. Taking down larger targets takes multiple stealth bombers but commited assasins who have good intel get the job done, I know I've see this type of stuff in action. There are entire corps dedicated to assasination and in most cases they fly stealth bomber for the kill missions and covert ops for the initial recon.
Are you are gamer? www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com |
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Culmen
Caldari Gekidoku
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Posted - 2007.01.14 23:40:00 -
[11]
one thing i never understood everyone claims that stealth bombers would be god like in groups of 5-10 but has anyone actually gotten 5-10 people with cov-ops skills and gone out and actually done it?
and even if so, wouldent a mix of 5-10 AF/Ceptors be far more mobile, survivable and effective _____________________________________________________
Why do i even need a sig? |
jbob2000
Gallente KIA Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.14 23:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust The Stealth Bomber is one of those ships that has such a specific purpose, that most people miss it.
The Stealth Bomber is the ultimate ship for assasins and assasination missions. Its a ship for people who want to kill a specific person and they take the time to get a lot of intel so that they know exactly where they are going to be and when they are going to be there. Then its just a matter of hitting them hard and fast and the stealth bomber can deal out a hell of a lot of damage and most people forget the experiance of having a ship decloak lock and fire on you while. It can take you 3-4 seconds to really respond mentaly and against a stealth ship your pretty much done at that point. Taking down larger targets takes multiple stealth bombers but commited assasins who have good intel get the job done, I know I've see this type of stuff in action. There are entire corps dedicated to assasination and in most cases they fly stealth bomber for the kill missions and covert ops for the initial recon.
You clearly don't understand how eve works. If you're going in a gang to kill people, you take a cov ops for intel, and the rest of the gang is the gank. Stealth bombers are 100% useless, even in gangs. If you're forming a frig gang better to do it with interceptors and AFs. Im just guessing here, but i'm willing to bet an interceptor does more dps then a stealth bomber.
Stealth bombers were just a poor attempt by CCP to replace the cruise kessie.
New Eve UI |
CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2007.01.15 00:17:00 -
[13]
Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 15/01/2007 00:14:03
Quote: Im just guessing here, but i'm willing to bet an interceptor does more dps then a stealth bomber
but a stealth bomber delivers a much larger alpha strike
the bigger the target the more stealth bombers you need
i do think they should be able to warp cloaked tho Edit: and why do caldari get 1 more lancher... is that really balanced?
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Kun'mi
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Posted - 2007.01.15 01:14:00 -
[14]
ok thanks for all the input so far.
The reason I started this post was because i had a particular idea for a use of the stealth bomber.
Picture this. A hauler and an osprey are sitting in a 0.3 system mining. A pirate jumps into the system and spots them the pirate hunts them down and warps to the belt. As the pirate moves in to intercept, the hauler and osprey suddenly lock him and web and scram him down, making him immobile.
At the same time, a gang of stealth bombers decloak 50-60km away and rain down dozens of cruise missiles.
+1 dead pirate.
An alternative would be to sit in a popular ratting system cloaked in a belt and wait for a ratter to come by.
Uncloak, HUGE massive strike, kill target, cloak.
Does my idea have merit? I think it would be funny as hell seeing a pirate try to attack a pair of seemingly helpless carebears, only to get WTFBBQPWNED by a gang of bombers.
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Nev Clavain
Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.15 01:46:00 -
[15]
Stealth bombers are pretty decent, as long as you use the manticore that is :)
The others dont really deal enough damage.
We sometimes have a stealth bomber or two sitting around nearby a gatecamp, and i've seen plenty of inties get caught out, as well as more obvious targets like frigs and haulers.
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ARGH69
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Posted - 2007.01.15 02:25:00 -
[16]
you can cloak any ship, right? so can't any ship be considered or made into a stealth bomber? so what is the reason of why you have to go with the "real" stealth bomber? if they can't cloak while warping take a gang of battleships or cruisers cloaked and you will have all the firepower you need for any occasion.
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sartorii
Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.15 02:36:00 -
[17]
Stealth Bombers are useless for the most part..
what CCP seems to have forgotten is the BOMBER part..
Bombers are High Damage, SINGLE STRIKE platforms.. as such they should only carry 1 (perhaps 2) shots of HEAVY Ordinance. (enough to kill whatever target the bomber is intended to counter BC/BS etc...)
however this would quickly become unbalanced in any system where the bomber pilots could dock and reload quickly, without some significant changes to lock time etc...
To Bad Ignorance isnt Painful |
Preliator
Caldari The Wolves' Pack
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Posted - 2007.01.15 02:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: ARGH69 you can cloak any ship, right? so can't any ship be considered or made into a stealth bomber? so what is the reason of why you have to go with the "real" stealth bomber? if they can't cloak while warping take a gang of battleships or cruisers cloaked and you will have all the firepower you need for any occasion.
Not when you can't lock anything for 30 seconds after decloaking. That's really the bonus of a stealth bomber. It can lock instantly after decloaking.
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Depp Knight
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.15 05:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: ForceMajeure I agree, at a minimum the stealth bombers need to be able to warp cloaked.
Other than the ability to fire cruise missiles, there is nothing unique or significant about the stealth bombers.
wrong, what would be the point in using covert ops then?
Stealth bomber needs a larger role bonus, ie warp scram range, damp increase, target painter increase. actually while thinking of it maybe they should be used a distant thin recon ship. maybe a range increase of those mods while having a missile velocity increase. They could be used as an anti frig while hurting bigger ships in a different manner. Their downside is their hp and speed. Just throwing it out there
However atm they are close at being worthless.
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Aiyleena Iluvatar
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Posted - 2007.01.15 07:43:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Aiyleena Iluvatar on 15/01/2007 07:40:52
Originally by: Depp Knight
wrong, what would be the point in using covert ops then?
tp scan probe some1 ???
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Makree
Ubar Asteroid Hugging Collective
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Posted - 2007.01.15 09:11:00 -
[21]
I used to hunt with in an AF with a guy in a SB. It was very effective. I would hold the target and damp him. The SB has a very long targetting range and someone with good skills and a sensor booster can sit at a 100km and still hit targets in a SB. So while it took ages for the first strike to arrive, the target did not last very long after that.
But, with the stupid prices of t2 ships, you need really deep pockets to try this now. SB die very quickly if someone does get a lock on them.
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DeadProphet
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.15 12:50:00 -
[22]
recon ships are so much better at pretty much anything the bombers can do
*shrug*
Listen to me on BoB Radio Wednesdays 16:00-17:00 & Sunday 18:00-19:00 |
THX 1138
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 13:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: DeadProphet recon ships are so much better at pretty much anything the bombers can do
*shrug*
This is exactly right, though the cost of losing a SB is marginally less. Also, the there is a lower skill point requirement for SB's.
Tuxford has said he is looking at bombers and has something special planned for them - unfortunately the thread was deleted with all the Revelations testing stuff.
This topic arises at least once a week - there are always thousands of requests/suggestions, but nothing happens. I guess we have to be patient.
I also saw a recruitment thread on the forums for bomber pilots - this could be interesting to have an assassination squad for hire all flying these ships. The alpha strike from 30 of these will insta-pop most battleships. But having local destroys the surprise, really. -*-*-*-*-
Individuality is underrated |
magnus amadeus
Amarr Hammer Of Light Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.01.15 13:55:00 -
[24]
The fix seems so simple to me.
Everyone wants a T2 destroyer right? make stealth bombers based off of those hulls, give them like 6-7 cruise missle hardpoints and a -50% ROF role penalty. That way they have very poor DPS but a good alpha strike. They would still be paper thin which is a good thing.
_________________________________________________ Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you down with experience. |
Nir
The Doldrums
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Posted - 2007.01.15 14:11:00 -
[25]
Originally by: THX 1138 This is exactly right, though the cost of losing a SB is marginally less.
In reality though, the cost of cloaks is high enough to not bother with them full stop.
Stealth Bombers and roaming stealth bomber gangs look great on paper, and they are fine for ganking lone noobs who don't happen to spot your blob in local chat. But even then, regular gangs consisting of gank ships with support do the job just fine. There is no reason to handicap yourself by taking stealth bombers over a regular gang.
Its great being Amarr and flying NosDoms, Isn't it?! |
ShroomJohnny
Gallente Ordo Occultus Deus
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Posted - 2007.02.09 01:27:00 -
[26]
I do want to see the Bomber being able to use the cov ops cloak I know its expensive but worth it if your able to warp cloaked. I only see it as a BOMBER! at the moment and bombers are only good for support against bigger targets or they are ok in gangs where you have a scout which can scramble etc... I think they should have some sort of signature bonus so more lock on time for the enemy. it's supposed to be a stealth bomber go in unseen hence why it needs to warp cloaked, otherwise pointless if you warp in and they see you then you cloak its already to late. which I think really makes the prototype cloak crap unless you want to camp it out. As said they might notice the gang in local so not much point really.
As for it being like paper its not supposed to be hit. its supposed to be a hit and run ship really, hence why it needs to be faster and have quicker rate of fire possibly a bit more dmg it still does alot of dmg but a little more would make it that much better, I know it goes faster while cloaked but whats the point when you are seen warping in, as I said before. So more to the point really they can only do the dmg if you have scouters and you have scramlbers with 5 or more bombers is a safe bet for a decent bomber squad. As for if two bombers could take down a cruiser in under a minute its possible if they dont fire back or have a good tank and that you have the skills up. In space no one hears you scream But whispers can be heard |
Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.09 01:42:00 -
[27]
The only thing I'm interested in is if they're going to keep cruise missiles as their primary weapon system after the changes or if it's being changed to something comepletely else. Training for the effective use of cruise missiles is kind of a big amount of "dead" lp for gallente so an update on this issue would be appreciated.
Tuxford? *crickets chirping* -
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Mr Peanut
STK Scientific INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 03:11:00 -
[28]
They hurt cruisers, slightly (but significantly) harm BCs, and almost manage to annoy BS. Nevertheless, they are NOT going to be good at killing anything bigger than a destroyer unless you have a huge group of them. This is because the only thing that they can fight within scramble range in a frigate, or else it will turn around and break their paper armor. I flew the Amarr one for a while, and my favorite use for it was running gate camps and shooting interceptors in small gangs that I also scouted for in it.
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Vigilant
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.09 04:58:00 -
[29]
Anyone ever seen Wing Commander the movie ? NOW that was a bomber
What we have now is pure SH*T
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Beef Hardslab
The 5 Amigo's LLC.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 15:36:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon They'll mess up cruisers in a hurry, there is a recloak time of 5 seconds though. Stealth bombers are pretty reliant on packs, but from what I can tell each races bomber plays a slightly different role..
If your stealth bomber has a recloak time of 5 seconds, you need to raise your skills or get a better cloak. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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