Vachir Khan wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:I'm pretty sure CCP bans can baiters in noobie systems and doesn't ignore them.
They don't, there's folks about the obvious systems who's whole corp does nothing but mess with newbies like that, have been for a long time and continue to do it. They use all kinds of "ingenious" logic such as "I merely take their ore and then fly away, I'm not baiting them at all but if one of them shoots me I have to defend myself ofcourse". I mean, if you can flip ppl go for it but don't use dumb reasoning like that, and don't do it in newbie systems.
I assume you've reported them to CCP, since you've obviously been stalking them and asked for their reasons for doing it. Their logic is irrelevant though, if their actions fall in to the griefing area. That said what you describe is can-flipping and not can-baiting, and it's not what the OPs quote describes. Just in case you don't know the difference, can-baiting noobs is more like dropping a can in a starter system and naming it "free stuff" then killing any noob stupid enough to take something out of it. Quite different from can-flipping and even it is OK outside starter systems.
Cipher Jones wrote:Quote:Problem is since ganking is a approved game mechanic and is perfectly legal how can it be considered griefing?
Because the definition that CCP posted directly states that it is.
1. Devoting a large amount of time.
2. Malicious.
3. not profiting.
Meets all of the conditions set by CCP. No where in the definition does it say the griefers mechanic has to be an exploit.
As said can-baiting noobs in starter systems is griefing, since it actually meets those criteria. The goon campaign in the ice fields on the other hand is clearly not, since they are doing it for resource denial and profit from it. It does cause severe sandy vaginas individually and therefore grief, but objectively it seems to be outside the rule you've quoted and therefore can't be considered greifing as CCP defines it.
CCPs rules and definitions are the ones that decide the issue and it must always remain so, since going by individual feelings of grief can't be enforcable in a reliable and predictable way that a rule needs to be. I'm not asking you to like CCPs interpretation or agree with it, but that's the only one that matters and IMO is better for EVE and the sandbox, than what you seem to be suggesting.