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Bansh Corva
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 22:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Everywhere I look I'm seeing people say how you need a pimped out pirate battleship or a faction fit tengu and the likes for running high sec incursions.
Really?
I would like to get into them at some point, but that's just not going to happen.
Then I was told the easiest way to get into it is through logistics, jump in a basilisk. So I looked into that and apparently I have to have Logistics 5. It kind of makes sense, I can't run 4 reps cap stable with only Logi 4 unless I have 2 cap transfers on me. Then I can run both transfers and all 4 reps and 2 cap transfers and be 96% cap stable.
Would fleets just laugh me off if I told them this and still insist on Logi 5?
Last question... Anybody reading this who runs Incursion fleets in high sec and is ok with this, and is happy to take me into a fleet as a newb to it, please let me know?
Many thanks. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
313
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 22:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bansh Corva wrote:Everywhere I look I'm seeing people say how you need a pimped out pirate battleship or a faction fit tengu and the likes for running high sec incursions.
Really?
I would like to get into them at some point, but that's just not going to happen.
Then I was told the easiest way to get into it is through logistics, jump in a basilisk. So I looked into that and apparently I have to have Logistics 5. It kind of makes sense, I can't run 4 reps cap stable with only Logi 4 unless I have 2 cap transfers on me. Then I can run both transfers and all 4 reps and 2 cap transfers and be 96% cap stable.
Would fleets just laugh me off if I told them this and still insist on Logi 5?
Last question... Anybody reading this who runs Incursion fleets in high sec and is ok with this, and is happy to take me into a fleet as a newb to it, please let me know?
Many thanks.
Because of contests. Fleets that get dragged down by noobs and cheapfits don't get paid, lol. |
Bansh Corva
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 22:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:
Because of contests. Fleets that get dragged down by noobs and cheapfits don't get paid, lol.
Ahh I think I do remember reading something on how the fleet who does the best gets the money, or something along those lines.
So you're saying I may as well just forget it until I can afford and fully kit out a pirate battleship or until I get logi 5?
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
313
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Posted - 2011.12.13 22:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bansh Corva wrote:Goose99 wrote:
Because of contests. Fleets that get dragged down by noobs and cheapfits don't get paid, lol.
Ahh I think I do remember reading something on how the fleet who does the best gets the money, or something along those lines. So you're saying I may as well just forget it until I can afford and fully kit out a pirate battleship or until I get logi 5?
Logi 5 is like 25 days. T3 is around 500 mil, failing that, CS is 150 mil and can still get fleets. |
Bansh Corva
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 22:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lol I'm closer to Logi 5 than Command Ships. Even so, the fact of the matter is still "You Must Be This Uber..." or it's just not happening.
That's what I was getting at.
It's ok, can't expect everybody to be able to do everything at once. |
Elindreal
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2011.12.13 22:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
logi IV is acceptable in a basi, not as much in a scimmy.
try some of the big public channels for fleets, yes, it will take time and you should always be wary. check your fc's employment history and such.
meet some people, make some friends (this is an mmo afterall) and finding a fleet becomes much easier without needing a pirate pimped battleship.
also keep tabs on which of the incursions are newest and oldest. the newest are usually the least populated. personally, when 1 highsec incursion is left up i don't even bother, the competition is too ridiculous. |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
179
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Posted - 2011.12.13 22:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bansh Corva wrote: I'm closer to Logi 5 than Command Ships.
A logi5, sensibly setup, basilisk is probably the most desirable ship in shield incursion fleets ... followed by a logi4 basilisk.
Wannabe DPS-deliverers, shiny or rusty, are usually dime-a-dozen in incursion areas and the weak-link is usually (not always) the availability of good logi support ... or good FCs.
Bansh Corva wrote: Even so, the fact of the matter is still "You Must Be This Uber..." or it's just not happening.
That's not a fact at all.
Like most everything in eve the better your skills are the more you're likely to be able to benefit / profit from an activity. Incursions, mostly requiring coordinated group efforts, are no exception.
Yes, there are uber-fleets of seven machariels, 1 webber loki, experienced FCs, three logis, and with perfect offgrid boosters but there are also fleets of less expensive ships out there running the sites. Of course those uber fleets are way better equipped to 'steal' sites, even when the less well equipped fleets have a considerable head-start.
Also you are always able to setup your own fleets and gather a bunch of like-minded folk around you. There are no shortage of options for all skill levels, it's just for you to choose to do what you want to do and get out there to do it.
Perhaps it would be unreasonable, though, to expect an FC to choose a lvl4 logi over a lvl5, or a maelstrom over a machariel. The FCs want their fleet to be as strong and as efficient as they can manage and usually choosing weaker ships or pilots, when better are available, does not achieve that.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Bansh Corva
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 22:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thank you both for the constructive info. Nobody has mentioned how difficult the sites really are though.
I'm going to keep my eye open for fleets. If the biggest risk involved is somebody else stealing the site then I'm not too worried about the fleet. I'm as happy to fail and learn as I am to succeed and earn. Unless it means losing a brand new Basi :P |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
313
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 23:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bansh Corva wrote:Thank you both for the constructive info. Nobody has mentioned how difficult the sites really are though.
I'm going to keep my eye open for fleets. If the biggest risk involved is somebody else stealing the site then I'm not too worried about the fleet. I'm as happy to fail and learn as I am to succeed and earn. Unless it means losing a brand new Basi :P
Oh yeah, on that note, mind the logi gankers. Somebody invites you to fleet. He flip a can, you cap chain them, get his canflip aggro, his friends warp in to gank your logi. Tears, lulz. |
Bansh Corva
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 23:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Oh yeah, on that note, mind the logi gankers. Somebody invites you to fleet. He flip a can, you cap chain them, get his canflip aggro, his friends warp in to gank your logi. Tears, lulz.
Hahaha sounds like fun, except being on the receiving end obviously.
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Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
68
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Posted - 2011.12.13 23:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
You need those ships for a few reasons:
1. People equate lots of money with skill. They figure if you can afford stupidly expensive ships and modules, you must have been playing for a while, and know what you're doing. (hint: they're wrong)
2. Blitzing. People want to blitz sites, so they can move in to more sites, and make money faster.
3. Related to blitzing, if the incursion is heavily populated, you will have to contest sites. Who is going to win, a fleet with 8 machariels, or a fleet with 8 brutix? |
Bansh Corva
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 23:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:You need those ships for a few reasons:
1. People equate lots of money with skill. They figure if you can afford stupidly expensive ships and modules, you must have been playing for a while, and know what you're doing. (hint: they're wrong)
2. Blitzing. People want to blitz sites, so they can move in to more sites, and make money faster.
3. Related to blitzing, if the incursion is heavily populated, you will have to contest sites. Who is going to win, a fleet with 8 machariels, or a fleet with 8 brutix?
All making complete sense. Except point 1 of course. |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
183
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Posted - 2011.12.13 23:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote: 1. People equate lots of money with skill. They figure if you can afford stupidly expensive ships and modules, you must have been playing for a while, and know what you're doing. (hint: they're wrong)
Dorian is correct in that: 1.A well skilled lower-class ship (e.g. maelstrom) may well be able to deliver more than a poorly skilled higher-class ship (e.g. machariel / vargur) and that fact may be hidden from recruiting FCs. Mind you, once someone is well skilled in a T1 ship they are usually also reasonably well skilled for related pirate ships. Altho, as Dorian suggests, the assumption is not perfect it is **generally** safe to correlate skill-intensive ships to intensively skilled pilot. Now I absolutely agree with the premise that shiney-ship does not correlate, at all, with knowing what you're doing. I fly a range of well equipped very shiney ships, but only recently did my first incursion as a DPS person. Despite having been in hundreds of incursions (as logi) I was a bit lost on where / when to focus my fire. Thankfully the FC had used me previously as logi so was happy to coddle my ineptitude for a while ... and my subsequent ability to easily swap from basi to mach just added to the flexibility within his fleet. 2.The ship that a player advertises is not necessarily the ship they are flying, or even that they can fly. If I wanted I could advertise myself as flying a T2 weapon / faction fitted nightmare and link that fit ingame ... even tho I can't even use a medium T1 laser. Generally, however, people are honest(ish) and those that are not are usually found out and word of their dishonesty spreads fast.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
313
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 23:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bansh Corva wrote:Dorian Wylde wrote:You need those ships for a few reasons:
1. People equate lots of money with skill. They figure if you can afford stupidly expensive ships and modules, you must have been playing for a while, and know what you're doing. (hint: they're wrong)
2. Blitzing. People want to blitz sites, so they can move in to more sites, and make money faster.
3. Related to blitzing, if the incursion is heavily populated, you will have to contest sites. Who is going to win, a fleet with 8 machariels, or a fleet with 8 brutix? All making complete sense. Except point 1 of course.
Point 3 is the only one that matters. 1 and 2 only stops stuck up elitists from taking you. 3 stops everyone. Those days, if your fleet isn't pimp, you don't get paid. |
Bansh Corva
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 23:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Substantia Nigra wrote: 2.The ship that a player advertises is not necessarily the ship they are flying, or even that they can fly. If I wanted I could advertise myself as flying a T2 weapon / faction fitted nightmare and link that fit ingame ... even tho I can't even use a medium T1 laser. Generally, however, people are honest(ish) and those that are not are usually found out and word of their dishonesty spreads fast.
So you're saying I might be able to get away with fitting my Mael with Meta4's and not waiting the last 9 days for large 5 to finish? :P |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
183
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Posted - 2011.12.14 00:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bansh Corva wrote:Substantia Nigra wrote: 2.The ship that a player advertises is not necessarily the ship they are flying...
So you're saying I might be able to get away with fitting my Mael with Meta4's and not waiting the last 9 days for large 5 to finish? :P
Nope, not saying that at all.
I do see maelstroms pretty regularly in incursion fleets but it's the rare day that a scout equipped maelstrom will be accepted over a T2 A/C equipped machariel / vargur. It's not rocket science, in general the better ships and better pilots will be preferred ... but we all have to start somewhere.
If you want 'in' on incursions and have the choice between offering a logi4 basilisk and a scout equipped maelstrom ... go with the basi. Logis are generally more in-demand, within both shiny and rusty fleets. If you absolutely **must** go DPS then offer the best you can, work the quieter of multiple hisec incursions, and be prepared to spend periods of time fleetless.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Bansh Corva
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 00:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
lol Thanks. Lots of good advice.
But...
Are High Sec Incusions difficult? |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
183
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 00:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Not for an appropriately equipped fleet.
Level 1 missions are difficult for the absolute noob player flying a noobship. Any incursion site is going to be difficult for a poorly prepared fleet. We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Elindreal
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 00:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bansh Corva wrote:
Are High Sec Incusions difficult?
fit a proper buffer tank with good resists and have logis whom are on the ball and do not disconnect at inopportune moments and no they are not difficult.
fit a local rep tank and be in a drake fleet with pitiful dps with split tank (both shield and armour ships) then yes, you will die as will your fleet. |
Bansh Corva
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 00:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Elindreal wrote:Bansh Corva wrote:
Are High Sec Incusions difficult?
fit a proper buffer tank with good resists and have logis whom are on the ball and do not disconnect at inopportune moments and no they are not difficult. fit a local rep tank and be in a drake fleet with pitiful dps with split tank (both shield and armour ships) then yes, you will die as will your fleet.
Now that is proper answer and made me grin, thank you :P
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Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2011.12.14 02:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Elindreal wrote:
fit a local rep tank and be in a drake fleet with pitiful dps with split tank (both shield and armour ships) then yes, you will die as will your fleet.
Anybody armour tanking a Drake deserves to lose their ship, its as simple as that.
Are high sec incursions difficult?
If you are solo, then yes, extremely difficult. If in a proper fleet, they are easy. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2011.12.14 04:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Bansh Corva wrote:Goose99 wrote:Oh yeah, on that note, mind the logi gankers. Somebody invites you to fleet. He flip a can, you cap chain them, get his canflip aggro, his friends warp in to gank your logi. Tears, lulz. Hahaha sounds like fun, except being on the receiving end obviously.
I smell one of the logi ganker alts .... That statement of yours kinda rules you out from all the proper fleets thankfully.
Good luck on your chosen path. |
Dek'athor
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2011.12.14 06:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Substantia Nigra wrote:
I do see maelstroms pretty regularly in incursion fleets but it's the rare day that a scout equipped maelstrom will be accepted over a T2 A/C equipped machariel / vargur.
A T1 sniper mael can get chosen over a T2 dps machariel. Sure, t1 mael it will deal less damage than the T2 variant, but if a FC is faced with the choice between a short range dps and a lower-damage sniper at a time when sniper numbers are low...the t1 sniper mael will get in.
But overall, logi is the more in demand ship. Logi 5 basi will get picked over logi 4, unless there is a shortage of logi at that time...then all logis are welcome.
The reason logi 5 is proffered in VG's for basis is they can go 5-1 (reps-energy transfers) and you can run the more difficult sites with 2 logis and have a bigger safety margin. In this arrangement the 5:1 basi needs another a logi 5 partener or cap chain fails. A logi4 one will get turned down if the 5:1 logi can't be arsed to refit to a 2 energy transfers config. |
Spineker
58
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Posted - 2011.12.14 07:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Run a few and become a FC. Good FC's always have a good fleet. |
Eru GoEller
State War Academy Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2011.12.14 10:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Spineker wrote:Run a few and become a FC. Good FC's always have a good fleet.
Good for you and if your that good, CCP will fix the respawn rate in Incursions. We can't eat the cake and still have it now, can we? |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
182
|
Posted - 2011.12.14 11:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Eru GoEller wrote:Spineker wrote:Run a few and become a FC. Good FC's always have a good fleet. Good for you and if your that good, CCP will fix the respawn rate in Incursions. We can't eat the cake and still have it now, can we?
Lol ... you just wait and see what CCP has prepared for us next time incursions are gonna get an overhaul. I am afraid you'll be deeply disappointed quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 19:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Incursion are very easy because they're totally predictable. You know what's coming so you know what to bring to not lose ships.
Making a lot of ISK in Incursions is harder though. There are always people trying to maximize their income and for incursions that means flying with 2 logistics, preferably scimitars in a shield fleet and the highest damage ships you can get, machariels, nightmares vindicators and bhaalgorns and 1 loki for webs. And those ships are pimped.(I don't fly armor but there are some very nice armorfleet setups also.)
The crew I fly with goes as far as to require an eveboard check to look whether the player joining has the skills to not only board a ship but also fly it effectively as in: T2 guns and high gunnery support skills. Also every Battleship is required to have a flight of rep drones.
This way we do site fast. we win competed sites and are even so successful that members rather sit on a waitlist for a spot to come up in our fleets then go do a random fleet.
Is this elitist? Some might say that but that's usually people who have bad skills flying the wrong ship. Is this just trying to be as effective as possible doing said incursions? Yeah, I think so.
In short, incursions are not hard. But the people flying the best ships will get spots the easiest and the people with less skills will have to sit around and wait more.
Last but not least: incursions can be so lucrative that making a fuss about whether or not to get a pimped out pirate factionship is just a discussion whether you're just cheap or not. |
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
189
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Posted - 2011.12.14 23:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
I agree with you Sjugar.
During my most recent incursion-fest (I usually run a few days of incursions and then head off to do something else for a while) I got in into a couple uber-fleets along those lines ... in logi, webber, and DPS roles. Those fleets are very, very efficient, highly competitive, and often a lot of fun.
What really impressed me was how much of a headstart we could give another fleet and yet still 'steal' the site from them. While that was in part due to the uber-shininess of our fleets I think the main factor was the very good FCs who knew their stuff, worked their team well, and could quickly adapt to take the best approach for our ever-changing circumstances.
Perhaps I am just easily pleased but calls like this impress me: "Change of plan. Drone-***** leave oysters*, take the Tamas ... and designate your target so webbers can assist. DPS ignore Deltole and take damaged Auga then tag 2. Logis bump those machs."
This fleet competed many sites and lost not a one, even with other fleet getting quite a considerable headstart. It was shiny, it was elitist, and it was a lot of fun.
* A giveaway perhaps but this FC got some merciless teasing about his pronunciation of eyster. We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians Blazing Angels Alliance
184
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Posted - 2011.12.14 23:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Substantia Nigra wrote:I agree with you Sjugar.
During my most recent incursion-fest (I usually run a few days of incursions and then head off to do something else for a while) I got in into a couple uber-fleets along those lines ... in logi, webber, and DPS roles. Those fleets are very, very efficient, highly competitive, and often a lot of fun.
What really impressed me was how much of a headstart we could give another fleet and yet still 'steal' the site from them. While that was in part due to the uber-shininess of our fleets I think the main factor was the very good FCs who knew their stuff, worked their team well, and could quickly adapt to take the best approach for our ever-changing circumstances.
Perhaps I am just easily pleased but calls like this impress me: "Change of plan. Drone-***** leave oysters*, take the Tamas ... and designate your target so webbers can assist. DPS ignore Deltole and take damaged Auga then tag 2. Logis bump those machs."
This fleet competed many sites and lost not a one, even with other fleet getting quite a considerable headstart. It was shiny, it was elitist, and it was a lot of fun.
* A giveaway perhaps but this FC got some merciless teasing about his pronunciation of eyster.
Hah - we always call eysturs for oysters in summer First rule about summer ... you don't talk about summer! quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
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Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Narwhals Ate My Duck
18
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Posted - 2011.12.15 05:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
HS Incursions are not difficult at all. They are a **** easy method of printing isk and driving up plex prices.
Logi 4 is fine for incursions but if you are a logi pilot, you really should train it to 5.
The reason people fly multi billion ISK faction BSs is that they make a crap load of ISK off incursions with no risk of ever losing a ship unless they are total failtards.
Incursions suffer greatly from elitism and you will get shunned for flying T1 ships or T2 fits. This is not because youre not going to be effective, just mainly because incursion runners are basically just HS carebears who can now afford shiny things and think it makes them 'super pro' and that you are by definition a noob for not spending that extra 2bil on your vindicator to make the fleet run 10 micro seconds faster.
Incursions are an excellent way to make isk for sure, but once you have enough isk, go find something interesting to do in eve and some non incursion runners to do it with. |
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