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Atomic Atty
Tax Evasion Obviously
0
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Posted - 2016.01.02 14:40:37 -
[1] - Quote
Are adaptive hardeners ever better than the alternatives yet? Ive been off and on the game many times since it released and since tey cane out, they have never proven valuable. Why havent they been balanced to be a good pvp option, or removed as clutter? Do they get used at all? |
Hengle Teron
Order In Disorder Virtus Crusade Protectorate
59505
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Posted - 2016.01.02 14:46:48 -
[2] - Quote
Given they don't get stacking penalties with other hardeners, yes they are good. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
593
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Posted - 2016.01.02 14:53:43 -
[3] - Quote
The Reactive armor hardener is pretty insane actually. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
133
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Posted - 2016.01.02 14:56:28 -
[4] - Quote
I've been using it myself, and it adapts very quickly and can redo your resists to a fairly dramatic extent.
Considering I can set up a PvE Dominix with one of those Hardeners and rely on it to adjust my tank against any NPCs I encounter in missions, I'd say it's a pretty good module.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
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Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
265
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Posted - 2016.01.02 18:56:07 -
[5] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:I've been using it myself, and it adapts very quickly and can redo your resists to a fairly dramatic extent.
Considering I can set up a PvE Dominix with one of those Hardeners and rely on it to adjust my tank against any NPCs I encounter in missions, I'd say it's a pretty good module. Pretty much this. I love how much of a lazy man module it is. One of these in a mission ship gives you great tank for little cap and very little fuss.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3609
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Posted - 2016.01.02 19:36:51 -
[6] - Quote
Extremely cap inefficient, generally too slow to react to be worthwhile in PvP on subcapitals, etc. No, I don't think its worth it, and any fit using one can usually be improved by replacing it. |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
265
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Posted - 2016.01.02 20:06:44 -
[7] - Quote
As above though. I wouldn't use it in pvp. It has a pretty major drawback. The module measures the type of damage incoming and how often; it does NOT measure the amount. So if someone drops EM drones on your face, your reactive will crank up the EM because you're getting hit by EM 5 times every 4 seconds. Leaving your explosive open for the 5k volley of explosive from the 1400s.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17300
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Posted - 2016.01.02 21:09:50 -
[8] - Quote
Atomic Atty wrote:Are adaptive hardeners ever better than the alternatives yet? Ive been off and on the game many times since it released and since they came out, they have never proven valuable. Why havent they been balanced to be a good pvp option, or removed as clutter? Do they get used at all?
u wot m8?
A mod that gives you +30% to each resist and you ask if it's worth it yet?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
68
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Posted - 2016.01.02 21:27:05 -
[9] - Quote
They're nice for some PvE fits. If you've got Guristas or Caldari rats throwing nothing but Scourge missiles at you, the RAH will be stronger than a tech 2 active hardener, but they do go through cap like crazy. If if rats like to throw even two types of damage at you, it's not nearly as strong.
Once you get armor compensation skills, RAH looks a lot less attractive. Tech 2 adaptive plating does nearly the same job for no cap when everything is getting shot at you.
A signature :o
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2001
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Posted - 2016.01.02 21:44:16 -
[10] - Quote
The reactive hardener is awesome in special PvP fits. It's worth to train the skill to IV if you armor or hull tank.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3609
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Posted - 2016.01.02 21:52:48 -
[11] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:The reactive hardener is awesome in special PvP fits. It's worth to train the skill to IV if you armor or hull tank.
In all of those fits you're more neut-resistant and have a comparable resist profile that stays solid and can't be manipulated by simply replacing it with an EANM II. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1031
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Posted - 2016.01.02 22:58:32 -
[12] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Atomic Atty wrote:Are adaptive hardeners ever better than the alternatives yet? Ive been off and on the game many times since it released and since they came out, they have never proven valuable. Why havent they been balanced to be a good pvp option, or removed as clutter? Do they get used at all? u wot m8? A mod that gives you +30% to each resist and you ask if it's worth it yet?
I think he's talking about reactive hardeners and not adaptive invuls. The problem is he's mixing the names of two modules so we can either assume he's talking about reactive hardeners or adaptive invuls. We'll need OP to clear this out if this is a mistake on his part or if he subtly trolling us with misnamed modules since this is GD and not NCQA.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2001
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Posted - 2016.01.02 23:24:53 -
[13] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:The reactive hardener is awesome in special PvP fits. It's worth to train the skill to IV if you armor or hull tank. In all of those fits you're more neut-resistant and have a comparable resist profile that stays solid and can't be manipulated by simply replacing it with an EANM II. A second EANM will stack, the reactive hardener will not (except with DMC). So it's not a question of choice, but a combination to get max resists.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3609
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Posted - 2016.01.03 00:34:15 -
[14] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:The reactive hardener is awesome in special PvP fits. It's worth to train the skill to IV if you armor or hull tank. In all of those fits you're more neut-resistant and have a comparable resist profile that stays solid and can't be manipulated by simply replacing it with an EANM II. A second EANM will stack, the reactive hardener will not (except with DMC). So it's not a question of choice, but a combination to get max resists.
A second EANM can't be screwed completely by a quick ammo swap or neuting. The EANM also outperforms it when facing all 4 damage types at once, even with stacking penalties. A very good chunk of my minmatar ships do all 4 damage types at once, depleted uranium is fun. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2881
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Posted - 2016.01.03 02:13:17 -
[15] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote: A second EANM will stack, the reactive hardener will not (except with DMC). So it's not a question of choice, but a combination to get max resists.
Assuming good skills, EANM II's are 24/25% omni. Even with stacking penalty they are still about 20% on the second one. Making them higher average resists than the RAH. The RAH comes into it on the third resit module, and can replace the DCU since it has stacking penalties with DCU's interestingly enough. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2001
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Posted - 2016.01.03 08:04:15 -
[16] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:The reactive hardener is awesome in special PvP fits. It's worth to train the skill to IV if you armor or hull tank. In all of those fits you're more neut-resistant and have a comparable resist profile that stays solid and can't be manipulated by simply replacing it with an EANM II. A second EANM will stack, the reactive hardener will not (except with DMC). So it's not a question of choice, but a combination to get max resists. A very good chunk of my minmatar ships do all 4 damage types at once, depleted uranium is fun. Good to know.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
266
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Posted - 2016.01.03 15:35:26 -
[17] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:They're nice for some PvE fits. If you've got Guristas or Caldari rats throwing nothing but Scourge missiles at you, the RAH will be stronger than a tech 2 active hardener, but they do go through cap like crazy. If if rats like to throw even two types of damage at you, it's not nearly as strong. Even 2 types of damage it's an un-stack-penalised 30% so pretty worth it imho.
Akirei Scytale wrote: A second EANM can't be screwed completely by a quick ammo swap or neuting. The EANM also outperforms it when facing all 4 damage types at once, even with stacking penalties. A very good chunk of my minmatar ships do all 4 damage types at once, depleted uranium is fun.
A quick ammo swap if you're paying attention in the RAH ship can be mitigated by "turning it off and on again." The resist profile resets to 15% across all four if the module is deactivated, reducing the number of cycles to match the new incoming damage.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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Atomic Atty
Tax Evasion Obviously
0
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Posted - 2016.01.03 16:56:50 -
[18] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Malcanis wrote:Atomic Atty wrote:Are adaptive hardeners ever better than the alternatives yet? Ive been off and on the game many times since it released and since they came out, they have never proven valuable. Why havent they been balanced to be a good pvp option, or removed as clutter? Do they get used at all? u wot m8? A mod that gives you +30% to each resist and you ask if it's worth it yet? I think he's talking about reactive hardeners and not adaptive invuls. The problem is he's mixing the names of two modules so we can either assume he's talking about reactive hardeners or adaptive invuls. We'll need OP to clear this out if this is a mistake on his part or if he subtly trolling us with misnamed modules since this is GD and not NCQA.
Ya woops. Im talking about the ones that actually adapt/react which I think are called reactive. Invulns are very poorly names as adaptive. They dont do that at all lol. |
Atomic Atty
Tax Evasion Obviously
0
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Posted - 2016.01.03 17:10:11 -
[19] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:As above though. I wouldn't use it in pvp. It has a pretty major drawback. The module measures the type of damage incoming and how often; it does NOT measure the amount. So if someone drops EM drones on your face, your reactive will crank up the EM because you're getting hit by EM 5 times every 4 seconds. Leaving your explosive open for the 5k volley of explosive from the 1400s.
Is this true? I think I recall something like this being the issue ages ago. Why have they not fixed this? Clearly if you are going to have a module adapt to resist, it should adapt to resist the type doing the highest dps.
Thanks for all of the discussion. My conclusion is that they are still useless, unless you try desperately to build an entire fit around them on just the right ship for a very specific and uninteresting or even unnecessary purpose. This module should just be pruned out. I van see their difficulty with it. If they make it decent, it could violently disrupt the use of every other resist module, and I think that generally resist modules, as they are, are well balanced in terms of slot consumption and combat effect. |
Memphis Baas
883
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Posted - 2016.01.03 21:26:16 -
[20] - Quote
Atomic Atty wrote:My conclusion is that they are still useless.
As they've been trying to say, useless = "absolutely no use whatsoever," and only a Sith deals in absolutes.
So, either wrong forum or there's a use for them somewhere.
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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3611
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Posted - 2016.01.03 22:05:24 -
[21] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Atomic Atty wrote:My conclusion is that they are still useless. As they've been trying to say, useless = "absolutely no use whatsoever," and only a Sith deals in absolutes. So, either wrong forum or there's a use for them somewhere.
I can definitely see PvP use for them on capitals. But in large groups, its generally much more effective to just refit hardeners during the fight in those fleets.
For subcap PvP, its a little sliver of utility at the cost of several disadvantages.
For PvE, you know whats going to be shot at you so it is in all cases a lazy bandaid. |
Atomic Atty
Tax Evasion Obviously
0
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Posted - 2016.01.03 22:59:18 -
[22] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Atomic Atty wrote:My conclusion is that they are still useless. As they've been trying to say, useless = "absolutely no use whatsoever," and only a Sith deals in absolutes. So, either wrong forum or there's a use for them somewhere. It's bad practice to quote someone without letting them finish their sentence, especually if the rest of it weakens your complaint about it. My use of the word useless is definitely fueled by the dark side though. This module makes me angry, and the word useless if intended to be offensive! Lol |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2881
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Posted - 2016.01.04 01:47:17 -
[23] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote: I can definitely see PvP use for them on capitals. But in large groups, its generally much more effective to just refit hardeners during the fight in those fleets.
For subcap PvP, its a little sliver of utility at the cost of several disadvantages.
For PvE, you know whats going to be shot at you so it is in all cases a lazy bandaid.
1. Some sites you don't know what's going to be shot at you. Some have variety. 2. PvP risk, setting all your resists for PvE is what makes people 'helpless' when they get caught by a PvPer, who is usually set to take advantage of the resist holes that fitting for the standard rats in the area make. 3. Running multiple sites, for example exploration without docking. 4. No combat refitting with a weapons timer soon. |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
266
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Posted - 2016.01.04 13:17:54 -
[24] - Quote
Atomic Atty wrote:Moonlit Raid wrote:As above though. I wouldn't use it in pvp. It has a pretty major drawback. The module measures the type of damage incoming and how often; it does NOT measure the amount. So if someone drops EM drones on your face, your reactive will crank up the EM because you're getting hit by EM 5 times every 4 seconds. Leaving your explosive open for the 5k volley of explosive from the 1400s. Is this true? I think I recall something like this being the issue ages ago. Why have they not fixed this? Clearly if you are going to have a module adapt to resist, it should adapt to resist the type doing the highest dps. Thanks for all of the discussion. My conclusion is that they are still useless, unless you try desperately to build an entire fit around them on just the right ship for a very specific and uninteresting or even unnecessary purpose. This module should just be pruned out. I van see their difficulty with it. If they make it decent, it could violently disrupt the use of every other resist module, and I think that generally resist modules, as they are, are well balanced in terms of slot consumption and combat effect.
Personally I don't mind this being the case because if you notice your opponent is using a RAH, it's a good counter.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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