| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
   |
Posted - 2016.01.07 03:41:16 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to discuss the mobility (or lack thereof) of our beloved, OP and long range automated sidekicks.
We've all been there, 70km off our sentries trying to figure if warping out and back would be faster than slowboating. We have also experienced the dreaded slight slowboat juuuust far enough to scoop four and leave one 0.5 km too far. Finally, we have all attempted to burn at our broskis in the heat of battle and managed to save three while dooming the last two to the wretched enemy cargoholds. In any case, should sentries receive some sort of mobility buff? I will list a couple ideas with their pros and cons, feel free to contribute your opinion.
In order of most extreme to subtle;
1. Move like heavy drones for positioning, in any direction or send to orbit "x", player or object
PROS
- Easy positioning, running away and scooping.
- Easier time keeping target at optimal.
CONS
- Tracking issues while moving.
- Probably too OP, especially since lots of people already find the hulls mainly using them to be needing nerfs.
- Would probably need to get their HPs nerfed hard to balance.
2. Able to move like heavy drones only if recalled and command can not be cancelled, stationary otherwise
PROS
- Easier to scoop at the end of a fight.
- Easier to swap in the middle of a fight instead of abandoning.
CONS
- Could possibly be abused by abandoning drones, otherwise ship is committed with no DPS until they are scooped or you warp out.
- The argument "I am an expert on game balance and they are balanced to be stationary in the first place".
3. Orbit owner's ship only
PROS
- Could be balanced by the lack of MWDs, meaning they become stationary if you pull too much range using your own.
- Makes slowboating and being able to scoop while aligned possible.
- Makes scooping stationary sentries easier simply by getting in the vicinity close enough.
CONS
- Another command needs to be added if you want them to be stationary right away.
- Difficult to "kite away" the DPS of enemy sentries.
4. Only slowboat back if scoop command is given less than "x" (5, 10, w/e...) kms away
PROS
- Easier to scoop sentries without affecting game balance much.
CONS
- ??? "Sentries never have and never will move because... Reasons" argument.
Here we go!
|
Iain Cariaba
2292
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 05:42:40 -
[2] - Quote
No.
You want mobile, high damage drones, use heavies.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
771
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 06:08:08 -
[3] - Quote
Nope. Not the worst idea, but like Iain Cariaba said, use heavies if you want your drones to have engines strapped to their asses. If you choose to use sentries, either stay with them and loose some maneuverability or burn away and maintain active maneuverability at the risk of loosing them if you need to bail/swap drones/etc. now rather than later.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
|
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 09:11:59 -
[4] - Quote
What about a sentry drones teleporter requiring spool-up of like 30-60 seconds?
|
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
609
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 11:27:48 -
[5] - Quote
Just use heavies? We don't want invincible sentry guns that sit +70km out and kills everything and then easily scooped to safety, way too overpowered. |
permion
Offworld Trading Company
31
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 13:10:43 -
[6] - Quote
If your drones are getting in your way, and keeping you from launching drones that are fast/damage type/whatever enough. You have the option the abandon them. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
727
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 14:05:36 -
[7] - Quote
No, hang around where you drop your drones, abandon them and go back later to pick them up or do not use sentries. Based on situation any or all of these represent the only options you need.
And yes OP I am a drones pilot and to be honest we do not need the additional hate this would bring about. |
Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation
Care Factor
130
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 14:15:08 -
[8] - Quote
how about this:
They get to move at 250 m/s, but only if recalled to the drone bay (return to drone bay option) and they stop shooting and can't do anything until re-deployed.
This way, drone boats get a bit of a quality of life improvement (sentries left at a distance can make their way back to your drone bay) but they don't gain any useful combat mobility and this can't be used for re-positioning drones during combat (they can't shoot until they are deployed again.)
Cedric
|
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
249
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 16:24:57 -
[9] - Quote
If this was for PvE only, I'd support it. The problem with the idea comes with PvP. It might work if sentries orbited around the player's ship but didn't fire as long as you were moving. But you'd need drawbacks like that to make the idea viable.
Iain Cariaba wrote:You want mobile, high damage drones, use heavies.
Heavies are slow and would consistently miss Godzilla.
I can has blogging skills!
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4291
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 17:48:46 -
[10] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:No.
You want mobile, high damage drones, use heavies.
This. Combining the range and mobility, even the slow mobility of heavy drones would make heavies largely irrelevant.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
|
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
4291
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 17:50:37 -
[11] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:What about a sentry drones teleporter requiring spool-up of like 30-60 seconds?
No.
Sentries are already pretty powerful certain class of ships.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:14:15 -
[12] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:No.
You want mobile, high damage drones, use heavies. This. Combining the range and mobility, even the slow mobility of heavy drones would make heavies largely irrelevant.
Not exactly though, sentries don't track as well as heavies when the target is too close. You could not just replace heavies by sentries for your drone "brawler" setups.
And for the record, I am not necessarily advocating sentries need more mobility. I am simply exploring the idea and am curious to hear some arguments about whether they should or not, and why.
The game will evolve one day and the meta will change, it is quite reasonable to expect sentries to be revisited and rebalanced at some point. If we consider them as the primary sniper option for drone users, their mobility will one day be revisited since that is one of their main attributes (which is currently 0 m/s at all times).
|
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:16:51 -
[13] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:What about a sentry drones teleporter requiring spool-up of like 30-60 seconds? No. Sentries are already pretty powerful certain class of ships.
Ok, what makes them so powerful?
|
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 22:19:28 -
[14] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:Just use heavies? We don't want invincible sentry guns that sit +70km out and kills everything and then easily scooped to safety, way too overpowered.
What makes them invincible? Do they engage from too far, have too much HP, do too much DPS?
All these attributes can be adjusted to maintain their overall effectiveness.
|
Iain Cariaba
2305
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 23:13:29 -
[15] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:All these attributes can be adjusted to maintain their overall effectiveness.
They don't need adjusted, just use heavies.
In fact, heavies do more damage than sentries and have better tracking at closer ranges. The only down side to using heavies vs. sentries is the travel time of heavies.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:26:50 -
[16] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:All these attributes can be adjusted to maintain their overall effectiveness. They don't need adjusted, just use heavies. In fact, heavies do more damage than sentries and have better tracking at closer ranges. The only down side to using heavies vs. sentries is the travel time of heavies.
1. If they get their mobility revisited, then perhaps optimals, HP and DPS should be rebalanced.
2. We agree heavies do more damage and are meant to be used at closer ranges. However, it does not mean sentries couldn't be slightly easier to scoop or position.
3. Again, how would sentries necessarily be too OP even if they had but a slight mobility improvement? I don't see being able to scoop within 5 km instead of 2.5 km as a major game breaking change, for instance.
|
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
360
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:29:17 -
[17] - Quote
Just to **** everyone off.
30 second anchor time before Sentries can shoot. 30 second unanchor before they can move again.
This means that Sentries can't be scooped in a hurry if they start taking heat. |
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 00:50:48 -
[18] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Just to **** everyone off.
30 second anchor time before Sentries can shoot. 30 second unanchor before they can move again.
This means that Sentries can't be scooped in a hurry if they start taking heat.
Hey if it saves me 2 mins of warping out and back, why not lol?
|
Iain Cariaba
2306
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:03:58 -
[19] - Quote
Thor Kerrigan wrote:I don't see being able to scoop within 5 km instead of 2.5 km as a major game breaking change, for instance.
Of course you don't. People with bad ideas never see their ideas as bad.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
elitatwo
Eve Minions
The-Company
1021
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:21:43 -
[20] - Quote
Linna Excel wrote:...Heavies are slow and would consistently miss Godzilla.
Just out of curioucity but over a year ago all moving drones got a nice mobility buff and two Gallente ships at the time could and still can make heavy drones reach ludacris speed.
I don't about you but when my Preator II's go about 4200m/s I call that fast, don't you?
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
|
|
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
1192
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 02:39:47 -
[21] - Quote
I've thought about this before..
What if sentries had something like an un-anchoring.
When you recalled them, they had a 10-20 sec window in which they were repacking.
Once repacked, they cannot fire, but are able to move at approx. 1k m/s. |
Iain Cariaba
2308
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 03:11:18 -
[22] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Linna Excel wrote:...Heavies are slow and would consistently miss Godzilla. Just out of curioucity but over a year ago all moving drones got a nice mobility buff and two Gallente ships at the time could and still can make heavy drones reach ludacris speed. I don't about you but when my Preator II's go about 4200m/s I call that fast, don't you?
And as far as missing Godzilla, well I've used heavies quite extensively, and you'd be amazed what a single omni-directional tracking link with a tracking script can do.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
854
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 03:58:03 -
[23] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:how about this:
They get to move at 250 m/s, but only if recalled to the drone bay (return to drone bay option) and they stop shooting and can't do anything until re-deployed.
This way, drone boats get a bit of a quality of life improvement (sentries left at a distance can make their way back to your drone bay) but they don't gain any useful combat mobility and this can't be used for re-positioning drones during combat (they can't shoot until they are deployed again.)
I'd be ok with that.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
117
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 12:04:29 -
[24] - Quote
Just came in my mind:
Keep sentry as is.
For mobile mode, deploy sentries in free turret hardpoints and reduce sentry effects(damage, tracking, range, etc) to 75% |
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 16:59:43 -
[25] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Thor Kerrigan wrote:I don't see being able to scoop within 5 km instead of 2.5 km as a major game breaking change, for instance. Of course you don't. People with bad ideas never see their ideas as bad.
I rather have ideas which can be subjectively good or bad as opposed to none at all.
Care to elaborate on the actual points I made in that post? Your reply seems to lack the meat around the bone.
|
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
649
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 17:14:01 -
[26] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Linna Excel wrote:...Heavies are slow and would consistently miss Godzilla. Just out of curioucity but over a year ago all moving drones got a nice mobility buff and two Gallente ships at the time could and still can make heavy drones reach ludacris speed. I don't about you but when my Preator II's go about 4200m/s I call that fast, don't you?
With the right mids/lows for sure. You can also boost Sentries to engage and hit at 150km... One is meant to travel up close and deal higher DPS, the latter to snipe around with minimal moving.
I can give a couple examples where the absolute lack of any mobility affect sentry drones users;
- Trying to orbit one of them at 500m, you tend to get out of scoop range of 1-2 which honestly, hardly is a feature to provide "balance". I suppose you can drop a can and orbit it instead, but that's more of annoyance than anything.
- Impossible to deploy sentries and remain aligned while keeping them in scoop range. You could argue this balances them, but I think slowcats are more of an issue than this and the subcaps suffer more here.
- Fight is over, time to scoop... The ships using them are usually not your mobile interceptors in the first place. You might not notice this as too much of an issue using an Ishtar, but anything slower (like a Dominix) tends to under-utilize the full potential of sentries due to them almost being lost if you move out of scoop range.
|
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2846
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 17:37:31 -
[27] - Quote
Tech 3 Tactical Sentry Drones.
In navigation mode they can move back to your ship.
In defense mode they can self-repair to defend themselves while you send help.
In sniper mode they can act like normal sentry drones.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
|
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
650
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 18:02:26 -
[28] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Tech 3 Tactical Sentry Drones.
In navigation mode they can move back to your ship.
In defense mode they can self-repair to defend themselves while you send help.
In sniper mode they can act like normal sentry drones.
77-80 mil a pop?
|
elitatwo
Eve Minions
The-Company
1022
|
Posted - 2016.01.08 20:23:54 -
[29] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:elitatwo wrote:Linna Excel wrote:...Heavies are slow and would consistently miss Godzilla. Just out of curioucity but over a year ago all moving drones got a nice mobility buff and two Gallente ships at the time could and still can make heavy drones reach ludacris speed. I don't about you but when my Preator II's go about 4200m/s I call that fast, don't you? And as far as missing Godzilla, well I've used heavies quite extensively, and you'd be amazed what a single omni-directional tracking link with a tracking script can do.
Hehe, so you know what I mean.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
|
Thor Kerrigan
The High and Mighty
Carebear Abortion Clinic
655
|
Posted - 2016.01.14 07:39:23 -
[30] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:I've thought about this before..
What if sentries had something like an un-anchoring.
When you recalled them, they had a 10-20 sec window in which they were repacking.
Once repacked, they cannot fire, but are able to move at approx. 1k m/s.
Anchoring/unanchoring modes could make them more vulnerable, similar to how sniper fits usually have low tank. Could maybe even expand that vulnerability window for when they are in move mode.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |