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John Thorlake
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Posted - 2007.01.25 13:11:00 -
[1]
As usual this game will run on a 80 - 20 rule as any sytem implementation always does.
80% will like it and 20% wont. It is just as easy as that. It is simply impossible
to satisfy everyone unless we all are the same simple minded people, which we are not.
But some things I find really amusing.
1. People in the game that complain about gettin beaten due to overwhelming (read unfair) odds.
And they instantly starts calling the other party a chicken and cowards etc.
Fact is, they are just abit smarter and better at tactics than you are.
Have you EVER in any RL war heard of things such as fair play and honest and other such cozy things?
No way. If you are smarter or simply outnumber your apponent you will win.
So please stop complaining when getting shot by superior numbers and cry about, "If it where only you and me I would have won".
What a load of crap. Fact is you where probably in the wrong place all alone doing risky stuff.
The world is not a fair and honest place, why should EvE be? It is full of real world people.
2. There are also people that want us to change the way the game works so that they may do what they please
whenever they please without any risk of loss of material or property.
CCP has given us the tools of war and death so that we may apply them as we please.
As in real life I am also able to plan my actions. And I know I simply cant do what I want or go wherever I want to go. Why not in EvE??
When I do stupid things like mine in a low sec area by myself without any backup or a third eye in local, I should not whine or complain if I get jumped by pirates just because I want to do it in peace.
Or fly through an most likely Camped area without intel or checking the map first just because I want to.
That is called taking a calculated risk.
And as with all calculated risks I can plan and prepare for it so that I increase the chance of getting through it alive if I HAVE to go through there.
Or just gun it and hope for the best.
I have played this game for some years now and have lost alot of ships.(set aside all petitioned ones due to game malfunctions)
Looking back, had I been able to get out of all of those situations alive if I had done things differently or been somewhat smarter?
In almost 100% of the cases YES.
So why whine? I dont get it.
It is the risks and the risk taking that make this game interesting for most of us and I for one like to have a place where I really have to take responsibility for my own actions.
Why blame someone else for my own risktaking? Are you mad?
If you dont want to take risks, CCP has made that possible to you. It is called empire. Stay there!
And a little final point on loggers.
Some people, again people who dont want to take responsibility for their own actions, claim that logging off and in that way escaping death is game mechanics and all of us that think this is just something for unmature people, are all whiners.
I myself think that a tweak actually could be in order.
If my action is to "End the game/my session" which I think the shortcut really stands for. That is what should happen, but with a slight delay with say 5 minutes to be certain I did not just crash my klient.
My ship stays in place and waits for my glorious return. If I dont, it dissappears after 5 minutes.
In that way, if I want to relog into the game after a restart I would end up exacly where I was at the time of the crash no problem.
So that I can be responsible for my own actions. Ending my game in a bubble camp will be a bad thing to do.
Ending the game in a station is a smart thing to do.
Ah the irony in logic.
Basically what I want to say with all of this is: GROW UP it is only a game for crying out loud!
You dont die for real, trust me on this one peeps!
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.25 14:42:00 -
[2]
Nice re-hash of this month's topics.
Every month on the EvE forums there are two topics of interest. This month they are logoffs and repopulating LowSec. This is a good attempt to cover both while trying not to seem like you opened thread #15,976 on them.
The door swings both ways on every topic. Logging off to escape bubbles and gate camps is an exploit of the mechanics of the game, but the constant griping about getting shot at while inside missions, ganked in High Sec, small corps being wardecced for no personal or financial gain except kill board ratings have valid points.
Before you start griping about people complaining about losing their ships to people shooting at them you have to also shut up about trying to lure more people into LowSec/0.0 to shoot at. There are plenty of people in the EvE universe that want to be just like they are in real life; they want to go about their business in a relatively peaceful fashion and not hav eto look over their shoulders all the time watching their back.
I find it funny that the primary logoff/logon people are the inhabitants of those same areas that gripe because people won't shoot back or enter LoSec. Ever think about the fact the true CareBears every gripes about aren't in 0.0 to get caught in a bubble?
<----------->
MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests....
LowSec != NoSec
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Andargor theWise
Disbelievers of Fate
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Posted - 2007.01.25 14:48:00 -
[3]
Point 1 is valid. I however stopped reading after the first phrase of Point 2.
I have no tolerance for the "my playstyle > your playstyle" mentality.
-
Got grief?
Revelations MySQL Database |
Roue
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.25 15:37:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Andargor theWise
Point 1 is valid. I however stopped reading after the first phrase of Point 2.
I have no tolerance for the "my playstyle > your playstyle" mentality.
He's not saying that. He's saying Eve is a sandbox, tools provided, do with them what you want. That there should NOT be rules for ANY playstyle. Only the products of the choices of the thousands of people who exist in the sandbox. The counter argument he was attacking are the people THAT DO SAY my playstyle (lvl 4missions low sec no risk) is > your playstyle (killing people).
Maybe you should have read more..
As for the OP, good post. I think that the problem is just like you said. People don't understand this is real life. But that is secondly exactly where they are right. Personal responsibility is dead in the real world. Look mah I just poured a cup of boiling hot joe on jim and the twins, I'll never have children. The label didn't say Hot. or HOT large enough in letters.
Just face it. Only thing the whining about personal responsibility is short to make it real life (in eve) is lawsuits.
This is my opinion not that of privateer corp, alliance, its member corps, affiliates, minions, pet animals, ex girlfriends, former roommates, 3rd grade gym teachers, late relatives, ontime relatives, |
Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2007.01.25 15:49:00 -
[5]
****ty post....Title misleading....But turns out to be another one of this months BS post.
So like the title says there John, lets have all your information:
E-mail
Phone#
Mail address
Place of employment
Time to be held accountable for your own actions Hombre....
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Egil Kolsto
Caldari
Collwood Collective
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Posted - 2007.01.25 16:03:00 -
[6]
Originally by: John Thorlake
Have you EVER in any RL war heard of things such as fair play and honest and other such cozy things?
No way. If you are smarter or simply outnumber your apponent you will win.
Well, if you take this to the extreme, blobs on both sides cause the node to crash. Please point me to where this happnes in real life? Eve is a good enough game with good enough mechanics without pulling the whole "real world" into this. You can't compare real world war with how it is done in Eve, so kindly refrain from doing so!
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Shabesa
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Posted - 2007.01.25 16:33:00 -
[7]
1. Comparission
RL:Eve is getting old. Not that its age is making it any more valid. Try something fresh ... dunno, tomatoes? Would at least have a chance of being amusing.
2. Whining about whining
Wilderness of mirrors.
3. Tools
- posting on forums is one of them
- ability not to read selected posts is another
- ctrl-q also
Details available on request. Additional fees may apply.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.01.25 16:35:00 -
[8]
TL:DR
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Drone users unite! Support drone whinage |
Nye Jaran
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Posted - 2007.01.25 17:28:00 -
[9]
Holy ****, Eve is real life? I need to ask my CEO for a raise then!
Seriously, Eve is a GAME. I play to have fun. I am essentially what most call a carebear. I don't PvP, primarily because I know I'll get slaughtered with ease. I'll do that when I've got my skills up a little more, can use better equipment, etc.
Occasionally I lose ships (e.g., retriever mining in low-sec, Ferox because I got over-confident, etc). I'm never happy about it, but it's just a game.
Show me an instance in real life where people suddenly appear from non-existence (and no, I don't mean hidden, I mean logged on). Or how about when you can totally lock someone up by warping past them and then come back and kill them at leisure because they've CTD'd. Or just suddenly stopped existing (I refuse to use that stupid term for that though).
Fact is, Eve is a game, plain and simple. It might be intricate, it might be detailed, but it's a game. As someone else has already stated Eve != Real Life.
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Freelanc3r
Caldari
Xoth Inc
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.25 17:48:00 -
[10]
Nice topic, I see you have decided to try the age old format here. Start off with a patronising beginning, good so far. Trails off in the middle a bit as you appear to switch between seemingly unrelated topic and topic with lovely useage of caps FOR EXTRA EFFECT. To be honest I just skipped through most of this part though. Ending with an insult. Top stuff
I especially liked the intended irony of first drawing similarities between a real life war and then helpfully informing us at the end that EVE is in fact a game.
"Have you EVER in any RL war heard of things such as fair play"
"GROW UP it is only a game"
A brilliant satirical take on most of the stuff on the forums, great work. 
-----------------------------------
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.01.25 18:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Shabesa
2. Whining about whining
Wilderness of mirrors.
The ONLY person that actually is correct for once.
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Fedacorr
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.01.25 19:13:00 -
[12]
Real life military thought:
If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
(David Hackworth)
or alternately:
In combat, there are no rules, always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
Have a plan.
Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
Would this count as a Gate Camp?
Enforcement
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.01.25 19:28:00 -
[13]
"2. There are also people that want us to change the way the game works so that they may do what they please
whenever they please without any risk of loss of material or property."
you mean like the candy asses who camp gates?
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.25 20:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
"2. There are also people that want us to change the way the game works so that they may do what they please
whenever they please without any risk of loss of material or property."
you mean like the candy asses who camp gates?
You realize there is a gate camper right on this page that is griping that someone got away in a BS using game mechanics without logging off?
"Nerf Nanos!!!!" is the cry. 
<----------->
MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests....
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Aceoil
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2007.01.25 20:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: John Thorlake
words words words
I myself think that a tweak actually could be in order.
If my action is to "End the game/my session" which I think the shortcut really stands for. That is what should happen, but with a slight delay with say 5 minutes to be certain I did not just crash my klient.
My ship stays in place and waits for my glorious return. If I dont, it dissappears after 5 minutes.
words words words
That's a good read.
I have one problem with the point I have outlined above.
Out in 0.0 or low sec even. Anyone who logs with a 5 minute timer. Will come back to find themselves in a clone vat missing their ship, and implants.
When someone logs off I can find them in 50 seconds. And that gives me another 4 minutes to get my friends in there and we get a free kill.
Logoff in station out in 0.0? Nope, you'll get camped in.
Logoff in a POS? Nope, you warp out of the POS when you log, and I can go find you.
Run away for 3 systems? Nope, I can still come into the system, find you, and blow you up.
And this would result in everyone complaining about losing their ships.
I think the 60 second logoff timer is about right. This should not change.
It requires a little bit of thinking and movement to logoff without getting killed in a hostile system. But it can be done.
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John Thorlake
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Posted - 2007.01.25 22:11:00 -
[16]
Well I can see your points.
And of course I do know that EvE is not real life. And I did not try to tell you so.
What I do say is that this game is indeed a computergame but it is run by real people.
So why should you not be able to bring rela life comparison into a game I ask you??
Why should I start to behave like something else when I play a game?
I like to think that I take some of my evaluations and looks upon life into this game.
whatever if I am aware of it or not.
Sure they give me the possibility to try and act like another individual even made of pure evil or one with great power.
And you ask what the paralells to the real worlds are, "I am not jumped, and warpscrambled and stuff".
Sure you are. There might not be warpscramblers on the market but If there were I am sure some of them might be put to use to inflict harm.
I almost bet my life on the fact that each one of you know at least one neighborhood you would not walk into at night or even at daytime cause you might get shot at, killed or robbed.
I choose not to go there due to plain evil, mad or misfurtunate people live there and they gang up to survive. It is indeed a hard life to live in 0.0 as in real life.
So why go there in the game and complain about being "robbed", when U dont in real life. If you want to go, bring escort or the police or something. Why be any different in EvE?
There are no differences to real life behaviour in EvE. We have the regular guy, who owns a car, drives to work each day, troubles no one and likes to be left alone and dont like trouble.
We have the madman who gives little thought to his actions, the businessman who makes profit from doing business and setting up networks and connections, and the thief and burglar who steals and cons others for their own benefit. We have the leaders and the followers, the honest and the dishonest. I see them all the time in EvE.
I do not believe that EvE is any different than the real world.
Apart from the obvious plain fact that the problem you run into here are quite easily solved and you can actually run in to them more than once without getting into trouble.
And there is a big button on the big box under yer table that says "Power off" that solves all of it at once.
In EvE you can choose to become anything you want any time you want.
I say that it is the other way around that might be a problem to some people, when you start thinking the real world is just like EvE. :)
A game will always be a game but put real people in it and it will start to mirror the real world.
Why should it not? I do not know how to act any other way than the human way.
It is abit strange that people fail to see it. And discussions around the game could prove quite alot easier when U do.
It is my personal view on the matter anyway.
Like it or not.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2007.01.25 22:38:00 -
[17]
You gatecamp because you can. You do what it takes to win.
People ctrl-q because they can. They do what it takes to win.
You don't feel the need to be honorable.
They don't feel the need to be honorable either.
You taught people to think like you, and now you are complaining because they use cheap tactics to counter cheap tactics.
In most games you get kicked for camping. Why is eve any different?
Why should going through a gate be an exercise in Russian Roulette except for those who use a covert ops alt?
Its not about tactics. Its about luck.
Most of us don't want to play a game where luck determines whether we lose our ship.
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Athren Soulsteal
Gallente
Intergalaxy Salvage And Repair
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Posted - 2007.01.25 22:49:00 -
[18]
Now when I read the title I had assumed it was "Take responsibility for your actionsö not ôAnother whine about me (op) not taking responsibility for my actionsö . IE a call for the end of the Prat welfare program (where players become criminals because they are not treated as criminals, they do not accept responsibility for their actions).
But since itÆs just another ôThis is interfering with my kill board scoreö rant and not a call for CCP to fix the game IÆll leave you to your rant.
Quote:
Think about the people that did fight you fairly. Think.... that were honorable and helped you out in times of need. Those are the real heroes of EVE.
I wish I could fit all the Quote |
Diicc Tater
Aggressive Tendencies
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.30 20:54:00 -
[19]
I have to post just to say this...
BEST . BILL . PAXTON . IN . A SIG .....EVAR
And JT is correct and ya'll are wrong.
**Under Construction I guess** |
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