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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Durethia
Momentum. Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.31 21:28:00 -
[301]
Edited by: Durethia on 31/01/2007 21:27:09 Edited by: Durethia on 31/01/2007 21:26:11 Testing the Myridon on the test server, I must agree it is obviously overpowered.
The dilemma is the fact it can only hold 5 Heavy Drones... so in theory we have the following:
1) Heavy EW, 5 Heavy Drones which can be destroyed. 2) Light EW, 6 Blasters and 5 Heavy Drones.
To be honest, the Myridon with no damage bonus on it's turrets is a sad puppy even with T2 blasters or rails.
Even though, it's drones can be destroyed... often we do not have the time to kill the drones on a drone ship. In theory destroying the drones can balance it's DPS, in practice, it's not really feasible when accounting all the other aspects of battle. NOS, Sensor Dampened, taking on fire from the ships turrets as well as drones, or taking fire from targets friendlies, jammed....
Here, cap boosters do not help.
Second Dilemma:
IF you have T2 Heavy Drones, the Myridon is ridiculously overpowered. If you have T1 Heavy Drones (and everything else being T2 including blasters), the Myridon is ridiculously underpowered.
This leads me to ponder if T2 Heavy Drones are overpowered, or if the difference between T1 drones and T2 drones is *too* great.
Third Dilemma:
We have to ignore the jealous T1 crowd on the third dilemma, which is a byproduct of the second dilemma.
A T1 ship should have very little, very very little, chance of even holding up for a significant amount of time to a T2 ship of the same class. No Cruiser, T2 fitted, faction fitted, officer fitted should last very long to any Heavy Assault Cruiser. T1 crowd might cry about this, but let them cry. My assertion is that the Myridon is also vastly overpowered becuase if it is 100% T2, Heavy Drones included, then it seems it's damage output is similar to that of an Astarte.
Maybe CCP will come out with second tier T2 Battlecruisers... but, a Myridon should NOT last very long under the blasters of an Astarte... no matter what it fits. If it can compete with a Command Ship, in DPS or Tank, then, I'm afriad something is technically wrong and I have to assert that the Myridon is grossly overpowered.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.01.31 21:40:00 -
[302]
Edited by: Goumindong on 31/01/2007 21:36:42
Originally by: madaluap
Everyone knows that a lot of lasers require way to much PG, thats a ammar problem not a gallente one...
Still what do you propose than? Give it medium drones only and you have a overpriced vexor...vexor can fit electron+ T2 hammers easily.
20% damge bonus to medium drones, no bonus to heavies, or lights ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.01.31 21:40:00 -
[303]
Edited by: Goumindong on 31/01/2007 21:36:42
Originally by: madaluap
Everyone knows that a lot of lasers require way to much PG, thats a ammar problem not a gallente one...
Still what do you propose than? Give it medium drones only and you have a overpriced vexor...vexor can fit electron+ T2 hammers easily.
20% damge bonus to medium drones, no bonus to heavies, or lights ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.31 21:45:00 -
[304]
I got a idae make it 3 turret slots and 8 high slots and enough pg to fit 8 med nos 2 MAR II full tank mwd and stuff then people cant complain about the damage is too great nwo yor just being nossed to death, and whos stopping a harbinger nossing a myrmidon downs, and jsut so you know on test i took out a Deimos in a Thoraxl, nos , nos is the problem here not the Myrmidon ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.31 21:45:00 -
[305]
I got a idae make it 3 turret slots and 8 high slots and enough pg to fit 8 med nos 2 MAR II full tank mwd and stuff then people cant complain about the damage is too great nwo yor just being nossed to death, and whos stopping a harbinger nossing a myrmidon downs, and jsut so you know on test i took out a Deimos in a Thoraxl, nos , nos is the problem here not the Myrmidon ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
FourFourTwo
Gallente Wise Guys
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Posted - 2007.01.31 21:56:00 -
[306]
Oh FFS! Is this thread STILL going?
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Kazuki Fuse
Nubs. Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.31 22:43:00 -
[307]
No way! Boost Myrmidon! It's not fair that the Vexor gets a 5% hybrid damage bonus and the poor Myrmidon doesn't. I think I'm going to start a new thread on this.......
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retzki
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Posted - 2007.02.01 13:26:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Lydia Browm I got a idae make it 3 turret slots and 8 high slots and enough pg to fit 8 med nos 2 MAR II full tank mwd and stuff then people cant complain about the damage is too great nwo yor just being nossed to death, and whos stopping a harbinger nossing a myrmidon downs, and jsut so you know on test i took out a Deimos in a Thoraxl, nos , nos is the problem here not the Myrmidon
Short: No.
Long: They will start complain about a NOSing nano-myrmidon doing 2km/s in orbit and sucking the cap dry, while drones slowly do their job.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.01 14:08:00 -
[309]
Far easier solution. Just give Myrmidon and Dominix their damage bonus to 'thermal' drones only. That seems fair doesn't it?
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Montero
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.02.01 15:07:00 -
[310]
Goumindong, you know not about that which you speak of.
i.e. Shhh ---------
Scrapheap Challenge
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.01 15:10:00 -
[311]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 01/02/2007 15:09:43
Originally by: Kellaen
Originally by: welsh wizard
The fairest solution is a delay on re-releasing drones or even a redocking aggression timer (while the drone folds its limbs inside the chasis or some other roleplay thing). Hell give the Myrmidon space for an extra Heavy drone or two, at least then its coming out victorius as CCP intended.
I was about to post a pretty lengthly reply, but that's best done in the drone thread we already have going. The Myrmidon without a doubt is a great ship, i'd expect no less from the top tier of a given class. Of course that is not a license to be a solo pwnmobile, but the myrmidon really isn't one right now anyway.
It's versatile, that's the strength. More ships should be versatile instead of the solo 'if you don't use this setup your ship sucks' nature so many are stuck with.
Are heavy drones on an oversized cruiser powerful? Yes Are heavy drones also slow and relatively low hp? Yes
If you get within 10km of this ship and it's heavy drones you really are asking to get whupped. Nos has a range, heavy drones have an effective range, blasters have range. If it's setup for mid-long ranges you won't be facing heavy drones, and thus the overpowered arguement really fails.
Somehow I don't see nanomyrmidons flying all over killing everything in sight in 0.0, that's nanophoons.
Aren't Gallente supposed to be blaster and drone focused towards combat operations? If anything, the only problem with any of these whine threads about supposed pwnmobiles is they all revolve around NOS. Put some anti-nos modules in the game, associate them with a skill. If then you chose not to equip to counter nos and encounter nos, there is zero room to continue whining.
Again, the common denominator with all of these constant threads lately is NOS.
Don't fix NOS.
Do add NOS countermeasures.
Not sure why you quoted me there but I essentially agree with what you're trying to say. I don't fly Gallente at all by the way.
The 5 heavy drones thing isn't overpowered, even 7 wouldn't be overpowered. Why? Because after about 45 seconds of fighting my drake the Myrmidon has approximately 0 drones
The drones themselves are not the problem, the problem is the recall to bay 'exploit' coupled with damps which gives the other pilot no hope of removing the Myrmidons damage as CCP intended.
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Belial02
Amarr The Collective
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Posted - 2007.02.01 15:53:00 -
[312]
Hurray for gallente \0/
Death to Caldaries tbfh...
Originally by: Omeega diplomacy is f1, f2, f3, really...
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.01 16:34:00 -
[313]
Leave my solopwn...errr, Myrmidon alone *****es. Lemme pwn in peace!
Like I said before, take away it's 1v1 ability and it has nothing left. Vs. more than one ship it's drones pop fast and it's left defenseless.
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DarkElf
Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.02.01 16:48:00 -
[314]
Originally by: James Lyrus Far easier solution. Just give Myrmidon and Dominix their damage bonus to 'thermal' drones only. That seems fair doesn't it?
well seen as ogres (thermal) have the highest dps of any heavy drone, they are used in about 90% of drone ships so don't see that changing much
DE
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Caios
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.01 17:51:00 -
[315]
I'd agree that being able to pop drones in and out of bay is both cheesy and unrealistic. The problem is that a build in delay would hit drone pilots a bit too hard right now, because of the current client freeze problem. fix that, and then you can fix this.
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Kellaen
Gallente Teeth Of The Hydra
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Posted - 2007.02.01 17:52:00 -
[316]
Quote:
Not sure why you quoted me there but I essentially agree with what you're trying to say. I don't fly Gallente at all by the way.
The 5 heavy drones thing isn't overpowered, even 7 wouldn't be overpowered. Why? Because after about 45 seconds of fighting my drake the Myrmidon has approximately 0 drones
The drones themselves are not the problem, the problem is the recall to bay 'exploit' coupled with damps which gives the other pilot no hope of removing the Myrmidons damage as CCP intended.
I think my original post exceeded the char limit, so I cut out all the quotes (missed yours apparently). Eventually I nixed half of the drone spiel out and just posted what I did.
And to date, i've seen one hostile Myrmidon come on a gank spree. He ran when his drones pop'd.
They're not even in the same league as nano-phoons or domis in terms of solo gank power in their class right now, not even close.
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welsh wizard
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.01 17:59:00 -
[317]
No which is why I agree, the Myrmidon itself is fine and shouldn't be nerfed. The drone issue needs fixing though, its more of a problem when facing Ishtars and Domis tbh.
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Hatsim
Black Lance
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Posted - 2007.02.01 19:07:00 -
[318]
damn whiners... learn the game and stop the QQ
KILL DRONES AND ? LOW DPS Myrm
LET DRONES PWN YOU ? = STUPID PLAYER :>
tbfh Boost the myrm...
ALL HAIL THE GALLENTEANS!!
Pwned by ISP |
Fistme
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Posted - 2007.02.01 19:18:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Hatsim damn whiners... learn the game and stop the QQ
KILL DRONES AND ? LOW DPS Myrm
LET DRONES PWN YOU ? = STUPID PLAYER :>
tbfh Boost the myrm...
ALL HAIL THE GALLENTEANS!!
Sure, killing drones works fantastic on Myrmidons that don't use damps. However the problem as many people throught this thread have stated is that when a myrmidon is using 2 or 3 damps killing the drones really does not become a very good option. If you can't kill the drones of a Myrmidon then it's going to out tank and out gank almost all other t1 BCs, that is the issue.
So there are a couple of options to fix the problem. First and formost being that the ability to recall and relaunch drones needs to be looked into and imo needs a delay, the exact number on this is clearly up to discusion. Secondly, all of the tier1 BCs need to be looked into especially the Cyclone and Ferox. Now of course a tier2 ship should have a little more umph than it's tier1 cousin but not to the degree that it is at now.
To be honest I personally hate the idea of "Tiers" of ships because it's just an excuse to make one ship more powerfull than the other. Variety is key as I have already stated and if one ship of the same race/class is more powerfull than the other then that variety becomes less profound. Sorry for getting off topic.
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MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.01 19:36:00 -
[320]
Originally by: James Lyrus Far easier solution. Just give Myrmidon and Dominix their damage bonus to 'thermal' drones only. That seems fair doesn't it?
Sure. When everyone else can only use one type of ammo.
There is nothing wrong with the Myrimidon.
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell |
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.01 19:40:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Montero Goumindong, you know not about that which you speak of.
i.e. Shhh
Sorry buddy, i dont like ignorance, unless it makes me a lot of money.
Since myrmidons dont make me a lot of money, i dont see a reason to shut up. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2007.02.01 20:18:00 -
[322]
Originally by: MrTripps
Originally by: James Lyrus Far easier solution. Just give Myrmidon and Dominix their damage bonus to 'thermal' drones only. That seems fair doesn't it?
Sure. When everyone else can only use one type of ammo.
There is nothing wrong with the Myrimidon.
Ehhh... caldari kinetic missile bonus??
Give drones an aggression timer which won't let the drones dock for 10-15 sec. That way the pilot would not be able to scoop redeploy all the time..
The myrm is a win button, Make it fair CCP..
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Kruel
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.01 21:45:00 -
[323]
I saw a suggestion earlier which I thought was pretty neat...
When drones dock, use cap from the ship to repair the drones. The longer the drones are in the bay, the more they are repped.
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Portios Smith
Sanguine Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.01 22:30:00 -
[324]
I have never seen more whining in any forum of any game as I see here. you guys are pathetic
As for the Myrm overpowered. I know a Hurricane pilot that will WTFBBQ most Myrms in no time. This Hurricane set up has enough DPS to break a good battleship tank in decent time. All tier 3 BC are great gank ships.
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.02.01 23:58:00 -
[325]
Originally by: James Lyrus Far easier solution. Just give Myrmidon and Dominix their damage bonus to 'thermal' drones only. That seems fair doesn't it?
Ok kinetic damage bonus for raven EM damagebonus for ammar (omfg the whining ) and explosive damage bonus for minmatard
no? ok... _________________________________________________ Breetime
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.02 01:15:00 -
[326]
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: James Lyrus Far easier solution. Just give Myrmidon and Dominix their damage bonus to 'thermal' drones only. That seems fair doesn't it?
Ok kinetic damage bonus for raven EM damagebonus for ammar (omfg the whining ) and explosive damage bonus for minmatard
no? ok...
This would make sense only if their primary weapon systems were able to produce any one singular damage type at a time and only at any one at any one time.
There are no EM/therm missiles and no ex/kin missiles. Which is why guns dont recieve singular damage type bonuses, ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.02.02 02:07:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: James Lyrus Far easier solution. Just give Myrmidon and Dominix their damage bonus to 'thermal' drones only. That seems fair doesn't it?
Ok kinetic damage bonus for raven EM damagebonus for ammar (omfg the whining ) and explosive damage bonus for minmatard
no? ok...
This would make sense only if their primary weapon systems were able to produce any one singular damage type at a time and only at any one at any one time.
There are no EM/therm missiles and no ex/kin missiles. Which is why guns dont recieve singular damage type bonuses,
Well you can have those EM/therm and ex/kin missiles. Than hybrid gets explosive, em, therm and kin damage only damagetypes. _________________________________________________ Breetime
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.02 03:20:00 -
[328]
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: James Lyrus Far easier solution. Just give Myrmidon and Dominix their damage bonus to 'thermal' drones only. That seems fair doesn't it?
Ok kinetic damage bonus for raven EM damagebonus for ammar (omfg the whining ) and explosive damage bonus for minmatard
no? ok...
This would make sense only if their primary weapon systems were able to produce any one singular damage type at a time and only at any one at any one time.
There are no EM/therm missiles and no ex/kin missiles. Which is why guns dont recieve singular damage type bonuses,
Well you can have those EM/therm and ex/kin missiles. Than hybrid gets explosive, em, therm and kin damage only damagetypes.
I am not saying that its not an advantage, im just saying why it happens. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
IntegralHellsing
Gallente The Raven Warriors
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Posted - 2007.02.06 02:51:00 -
[329]
are you a nub? no really? do you know how easy it is to pop ogre? :P
if you see myrmidon, this is what you do.
1. lock all the drones if they are heavy drones, then pew pew it with your drones. or use missiles. ogre has 1000 hp total i think. just bear the dmg for a while and pew pew the drones and 1 less drone will decrease DPS a lot.
2. go faster than 1000 m/s. MWD is an option. just go faster than myrmidon and never let it get you into web range. Myrmidon is not so slow ship, but its acceleration takes ages. it takes like 2~3 MWD cycle to reach 1000 m/s. (if it's faction fitted, then bad luck.) it's your choice to go for drones first to be safe, or shoot myrmidon instead. but i suggest drones first.
3. get harbinger. you might think 'WTF harbinger?' but think this way. no armour tanking ship is fitted with em hardner, unless it has passive tanks. Because lots of people use myrmidon for nos ship they are likely to go for active hardners. 1 rep, 3 hardner, 1 plate, 1 dcu, which excludes em hardner. (or 2 rep, 3 hardner, 1 dcu.) i tested with a harbinger and he took my armour easily. if i didn't use my blasters i would have lost. but not that i won. we both went into hull at similar time. (lucky i was testing against my corp member :P) but put it this way. he didn't even bother to shoot my drone cuz he wanted to test his tank too. if he shot my ogre with his drones my DPS would have decreased a lot and i would have lost completely.
ps. just because it has more dps than cruiser raven and a drake, doesn't mean it's a subject of a nerf bat. i think myrmidon should stay where it is. if you face one, pop his drones. easy? what's he going to do? chew you with his 2 blasters? ------------------------------
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Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.06 07:31:00 -
[330]
when all the new bc's came out in rev. we watched closesly to see which were best and which were the worst by the only data for comparison which is really a true guage of how good a ship by looking at just how many died
and the myrmidon won hands down as the BC most likely to die in pvp every body keeps quoting this vs that endlessly this stat vs that stat .
but ignore the math and go out there and get some pratical data
myrmidon die just as easy as most other ships
ships are just hulls and weapons it's the pilots who make them pwn
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