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Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.01.30 08:04:00 -
[1]
- 3 Au/s warp speed - Short warp distances
Those 2 things are the ones that get me the most, they're not balance just an annoyance.
I can live with the no warp while cloaked bit since we do get to use cheap cloaks ( relative compared to cov ops ).
If they really want us to be slower than normal frigates, why not drop us down 1 warp speed class instead of 2; 4.5 Au/s would be a decent compromise.
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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
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Posted - 2007.01.30 08:15:00 -
[2]
I have to agree that the insanely short warp distances are annoying as hell, but then again under the current rule-set there is not much reason to fly a Bomber anyway.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.30 08:19:00 -
[3]
id b flying manticores without cloaks in fleets, just for fun - but the warp distance makes it such an annoyince to fly.
- Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.30 12:38:00 -
[4]
I never have problems with warp distances on my tanked bomber. ItĘs been in a few fleets now and has never had to come out of warp and re-enter.
I think bombers are under appreciated. Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Gabbelgak
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Posted - 2007.01.30 12:46:00 -
[5]
I got a crap load of flack for even suggesting I wanted to be a specilized stealth bomber with this char when I made him. So much so I even changed how I use this guy after getting cov ops and cloaking up to 4 I changed this guy's role to more of a dedicated industrialist heh.
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.01.30 16:13:00 -
[6]
SB's are very good for destroying HAC's, just use the racially weak resist Missiles, sensor damps, and a mwd. Normally i dont even bother with a cloak.
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Kerdrak
Amarr 3B Legio IX Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.30 16:43:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Christopher Dalran SB's are very good for destroying HAC's, just use the racially weak resist Missiles, sensor damps, and a mwd. Normally i dont even bother with a cloak.
Explain please, how you destroy a HAC in a SB... ________________________________________ First atheist amarr on EVE
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.01.30 16:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 30/01/2007 16:41:38
Originally by: Kerdrak
Originally by: Christopher Dalran SB's are very good for destroying HAC's, just use the racially weak resist Missiles, sensor damps, and a mwd. Normally i dont even bother with a cloak.
Explain please, how you destroy a HAC in a SB...
Get 2 to 3 people in them.
Sensor dampen the HAC
Use MWD's to alternate and shoot in and out of the HACs now pathetic locking range so that someone is alwayse in range and scrambling but never in range long enough to get locked.
Tada for about 40 mill MAX you just costed someone over 250 mill.
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Kerdrak
Amarr 3B Legio IX Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.30 16:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Christopher Dalran
Get 2 to 3 people in them.
Sensor dampen the HAC
Use MWD's to alternate and shoot in and out of the HACs now pathetic locking range so that someone is alwayse in range and scrambling but never in range long enough to get locked.
Tada for about 40 mill MAX you just costed someone over 250 mill.
Mmmmokey... but this is very very hipotetical (a lonely HAC and a gang of SB¦s???)and hard to do. And you will ned more than 2 or 3 SB¦s. My AF can tank a single manticore with no problems, using any kind of missiles.
Really SB¦s works fine in packs but a lone SB only can take industrials and frigs. ________________________________________ First atheist amarr on EVE
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.01.30 17:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 30/01/2007 17:04:23 Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 30/01/2007 17:02:45
Originally by: Kerdrak
Originally by: Christopher Dalran
Get 2 to 3 people in them.
Sensor dampen the HAC
Use MWD's to alternate and shoot in and out of the HACs now pathetic locking range so that someone is alwayse in range and scrambling but never in range long enough to get locked.
Tada for about 40 mill MAX you just costed someone over 250 mill.
Mmmmokey... but this is very very hipotetical (a lonely HAC and a gang of SB¦s???)and hard to do. And you will ned more than 2 or 3 SB¦s. My AF can tank a single manticore with no problems, using any kind of missiles.
Really SB¦s works fine in packs but a lone SB only can take industrials and frigs.
I find Lone pirate HAC's all the time, spend enough time in low sec and you will find a Vagabond sooner or later i guarantee it. And its not very hypothetical if your in a corp with atleast 10 people that can fly them and you set up a time to go trolling around in them.
Dont forget people tend to reuse Safespots alot, you can easily scout out the safespots of someone in a HAC using a Cov ops that is pirating in a system regularly (just browse the message boards for carebears whining about being killed by a pirate, not hard to find those posts) and then revisit them later and just wait cloaked using someone as bait.
Lately i've gotted quite engrossed with exploration so i havent been bounty hunting lately but the process in volved in going after a specific target is quite different than randomly pirating people in systems as they fly by, you have the luxuary of setting up ambushes and fitting your ship properly. This style is not for everyone, you get alot fewer kills but they are for a reason.
People also like to come on the forums and gloat about their new faction mods, they make great targets aswell.
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THX 1138
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.01.30 17:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Christopher Dalran Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 30/01/2007 16:41:38
Originally by: Kerdrak
Originally by: Christopher Dalran SB's are very good for destroying HAC's, just use the racially weak resist Missiles, sensor damps, and a mwd. Normally i dont even bother with a cloak.
Explain please, how you destroy a HAC in a SB...
Get 2 to 3 people in them.
Sensor dampen the HAC
Use MWD's to alternate and shoot in and out of the HACs now pathetic locking range so that someone is alwayse in range and scrambling but never in range long enough to get locked.
Tada for about 40 mill MAX you just costed someone over 250 mill.
Do you and your two buddies have a killboard we can look at? -*-*-*-*-
Individuality is underrated |
Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.01.30 18:25:00 -
[12]
@ The no problems warping reply ; Try living in minmatar space, and or fitting an AB/MWD.
It's very very annoying since your gang also warps @ 3 au/s. And you ( in a frigate ) cant keep up.
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Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.30 21:25:00 -
[13]
ItĘs a stealth bomber you donĘt fit AB or Microwarp if you need to go fast at sub warp speeds you cloak and use the speed bonus. The ships agile so I tend to get into warp faster then my gang mates and due to the PDS T2 fitted I can stay in warp long enough to hit my destination. I donĘt even have the lvl 5 warp skill and I still managed to keep up with the fleet and not come out of warp before the destination.
SBĘs are not fast ships but they can keep up with a fleet/gangs. Perhaps I hang around the wrong systems but I donĘt have the warp problem that others talk about. Just 2 days ago I did a 30+ jump trip with a fleet, not one problem with keeping up.T hen again I donĘt fly my SB in pure Interceptor/speed fleets. So far only been in mixed fleets.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Aceoil
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2007.01.30 21:49:00 -
[14]
my manticore can warp about 53 AU without a capacitor battery
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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.01.30 21:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Max Hardcase - 3 Au/s warp speed - Short warp distances
Those 2 things are the ones that get me the most, they're not balance just an annoyance.
I can live with the no warp while cloaked bit since we do get to use cheap cloaks ( relative compared to cov ops ).
If they really want us to be slower than normal frigates, why not drop us down 1 warp speed class instead of 2; 4.5 Au/s would be a decent compromise.
Despite Pottsey's fairly uneducated ramblings there's no reason they should warp at 3 au/sec. It makes them have short warp range (cap increase recently helped), and slows down the entire gang (which defeats the purpose of a frig gang). They should warp at 6 au/sec just like assault frigates.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Pottsey's Clone
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Posted - 2007.01.30 22:10:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Pottsey''s Clone on 30/01/2007 22:07:34 My post is not uneducated ramblings. My PvP account specialiseĘs in Stealth Bombers its all I fly so I am educated very much in that area. Everything I said was true. Please prove me wrong instead of just name calling.
I have Warp Drive Operation lvl 4 and have never hold up any gangs or fleets I have been apart off and I never have problems with short warp distance's. I have been in two fleets the past week and not once had a problem with short short warp distances.
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Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.01.30 22:41:00 -
[17]
I doubt you have to cross a 190 AU system, a 150 AU system, and a 220 AU system on a regular basis, which I do. When you have that you quickly find out how short legged these ships are. Also bombers aren't agile, period. They can uncloak already aligned and get to warp instantly if you use an improved cloak but that's it.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.31 16:00:00 -
[18]
How do you work out max warp distance? Whats the math behind it? Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.01.31 16:40:00 -
[19]
Its based on mass and a hidden attribute on the ship. ( and ofcourse the distance you want to warp ).
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.31 16:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Christopher Dalran Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 30/01/2007 17:04:23 Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 30/01/2007 17:02:45
Originally by: Kerdrak
Originally by: Christopher Dalran
Get 2 to 3 people in them.
Sensor dampen the HAC
Use MWD's to alternate and shoot in and out of the HACs now pathetic locking range so that someone is alwayse in range and scrambling but never in range long enough to get locked.
Tada for about 40 mill MAX you just costed someone over 250 mill.
Mmmmokey... but this is very very hipotetical (a lonely HAC and a gang of SB¦s???)and hard to do. And you will ned more than 2 or 3 SB¦s. My AF can tank a single manticore with no problems, using any kind of missiles.
Really SB¦s works fine in packs but a lone SB only can take industrials and frigs.
I find Lone pirate HAC's all the time, spend enough time in low sec and you will find a Vagabond sooner or later i guarantee it. And its not very hypothetical if your in a corp with atleast 10 people that can fly them and you set up a time to go trolling around in them.
Dont forget people tend to reuse Safespots alot, you can easily scout out the safespots of someone in a HAC using a Cov ops that is pirating in a system regularly (just browse the message boards for carebears whining about being killed by a pirate, not hard to find those posts) and then revisit them later and just wait cloaked using someone as bait.
Lately i've gotted quite engrossed with exploration so i havent been bounty hunting lately but the process in volved in going after a specific target is quite different than randomly pirating people in systems as they fly by, you have the luxuary of setting up ambushes and fitting your ship properly. This style is not for everyone, you get alot fewer kills but they are for a reason.
People also like to come on the forums and gloat about their new faction mods, they make great targets aswell.
Problem you've got though, is 'bring 10 people in a stealth' you might as well just bring 10 people in ... well actually almost any ship, come to think of it. A kestrel does almost as much DPS and is way cheaper. A raven does the same thing, only better.
It's not that a stealth bomber is rubbish exactly, it's just that it's role is so phenomenally 'niche' (at the moment) that you're probably better off flying something else, in almost any situation you're in a stealth bomber.
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LoKesh
Amarr SH Brotherhood R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.31 16:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kai Lae I doubt you have to cross a 190 AU system, a 150 AU system, and a 220 AU system on a regular basis, which I do. When you have that you quickly find out how short legged these ships are. Also bombers aren't agile, period. They can uncloak already aligned and get to warp instantly if you use an improved cloak but that's it.
These systems are not the norm - I've crossed paths with more than a few, but... they represent less than 5% of Eve. 220 AU systems are going to be a problem to alot of ships - not just the SB.
Overall, I would say the agility is okay (they're frikkin bombers) and the cap is okay (you don't need it) but the mass (or whatever else effects the warp/cap ratio) could use some looking at. As long as the promised changes are good the warp issues may not matter. It adds an interesting character to the ship.
On more personal note - calling Pottsey ignorant is perhaps one of the silliest things I've ever seen someone do on the forums. Pottsey is one of the best thought out forum posters Eve has. Time and again we've seen careful calculation and excellent conclusions from Pottsey... and this pre-dates Eve back to the dark days of EnB. Logic is better than names.
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Lubomir Penev
Gallente Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2007.01.31 18:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Aceoil my manticore can warp about 53 AU without a capacitor battery
And the three other SB do much better. It's a Manticore problem, not a stealth bomber problem. The Manticore inherited the pathetic cap of the Kestrel.
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Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.01.31 19:11:00 -
[23]
So if my mass is 2,975,000 kg and I have 385 reactor cap what would my max warp distance be? Not found the warp formula yet so I cannot work it out. Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.01.31 19:34:00 -
[24]
Well my shuttle gets further in terms of the max it can do in 1 warp. 53 AU sounds right. there is 1 system where distance between gates is about that and I always land just short
----- Khaldari Crystaline Green A Khanid Aerospace Company
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