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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2007.01.30 10:25:00 -
[1]
Alright I was speaking with my ceo recently and basically he and a few others don't go down the road to get a freighter simply because of the insane amount of time it takes to actually get it. So I was looking at the skills and I couldn't see where it's so massively long.
Spaceship command V: 10 days or so. Not a big deal. advanced spaceship command 1: an hour or 2. Definately nothing freighter skill itself: couple hours? nothing
It just wasn't looking long to me at all. I didn't even look at industrial skill because you get it basically the same time as you get a destroyer and that's a level 2 skill. You often see a catalyst mining and then have an iteron come and pick up the giant can.
I was wrong. It's a friggen level 4 skill. That's crazy. It ought to be a level 2 skill. About 20 days worth of training rather then 40+ to train. Thusly making freighters more plausible to fly without being crazy insane push off into crazy land to train.
So what am I proposing? Currently according to evemon. Which seems pretty reliable. It'd take approximately 53 days to train to fly a freighter for me. Make the industrial skill into a level 2 skill. It'll cut off about 23 days approximately.
You still have a month of training to work over. You also still have the massive costs for those freighters which will basically keep the # of freighters in the universe rather low. As most people who can afford one already have one or don't want one. Also for the fact that the amount of these that can be built per the amount of people with the skills and resources(bpo/bpcs) will be remaining pretty constant. Such a change won't make much of a difference.
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Arbenowskee
Constructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.01.30 11:04:00 -
[2]
and the people that allready trained for it should do what with "overtrained SP" ?
ever tought of that?
it's suppose to be hard to get, its a capital ship. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sig too large. Maximum size 400x120 and 24000 bytes. -Oiri Yusko |
RoDs84
Order Of Common Wealth
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Posted - 2007.01.30 11:06:00 -
[3]
Edited by: RoDs84 on 30/01/2007 11:02:27 "Spaceship command V: 10 days or so"
I think you need to finish learning skills first, since Spaceship Command V shouldnt take no more than 4-5 days. Indusrial V lasts 17-19 days with avarage attributes. And freighters are "capital" haulers and it makes sense to spent 3 weeks to get them.
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Hakar Kerarmor
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Posted - 2007.01.30 12:09:00 -
[4]
I think the big difference between Spaceship Command and Racial Industrial is that one has a big effect on the game, and the other does not. Spaceship Command V gives me... what? 10% more ship agility? I can barely maintain my excitement, not. Gallente Industrial V gives me an Iteron V with 25% more cargo space and speed.
What you say makes sense if you only look at training for a freighter, but in my opinion Racial Industrial is too powerful a skill to have a lower rank.
------------------------------------------- Beware, you who seek first and final principles, for you are trampling the garden of an angry God and he awaits you just beyond the last theorem.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2007.01.30 12:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Arbenowskee and the people that allready trained for it should do what with "overtrained SP" ?
ever tought of that?
it's suppose to be hard to get, its a capital ship.
things are often trained or done and the patch comes along and changes these. I've made a ton of gravimetric probes. This patch today just dropped the requirements. Should I be reimbursed for the costs? No... and the same thing can be said for the other people have have done it before.
For example. Go out and buy an xbox360 on the day of release. itll cost you like $500 or something. Wait a year from now. It'll be far cheaper. Should those who paid more be reimbursed? no they got it sooner then others.
And sure it'll cost lots and be hard to get. I'm just saying make the training a little less as hard. I also don't really need to make this about the freighters anyway. I could make it for the iteron V.
You need industrial V for the iteron V. but to get a pretty damn similar other industrial-the mammoth you need only industrial iv.
Making the industrial skill a level 2 more inline with when you can actually get it and use the ships. Would drop such a cost like this to something I think would be more reasonable. While the freighter would STILL be quite expensive and hard to get.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Solid Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.30 12:54:00 -
[6]
I generally tend to disagree with all 'I want it to be easier' posts. Unfortunately this is no exception.
If the industrial skill was lower rank, everybody would fly around in an Iteron V or have a freighter. Piloting a freighter and training industrials to lvl 5 takes some commitment, which means time. Probably that's the reason why many players settle for a lower tier industrial ship. Just how many other skills are there for a dedicated hauler/freighter pilot? Do you really want to thin out this already very shallow 'profession'?
Look at fighter pilots: Cruisers is an everyman's ship class, right? Rank 5 Everybody wants to pilot battleships I guess? Rank 8 And so on..
Now I have to apologise in advance because what I'm about to say isn't something I normally say, but.. if lvl 5 for a rank 4 skill is an "insane amount of time" to you, you're probably a newb. It actually isn't much at all in the long run. Other games (won't mention any name) might provide the possibilities to get to highest lvl in 14 days or pretty much everything in two months. EVE is a niche game. It can't afford that. And in fact, for many players it's one of the great features of this game.
___________________________________ _/_/ Game balance isn't just a luxury \_\_ |
Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.01.30 14:55:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 30/01/2007 14:52:13
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Just for the record: - There is a BIG difference between the Mammoth and the Iteron V - I don't have any freighter pilot character
I have 1 account because i can't afford to have a 2nd account just for freighter guy. And I'm trying to train up for capital ships having already trained freighter. It is some looong skills training with sucky attributes
The real point is most people just go "aww screw it, I'll get another account to train up for freighter on" and then go off make the money for the thing (+ skillbooks which cost over 110mil!) on their main or have fun pvp'ing or whatnot
Still trying to make up my mind whether paying for a game more than once is good or not, but seems to be the way things are going :
----- Khaldari Crystaline Green A Khanid Aerospace Company
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Erim Solfara
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Posted - 2007.01.30 15:42:00 -
[8]
It's a high RANK skill, not a high level skill.
Secondly, it's a high rank skill simply because that means freighting is a viable profession in eve, if it was a skill everyone trained in a couple of spare days, it'd be worthless, there'd be a huge influx of massive industrials, and many more freighters, meaning the specialised characters would miss out on profits. ---------------------------------------- Proposed new ship class |
Ciara Daag
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Posted - 2007.01.30 17:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jason Edwards Alright I was speaking with my ceo recently and basically he and a few others don't go down the road to get a freighter simply because of the insane amount of time it takes to actually get it. So I was looking at the skills and I couldn't see where it's so massively long.
Spaceship command V: 10 days or so. Not a big deal. advanced spaceship command 1: an hour or 2. Definately nothing freighter skill itself: couple hours? nothing
It just wasn't looking long to me at all. I didn't even look at industrial skill because you get it basically the same time as you get a destroyer and that's a level 2 skill. You often see a catalyst mining and then have an iteron come and pick up the giant can. .
The ship costs nearly a billion isk.Capital Ships costs 400M and Freighters costs 75M. Its not a ship for new players. In fact,its something that is often owned not by players but by corporations. Tech II haulers require industrial level V as well. I think the level of the skill is just fine the way it is. The problem is,your too new of a player. You get a +10 to all your stats when you get all your learning skills up to max. You can also install implants,thats a maximum of +15 to your stats for an experienced player. The problem sounds like your problem is that your an industrial character.
Most of your time goes into industrial skills. As a combat pilot,my time goes into flying ships. The only extra skill I need is industrial V. My stats are better for that too. Why should a character who specializes in industry get off easy on flying one of the few classes of ship he will ever need to train? It makes sense that a dedicated pilot will have an easier time. I don't complain because it takes so long to train industrial skills. I have a few,and they take a lot longer for me than they do for you. There are some I would like,but it just doesn't make sense for me to train them because of the time involved.
Its also not a correct assessment that it takes 40 days to train industrial V. It takes about 25 days,give or take. You must either have terrible stats in perception and willpower(not even my int based skills take that long) or haven't trained up any of your learning skills. It takes about a year to get a combat character to a level where your not constantly struggling to train the skills that you need just to fly the t1 and perhaps one or two t2 ships. After that,your rounding things out. You have the opportunity to train most skills to level IV and a few of the important ones to level V. You can then start on capital ships or tII ships that have the really steep skill requirements. Most of the skills that I train now have training times of 20 to 30 days. I don't think anything of it. What it really comes down to is,if you think that 20 days is a long time to train,then you shouldnt be training something like a Freighter,because you have to many other skills that are more important. When the time comes to train it,it wont seem like much at all.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2007.01.30 17:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Erim Solfara It's a high RANK skill, not a high level skill.
Secondly, it's a high rank skill simply because that means freighting is a viable profession in eve, if it was a skill everyone trained in a couple of spare days, it'd be worthless, there'd be a huge influx of massive industrials, and many more freighters, meaning the specialised characters would miss out on profits.
Ive already broken this claim apart previously. By lowering the skill down might create some people to get to higher levels. The amount of these ships being created and used would basically remain constant. Not many people have nearly a billion to spend on a freighter which they likely won't use all that much anyway.
I'd definately compromise and settle for it to be dropped to a level 3 instead of 2 considering the possibility of iteron Vs getting more pilots. The obvious fix for that would be to raise the skill requirements elsewhere on the iteron 3-4-5 for say Spaceship Command IV instead of III. Also Gallente Frigate IV istead of III. It would basically equal out the amount of time lost on the industrial skill.
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2007.01.30 18:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ciara Daag The ship costs nearly a billion isk.Capital Ships costs 400M and Freighters costs 75M. Its not a ship for new players. In fact,its something that is often owned not by players but by corporations. Tech II haulers require industrial level V as well. I think the level of the skill is just fine the way it is. The problem is,your too new of a player. You get a +10 to all your stats when you get all your learning skills up to max. You can also install implants,thats a maximum of +15 to your stats for an experienced player. The problem sounds like your problem is that your an industrial character.
I have no interest of any kind personally in freighters. If I need massive amounts of stuff to be moved. Which so far hasn't occured. My corp has a few freighters and a few carriers. That I know about. Plausibly more. Which I could probably get moved within a day. I was simply noticing what other people were saying and I made the comparison to how I was able to get an industrial when I could get a destroyer. Which was level 2. So really it sort of seems like industrials ought to be more along the lines of a 2nd or 3rd level. It'd be more balanced. Also my numbers are from having no skills at all in those fields. FRom the bottom up basically. It would obviously be far less for my character.
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.01.30 20:04:00 -
[12]
Would you like some cheese with your whine? Just because it is easy to get level 1 does not mean it should be easy to get to level 5. You can train battleship 1 rather quickly as well, but it takes over a month to get to level 5. That's how skills work. Cruisers 5 takes just as long as Industrials 5 and only requires another few hours of training frigates to plug in. Would you like that lowered as well?
You want to fly T2 and capital ships, it takes some training time.
And yea, rank 4 skills should only take around 20 days to train to level 5 as it is, not 40 as you say.
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