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Nader Ardeshir
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.02.08 18:06:58 -
[1] - Quote
I am currently a member of the 24th Imperial Crusade and noticed that there are war targets in Amarr. Not a crazy concept, maybe they are just jumping gates and the Amarr Navy threatening them with destruction never comes to fruition because they jump to a safe, planet or next system.
However, I have come to find that it is quite common for war targets to sit at 0km and 0m/s on the Amarr Emperor Family station and explode anyone coming out. The Navy NPC's never respond despite the message you can see saying there will be consequences when they first warp in.
I saw someone in Militia chat talking about this issue and others started to mention that it was an exploit and to report the player involved. I did not want to report anyone that had done nothing wrong and so went to the help channel to see if it was truly an exploit (it seemed to me a clear case though). I was told that it is not an exploit yet, and to make a forum post so the issue gets attention and may be designated an exploit in the future.
To me, from an immersion standpoint, it makes no sense that in the capitol of the empire, people the empire is at war with can sit outside a station an attack with impunity. Furthermore, the message that pops up on the screen is very misleading because the Navy never shows up to do anything. What is the point of the Navy or that message if they don't actually attack? If this is intended functionality then I do not think any message at all should be displayed.
I do not know the mechanics of how the war target(s) in question accomplished this but the people in Militia chat mentioned alts and warping in/out to fool the NPC Navy into allowing them to sit outside the station without being attacked. Does anyone know if this is how it works?
It is not the end of the world each Militia has to defend their respective high sec portions of space, just slightly annoying. I DO think ganking, in the fashion similar to pirates ganking miners should be allowed. By all means, if you warp into me and can pop me then warp away before naval response, well done. It's the sitting there blowing up multiple people without response that seems odd.
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Shawn Farscape
Xtrata Shipyards Rebel Alliance of New Eden
0
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Posted - 2016.02.08 18:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
I second this. The pilots involved in this activity are using exploited mechanics to get around the consequences of being in a 1.0 system, despite being in opposing militia, and is using it to grief... This needs to be fixed.
This is one example: https://zkillboard.com/character/93222039/
Thank you. |
Nader Ardeshir
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.02.08 19:46:51 -
[3] - Quote
Through talking with some more people and experimenting a bit, it seems another popular tactic that is perfectly legit is to simply undock at the same time as someone they want to kill in Amarr. This doesn't violate any game mechanics and seems to be a fair way of ganking (I'm fine with this). Telling this method apart from the one in my OP can be difficult if you are not paying attention when you warp into the station. I have seen both though.
In the FW area you cannot dock at the opposing factions stations, which prevents the second kind of gank. I guess they don't do that in high sec because you would be locked out of trade hubs?
Anyways, given that war targets can dock at enemy faction stations in high sec, I don't know you could ever necessarily prove someone was using the tactic in my OP instead of the one mentioned here without Fraps or something. Lessons learned, just need to make a neutral hauler alt like everyone else =) |
Icarius
The Wings of Maak
29
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Posted - 2016.02.08 20:15:29 -
[4] - Quote
well well well
this is an interesting post
Nader Ardeshir , do you want to know how to become immune to police faction in Amarr or Jita?
Ha, and i forgot to say i am currently at war with the pilot listed above |
Nader Ardeshir
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.02.08 20:23:41 -
[5] - Quote
Icarius wrote:well well well
this is an interesting post
Nader Ardeshir , do you want to know how to become immune to police faction in Amarr or Jita?
Ha, and i forgot to say i am currently at the the pilot listed above
Mostly I just want to know what is going on. Some people in Militia chat are saying exploit. I have played very little and so am trying to find out what to do. I think I did the right think going to the Help channel and they had the same assumption as Militia chat when I explained the situation as I saw it, exploit. Then after talking some more, experimenting and getting blown up a few more times, I figure out about the undock thing.
If that is what is happening then cool, no problems. Is that what is happening? My Shuttle that got blown up at 100km was there observing trying to see if the player mentioned was actually docking up or just sitting there. However, they warped to me after about 15 seconds from sitting on station at 10km and 0m/s and blew my shuttle up before I could observe too long lol. Were they there for only 20 seconds, were they there for minutes like someone in Milita chat was claiming, I do not know.
I have made no accusations about anyone and am simply trying to learn. If you are willing to teach, then please do. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
1023
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Posted - 2016.02.08 20:32:25 -
[6] - Quote
Here's a concept. Try the search function. This has been discussed, and the mechanics allow it. You just don't know how the mechanic works. |
Icarius
The Wings of Maak
29
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Posted - 2016.02.08 20:37:50 -
[7] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5959510#post5959510 |
Nader Ardeshir
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.02.08 21:03:34 -
[8] - Quote
Icarius wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5959510#post5959510
Thanks for the link Icarius. I did see this the other night, WT rattlesnake, neutral reps and all. I guess CCP is aware though and if it bothered them they would have posted in that thread probably.
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Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
870
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Posted - 2016.02.13 20:24:10 -
[9] - Quote
same thing has happened as long as FW has existed and it is hardly an exploit, it can be if it done on certain way but i am sure those guys are legit. |
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
870
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Posted - 2016.02.13 20:28:52 -
[10] - Quote
Icarius wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5959510#post5959510
why to do it like that when there is easier way also :( |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
9599
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Posted - 2016.02.13 23:18:47 -
[11] - Quote
A few things:
- just because you don't see the NPCs visibly attacking a player, it does not mean they are not. I've done more than a few high-sec raids during my time in FW some odd years ago. The Faction Navy NPCs (of all factions) have stupid long engagement ranges and can easily hurt people within 40 to 50km. They even apply their preferred Electronic Warfare within sub-20km ranges.
- a lot of people use the term "exploit" to describe tactics and/or mechanics they do not like.
- this tactic is as old as the hills. If CCP wanted to do something about, they would have. Especially after the Faction War Revamp some time ago.
- the reason for allowing "hostile" FW players to dock in high-sec stations belonging to their respective enemy is because the odds are already stacked in favor of the defending faction. There are NPCs engaging these players, your FW allies can freely travel the space without interruption and assist, no "neutral" interference to worry about, etc (aside from reps of course, but they will go suspect as soon as they start repping) Adding more "penalties" would make it unreasonable to attack in high-sec.
- It may not make sense from a Role Playing perspective, but it does allow for more dynamic and risky gameplay for faction warfare players (and yes, the hostile player is also at risk... probably more so than anyone else. They have simply planned ahead, stacked the odds in their favor, and are hedging their bets that no organized force will confront them). Even in high-sec a FW player is not supposed to feel safe. At all.
How did you Veterans start?
"Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
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Hamtai
The Forge Of Maak
2
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Posted - 2016.03.18 14:31:26 -
[12] - Quote
now the rattlesnake pilot used to tank the navy spawn, is Deelucria Warren, he is in an npc corp, sitting at dock range from Jita IV - Moon 6 - Caldari Provisions School He is not flagged, you can not attack him or his magic drone even if you are in militia
How long that comedy will continue? |
George Gouillot
Black Fox Marauders
95
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Posted - 2016.03.18 15:03:57 -
[13] - Quote
Hamtai wrote:now the rattlesnake pilot used to tank the navy spawn, is Deelucria Warren, he is in an npc corp, sitting at dock range from Jita IV - Moon 6 - Caldari Provisions School He is not flagged, you can not attack him or his magic drone even if you are in militia
How long that comedy will continue?
But you can attack the pilot who is in enemy militia and farming the kills. It is not that difficult. |
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
108
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Posted - 2016.03.21 00:12:25 -
[14] - Quote
You have some nerve. 1.0 systems spawn the biggest police response...hek is a .5 garnering the smallest response.
You arguably have the best fw camping grounds in the game, and you come to the forums to complain about it?
Really, get over it....now you know how the corps that are perma-decced feel. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
612
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Posted - 2016.03.21 13:49:51 -
[15] - Quote
Go to lowsec.
Black Fox Marauders is Recruiting
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ALUCARD 1208
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
437
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Posted - 2016.03.21 15:05:12 -
[16] - Quote
Nader Ardeshir wrote:. I was told that it is not an exploit yet, and to make a forum post so the issue gets attention and may be designated an exploit in the future.
Just like the other 200 whiney threads on this???? just cos people dont understand a mechanic they instantly cry exploit
BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
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Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
297
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Posted - 2016.03.22 08:20:55 -
[17] - Quote
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:Nader Ardeshir wrote:. I was told that it is not an exploit yet, and to make a forum post so the issue gets attention and may be designated an exploit in the future.
Just like the other 200 whiney threads on this???? just cos people dont understand a mechanic they instantly cry exploit
I do understand the mechanic, but that still doesn't make it okay. Having some off grid abandoned drones taking the aggro for the guy camping the station doesn't make sense at all. Why would the militia police continue to shoot his abandoned drone instead of focusing on the WT itself? It's a broken mechanic that is being exploited by players to benefit themselves in highsec because it's a broken mechanic.
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
713
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Posted - 2016.03.22 15:59:18 -
[18] - Quote
At this point they should just get rid of "Faction Police" entirely. Replace them with more NPC "convoys" or whatever for flavor, but get rid of the expectation that NPCs will mount meaningful opposition to Militia capsuleers. Maybe enforce docking lockouts throughout highsec for NPC stations.
What I don't like is being essentially cut off by NPCs from all of the content in Caldari or Amarr space, including live events, because I chose to join a militia. If they ever follow through "4 Way FW" it'll be even worse. Maybe I wouldn't mind as much if all of the live content wasn't Amarr of Caldari these days.
It should be up to players to defend Empire space from other players. That'd be way more fun. |
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