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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33334
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Posted - 2016.02.14 22:14:56 -
[361] - Quote
There's a toggle camera look at shortcut, but after assigning it a key, it doesn't work.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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KIller Wabbit
Unleashed' Fury Imminent Threat
935
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:14:58 -
[362] - Quote
Ashterothi wrote:Alea wrote:
If some of the devs would actually play the game that they write code for none of this sh1tstorm would be happening.
Fun fact: it is almost no where true where the person writing the code is also writing the requirements. *snipping out detailed process of feedback collection and recording* I only say this to offer clarity to what is going on behind the scenes of this big discussion.
Doesn't matter what process they are using to collect player thoughts - it isn't working.
Some actual experience using the things they are messing with would go a long way in stopping the implementation of just plain bad ideas. For example - they changed notifications to add a red flag for every toon that does not have an active skill queue, even if one of the toons on the account is actually training. Anyone that **actually** plays the game more than once a week would know that was a very (insert derogatory word here that ISD won't get their panties wadded over) thing to implement. It's annoying and promotes that CCP is just going for money grabs right now.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33336
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:15:49 -
[363] - Quote
a new shortcut menu tab of consolidated camera controls would be greeeat thaaaanks
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Natural CloneKiller
The Phoenix Rising Vendetta Mercenary Group
51
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:39:21 -
[364] - Quote
Conjaq wrote:I like the idea, and i welcome a new camera. but.....
* The scroll speed when zooming in and out, is uncontrollable * The camera movement orbit function feels sluggish....
And worst of all * I get nausea using it.. Rendering it completely impossible to use.
I agree the new camera movement is terrible. Personally I went straight back to the old one as pvp with that new camera was shocking.
Please do not get ride of the old one.
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Gary Webb
Apex Syndicates Limited Expectations
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:39:30 -
[365] - Quote
I dont know if this has already been mentioned, I'm at work and dont have time to read all the comments.
First: The new camera zooms you all the way into the back of your ship when you undock. Personally I hate this. It is also very unnerving when undocking a jump freighter and other large ships. Other than that, the orbit camera is great.
Second: Yaw needs to be added to first person camera. and Full 360 degree pitch. I know it could be disorenting but it severly limits the capabilities of manual piloting when you cannot do a full roll or loop. you hit that 180 degree barrier.
Third and final: on the mass targeting (holding CTRL+click drag) to drag the square in space, that square should only target active overview settings. Trying to use it for anyhting other than savlage is impossible, especially on the pirate gate havens. I end up with a full row of snake astroid targets. I also hate the lack of the automatic tracking of selected target and no custom tracking positions! this makes PVP extremely difficult as you cant just click the enemy on the overview and have it snap right to them!
Please fix these issues! these camera are a great addition but they have a bunch of minor annoyances, |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
76
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:47:54 -
[366] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:a new shortcut menu tab of consolidated camera controls would be greeeat thaaaanks
Yeah, the old shortcuts are there but they don-¦t work. Problem seems to be, the new shortcuts are no real shortcuts. You have to hold the "track" shortcut and click or you have to hit it twice. Plus it "track" doesn-¦t work on the map. And if you track sth and open the d-scan map the cam is not aligned to the object you are tracking.
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Calavoow2
Catastrophic Overview Failure
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:50:00 -
[367] - Quote
Let me just reiterate my post in the february feedback thread in the proper topic (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6332437#post6332437)
Calavoow2 wrote: When tracking an ship in space with the new camera, the camera stops tracking the ship as soon as the user presses warp to somewhere. This means you can see when someone presses warp to when you are tracking a ship. But most importantly, you cannot track where people are warping any more with the tracking camera. You used to be able to track a ship until it disappeared off grid, so that you could get a good sense of direction where they warped (the middle of the screen would point at it).
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Officer Pressly
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 22:58:37 -
[368] - Quote
This is important:
1 - Toggle tracking camera on and off. This functionality, is THE functunality affecting my gameplay every time i play the game. Giving me 2-3 extra klicks everytime I am searching for something, is not working for me.
2 - When tracking Object, camera offsets from ship. Litterally Bounces. I can not see how this is good in any scenario. I'm very dependent due to my gameplay, to keep a Visual track of my ships state, and at the same time be able to fast track what is happening in Space Close and further away, having a camera bob back and forth, is VERY BAD. |
Teinyhr
Ourumur
549
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 23:51:57 -
[369] - Quote
I have no need for the camera tracking feature personally, never have and probably never will. Why is it taking such an inordinate amount of space on my GUI I will never understand. Okay, fine, rewrite the code. But can I just get the current type of camera i.e. one that does not simulate tracking and foul up aspect ratio whenever it feels like it. And please make it so it can remember settings, because readjusting the camera after every jump will get annoying fast. How something like that got past testing is another thing I can't understand. |
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.14 23:56:12 -
[370] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:I have no need for the camera tracking feature personally, never have and probably never will. Why is it taking such an inordinate amount of space on my GUI I will never understand. Okay, fine, rewrite the code. But can I just get the current type of camera i.e. one that does not simulate tracking and foul up aspect ratio whenever it feels like it. And please make it so it can remember settings, because readjusting the camera after every jump will get annoying fast. How something like that got past testing is another thing I can't understand. It didn't get past testing. This is testing. |
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Octavius Gaius
nul-li-fy I N F A M O U S
0
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Posted - 2016.02.15 01:13:44 -
[371] - Quote
Why does the new camera have less "FOV Zoom in" (ALT+Mouse-wheel) then the old camera (ctrl+L+R mouse)? I hope its not because people complained about "Low res. sky-box" so ccp just reduced maximum zoom in, instead of fixing sky box.
I am one of those players that always used tactical overlay. I find it ridiculous that with new camera I CAN NOT change my field of view in the tactical camera I have to switch to orbital camera first then alt+mouse-wheel, WHY?
With old camera I could center tracking position for d-scanning or create custom tracking position all from my HUD. How do I do this with new?
Also most Importantly why cant I toggle tracking camera ON or off this is the worst.
Lots of glitches, shacking camera, camera gets left behind when I warp, If I am in map mode and I jump my map moves on me. And much more!
Besides being more cinematic then the old camera the new camera Is a Huge step backwards in terms of functionality. Very much like the new map, if i set new map to jumps or kills per hr. EVERYTHING is the same color between 1-100 kills or jumps (not enough color variation) but the new map is still optional in a month the new camera will be mandatory Please fix the problems before doing this!
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Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
360
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 01:51:00 -
[372] - Quote
OK last we heard, they wanted us to check out the V scan option. So I have.
Before people keep talking about tracking camera try out the v click option, and then imagine if that was toggleable to just happen whenever you clicked on something. Would that be better? Worse? Why?
Second, I did have a bug, I tried to bind it to MOUSE3 to make it so I just click both buttons for a scan, well when I do that then the game acts as if the modifier key is always pressed so I get a yellow bounding box, and it tries to dscan whatever I click. Setting it back to V corrects the issue.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
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Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 02:58:01 -
[373] - Quote
Well after some more testing I realized I was a bit wrong about why the inertia effect feels so bad. I also updated my older post. Basically I thought the inertia effect in itself was the problem, but after someone mentioned that it's already in the old camera I did another test. The old camera has some inertial drift after moving it, but it's fine because the drift is both slow and only at the end of the camera movement. The old camera starts moving at full speed instantly instead of accelerating at the beginning of the motion. On the other hand, the new camera takes some time to get up to speed, causing it to feel very sluggish and laggy. That slow acceleration at the start of the movement is most of the problem, but the drift at the end also needs a little work. The new camera seems to slow almost linearly from full speed to a stop, causing it to feel very uncontrolled and bouncy. The old camera seems like it slows down very quickly and most of the drift is at a low speed so it feels like the camera is just settling into place rather than drifting past where we want it.
Inertia on zooming is still very bad because scrolling with a mouse wheel is a much more granular operation with steps. Smoothing those steps creates a very uncomfortable disconnect between input and effect where the input is quick and precise but the effect is slow and imprecise.
Also, the more I use the camera the more I notice how slow it is to move the camera vertically. The difference between vertical sensitivity and horizontal sensitivity is very strange and feels wrong.
Now, about the V thing people keep mentioning, I can't get that to work but slowly adding lines to the dscan results window is a terrible idea. It needs to be at least 4x faster if it absolutely must be done that way, but getting the whole list instantly is still far better.
And just so nobody reading this thread gets the impression there's anyone who doesn't hate the tracking changes, let me make it clear that I too dislike having to press C on each new item. I also don't like having my ship moved to the side where there are always windows covering it.
TL;DR: Inertia on the start of camera movements is bad and makes it feel sluggish and laggy. Inertia on zooming is also bad because it's a precise operation and it doesn't feel precise with inertia. Vertical camera sensitivity should be the same as horizontal. Adding dscan results one line at a time needs to either be much, much faster or not happen. Please fix the tracking camera; it's not nice to use the way it is now.
The new camera has come a long way, but a few of those basic issues remain, making it hard to use. The proposed dscan changes really don't make up for the tracking camera being hard to use, even just for dscanning. That's not even considering its uses in combat or for getting a sense of your position in space. |
RuleoftheBone
Stellar Conundrum
25
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 03:54:53 -
[374] - Quote
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid!
GÇóTracking camera can no longer be toggled, what gives!? We are looking into this and considering solutions.
GÇóI canGÇÖt track ships once they enter the "in warp" state. This is still being discussed. Ultimately it is a game design decision.
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters
Good morning,
I confess to being slightly annoyed at the level of hubris and "take it or leave it" expressed here. It makes me question how exactly this is being play tested.
Some realistic examples from my play this weekend:
-Jump in new WH and proceed to warp to planet "XXX". While d-scanning enroute I see a Tengu. WHILE IN WARPI pivot camera and narrow dscan to 5 degrees pinning said Tengu to an anom. This all within 10-15 seconds of hopping into systems. One CANNOTaccomplish this with the new camera. Period. And this is considered a valid game design decision?
-The camera drift is ridiculous for anyone seriously trying to d-scan. It makes pinpointing things in space an exercise in frustration.
-Back to the Tengu in above scenario. I warp in to the site cloaked and find myself suddenly having to dance tactical overlay and camera to maneuver towards the target while avoiding the frigging MTU tractor beam sucking wrecks, the Tengu motoring around, Sleepers randomly running about, and random crap in the site. Again....with the new camera this becomes quite pretty....but NOT functional for normal everyday use.
Is this some sort of nerf to WH space? Or to capsuleers that actually know how to dscan? Dumbing down the game for some reason?
-Another scenario....cloaked guy hops through a gate.....dump bubble....wait...wait....all while rapidly pivoting camera that stays nice and steady in conjunction with tactical display. Target appears....pivot cam while noting on tactical....manually fly at him and lights out. This is...again...next to impossible to perform with the new camera in its current state.
Look...I appreciate the work you and the rest of the CCP crew are doing to improve the game. But in this particular instance you are doing your supporters a disservice and again.....a little dude like me is simply asking you to reconsider shoveling his down our throats without reasonable accommodation to correct the serious issues.
As always I am more than happy to prove my points to you directly in space. After 10 years in EvE operating mainly as a sneaky **** pr0 scout perhaps you might take something onboard to consider.
And for the above listed examples please see JJ Starr's killboard. Thats my other account. I never exaggerate or BS my experiences in this fine game.
Cheers
B
**edit** I am also slightly annoyed at the level of response here and having to go see more at reddit which is not my favorite place to read about EvE. These are YOUR forums......perhaps use them a bit more? And for the rude pilots in this thread....more flies with honey and all that. Insulting the devs does nothing useful. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2759
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 05:27:48 -
[375] - Quote
Alea wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:It dawned on me early Saturday evening while I was binge watching some T.V. series.
This is very similar to the outcry that came from the Overview Icon change. The one where there was a strong (on forums at least) request to at least keep the 'Classic/Legacy' Icons for those that preferred them for several reasons. How did that turn out? And as for the backhanded offer of a customizable set of icons in return for the outright removal of the old ones, umm, where are they? I can't seem to find the right clicky, tab, or drop menu to fiddle with them.
>Jeven For me those tiny icons killed my solo pvp career, I still can't see those tiny bastards very well at all, specially if there are allot of pilots on grid, had new glasses made just to help me play Eve but still my eyesight is too bad, CCP pretty much let us players with bad eyesight down. I still pvp with my alliance but that's the extent of it, I'm a CAP pilot my choice so I can take more time to "find" who I'm supposed to be lobbing projectiles at, if I was in anything smaller I would not be able to pvp at all I don't think.
why is it so hard to not sort by pilots name and ignore the icons? if you asre in fleet and the fc says 'dareaper is primary' then who cares what the icon for my ship is? you cna also sort by type and again, ignore the icon. No real reason not to as its what you would of done anyway if the icon was still a [ ]. There i fixed your icon issues, you are welcome
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
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DaReaper
Net 7
2759
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 05:37:56 -
[376] - Quote
Alea wrote:DaReaper wrote:As an aside:
to everyone pissing and moaning that ccp should play there game and then they would know what you all are talking about. Re: tracking camera, i have played eve for 12 years, scanned a lot of that and i have no ******* idea what you all are whining about with tracking. The new camera works just how i always used said camera. This is why they ask for videos and pictures, just because you and the guys you fly with use a tool a certain way, doesn't mean others do as well. This is why its best to show them what you are doing and how you are using things so they can understand what the **** you are talking about.
Stop being idiots and bitching at the devs and give them evidence of what is broken so they can try and fix it. Sheesh If some of the devs would actually play the game that they write code for none of this sh1tstorm would be happening.
a lot of devs do play. That doesn't mean they play the same way you do. again for example, i am a 12 year vet, ex alliance leaders tho owned a few constellations, i was one of the first corps to colonize WH's. I currently scan every single day.
1) i have no issues with the camera, they fixed my initial problems in the first pass.
2) i never once used 'c' for anything on dscan.
3) i have no idea what the hell you all are bitching about, and just found out that 'v' in the test server does something cool that i did not know exist.
Devs program and maybe they don;t play the same way you do, in the same situation, with the same setup as you. This is why feedback needs to be constructive, because they too are human, and don;t do the same things as everyone else. And we find ways to play in way that a dev or programmer who doesn't play the same way might not know.
For example, one of Hilmars fav stories is can mining. when eve started he joined a corp to see how players were doing things. And discovered we were using can in an unintended way. He freaked out, until he realized we were using it in a good way. Dev and programs can;t always predict what a person is going to do. And looking at a design document with a set of numbers like '10% of players use this feature" they go 'well we can remove it then.' not realizing the impact on said design.
Hence images, video, descriptions is better. And they may change something because of factors you have no idea about, which won;t become apparent till later. OR they change things for the hell of it and need to be told why what they did is bad.
really not that hard.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
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Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
6
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 06:01:00 -
[377] - Quote
Exactly. Ranting and raving and threatening to quit over changes does help a little in that it helps to make the scope of the problems apparent. However, to actually fix the problems devs need to know specifically what's wrong and figure out how to fix it. That however leads to our current situation where everyone and their mom wants the tracking camera to be a mode toggle instead of a command but the devs don't change it. At this point it should be obvious what the problem is and how to fix it, but they're not fixing it. That's pretty much the only case where ranting and raving and threatening to quit the game can accomplish anything.
For the rest of the issues as well as this one we need to be constructive and actually narrow down the cause of the problem as closely as possible, and ideally offer solutions. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Fifty Shades of Funkyness LLC
358
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 06:13:54 -
[378] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Alea wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:It dawned on me early Saturday evening while I was binge watching some T.V. series.
This is very similar to the outcry that came from the Overview Icon change. The one where there was a strong (on forums at least) request to at least keep the 'Classic/Legacy' Icons for those that preferred them for several reasons. How did that turn out? And as for the backhanded offer of a customizable set of icons in return for the outright removal of the old ones, umm, where are they? I can't seem to find the right clicky, tab, or drop menu to fiddle with them.
>Jeven For me those tiny icons killed my solo pvp career, I still can't see those tiny bastards very well at all, specially if there are allot of pilots on grid, had new glasses made just to help me play Eve but still my eyesight is too bad, CCP pretty much let us players with bad eyesight down. I still pvp with my alliance but that's the extent of it, I'm a CAP pilot my choice so I can take more time to "find" who I'm supposed to be lobbing projectiles at, if I was in anything smaller I would not be able to pvp at all I don't think. why is it so hard to not sort by pilots name and ignore the icons? if you asre in fleet and the fc says 'dareaper is primary' then who cares what the icon for my ship is? you cna also sort by type and again, ignore the icon. No real reason not to as its what you would of done anyway if the icon was still a [ ]. There i fixed your icon issues, you are welcome
Third try at writing a response that won't give the illusion of a personal rebuttal to a personal attack.
Failed.
To each their own view of the overview icons, camera changes, and how every FC runs a fleet op. I sincerely apologize for not being a professional multi-year Eve bad grrl PvP'er.
>Jeven
Minny boat flyer, unofficial squeaky wheel.
'Game Ethics and Morality Monitor' I remember promises.
Snark at 11-24/7/365.25. Overshare? Yup.
Yes it's my fault. And if you don't staap it I'll do it again. ;-P
No you can't has my stuffs OR my SPs.
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Danny Lonnegan
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 06:51:42 -
[379] - Quote
Gave the new camera a try in PVP on Friday. Tweaked the settings until I was reasonably comfortable with them, and had an okay time--until I clicked on the overview to look at something or D-scan something, and got frustrated because I'd forgotten to c-click again. Today I switched back to the old camera, and frankly it was a relief to have tracking behaving normally again.
Suggestions so far, then:
1) Default settings should be adjusted so the orbit camera behaves more like the old camera out of the box. EVE really doesn't need another thing to configure before you start playing. Video makers will probably want to tweak the settings to take fuller advantage of the new features, but video makers would probably have tweaked the camera anyway according to their own personal needs and tastes.
2) Really, honestly and truly, tracking should be toggled on once and left on. For fast d-scanning, for situational awareness in a fight, for just catching a glimpse of something cool, c-clicking is inadequate.
EDIT:
3) I'm not sure if the spooky music in tactical mode is a bug or intended feature, but that really should be bound to the music volume slider for people who want to turn it off. It's my understanding now that it's bound to the UI volume slider, which means, if you don't like the spooky music, choosing between gritting your teeth and bearing it, switching to another camera mode, or turning off the client's (very helpful!) array of audio signals. |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
80
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 07:50:56 -
[380] - Quote
Can someone enlighten me about the "V" shortcut? I can-¦t find anything related in the shortcut options and my shortkeys are heavily modified. |
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Varathius
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
212
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 09:36:06 -
[381] - Quote
Do not remove the option to opt for the old camera angle version please.
Changes are welcome if they are based upon positive feedback of the end-users. For instance, in aviation, HUDs (Heads up displays) were made because of pilot feedback, so the aviation industry have implemented the system on military and civil aircraft based upon pilot feedback.
So, in Eve, CCP would be the aviation industry and the players would be the pilots when comparing this to the above example.
If engineers would have made HUDs not giving a damn about pilot feedback, then guess what, pilots will just flip the HUD up and not even use it to begin with, and rely on traditional display unit instrumentation layouts. However, as engineers forcing pilots to use HUDs without having had pilot feedback, oh boy... welcome increased inefficiency, risks, etc... again, sometimes it is good to make a real life scenario for comparison.
Failure to listen to end-user feedback and blindly removing the option to enable the older version of camera angles is a SERIOUS MISTAKE.
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UberMarmalade
Prime Militia
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 09:42:25 -
[382] - Quote
I'd just like to weigh in on the whole tracking camera debate with what I've posted on reddit.
The most common use case for dscan is when jumping into a system (or already being there) and trying to locate which celestial another player is at. Without the tracking camera you no longer have the assistance of clicking on overview items to quickly be able to scan them.
The tracking camera + clicking on overview gave a quick way of locating a person by setting your dscan to a small cone, then for every celestial you want to check it's:
click overview
dscan The current version on tranquillity has replaced those two steps with:
- click overview
- press c
- wait for camera
- press dscan
or using the map:
- Locate the celestial you would like to scan on a 3d map (slower than looking at your overview)
- Open radial menu
- Press dscan[/left]
If you don't use the map version of dscan, you've got a strictly slower version of the same process (more steps + a wait)
If you use the map option, it's nice for some cases, but the negatives are:
- having to have a map open (I don't like this, I'm usually dscanning in a pvp situation so it either means using a small map window or covering up important things like modules and overview)
- Missing out on using the overview, I pick celestials based off of a list of nearby celestials in one of my overview tabs setup for the dscan task at hand, with the map option I have to find them in space
- Finding things in 3d space and clicking them is (for some common use cases) strictly worse than picking from a a list
The new options just feels super clunky compared to the previous way of doing this (to catch someone you have to be fast on dscan, so a slowdown here is a massive frustration) A quick fix might be to put that dscan menu option in some more places (but then you risk more menu bloat) |
Calima Arzi
Risk Breakers Bad Intention
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 10:38:25 -
[383] - Quote
TLDR: 1. Right click pan is _fundamental_. 2. Tracking camera, with a steady focus on what is clicked on the overview is _essential_. 3. Unsteady camera modes are clearly making players sick.
CCP Turtlepower wrote:GÇóI am not able to "look around" when holding right mouse button like I was used to. This is intended, that feature was not included in the new camera. If you use the tactical view you can look anywhere on the grid! You are intentionally removing one of the two most important features of the camera. All your players know to right click pan the camera. We all have that reflex. Removing this 'feature' will inconvenience, confuse and annoy every single player in the game. Please, I don't want to use the 'tactical view'. I want to right click pan the camera. This is one of the most fundamental things in the game. Please, please reconsider.
Secondly, please take seriously the need to restore the tracking camera, so that we can five degree dscan things by clicking on them in the overview. I'm sure that many thousands of your players do this every day. I don't want to hold 'C' down every time. I don't have that reflex and shouldn't have to learn new, clunkier ones.
Finally, while the old camera code may be difficult to maintain, as a player it is not broken. I don't want cinematics: I want things to work, and not get in the way. I don't want my camera view to sway, move around or have 'inertia'. I want it exactly as it is because as a player it is not broken and does not need fixing. By all means add 'cinematic' new features but please: I don't want them shoved down my throat.
Many thanks,
Calima
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warbds
Stoli Holdings
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 10:45:24 -
[384] - Quote
Well what do i need to say
1) warping looks awfull with the new camera 2) scanning well centering is rather difficult 3) nausea
So I went back to the old camera |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
82
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 10:57:46 -
[385] - Quote
Quote:The GÇ£Look atGÇ¥ command is now also available for items far away, but instead of the camera travelling light years, we just rotate it in place so the object is centered at the screen, which is very handy for, say, directional scanning.
I tried to wrap my head around this and it seems to work like the old tracking. So that-¦s a plus only drawback for me with this new system is, there is no switch to enable it. You always have to use a hotkey to "look at". Another thing I realised is, that "look at" doesn-¦t work on the map at all using the hotkey. So I have to click the object, click on "look at" on the selected item window and than I am able to scan.
Quote:Tracking now works in the same way as all other in-space commands work instead of having a special mode toggled on/off previously; you either click the new GÇ£TrackGÇ¥ button in the GÇ£Selected ItemGÇ¥ window, radial menu or right click menu. The shortcut key for Tracking is still the same though; C. The tracking camera implementation has also changed so that we now always keep the tracked object center-screen, while pushing the foreground object to the side as we zoom in.
Please don-¦t implement this. I am not sure who thought it would be a good idea but it is totally not. You want to track stuff from the PoV of your ship not from some undefined spot in space. Again, I am not sure who-¦s idea this was but I really like to get an explanation why this would be useful for anything? I need to track another ship in relation to my own ship. So I tried this "chase mode" that even if it would work like the old tracking is way too much stuff to do for a simple command.
Look at --> track --> camera is getting locked on the ship I am looking at and follows. And now what? I am not seeing my own ship, I can-¦t interrupt the other ships pathing, I am losing complete sense of where my own ship is. Maybe it is useful with the new fighter squadrons or so but for our everyday usage it-¦s completely useless. The description in the devblog says I can trigger it by using orbit mode. Well, I am getting triggered for sure but nothing else. I also tried this thing with looking at my own ship, tracking myself and see if it is Quote:This mode works amazingly well with manual flight! and it is totally not the case. When I am manually piloting I am moving the camera all the time, I don-¦t need to track my own ship instead I like to track the hostile ship while adjusting my point of view in relation to the enemy ship and the course. But again, maybe I simply missed some "features" so enlighten me and while you are on it please provide meaningful explanations of your features because I am starting to think you guys are over thinking a lot here and implement features that work against the player. Just as a hint, you reach perfection in coding when you can-¦t remove anything anymore while keeping the whole thing functional. Easier said than done especially with legacy code but if you rewrite something from scratch keep it simple man. I spend a lot of time now trying to figure out what you guys are trying to achieve with these features and most of it while sounding great is so much hassle to get around that it is no fun. Again, keep thing simple and functional. Your chase mode thingy is a really good example of good intention but bad implementation. I have to "look at" and "track" to have the old tracking mode. Aside from the fact that it doesn-¦t seem to work it is too much. Why can-¦t I simply "track" sth as I am used to? In what world does it make sense to unlock the camera from my ship when I am tracking an object? I am not playing Homeworld here, where this point of view made a lot of sense because I wasn-¦t flying the ship by myself I played and RTS. We don-¦t play a RTS game here with the exception of fighter squadrons where it may or may not make sense to have such tracking features.
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Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF Bad Intention
7
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Posted - 2016.02.15 11:10:40 -
[386] - Quote
Calima Arzi wrote:1. Right click pan is _fundamental_. ... You are intentionally removing one of the two most important features of the camera. All your players know to right click pan the camera. We all have that reflex. Removing this 'feature' will inconvenience, confuse and annoy every single player in the game. I think you're slightly overestimating the number of people that use it. I've never used it and I asked about 80 players in my alliance and only 4 had ever seriously tried to use it, with only 1 finding it useful. That said, it does seem like a fairly basic feature that should be kept for the people who do use it unless there's a better use for the right mouse button.
Trajan Unknown wrote: In what world does it make sense to unlock the camera from my ship when I am tracking an object? I am not playing Homeworld here, where this point of view made a lot of sense because I wasn-¦t flying the ship by myself I played and RTS. We don-¦t play a RTS game here with the exception of fighter squadrons where it may or may not make sense to have such tracking features. I'm not sure what you're saying, but if you mean looking at something other than your ship then tracking something, why do you care? That's a completely optional feature that seems like it could be useful for some people who want to get a better perspective. |
Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops
82
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Posted - 2016.02.15 11:22:48 -
[387] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Calima Arzi wrote:1. Right click pan is _fundamental_. ... You are intentionally removing one of the two most important features of the camera. All your players know to right click pan the camera. We all have that reflex. Removing this 'feature' will inconvenience, confuse and annoy every single player in the game. I think you're slightly overestimating the number of people that use it. I've never used it and I asked about 80 players in my alliance and only 4 had ever seriously tried to use it, with only 1 finding it useful. That said, it does seem like a fairly basic feature that should be kept for the people who do use it unless there's a better use for the right mouse button. Trajan Unknown wrote: In what world does it make sense to unlock the camera from my ship when I am tracking an object? I am not playing Homeworld here, where this point of view made a lot of sense because I wasn-¦t flying the ship by myself I played and RTS. We don-¦t play a RTS game here with the exception of fighter squadrons where it may or may not make sense to have such tracking features. I'm not sure what you're saying, but if you mean looking at something other than your ship then tracking an object, why do you care? That's a completely optional feature that seems like it could be useful for some people who want to get a better perspective. If you're talking about how the camera moves to the side of your ship when tracking something, yeah that's pretty bad.
Maybe I expressed myself a little too unclear, sorry about that. :)
With the old camera you could track objects correct? So let-¦s say you are flying around with me and I am tracking you then the camera will follow your ship in space. You can "draw" a line from my ship to your ship so my ship is the center and you are "flying" around me. With the new camera I am tracking your ship from an undefined (for me undefined) point in space instead of using my ship as the centerpoint. So instead of being able to draw a line from my ship to your ship and getting a good understanding of distance, speed and your course in space I am getting lost. I made a quick .jepeg to show what I mean. Again, maybe there is a way to use tracking like we are used to with the old camera but if there is it seems to be a little too hidden for my taste. Tracking
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Commander Freemason
CONES MINING INC
0
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Posted - 2016.02.15 11:56:23 -
[388] - Quote
SOME FUCKHEAD PROGRAMMER WANTED IT TO LOOK LIKE BATTLESTAR GALACTICA AND ALL THE FUCKHEADS IN DEVELOPMENT HAD NOTHING NEW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND KLAPED THERE SMALL CORPATE FAT HANDS. (THEY WERE PISSING AND SWEATING THEIR PANTS FOR NOT COMMING UP WITH ANYTHING ! NEW ! AT ALL. SKINS AND AUR BUYS. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK THIS ALL SUCKS BALLS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Calrik Aakiwa
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
0
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Posted - 2016.02.15 12:27:23 -
[389] - Quote
Commander Freemason wrote:SOME FUCKHEAD PROGRAMMER WANTED IT TO LOOK LIKE BATTLESTAR GALACTICA AND ALL THE FUCKHEADS IN DEVELOPMENT HAD NOTHING NEW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND KLAPED THERE SMALL CORPATE FAT HANDS. (THEY WERE PISSING AND SWEATING THEIR PANTS FOR NOT COMMING UP WITH ANYTHING ! NEW ! AT ALL. SKINS AND AUR BUYS. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK THIS ALL SUCKS BALLS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You mad bro? Remember #broadcast4reps
There are some bugs that need to be ironed out but I welcome the change. It is growing on me. Having said that Im lucky I am not one who gets motion sickness and I did find it hard to figure out where my cloaked ship was and what direction it was pointing in a big 400man tidi fight the other day. Don't see the need for so much agro though with this much hate towards the developers Im sure this game won't miss you. |
Calima Arzi
Risk Breakers Bad Intention
10
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Posted - 2016.02.15 13:13:20 -
[390] - Quote
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:Calima Arzi wrote:1. Right click pan is _fundamental_. I think you're slightly overestimating the number of people that use it. I've never used it and I asked about 80 players in my alliance and only 4 had ever seriously tried to use it, with only 1 finding it useful. That said, it does seem like a fairly basic feature that should be kept for the people who do use it unless there's a better use for the right mouse button. Hi Miss! I wasn't around at the time you asked, or that would be five that had seriously tried to use it, and two that found it useful. Did you really get seventy five responses of 'do not right click pan'?
Maybe I'm missing something. When I undock after logging in, the camera starts zoomed right into my ship. Much too far: all I can see are ship innards. Behind that, a lot of space station. I need to right click in space to find an insta-warp bookmark but at the beginning there is no space: only ship innards and station. So I zoom out, pan left of right, right click space > warp off before my undock timer expires. Am I alone in that?
Or: maybe I kill something and want to see my new killmark. So I zoom in and then right click > pan around my ship trying to find the new tiny killmark. You don't do that?
Or: I'm in a fight and want to get between my target and a gate: I pan the camera to help me understand where things are in space. Or a data site, moving between cans. Or moving around outside a station to make an insta-dock. Or anything that requires moving around in space: I need to pan the camera to help me see where I am relative to other things. Seriously, other people don't do these things too? What do they do instead? What have I been missing, these last two years?
-- C |
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