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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 12:54:52 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings fellow spaceship pilots!
I bring you news from the Jita system, 4-4 station.
Skill Injectors are currently on a sharp downward price trajectory as ISK hungry players extract their unwanted mining skillpoints and place them on the market. The flood of sell orders has not been matched, initially at least, with buyers.
This has resulted in prices falling from 1.5bn to (at the time of writing) 630m. In other words, it is rapidly becoming a buyers market as people dump spare SP and seek a quick profit.
But here's the thing: these buying conditions can only happen once. You can't extract unwanted SP a second time. The initial flood will become a trickle. Will supply and demand then rebalance? Can immediate demand be satisfied by the slow trickle of SP from alts?
What will happen next to Skill Injector prices? Reports from Amarr suggest an upward trajectory after bottoming out at 680m, then rising to 730m.
Stay tuned for more Jita Market Updates. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:15:46 -
[2] - Quote
Update: Injector prices are now RISING, up 10% in the last 15 minutes to 660m
PLEX prices are going through the roof. Up to 1.35bn now
It's market carnage |
Malcolm from Marketing
Klaatu Technologies
101
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:16:52 -
[3] - Quote
Its not carnage if you planned well in advance and put your money on the right horse |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:22:26 -
[4] - Quote
Update: This is a rollercoaster
Injector prices are now soaring upwards again. Rising another 15% to 730m.
Meanwhile, in Amarr, prices are crashing to 660m as initial oversupply floods the local market
What will happen when primetime hits? The only certainty is this incredible volatity
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Chasida
Instant Annihilation Northern Army
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:25:40 -
[5] - Quote
What is the price on empty Skill Extractors? |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17313
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Looking forwards to this bubble.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Syna Anima
SYNDAX CORPORATION Yulai Federation
55
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:30:09 -
[7] - Quote
Nice thread, what are the current buy/sell PLEX prices in Jita?
EVE central has NONE on market... wtf?
https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=29668
Gÿà Join us today! Gÿà
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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:38:35 -
[8] - Quote
PLEX prices are currently 1.30bn
Skill Extractors have currently stabilized in the Jita market at 330m
Skill Extractors should eventually sell for a simple AUR->ISK conversion, as they are not supply limited unlike trained SP.
Skill injectors are still incredibly volatile, moving between 700-750m in both Jita and Amarr in rapid price movements.
Volumes for sale are however low. In the whole of Jita there are perhaps less than 100 skill injectors for sale. It won't take much for prices to soar upwards. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
4947
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:48:43 -
[9] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/c05rt0K.jpg
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:48:57 -
[10] - Quote
UPDATE: VAST quantities of Skill Extractors are being traded. The price in Amarr rocketed up to 380m after over 400 were purchased in a few minutes.
Meanwhile, Skill Injectors are being traded at lower volume.
Less than 10 Skill Injectors are on the market in Amarr at the time of writing - it will take only a few transactions to sent prices soaring again.
Or are all those purchased extractors being filled? Will the market soon be flooded with Skill Injectors? Stay tuned to find out |
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Anyura
Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit
146
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 13:52:03 -
[11] - Quote
It's when we start seeing people injecting Trade skills that things get really interesting..... |
Nuclear Nut Zack
CK-0FF Bad Intention
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:05:01 -
[12] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:But here's the thing: these buying conditions can only happen once. You can't extract unwanted SP a second time. Unless of course you don't need any more SP, in which case you can extract unwanted SP every couple weeks. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:09:59 -
[13] - Quote
Nuclear Nut Zack wrote:Kalgeroth wrote:But here's the thing: these buying conditions can only happen once. You can't extract unwanted SP a second time. Unless of course you don't need any more SP, in which case you can extract unwanted SP every couple weeks.
Exactly my friend - a trickle, not a flood. What price impatience and immediate SP gained?
Current Market Update: lower levels of availability on Injectors continue to drive price volatility, with prices hovering around the 700m mark in Jita and Amarr
Skill Extractors are far more numerous in volume. There is the possibility of over-supply and a price crash if the number coming to market continues to increase.
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Nuclear Nut Zack
CK-0FF Bad Intention
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:17:11 -
[14] - Quote
Keep in mind that the majority of Eve players haven't even logged in yet since the patch, so there's likely to be a constant flow of injectors for the next few days as people log in and try to sell SP. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:21:08 -
[15] - Quote
Nuclear Nut Zack wrote:Keep in mind that the majority of Eve players haven't even logged in yet since the patch, so there's likely to be a constant flow of injectors for the next few days as people log in and try to sell SP.
I have underlined the part we both agree on.
I personally expect prices to climb more steeply around the 2-3 week mark, before SP farming alts come fully online and demand for immediate skill gains outstrips supply. |
Lasisha Mishi
Touch of Death
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:21:54 -
[16] - Quote
west coast is now waking up
influx of plex/ extractor/ injector expected in the next 2 hours. and then again in the next 9.5 hours(aka when working people get off work on west coast US) |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:27:39 -
[17] - Quote
Lasisha Mishi wrote:west coast is now waking up
influx of plex/ extractor/ injector expected in the next 2 hours. and then again in the next 9.5 hours(aka when working people get off work on west coast US)
You are right
Skill Injector prices in Jita are now down 20% in the last 30 minutes, to 650m each.
Some may see this is a good buying opportunity. Others may wish to hope for a further drop. The only thing for sure, is that none of us know where these prices will end up.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3754
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:34:04 -
[18] - Quote
At present prices of injectors and extractors: Eve is now Free to Play.
Train skill. Buy extractor from the market, with ISK. Fill extractor Sell extractor. Repeat 4 times a month Result: Sufficient ISK profit to get a PLEX.
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Frozen fanfiction
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2394
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:36:45 -
[19] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:At present prices of injectors and extractors: Eve is now Free to Play.
Train skill. Buy extractor from the market, with ISK. Fill extractor Sell extractor. Repeat 4 times a month Result: Sufficient ISK profit to get a PLEX.
So pretty much like any isk making activity in eve?
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4653
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:36:50 -
[20] - Quote
Placed a few orders... nothign extravagant, less than 10 million ISK in lost fees if they fail.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:37:30 -
[21] - Quote
Vincent, you are correct. However PLEX prices in this situation will rise accordingly. Indeed, it's already happening
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Lasisha Mishi
Touch of Death
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:38:46 -
[22] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:At present prices of injectors and extractors: Eve is now Free to Play.
Train skill. Buy extractor from the market, with ISK. Fill extractor Sell extractor. Repeat 4 times a month Result: Sufficient ISK profit to get a PLEX. so an alternate way of getting plex
but..for the price of 2 extractors....your already half way to a plex. and if you do it 4 times a month. the price of the extractors alone is more than a plex (4 extractors > 1 plex in price)
=/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3754
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:48:51 -
[23] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:At present prices of injectors and extractors: Eve is now Free to Play.
Train skill. Buy extractor from the market, with ISK. Fill extractor Sell extractor. Repeat 4 times a month Result: Sufficient ISK profit to get a PLEX. So pretty much like any isk making activity in eve? Except training skills is not really an "activity". You do not do anything to accumulate SP, it just happens. There is a small amount of activity to cycle the injectors, extractors, and set the skill in the queue, but as a ISK making "activity" its very low effort.
I predict this will not last. The demand for PLEX is greater than the demand for SP, and the prices will adjust to where a month worth of SP will be worth less than one PLEX, but the price of just the injectors, (a sufficient number to hold a month of SP) will be more than a PLEX.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
191
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:52:24 -
[24] - Quote
EVE was also F2P using the character bazaar.
Buy PLEX to activate account Train alt Sell alt Profit
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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 14:53:16 -
[25] - Quote
Everyone seems to forget that you cannot extract SP from an alt until they are over 5.5million SP
It's going to take 3 months before we see more SP coming onto the market, after people have extracted unwanted skills in the first few days.
People will pay a premium for instant gratification. After the initial volatility, prices are going only one way: upward. For 3 months at least. |
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
191
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:00:21 -
[26] - Quote
Yeah, I know loads of people who want to make a 1 day old carrier alt. I think demand for injectors will be HUGE and will soon out-strip supply- which means a very high cost. Get em while they're cheap boys and girls!
|
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
453
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:01:16 -
[27] - Quote
What a disaster this is turning into. So it appears CCP botched the prices up afterall. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3754
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:01:56 -
[28] - Quote
If I was going to fund my account by selling SP, I'd milk my main, not an alt. If a month of SP does cost more than a PLEX, people will SP farm on their high SP pilots, and the price will fall.
And Jita local is just going silly nuts.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:08:50 -
[29] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: If a month of SP does cost more than a PLEX, people will SP farm on their high SP pilots, and the price will fall.
If this happens, the demand for PLEX increases and the price goes up. People will use PLEX purely to farm SP to sell, increasing demand.
There is a direct correlation between the two things and they will be interdependent on one another.
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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:12:47 -
[30] - Quote
MARKET UPDATE:
Over 5000 Skill injectors have been traded on the Jita market in 3 hours Average price is 678m ISK
Over 700 Skill injectors have been traded on the Amarr market in 3 hours Average price is 708m ISK
Skill extractor prices are falling due to huge initial oversupply. Current Jita price of 306m. |
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Memphis Baas
1093
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:21:27 -
[31] - Quote
What's the total extractor volume thus far? Trying to figure out how much $$ CCP got thus far. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:23:03 -
[32] - Quote
Currently no live data on extractor volume. But it is HIGH. Thousands being bought and sold each hour. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:37:36 -
[33] - Quote
MARKET UPDATE:
6745 Skill Extractors traded through 2597 orders in Jita over last 3.5 hours Average price of 318m ISK
No data yet for Amarr.
Prices of Skill Injectors currently on upward trajectory in Jita - sitting at 680m. Strong price resistance around the 650/660m mark and rising, supported by large buy-orders and bulk purchases. |
Lasisha Mishi
Touch of Death
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:37:46 -
[34] - Quote
i should point out that theres a considerable amount of hauling going from various Jita Markets to Amarr Markets where people are buying extractors/injectors low, and selling in the higher priced markets.
so some of these purchases are going back up for sale.
if anyone is up for some suicide ganking, its a potential trade of a 20mill+ stealth bomber for a 300mill extractor (even if game shows extractor's estimated price as 10 isk)
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Princess Honneamise
55
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:06:22 -
[35] - Quote
i just wish to add a side note on 1000 Aurum tokens.
they are crashing from 627 M yesterday to 580 M at the moment .
1000 aur ( 580 M ) = 1 extractor ( 312 M )
EVE MOONS PROJECT
http://eve-moons.com
The EVE MOONS PROJECT is the most complete and accurate moons database for Eve Online
|
S'Way
1268
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:24:31 -
[36] - Quote
Aptenodytes wrote:Yeah, I know loads of people who want to make a 1 day old carrier alt.
I'm waiting for the first thread in GD from some new player who used injectors on their 1 day old character then welped a carrier (or bigger) ship.....it can't be long now. |
Abda
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:37:33 -
[37] - Quote
I was in dodixe, and they were going for 780M+ But, of course, not as fast. |
Jack Theisant
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:49:23 -
[38] - Quote
...and correct me if I'm wrong, but if one is going to "milk an ALT" (which sounds like a fun way to spend a Saturday night), you can only take them down to 5,500,000 SP, right? Because any lower, and you don't meet the minimum to use an extractor?
Or if you have +5.5 million, you can use as many as you want? Still unclear on that. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3756
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:08:27 -
[39] - Quote
Jack Theisant wrote:...and correct me if I'm wrong, but if one is going to "milk an ALT" (which sounds like a fun way to spend a Saturday night), you can only take them down to 5,500,000 SP, right? Because any lower, and you don't meet the minimum to use an extractor?
Or if you have +5.5 million, you can use as many as you want? Still unclear on that. Somewhere a Dev said you cannot go below 5.5 mil.
And yes, the market will adjust by both skill items prices and PLEX prices changing.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Berrice Silf
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
65
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:08:47 -
[40] - Quote
Jack Theisant wrote:...and correct me if I'm wrong, but if one is going to "milk an ALT" (which sounds like a fun way to spend a Saturday night), you can only take them down to 5,500,000 SP, right? Because any lower, and you don't meet the minimum to use an extractor?
Or if you have +5.5 million, you can use as many as you want? Still unclear on that.
5.5 mill will allow you to use 1 extractor but with the right setup and skill training on said alt you can relieve it of 500k every 8 days roughly |
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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:10:40 -
[41] - Quote
Jack Theisant wrote:...and correct me if I'm wrong, but if one is going to "milk an ALT" (which sounds like a fun way to spend a Saturday night), you can only take them down to 5,500,000 SP, right? Because any lower, and you don't meet the minimum to use an extractor?
Or if you have +5.5 million, you can use as many as you want? Still unclear on that.
Yes, and this is why we are about to enter a huge Injector price bubble.
People will dump all their unwanted SP in the first few days, then there will be a trickle from those willing to sell SP they earn on existing chars for ~3 months before the additional SP farming alts get over 5.5m SP. In the meantime, prices are likely to go up up up. |
Jack Theisant
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:11:30 -
[42] - Quote
Roger that - thanks all. |
N00B-SAIB0T
MK Financial
24
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:18:10 -
[43] - Quote
I appreciate the updates on pricing. If you could continue to update on Extractor pricing throughout the day, that would be great. I need to buy like 67 of them to bring my alt down to 5.5 million and then biomass it. This is going to take some careful timing and observation of their pricing throughout the next few days.
What's the proper name for the Extractor? I can't seem to locate it on EVE-Central. |
Berrice Silf
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:21:28 -
[44] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Jack Theisant wrote:...and correct me if I'm wrong, but if one is going to "milk an ALT" (which sounds like a fun way to spend a Saturday night), you can only take them down to 5,500,000 SP, right? Because any lower, and you don't meet the minimum to use an extractor?
Or if you have +5.5 million, you can use as many as you want? Still unclear on that. Yes, and this is why we are about to enter a huge Injector price bubble. People will dump all their unwanted SP in the first few days, then there will be a trickle from those willing to sell SP they earn on existing chars for ~3 months before the additional SP farming alts get over 5.5m SP. In the meantime, prices are likely to go up up up.
You will find since the original blog about this people have been firing up their alts / farms and have have over 2 months to prepare for this - Cyber 5 / +5's and find a long ass skill and now they will be purging on a weekly basis. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:22:31 -
[45] - Quote
MARKET UPDATE
Jita Injectors: 671m, rising Extractors: 307m, falling
Amarr Injectors: 706m, falling Extractors: 336m, steady |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:25:13 -
[46] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote:
You will find since the original blog about this people have been firing up their alts / farms and have have over 2 months to prepare for this - Cyber 5 / +5's and find a long ass skill and now they will be purging on a weekly basis.
Yes indeed, so after the initial rush of supply we're still back to the fact that SP farming alts won't be producing SP they can sell for at least a month and more like three months for most people.
My advice for those who want to buy SP would be to do it NOW while prices are reasonable, or wait three months until the bubble pops.
|
Ria Nieyli
40505
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:40:17 -
[47] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Berrice Silf wrote:
You will find since the original blog about this people have been firing up their alts / farms and have have over 2 months to prepare for this - Cyber 5 / +5's and find a long ass skill and now they will be purging on a weekly basis.
Yes indeed, so after the initial rush of supply we're still back to the fact that SP farming alts won't be producing SP they can sell for at least a month and more like three months for most people. My advice for those who want to buy SP would be to do it NOW while prices are reasonable, or wait three months until the bubble pops.
What you're not taking into account is cheap characters on the bazaar that can be stripped of SP. If you're farming SP on an alt, excluding the overhead to get to 5m, the production price of an injector would be 49% of PLEX price. You can certainly go below that by buying up characters from the bazaar. |
Berrice Silf
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:44:08 -
[48] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Kalgeroth wrote:Berrice Silf wrote:
You will find since the original blog about this people have been firing up their alts / farms and have have over 2 months to prepare for this - Cyber 5 / +5's and find a long ass skill and now they will be purging on a weekly basis.
Yes indeed, so after the initial rush of supply we're still back to the fact that SP farming alts won't be producing SP they can sell for at least a month and more like three months for most people. My advice for those who want to buy SP would be to do it NOW while prices are reasonable, or wait three months until the bubble pops. What you're not taking into account is cheap characters on the bazaar that can be stripped of SP. If you're farming SP on an alt, excluding the overhead to get to 5m, the production price of an injector would be 49% of PLEX price. You can certainly go below that by buying up characters from the bazaar.
With skill points themselves now have a discerning value and not how the character has been trained, everything will rise and adjust accordingly.
There will be no cheap indie / manu / mining toons theyre just sacks ready to be harvested and farmed on. |
Ria Nieyli
40505
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:47:27 -
[49] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote:With skill points themselves now have a discerning value and not how the character has been trained, everything will rise and adjust accordingly.
There will be no cheap indie / manu / mining toons theyre just sacks ready to be harvested and farmed on.
Eventually, but it will take some time for the supply of those to get used up by entrepreneurs. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
52
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:52:11 -
[50] - Quote
http://eveboard.com/pilot/CapRed wins highest Average SP/Hour with 80,322.65!
A whole new contest!!!
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Abda
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 17:57:05 -
[51] - Quote
...On how badly you can waste SP? Explosive Shield comp 5? Really? Does he know it only words for passive mods, not invuls? |
Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:00:11 -
[52] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Berrice Silf wrote:
You will find since the original blog about this people have been firing up their alts / farms and have have over 2 months to prepare for this - Cyber 5 / +5's and find a long ass skill and now they will be purging on a weekly basis.
Yes indeed, so after the initial rush of supply we're still back to the fact that SP farming alts won't be producing SP they can sell for at least a month and more like three months for most people. My advice for those who want to buy SP would be to do it NOW while prices are reasonable, or wait three months until the bubble pops.
A farming alt produces 1 injector in 184 hours. The farms are already up and running. Prices are currently 644 mln and moving towards current production cost (623.7 mln ISK). But I guess, you are by far underestimating the amount of available skillpoints. Every charcter offered on Bazaar is a potential SP mine.
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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2016.02.09 18:03:32 -
[53] - Quote
However you look at it, there is 'instant supply' from unwanted SP earnt over years.
This is the initial supply rush.
SP farms need a little more time to push out SP to the market, as you cannot extract below 5.5m (meaning you need 6m SP to extract 500k).
What does this mean? An initial rush of pent up supply (including from poor characters in the bazaar), and then: a trickle. |
Ria Nieyli
40507
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:07:25 -
[54] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:However you look at it, there is 'instant supply' from unwanted SP earnt over years. This is the initial supply rush. SP farms need a little more time to push out SP to the market, as you cannot extract below 5.5m (meaning you need 6m SP to extract 500k). What does this mean? An initial rush of pent up supply (including from poor characters in the bazaar), and then: a trickle.
Same goes for demand too. Demand on patch day is going to be an order of magnitude higher than in the following weeks. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
60
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:10:16 -
[55] - Quote
Skill Extractor (Jita) Average so far 313,636,016.84 ISK Skill Injector (Jita) Average so far 670,021,881.51 ISK
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
299
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:10:30 -
[56] - Quote
I love the speculation speculation. Not participating, just watching.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
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Jack Theisant
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:11:43 -
[57] - Quote
Just sold an extractor in Essence for 499,000,000. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:14:41 -
[58] - Quote
MARKET UPDATE:
Skill Injector prices in Jita in sudden downward trajectory as fresh EU Primetime supply hits the market.
Current price: 618m and falling
Expect this to recover quickly, prices in Amarr still at 680m |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:15:59 -
[59] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Same goes for demand too. Demand on patch day is going to be an order of magnitude higher than in the following weeks.
Demand for shiny new skills will be constant and the desire for new skills is not limited by a fixed variable (SP), but by ISK which players can buy with PLEX or earn more of quickly. |
Ria Nieyli
40507
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:23:39 -
[60] - Quote
There's already a lot of idle ISK ingame, not to mention people dumping plex on the market already. The bulk of injector purchases are going to be frontloaded, then it will slow down to a trickle. Once the novelty wears off, the feeding frenzy will end. |
|
Jack Theisant
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:24:13 -
[61] - Quote
...and now an Injector, also in Essence, for 800M.
Essence seems to be a spot for high profit right now. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:33:51 -
[62] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:There's a lot of idle ISK ingame, not to mention people dumping plex on the market already. The bulk of injector purchases are going to be frontloaded, then it will slow down to a trickle. Once the novelty wears off, the feeding frenzy will end.
Many people who actively play EVE will see an advantage to training that shiny new toy...quickly. And they'll pay what they can afford for that instant gratification. Today and indeed any other day. This is unlikely to end while the servers are online.
This is unrelated to the pent up supply of SP we currently have flooding the market, and the resulting supply shock we will experience shortly afterwards until additional SP farming alts are fully running at 6m SP in a few months.
MARKET UPDATE:
Extractor prices touched 603m in Jita before bouncing quickly back to 640m, and rising
Even with massive supply coming to market demand is holding and, it seems, strengthening |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
714
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:40:30 -
[63] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:There's a lot of idle ISK ingame, not to mention people dumping plex on the market already. The bulk of injector purchases are going to be frontloaded, then it will slow down to a trickle. Once the novelty wears off and people meet their SP goals, the feeding frenzy will end. EVE could be very frustrating to newbies... you want to do it all but when you fire up EFT and see your puny dps and terrible tanking, not to mention shortage of cpu and powergrid, you just feel that you will never get anywhere.
Not anymore. With enough time and drive for grinding, or a hefty amount of real money, any newbie can completely skip the hard phase and have a character with perfect fitting skills and solid combat and ship skills on day 1. This guarantees demand as long as new players join EVE.
.
|
Ria Nieyli
40507
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:41:15 -
[64] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Many people who actively play EVE will see an advantage to training that shiny new toy...quickly. And they'll pay what they can afford for that instant gratification. Today and indeed any other day. This is unlikely to end while the servers are online. This is unrelated to the pent up supply of SP we currently have flooding the market, and the resulting supply shock we will experience shortly afterwards until additional SP farming alts are fully running at 6m SP in a few months. MARKET UPDATE: Extractor prices touched 603m in Jita before bouncing quickly back to 640m, and rising Even with massive supply coming to market demand is holding and, it seems, strengthening
And many people who actively play EVE don't care about the rate of SP acquisition, seeing as how a lot train with empty clones and the likes. So while they might buy 2-3 injectors now to polish off some skills, it's unlikely that it'll keep up. Not to mention that as characters age naturally and get more SP both the higher diminishing returns and the less need for extra SP will make most people apprehensive of buying injectors. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:44:10 -
[65] - Quote
Well that (interesting) speculation about motivation which sadly none of us can verify. Whereas it's true to say there will be a supply rush due to years of accumulated unwanted SP, followed by a much lower rate of SP being extracted afterwards. It's sensible to conclude that this will impact the price.
|
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:46:22 -
[66] - Quote
MARKET UPDATE: Prices rising dramatically
Amarr: skill injectors now 745m ISK, and rising Jita: skill injectors have climbed quickly to 650m, and rising
|
Ria Nieyli
40507
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:48:07 -
[67] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:EVE could be very frustrating to newbies... you want to do it all but when you fire up EFT and see your puny dps and terrible tanking, not to mention shortage of cpu and powergrid, you just feel that you will never get anywhere.
Not anymore. With enough time and drive for grinding, or a hefty amount of real money, any newbie can completely skip the hard phase and have a character with perfect fitting skills and solid combat and ship skills on day 1. This guarantees demand as long as new players join EVE.
There's a lot of people that weren't frustrated by EVE when they started out, nor did they feel useless with low SP and were still able to accomplish things. This is made even easier with the new 400k starting amount now. You can fit frigate that can win you solo fights with 0 hours of additional training right now.
Yet the pricing means that if you're a genuinely new player, you'd have to shell out a lot of real cash to be able to afford extractors. At that points it's easier to generate some PLEX and browse the Character Bazaar. What's more, people that would do that are a niche subset of the playerbase. Either way, I do not see new players massively influencing the demand. The target audience for this product is people that have 20m up to 50m SP. |
Ria Nieyli
40507
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:57:19 -
[68] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Well that (interesting) speculation about motivation which sadly none of us can verify. Whereas it's true to say there will be a supply rush due to years of accumulated unwanted SP, followed by a much lower rate of SP being extracted afterwards. It's sensible to conclude that this will impact the price.
Well then, it's also true to say that as time passes people will passively accumulate SP by training that will either
A) Make them want to buy injectors less, to a point of possibly making them not want them at all. B) Make them sell said SP on the market as they feel that they don't need it.
B is going to lead to some interesting pricing by the "Skill Points that I train are free" people. Overall, the injectors should keep appreciating in value after the initial surpluses get used up, but it's because their cost can be directly that to PLEX and they will follow its trends closely. |
Berrice Silf
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 18:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Well that (interesting) speculation about motivation which sadly none of us can verify. Whereas it's true to say there will be a supply rush due to years of accumulated unwanted SP, followed by a much lower rate of SP being extracted afterwards. It's sensible to conclude that this will impact the price.
You don't need 6 mill to extract either its over 5.5 mill. You cannot ever drop below the 5 mill threshold.
Seems very strange that they've added this new feature to the skill queue system as well, i can on one of my characters now have its training for the next 3 years and 17 days without even logging on to do anything, how exactly is that encouraging active play ?? |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:00:40 -
[70] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote: Seems very strange that they've added this new feature to the skill queue system as well, i can on one of my characters now have its training for the next 3 years and 17 days without even logging on to do anything, how exactly is that encouraging active play ??
Why would CCP want you to give them a little extra server load when they can just soak up your subscription money without you even bothering to log in? |
|
Berrice Silf
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:09:29 -
[71] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Berrice Silf wrote: Seems very strange that they've added this new feature to the skill queue system as well, i can on one of my characters now have its training for the next 3 years and 17 days without even logging on to do anything, how exactly is that encouraging active play ??
Why would CCP want you to give them a little extra server load when they can just soak up your subscription money without you even bothering to log in?
Why are they saying this feature and the TSP is going to stimulate PCU when all it will do is generate more dead farming accounts and give people even more reasons not to log on, Find something else to do whilst passively earning. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
63
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:15:55 -
[72] - Quote
Farming at today's prices will barely pay for that character's subscription.
So, unless the profit margin goes up I don't see a new breed of passive income.
682m-304m=378m*3.76=1.42b per month
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:16:41 -
[73] - Quote
Berrice Silf wrote:
Why are they saying this feature and the TSP is going to stimulate PCU when all it will do is generate more dead farming accounts and give people even more reasons not to log on, Find something else to do whilst passively earning.
Honestly I don't mind what people do with their accounts. I'm just speculating about the cost of injectors.
|
S'Way
1270
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:30:52 -
[74] - Quote
The thread title needs updating, not sure what prices in Jita are doing atm, but other areas they're now going up steadily without a sign of slowing down. |
Seeker Atreides
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:38:38 -
[75] - Quote
Injector 679m and dipping
Extractor holding at 302m |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
182
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:45:31 -
[76] - Quote
Literally just replying to put my guess on the record for where filled injectors will settle, 680m ISK or in other terms 60% more expensive than SP from regular training off a PLEX purchase.
257m for extractor at 1.258b ISK / -ú17 with extractor cost at $5 (-ú3.47) 420m for the SP at 1/3 the price of a PLEX, the only way to obtain SP in the first place, assuming no personal value of the SP 677m total cost to buy the 500k SP
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2398
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 19:56:00 -
[77] - Quote
sooooo we aint gonna see all these maxed characters roaming around that people were moaning about?
"Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus
...............................
Angel Cartel || Serpentis
|
David Therman
University of Caille Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 20:00:52 -
[78] - Quote
Well, it didn't take long for the injectors to be fobbed off as extractors... that's all I'm seeing in Jita local at the moment. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
65
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 20:01:47 -
[79] - Quote
3500+ Pilots in Jita atm.
When will Eve Central pick up the prices?
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
293
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 20:12:20 -
[80] - Quote
Good job I don't have to worry about it.
As I can just continue to train.
|
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Poddington Bare
Angur Therapy
221
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 21:36:51 -
[81] - Quote
But, but, but...shiny! |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 22:58:03 -
[82] - Quote
Skill Injectors up to 800m each in Amarr now |
Zherpa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:12:34 -
[83] - Quote
Time to start buying up those minerals, boys and girls. There are a lot fewer miners in New Eden tonight, now that they've respec'd or sold billions of Skillpoints.
|
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1286
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:21:11 -
[84] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:At present prices of injectors and extractors: Eve is now Free to Play.
Train skill. Buy extractor from the market, with ISK. Fill extractor Sell extractor. Repeat 4 times a month Result: Sufficient ISK profit to get a PLEX.
It has been since 2008.
internet spaceships
are serious business sir.
and don't forget it
|
Rhohan
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:42:07 -
[85] - Quote
I just got rid of 36 mil SP I won't be using anymore. Yay Force Aux! Nice bit of ISK too.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4684
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:45:32 -
[86] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:PLEX prices are currently 1.30bn Skill Extractors have currently stabilized in the Jita market at 330m Skill Extractors should eventually sell for a simple AUR->ISK conversion, as they are not supply limited unlike trained SP. Skill injectors are still incredibly volatile, moving between 700-750m in both Jita and Amarr in rapid price movements. Volumes for sale are however low. In the whole of Jita there are perhaps less than 100 skill injectors for sale. It won't take much for prices to soar upwards.
Thin markets are often volatile....
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4684
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 00:49:21 -
[87] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Kalgeroth wrote:PLEX prices are currently 1.30bn Skill Extractors have currently stabilized in the Jita market at 330m Skill Extractors should eventually sell for a simple AUR->ISK conversion, as they are not supply limited unlike trained SP. Skill injectors are still incredibly volatile, moving between 700-750m in both Jita and Amarr in rapid price movements. Volumes for sale are however low. In the whole of Jita there are perhaps less than 100 skill injectors for sale. It won't take much for prices to soar upwards. Thin markets are often volatile....
Ahem....
Not a bad initial guess, IMO.
And still waiting for the bubble.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Gen Saint
No Fun Entreprise
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 01:21:15 -
[88] - Quote
Lets crush some numbers about SP farming for ISK,
According to my understanding of the process, as far as the numbers are atm, this is not a viable option unless you fuel your SP farming account with an other toon either with ISK or USD to pay for the sub fees.
Proof (?):
Assuming:
- today's approximative market data are used for calculation purposes - Plex pruchase price is almost equal to Plex selling price (average between sell and buy order) - SP extractor pruchase price is almost equal to SP Extractor selling price (average between sell and buy order) - SP injector pruchase price is almost equal to SP Injector selling price (average between sell and buy order) - Annual sub. Fees - Extractor are purchased in bundle with NO special promo 10 extractor = 10 000 AUR - Assuming the ISK value of extractor are given by the AUR cost at 800 AUR, we can calculate the ISK value of SP Extractor at 1000 AUR (assuming 300M ISK / 800 AUR) - all training is done with +5 / +5 implant and maximal remap (2700 SP/h / 24h / 30 days) - CCP bills annual sub on a 360 days rotation - the SP farming toon is over 5,5M SP - Skill extractor extract 500K SP per run
Data:
Plex ISK value1270M ISK Montly sub. Fees 10.95USD SP Extractor AUR Value1000AUR SP Extractor ISK Value375M ISK(300 M ISK market value if purchased at 800 AUR) SP Injector ISK Value660M ISK
We know that: - 1 month of training = 10.95USD = 1 PLEX = 3500 AUR = 1270 M ISK = 1944M SP
Calculations - AUR approach:
- on year base we find that: i can learn : 2700 SP/h x 24h x 360 days = 23328000SP To extract all the SP in 1 year i need: Euclidean division (23328000 / 500K)= 46extractors To purchase all extractors needed, i must get:46 extractors x 1000 AUR / extractor = 46000AUR To get all the AUR needed, i must get: 46 000 AUR / 3500 AUR/PLEX = 13.14285714PLEX (14 rounded up) To fuel learning alt, sub fees paied: 12 months x 1 PLEX/month = 12PLEX
- wich lead us : i need to purchase = 26Plex each plex cost 1270M ISK 26 PLEX x 1270M ISK = 33020M ISK I'ill sell the injectors at 660M ISK 46 injectors x 660M ISK = 30360M ISK
Total income:-2660M ISK / year
Calculations - ISK approach:
- on year base we find that: i can learn : 2700 SP/h x 24h x 360 days = 23328000SP To extract all the SP i can in 1 year i need: Euclidean division (23328000 / 500K)= 46extractors To purchase all extractors needed, i must get:46 extractors x 375 M ISK / extractor = 17250M ISK To fuel learning alt, sub fees paied: 12 months x 1 PLEX/month = 12PLEX
- wich lead us : i need to purchase = 12Plex each plex cost 1270M ISK 12 PLEX x 1270M ISK = 15240M ISK Purchased extractors = 17250M ISK I'ill sell the injectors at 660M ISK 46 injectors x 660M ISK = 30360M ISK
Total income:-2130M ISK / year
In conclusion, it is not a profitable operation since you must fuel the farming account with approximatively 2200M ISK per year. Did i miss something? Is my undersatnading of the situation correct?
|
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1286
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 01:37:21 -
[89] - Quote
Quote:In conclusion, it is not a profitable operation since you must fuel the farming account with approximatively 2200M ISK per year. Did i miss something? Is my undersatnading of the situation correct?
Yeah, not everyone needs more SP.
If you are a mission runner with all 5's in marauders and strategic cruisers and support skills, you can just sell off your SP that you earn. Or a station trader with max trading skills and rep. Basically, all sub cap pilots that dont want to be cap pilots only need a few years training to max out what they do.
internet spaceships
are serious business sir.
and don't forget it
|
Gen Saint
No Fun Entreprise
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 01:39:50 -
[90] - Quote
make sense! |
|
Kaivar Lancer
Placid Peace Corps
718
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 03:17:02 -
[91] - Quote
BUY BUY BUY! |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44449
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 03:22:58 -
[92] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:BUY BUY BUY! Seems a lot of people are:
http://puu.sh/n2kaz/ad988266a5.png
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13556
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 03:29:58 -
[93] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:BUY BUY BUY! Seems a lot of people are: http://puu.sh/n2kaz/ad988266a5.png So approximately 60,000 extractors used in the first 10 hours following the release.
lol, I drained an unused alt and bought a jump freighter :)
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1904
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 03:51:00 -
[94] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:BUY BUY BUY! Seems a lot of people are: http://puu.sh/n2kaz/ad988266a5.png So approximately 60,000 extractors used in the first 10 hours following the release. It would be interesting to know how much of that SP hit the market vs the amount just shuffled between characters owned by the same player. |
Memphis Baas
1098
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 03:54:30 -
[95] - Quote
I'm thinking CCP will post some stats in a couple days. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4684
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 05:53:02 -
[96] - Quote
Interesting, looks like SP will be settling at about 680-700 ISK/SP in Jita....so far.
And initial large supply could be driving the price that low....will be curious to see how it goes forward.
Looks like the overall effect on PLEX has been fairly minimal, as well. Maybe a 10% boost in the cost of a PLEX so far.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 07:38:19 -
[97] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Quote:In conclusion, it is not a profitable operation since you must fuel the farming account with approximatively 2200M ISK per year. Did i miss something? Is my undersatnading of the situation correct? Yeah, not everyone needs more SP. If you are a mission runner with all 5's in marauders and strategic cruisers and support skills, you can just sell off your SP that you earn. Or a station trader with max trading skills and rep. Basically, all sub cap pilots that dont want to be cap pilots only need a few years training to max out what they do.
This is true but the number of people who have active training alts who don't need SP + don't want to inject the SP themselves is not going to produce enough SP to satisfy demand, and is likely anyway to be a small number even if they didn't just inject the SP into their own chars
The thing is, demand is not going away but supply almost certainly will shrink dramatically Since 2003, supply in the form of poorly trained characters and unwanted mining skills has been building Yesterday, the dam broke and that supply was unleashed on the market In the coming weeks, the flood will become a trickle It will take 2-3 months for SP farming alts to get over 5.5m SP and start extracting
The result: skill injectors are likely to rise in price in the intervening period, probably quite dramatically as nothing can be done to produce more SP in that time to satisfy demand, no matter how high prices get
|
Ria Nieyli
40548
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:13:33 -
[98] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Interesting, looks like SP will be settling at about 680-700 ISK/SP in Jita....so far.
And initial large supply could be driving the price that low....will be curious to see how it goes forward.
Looks like the overall effect on PLEX has been fairly minimal, as well. Maybe a 10% boost in the cost of a PLEX so far.
People are dumping PLEX on the market so the could afford injectors. |
Dyllan Ma'tar
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
10
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:16:16 -
[99] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Quote:In conclusion, it is not a profitable operation since you must fuel the farming account with approximatively 2200M ISK per year. Did i miss something? Is my undersatnading of the situation correct? Yeah, not everyone needs more SP. If you are a mission runner with all 5's in marauders and strategic cruisers and support skills, you can just sell off your SP that you earn. Or a station trader with max trading skills and rep. Basically, all sub cap pilots that dont want to be cap pilots only need a few years training to max out what they do. It will take 2-3 months for SP farming alts to get over 5.5m SP and start extracting
This is assuming there aren't characters being used as SP mules that are already at the 5 mil SP minimum, meaning the time it will take will be the time to train 500k SP. So there will be a core of players that have pulled SP from alts and will be using those alts as mules, surrounded by those who are just getting into the SP farming game. Your not wrong, but that trickle is going to be a bit thicker then your current reasoning is accounting for.
> Do not stubbornly rebel against the ways of the world. Do not mindlessly follow the ways of the world. Think lightly of yourself and think deeply of the world. You can abandon your own body, but never let go of your honor. Miyamoto Musashi, Dokkodo
|
iBLACK MAMBA
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:30:33 -
[100] - Quote
Yesterday, I made 85bn profit thanks to SP price speculation.
I don't mind sharing how I did that, because in all honesty, it can never be repeated.
A few months ago, I started buying up cheap characters on sell forum. I would only consider characters with price of 300k per million SP or less - a price now impossible to attain as people understand the value of extracted skills.
I got some colossal bargains, sometimes paying as little as 220k per 1m SP. Yesterday, I extracted over 120million skillpoints from these characters. According to CCP that is 0.4% of the total SP extracted.
I then purchased from the market and converted 48 plex into AUR, to buy extractors, which was the most ISK efficient way of converting. This provided me with 210 extractors for a price of 270m each. I bought the rest from the market at 290m.
All in all, I invested 35bn in character purchases, 35bn in plex, and 8.5bn in extractors directly from market.
Total investment: 78.5bn The market value of the extractors is: 163bn
Not bad for a days work My only regret is not getting more accounts to buy up more cheap characters when I could.
However, as indicited by posters above, I now think there will be good ISK to be made in the rising value of the injectors as supply starts to shrink. So I've kept some aside for a rainy day just for that purpose.
|
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Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:34:09 -
[101] - Quote
Dyllan Ma'tar wrote: This is assuming there aren't characters being used as SP mules that are already at the 5 mil SP minimum, meaning the time it will take will be the time to train 500k SP.
You're absolutely right, there will be, however it's fair to say that this supply is far slower moving and much smaller than the initial flood of 13 years of unwanted skills. It can't flex to meet price spikes.
There will be a disconnect between supply and pricing, an in-elasticity which I think it's fair to say could lead to a colossal price bubble in the coming weeks or months. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:38:22 -
[102] - Quote
I wouldn't be surprised if others also made a lot of ISK yesterday, buying up cheap characters when they could and reselling the SP
you can't do it anymore as people have realised the value of the SP, but i suspect some individuals are much richer today than they were yesterday |
Ria Nieyli
40550
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:48:13 -
[103] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Dyllan Ma'tar wrote: This is assuming there aren't characters being used as SP mules that are already at the 5 mil SP minimum, meaning the time it will take will be the time to train 500k SP.
You're absolutely right, there will be, however it's fair to say that this supply is far slower moving and much smaller than the initial flood of 13 years of unwanted skills. It can't flex to meet price spikes. There will be a disconnect between supply and pricing, an in-elasticity which I think it's fair to say could lead to a colossal price bubble in the coming weeks or months.
No bubble coming. The initial demand was so high that the traded plex was 3.5 times higher than normal. Why? People wanted skill injectors. Now that those people have them, demand will drop off sharply. |
Chasida
Instant Annihilation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:53:32 -
[104] - Quote
But who is buying all these injectors?! Any high skill char has little use for them, the gained skills are low for high skill chars compared to the cost, so the return will be rather small.
The only use I can see for this is low skill alts. Not even new players are likely the buyers, because they will not have the ISK to buy them.
Or are some people just hoarding the injectors, to speculate in ISK? If so I fear they will burn themselves...
I do understand who all the sellers are, but I do not understand who all the buyers (and users) are! As I said only logical buyers U can come up with are low skill alts for players with A LOT of ISK. |
Ria Nieyli
40550
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:54:42 -
[105] - Quote
Chasida wrote:But who is buying all these injectors?! Any high skill char has little use for them, the gained skills are low for high skill chars compared to the cost, so the return will be rather small.
The only use I can see for this is low skill alts. Not even new players are likely the buyers, because they will not have the ISK to buy them.
Or are some people just hoarding the injectors, to speculate in ISK? If so I fear they will burn themselves...
I do understand who all the sellers are, but I do not understand who all the buyers (and users) are! As I said only logical buyers U can come up with are low skill alts for players with A LOT of ISK.
According to the official metric, the majority of injectors were used by characters under 50m sp. What they did was dump plex on the market to come up with their isk. Oh well. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:56:09 -
[106] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:
No bubble coming. The initial demand was so high that the traded plex was 3.5 times higher than normal. Why? People wanted skill injectors. Now that those people have them, demand will drop off sharply.
What happens when they want that next ship, a FAX or Carrier, or to get Capital Turret 5 on their dread so they can get top damage? There is always 'the next thing'.
You assume that people want certain skills and they got them all yesterday. Done deal, no more. If you will forgive me saying so, that seems like a very silly suggestion and I cannot imagine being anywhere near the truth. |
Chasida
Instant Annihilation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:57:50 -
[107] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Chasida wrote:But who is buying all these injectors?! Any high skill char has little use for them, the gained skills are low for high skill chars compared to the cost, so the return will be rather small.
The only use I can see for this is low skill alts. Not even new players are likely the buyers, because they will not have the ISK to buy them.
Or are some people just hoarding the injectors, to speculate in ISK? If so I fear they will burn themselves...
I do understand who all the sellers are, but I do not understand who all the buyers (and users) are! As I said only logical buyers U can come up with are low skill alts for players with A LOT of ISK. According to the official metric, the majority of injectors were used by characters under 50m sp. What they did was dump plex on the market to come up with their isk. Oh well.
Then why didnt the Plex price go down if a lot of people were dumping Plex? It should have gone down, instead it went a little bit up. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:59:11 -
[108] - Quote
Chasida wrote:
Or are some people just hoarding the injectors, to speculate in ISK? If so I fear they will burn themselves...
According to CCP, 30bn was extracted yesterday and 24bn was injected. So there isn't much hoarding going on when you account for the injectors sitting on the market.
|
Ria Nieyli
40550
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 08:59:17 -
[109] - Quote
Chasida wrote:Then why didnt the Plex price go down if a lot of people were dumping Plex? It should have gone down, instead it went a little bit up.
Because people were mass converting plex to extractors.
Kalgeroth wrote:What happens when they want that next ship, a FAX or Carrier, or to get Capital Turret 5 on their dread so they can get top damage? There is always 'the next thing'. You assume that people want certain skills and they got them all yesterday. Done deal, no more. If you will forgive me saying so, that seems like a very silly suggestion and I cannot imagine being anywhere near the truth.
Except that they already have their next thing. And yes, people want certain skills and they're getting them now. Or got them yesterday. The more SP you have, the less you need to buy, so naturally the demand will drop sharply. Which part of that are you unable to understand? |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:06:38 -
[110] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:[
Except that they already have their next thing. And yes, people want certain skills and they're getting them now. Or got them yesterday. The more SP you have, the less you need to buy, so naturally the demand will drop sharply. Which part of that are you unable to understand?
My dear Ria, by your..ahem..'logic', people would have one training goal forever and then simply stop training forever once they reach it. Clearly that is not the case
Aspirations change, alliance doctrines change, new ships or modules get introduced, there is rebalancing. The constant evolution of EVE and the constant shifting of peoples prefereces guarentees a market for injectors for as long as the servers are online.
And given the price of injectors, the notion that yesterday suddenly every player in EVE recieved all the SP they ever need is clearly a very, very silly idea indeed. Back of the class for you and no treats at playtime. |
|
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:13:40 -
[111] - Quote
LET'S BREAK THIS DOWN
There are, what, 250,000 active accounts? Let's assume an average of 2 chars on each account = 500,000 active chars 21bn SP was injected yesterday. That's 42,000 SP for each char
Barely enough for Racial Frigate IV
Somehow I don't think the market for SP is exhausted quite yet. |
Ria Nieyli
40550
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:14:43 -
[112] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Aspirations change, alliance doctrines change, new ships or modules get introduced, there is rebalancing. The constant evolution of EVE and the constant shifting of peoples prefereces guarentees a market for injectors for as long as the servers are online. And given the price of injectors, the notion that yesterday suddenly every player in EVE recieved all the SP they ever need is clearly a very, very silly idea indeed. Back of the class for you and no treats at playtime.
Well if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore reality, that's fine too. |
iBLACK MAMBA
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:22:10 -
[113] - Quote
I'm no economist, but it seems that the people who think there could be a temporary price bubble are onto something and there is good reason for believing that. For 13 years, you've had unwanted skills building up and people could, for the first time, sell those for ISK yesterday. This is a one-off event, never to be repeated.
That flood of supply will mean the market for injectors is currently not typical of how it will play out in the long-term. The market WILL change. It's reasonable and logical to assume that the reduction in supply will lead to a price increase.
It's not guaranteed, of course, but it is the most sensible conclusion I've read so far. |
Ria Nieyli
40550
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:24:31 -
[114] - Quote
iBLACK MAMBA wrote:I'm no economist, but it seems that the people who think there could be a temporary price bubble are onto something and there is good reason for believing that. For 13 years, you've had unwanted skills building up and people could, for the first time, sell those for ISK yesterday. This is a one-off event, never to be repeated.
That flood of supply will mean the market for injectors is currently not typical of how it will play out in the long-term. The market WILL change. It's reasonable and logical to assume that the reduction in supply will lead to a price increase.
It's not guaranteed, of course, but it is the most sensible conclusion I've read so far.
And in the same vein, yesterday was the first time people could buy SP piecemeal like this, so there was a huge demand boom. This is a one-off event, never to be repeated.
You say that reduction in supply will hike the price, but in reality, there'll be a reduction in demand. Injector price can be directly tied to PLEX, however, so it will keep trailing behind it. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:25:27 -
[115] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:
You seem to be assuming a whole lot with no proof whatsoever. In fact, part of the supply comes from older characters getting rid of unwanted skills, yet you assume they used injectors. And what's more you assume that those SAME people will keep injecting.
None of that is accurate.
I quoted some figures and made a reasonable assumption based on it. I don't know if I am right or not, but I do believe that I will be right based on the reasons I've stated.
Time will tell. If prices start increasing after 7 days and an upward trend is apparent through to 2-3 months, I will be proved correct. Let's see how the market plays out. I don't know why you're so offended by my predictions but feel free to make your own, and then time will prove us right or wrong |
Ria Nieyli
40550
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:28:13 -
[116] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
You seem to be assuming a whole lot with no proof whatsoever. In fact, part of the supply comes from older characters getting rid of unwanted skills, yet you assume they used injectors. And what's more you assume that those SAME people will keep injecting.
None of that is accurate. I quoted some figures and made a reasonable assumption based on it. I don't know if I am right or not, but I do believe that I will be right based on the reasons I've stated. Time will tell. If prices start increasing after 7 days and an upward trend is apparent through to 2-3 months, I will be proved correct. Let's see how the market plays out. I don't know why you're so offended by my predictions but feel free to make your own, and then time will prove us right or wrong
Yes, it is accurate. If you think I'm offended, let me remind you that you're the one making bellitling remarks.
Injector price is tied to PLEX price and will crawl behind it. That's it. End of story. No bubble. Period. It's that simple. Your reasonable assumptions don't hold water. You claim that people who got rid of unwanted SP sold it on the market, then bought injectors back and used them. |
iBLACK MAMBA
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:29:12 -
[117] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:
And in the same vein, yesterday was the first time people could buy SP piecemeal like this, so there was a huge demand boom. This is a one-off event, never to be repeated.
You say that reduction in supply will hike the price, but in reality, there'll be a reduction in demand. Injector price can be directly tied to PLEX, however, so it will keep trailing behind it.
I see your point, however the demand is elastic while the supply is inelastic. This is what could lead to a price bubble. In other words, it's possible (and feasible) for demand to remain high, but it's impossible for supply to remain as high (certainly not in the short-term at least).
Is a price bubble possible because of this? Absolutely, it is. Will it happen? Not sure. I think prices will rise but won't get too out of hand. I'm predicting 800-900m for a few months before dropping back to 750m after 3 months or so. |
Ria Nieyli
40550
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:34:25 -
[118] - Quote
iBLACK MAMBA wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
And in the same vein, yesterday was the first time people could buy SP piecemeal like this, so there was a huge demand boom. This is a one-off event, never to be repeated.
You say that reduction in supply will hike the price, but in reality, there'll be a reduction in demand. Injector price can be directly tied to PLEX, however, so it will keep trailing behind it.
I see your point, however the demand is elastic while the supply is inelastic. This is what could lead to a price bubble. In other words, it's possible (and feasible) for demand to remain high, but it's impossible for supply to remain as high (certainly not in the short-term at least).
Why? There's a lot of cheap characters on the bazaar that can be gutted. There'll be people having SP farm alts as well.
Meanwhile, the majority of people that wanted skills already bought. Consumer interest would be a trickle after the initial market boom. |
iBLACK MAMBA
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:39:42 -
[119] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Why? There's a lot of cheap characters on the bazaar that can be gutted. There'll be people having SP farm alts as well.
Meanwhile, the majority of people that wanted skills already bought. Consumer interest would be a trickle after the initial market boom.
Sadly there are no cheap characters on the bazaar any more, not since people understand the value of extracted skill points. Trust me as I made good ISK buying cheap chars a few months ago. It's no longer possible. Maybe small profits if you're lucky, nothing spectacular. But I don't think SP is like buying a car or shiny new phone - buy it once and be happy with it. These things will be in constant demand by people who are impatient to train quickly, and the price will be driven not my logical and rational individuals like you and I, but my emotion and impatience. So the price could become highly irrational and detached from common sense.
The truth though is that demand is elastic and supply is inelastic, no matter our opinion on anything else, and this means that a price bubble is possible. Anyway, I'm not invested in this, I've made my ISK. Good luck to all parties involved.
|
Ria Nieyli
40550
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:45:04 -
[120] - Quote
iBLACK MAMBA wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
Why? There's a lot of cheap characters on the bazaar that can be gutted. There'll be people having SP farm alts as well.
Meanwhile, the majority of people that wanted skills already bought. Consumer interest would be a trickle after the initial market boom.
Sadly there are no cheap characters on the bazaar any more, not since people understand the value of extracted skill points. Trust me as I made good ISK buying cheap chars a few months ago. It's no longer possible. Maybe small profits if you're lucky, nothing spectacular. But I don't think SP is like buying a car or shiny new phone - buy it once and be happy with it. These things will be in constant demand by people who are impatient to train quickly, and the price will be driven not my logical and rational individuals like you and I, but my emotion and impatience. So the price could become highly irrational and detached from common sense. The truth though is that demand is elastic and supply is inelastic, no matter our opinion on anything else, and this means that a price bubble is possible. Anyway, I'm not invested in this, I've made my ISK. Good luck to all parties involved.
The 800-900m range you indicated in your previous post would hardly be indicative of a price bubble, however. |
|
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
632
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:45:34 -
[121] - Quote
iBLACK MAMBA wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
And in the same vein, yesterday was the first time people could buy SP piecemeal like this, so there was a huge demand boom. This is a one-off event, never to be repeated.
You say that reduction in supply will hike the price, but in reality, there'll be a reduction in demand. Injector price can be directly tied to PLEX, however, so it will keep trailing behind it.
I see your point, however the demand is elastic while the supply is inelastic. This is what could lead to a price bubble. In other words, it's possible (and feasible) for demand to remain high, but it's impossible for supply to remain as high (certainly not in the short-term at least). Is a price bubble possible because of this? Absolutely, it is. Will it happen? Not sure. I think prices will rise but won't get too out of hand. I'm predicting 800-900m for a few months before dropping back to 750m after 3 months or so. Not likely. If prices remain above approx. 0.54 PLEX, then SP farming will increase rapidly to meet demand and push the price back down.
Keep in mind that SP farming is really simple, totally passive and risk-free. Every player in the game can do it, and setup as many farming accounts as necessary to meet demand. |
Chasida
Instant Annihilation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 09:59:27 -
[122] - Quote
Did some fast calculations here, and now I am not even sure its worth getting Injectors for lowbie alts, if you arent rolling in billions of ISK.
A good average skill point gain pr month is about 1,4 mill skill points. So 1 Injector will only result in you gaining about 10 days of training, and you have to pay about 650 mill ISK for it. Or if you calculate it in Plex; 1 Plex will only get you about 20 days of instant training.
As I said, I cannot see the worth if you arent rolling in billions of ISK... Or are these calculations wrong?.. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 10:07:24 -
[123] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote: Not likely. If prices remain above approx. 0.54 PLEX, then SP farming will increase rapidly to meet demand and push the price back down.
Bear in mind we're talking about a temporary price bubble.
Alts need 5.5m SP before you can farm them.
So even if prices went completely crazy, this extra SP won't be available for 3 months.
|
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 10:08:09 -
[124] - Quote
Chasida wrote:Did some fast calculations here, and now I am not even sure its worth getting Injectors for lowbie alts, if you arent rolling in billions of ISK.
A good average skill point gain pr month is about 1,4 mill skill points. So 1 Injector will only result in you gaining about 10 days of training, and you have to pay about 650 mill ISK for it. Or if you calculate it in Plex; 1 Plex will only get you about 20 days of instant training.
As I said, I cannot see the worth if you arent rolling in billions of ISK... Or are these calculations wrong?..
Your calculations are correct
People pay the premium for instant results. If you're happy with the slow burn approach, good on you
|
Ria Nieyli
40550
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 10:10:52 -
[125] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Sizeof Void wrote: Not likely. If prices remain above approx. 0.54 PLEX, then SP farming will increase rapidly to meet demand and push the price back down.
Bear in mind we're talking about a temporary price bubble. Alts need 5.5m SP before you can farm them. So even if prices went completely crazy, this extra SP won't be available for 3 months.
That's incorrect because people have been setting up farm alts before the patch hit. Easiest way to do it would be to buy up cheapish characters when it got announced, wait till the patch hits, strip them off completely and then start training immediately, meaning that the first farmed SP will be available in a tad more than a week after the patch. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 10:14:37 -
[126] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:
That's incorrect because people have been setting up farm alts before the patch hit. Easiest way to do it would be to buy up cheapish characters when it got announced, wait till the patch hits, strip them off completely and then start training immediately, meaning that the first farmed SP will be available in a tad more than a week after the patch.
That SP hit the market already. Where is the rest coming from?
Or is there a masterplan orchestrated by character resellers to only sell a small fraction of SP a day until new SP farming alts get up and running?
The EVE illuminati ~controlling our SP markets~ for maximum price efficiency |
Ria Nieyli
40551
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 10:17:44 -
[127] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
That's incorrect because people have been setting up farm alts before the patch hit. Easiest way to do it would be to buy up cheapish characters when it got announced, wait till the patch hits, strip them off completely and then start training immediately, meaning that the first farmed SP will be available in a tad more than a week after the patch.
That SP hit the market already. Where is the rest coming from? Or is there a masterplan orchestrated by character resellers to only sell a small fraction of SP a day until new SP farming alts get up and running? The EVE illuminati ~controlling our SP markets~ for maximum price efficiency
Reading comprehension has failed you. The characters that got stripped of SP get to keep 5m of it, which means they are already training towards the first 5.5m SP extraction point. With +5 implants, it will take less than eight days for the first farmed SP to hit the market, not the three months you claim. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
40
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 10:34:05 -
[128] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Reading comprehension has failed you. The characters that got stripped of SP get to keep 5m of it, which means they are already training towards the first 5.5m SP extraction point. With +5 implants, it will take less than eight days for the first farmed SP to hit the market, not the three months you claim. And that's worst case scenario. Any character that was left with more than 5m but less than 5.5m will get to that point even faster.
The trickle of SP from a few alts is going to be a tiny fraction of the flood of SP from 13 years of unwanted skills It's going to be months before a new generation of alt farms produce more SP These are the pre-conditions of a price bubble The above are facts, anything else is speculation |
Ria Nieyli
40551
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 10:39:32 -
[129] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:
Reading comprehension has failed you. The characters that got stripped of SP get to keep 5m of it, which means they are already training towards the first 5.5m SP extraction point. With +5 implants, it will take less than eight days for the first farmed SP to hit the market, not the three months you claim. And that's worst case scenario. Any character that was left with more than 5m but less than 5.5m will get to that point even faster.
The trickle of SP from a few alts is going to be a tiny fraction of the flood of SP from 13 years of unwanted skills It's going to be months before a new generation of alt farms produce more SP These are the pre-conditions of a price bubble The above are facts, anything else is speculation
A "few" alts. How do you know what the number of those "few" alts would be? Or do you really believe that people who have seriously looked into establishing character sp farms are only now starting to train them? It's going to be less than eight days for the first generation, not months. That's not a speculation, unlike you claiming that there'll be only a "few" alts.
You preconditions for a price bubble just assume that the demand will stay consistant with patch day. It will not be so, as we experienced a huge consumer boom because it's a brand new service. That will drop off. What are you going to do then? |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
40
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 10:47:47 -
[130] - Quote
Here are my price predictions:
Per Injector Day 1-7: 650-700m Day 8-14: 750-800m Day 15-30: 850-950m Day 30-60: 1bn-1.2bn
Then, a slow decline as SP alt farms start extracting in more volume. Final price: 800m. |
|
Memphis Baas
1100
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 11:24:57 -
[131] - Quote
So it would make sense to use the current 600m costs to create an "instant" farm alt at 5.5 m SP, take advantage of the 1200 bubble, then trickle the SP at 800?
In any case, the people arguing against you are just saying that we've known this feature was coming since 3-4 months ago, which should be plenty of time to set up farm alts. Sure, not everyone will have had the foresight, but you can't assume that nobody is smarter and hasn't thought of it 3 months ago.
There's a big supply of SP's now, but there's a big demand now too; people who wanted to move points or create alts are doing it now. In a month, the overriding consideration will be just how expensive it is. You may see demand only when CCP introduces some new skills, like with the faux/carriers. |
Tear Anasarsy
Reverse Engineering LTD
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 11:59:07 -
[132] - Quote
Quick maths just for fun and not checked the current prices but I can see Buying from the Bazaar and extracting skills and selling to be rather profitable..
I have no isk so cant play the market anyway just a sudden thought as I loaded forums up.
|
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2192
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 12:54:32 -
[133] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:So it would make sense to use the current 600m costs to create an "instant" farm alt at 5.5 m SP, take advantage of the 1200 bubble, then trickle the SP at 800?
In any case, the people arguing against you are just saying that we've known this feature was coming since 3-4 months ago, which should be plenty of time to set up farm alts. Sure, not everyone will have had the foresight, but you can't assume that nobody is smarter and hasn't thought of it 3 months ago.
There's a big supply of SP's now, but there's a big demand now too; people who wanted to move points or create alts are doing it now. In a month, the overriding consideration will be just how expensive it is. You may see demand only when CCP introduces some new skills, like with the faux/carriers. Agree, once everyone in the game today is satisfied with shuffling around SP and all have optimized chars, the demand will only come from new players and new alts. Whereas supply can be basically unlimited through farming alts, extracted bazaar chars, and "completed" mains.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Kaivar Lancer
Placid Peace Corps
718
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 13:53:49 -
[134] - Quote
SP will continue to generate over time, so the long-term supply of SP is infinite. On the otherhand, there is a finite demand for SP injectors. Once your SP is 50m+, or you've got the skills you've wanted, the utility of SP injectors falls dramatically.
The future value of SP can only plummet. |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 13:57:43 -
[135] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote: Agree, once everyone in the game today is satisfied with shuffling around SP and all have optimized chars, the demand will only come from new players and new alts. Whereas supply can be basically unlimited through farming alts, extracted bazaar chars, and "completed" mains.
If farming alts are profitable, this is almost certainly the case.
Contrary to popular wisdom, at the moment they are not very profitable and it's highly doubtbful people will bother for such a small return. But when prices rise, they will be.
In the meantime, it will still take 3 months for SP farming alts to come fully online in large numbers.
|
Aurelius Oshidashi
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 15:21:39 -
[136] - Quote
Someone wrote skill injections are probably not interesting for new players. I consider myself somewhat a new player, with my 8M skill points. I would love to have these injections, but I would have to sell plex to get the ISK I need for it and for a good distribution of points I would also have to buy new skill books. Selecting the right skills is still kind of hard, cause I discover new things about the game almost daily and don't feel confident that I would be able to distribute the points in a wise manner.
|
Ria Nieyli
40559
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 15:30:51 -
[137] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Tipa Riot wrote: Agree, once everyone in the game today is satisfied with shuffling around SP and all have optimized chars, the demand will only come from new players and new alts. Whereas supply can be basically unlimited through farming alts, extracted bazaar chars, and "completed" mains.
If farming alts are profitable, this is almost certainly the case. Contrary to popular wisdom, at the moment they are not very profitable and it's highly doubtbful people will bother for such a small return. But when prices rise, they will be. In the meantime, it will still take 3 months for SP farming alts to come fully online in large numbers.
Wrong on both accounts.
|
Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 15:53:04 -
[138] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Tipa Riot wrote: Agree, once everyone in the game today is satisfied with shuffling around SP and all have optimized chars, the demand will only come from new players and new alts. Whereas supply can be basically unlimited through farming alts, extracted bazaar chars, and "completed" mains.
If farming alts are profitable, this is almost certainly the case. Contrary to popular wisdom, at the moment they are not very profitable and it's highly doubtbful people will bother for such a small return. But when prices rise, they will be. In the meantime, it will still take 3 months for SP farming alts to come fully online in large numbers.
I still do not understand your argument. If I mine a Bazaar character or alt, I can only go down to 5 mln residual SP. So next injector will be available in 185 hrs. Bazaar prices have not adjusted fully - you can still buy and mine them with a profit. The farms are producing in the meanwhile - I doubt they did hit the market already at large scale. I am sure supply is a non issue for a very very long time - demand is much more difficult to predict. I wish I could. |
Ria Nieyli
40561
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 15:55:12 -
[139] - Quote
Pandora Bokks wrote:I still do not understand your argument. If I mine a Bazaar character or alt, I can only go down to 5 mln residual SP. So next injector will be available in 185 hrs. Bazaar prices have not adjusted fully - you can still buy and mine them with a profit. The farms are producing in the meanwhile - I doubt they did hit the market already at large scale. I am sure supply is a non issue for a very very long time - demand is much more difficult to predict. I wish I could.
Keep in mind that the injectors were announced on 15-10-2015, so anyone that would've wanted to set up a farm has had the chance to do so before patchday. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4689
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:04:24 -
[140] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Here are my price predictions:Per Injector Day 1-7: 650-700m Day 8-14: 750-800m Day 15-30: 850-950m Day 30-60: 1bn-1.2bn Then, a slow decline as SP alt farms start extracting in more volume. Final price: 800m.
Hmmm....
Tthe days 30-60 seem a bit high. Remember the price works to dampen demand some what as well, so not sure the price will get that high. I like your final price though.
Note, this would not, necessarily, be a bubble though.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
|
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
79
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:04:43 -
[141] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:He sounds like someone who's holding injectors, hoping to cash out in 1-2 months. That's why they call it speculation.
No one knows.
Why so skeptical?
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
Ria Nieyli
40561
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:06:34 -
[142] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:He sounds like someone who's holding injectors, hoping to cash out in 1-2 months. That's why they call it speculation. No one knows. Why so skeptical?
Because the maths of his speculation doesn't work out. I mean, earlier in the thread he managed to add up 15 and 6 to 24.
Not to mention his belief that people have only just now realised that you can farm SP for sale and started training characters from scratch yesterday instead of having them already set up. |
Memphis Baas
1105
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:16:04 -
[143] - Quote
I'm not sure about the increased PLEX prices either.
Yesterday it seemed like everyone bought PLEX and dumped it into the Jita market so they could afford to buy some injectors. Usual daily PLEX volume is in the 2000 range, yesterday they had over 10,000 traded. To me that looks like a HUGE influx of PLEX, and it's not like anyone put extra effort into getting any more ISK into the economy (from missions) than usual.
PLEX prices should be crashing.
EDIT: Although, I only disagree with the predictions and analysis. The fact that the OP took the time to post actual Jita and Amarr prices for everyone who couldn't log into the game at the time was a very nice thing on his part. Thank you for doing that. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
79
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:16:20 -
[144] - Quote
When you said, Quote:He sounds like someone who's holding injectors, hoping to cash out in 1-2 months. I thought you were referring to Pandora Bokks :-/
The market is so huge I don't think this thread will drive the prices either way.
Only time will tell the supply and demand of this feature.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
|
Ria Nieyli
40561
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:24:46 -
[145] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:PLEX prices should be crashing.
At the same time people were converting PLEX into aurum to buy extractors, which drove PLEX demand to be higher than usual as well.
pajedas wrote:When you said, Quote:He sounds like someone who's holding injectors, hoping to cash out in 1-2 months. I thought you were referring to Pandora Bokks :-/ The market is so huge I don't think this thread will drive the prices either way. Only time will tell the supply and demand of this feature.
I was talking to Pandora, not about him
As for the supply and demand, well. What could be said has been said.
|
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Violence of Action.
851
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:31:26 -
[146] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:I'm not sure about the increased PLEX prices either.
Yesterday it seemed like everyone bought PLEX and dumped it into the Jita market so they could afford to buy some injectors. Usual daily PLEX volume is in the 2000 range, yesterday they had over 10,000 traded. To me that looks like a HUGE influx of PLEX, and it's not like anyone put extra effort into getting any more ISK into the economy (from missions) than usual.
PLEX prices should be crashing. Unless a ton of PLEX were bought on the market, used to get AUR and that AUR used to buy items from the store. In other words, since the extractors costs AUR, people who do this for market games are most likely buying PLEX off the market, which will counterweight the PLEX that enters the market.
Honestly, I think much of that extra PLEX comes from PLEX hoards. Maybe even as much as half. People who have bought a PLEX or two off the market before for their pension, who now sees a need for a quick infusion of cash and sells it, or the serious market players, both could dump a lot of PLEX suddenly when they see the need. Short-term I'd see the PLEX market being volatile, but a slow trend upwards. When the SP market settles and you can calculate a steady profit, I'd guess PLEX rises more than before, since the extractors and SP farms are extra consumers, but I can't see where increased PLEX-purchase should come from, unless driven by a rising PLEX price ingame.
It's interesting to see, though. I wish I had good access to the EVE market data, this would be absolutely perfect to do some macroeconomics statistics and analysis on! |
Kaivar Lancer
Placid Peace Corps
718
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:42:48 -
[147] - Quote
Next on CCP's list: faction standing tags |
Kalgeroth
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:43:44 -
[148] - Quote
I've made my price predictions in the thread If anyone disagrees, thats cool, feel free to post your own price predictions
Then we will see who is correct in a few weeks/months |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
79
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:44:40 -
[149] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Unless a ton of PLEX were bought on the market, used to get AUR and that AUR used to buy items from the store. In other words, since the extractors costs AUR, people who do this for market games are most likely buying PLEX off the market, which will counterweight the PLEX that enters the market.
Honestly, I think much of that extra PLEX comes from PLEX hoards. Maybe even as much as half. People who have bought a PLEX or two off the market before for their pension, who now sees a need for a quick infusion of cash and sells it, or the serious market players, both could dump a lot of PLEX suddenly when they see the need. Short-term I'd see the PLEX market being volatile, but a slow trend upwards. When the SP market settles and you can calculate a steady profit, I'd guess PLEX rises more than before, since the extractors and SP farms are extra consumers, but I can't see where increased PLEX-purchase should come from, unless driven by a rising PLEX price ingame.
It's interesting to see, though. I wish I had good access to the EVE market data, this would be absolutely perfect to do some macroeconomics statistics and analysis on! +1
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
636
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:30:31 -
[150] - Quote
Weekly Jita updates on certain items is something that could earn my +1 every time. So thanks for that. |
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tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
212
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:33:51 -
[151] - Quote
Rhohan wrote:I just got rid of 36 mil SP I won't be using anymore. Yay Force Aux! Nice bit of ISK too.
be interested to know what was your overall profit margin? how much to buy, how much you sold, and whether it was actually worth it |
Rhohan
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 17:57:48 -
[152] - Quote
tiberiusric wrote:Rhohan wrote:I just got rid of 36 mil SP I won't be using anymore. Yay Force Aux! Nice bit of ISK too.
be interested to know what was your overall profit margin? how much to buy, how much you sold, and whether it was actually worth it
I simply bought by first extractor for around 300 mil isk, and sold it for around 630 mil isk. 330 mil isk for 500k SP.
Used the profits to buy more extractors, then sold when full.
Did that for all the SP I don't use anymore, which was about 25% of my total SP, on this char.
Did this for my alts as well and have made about 76 Bil on selling SP across two mains and two alts. Had a lot of redundant and useless SP from over the years.
Both my mains are still about 100 mil SP that I use, but the two alts were drained to min levels.
My only investment was the initial extractor, and of course, the cost of the sub to gain all the SP over the years. But, if I'm not using it anymore...
|
Smendrik Von'Smendle
Nutt 2 Butt
7
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 18:10:50 -
[153] - Quote
Prediction?.....PAIN
PLEX will be double(2-3bn) in price after the dust settles and people understand the real value of these injectors. |
Waylan Yutani
Danish Natural Gas Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 19:25:49 -
[154] - Quote
Theres a new rank 14 skill that needs skilling.. .fast.. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
102
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 19:29:39 -
[155] - Quote
Just ran some numbers and 1b isk per 1m SP gained at 60% loss seems kind of high.
Maybe CCP can offer bigger extractors so you don't have to pay 300m every time you use one?
Just a thought...
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Michael Turate
The Scope Gallente Federation
124
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 19:48:25 -
[156] - Quote
I got my isk out yesterday. Regardless of what happens in 2 months, this isk is now working today and generating tangible profit. Working isk is always better than idle isk in my book. Your mileage may, of course, vary. |
Pandora Bokks
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 01:03:53 -
[157] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:I was talking to Pandora, not about him .
Do I look that masculine? |
Dyllan Ma'tar
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 01:05:54 -
[158] - Quote
Chasida wrote:But who is buying all these injectors?! Any high skill char has little use for them, the gained skills are low for high skill chars compared to the cost, so the return will be rather small.
The only use I can see for this is low skill alts. Not even new players are likely the buyers, because they will not have the ISK to buy them.
Or are some people just hoarding the injectors, to speculate in ISK? If so I fear they will burn themselves...
I do understand who all the sellers are, but I do not understand who all the buyers (and users) are! As I said only logical buyers I can come up with are low skill alts for players with A LOT of ISK.
Maybe..., maybe..., some of us just want to eat your brains.
> Do not stubbornly rebel against the ways of the world. Do not mindlessly follow the ways of the world. Think lightly of yourself and think deeply of the world. You can abandon your own body, but never let go of your honor. Miyamoto Musashi, Dokkodo
|
Dyllan Ma'tar
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 01:09:35 -
[159] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:
He sounds like someone who's holding injectors, hoping to cash out in 1-2 months.
Ding ding ding ding ding!
> Do not stubbornly rebel against the ways of the world. Do not mindlessly follow the ways of the world. Think lightly of yourself and think deeply of the world. You can abandon your own body, but never let go of your honor. Miyamoto Musashi, Dokkodo
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5730
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 02:10:46 -
[160] - Quote
pajedas wrote:That's why they call it speculation.
No one knows. Heisen-market: It is simultaneously both rising and falling until directly observed. |
|
Doppleganger
Federated Holdings Libera Alliance
47
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 03:57:03 -
[161] - Quote
Chasida wrote:But who is buying all these injectors?! Any high skill char has little use for them, the gained skills are low for high skill chars compared to the cost, so the return will be rather small.
The only use I can see for this is low skill alts. Not even new players are likely the buyers, because they will not have the ISK to buy them.
Or are some people just hoarding the injectors, to speculate in ISK? If so I fear they will burn themselves...
I do understand who all the sellers are, but I do not understand who all the buyers (and users) are! As I said only logical buyers I can come up with are low skill alts for players with A LOT of ISK.
Well I dont know if they were all bought off market but a char that had 238.5 mil sp on 2-9-2016 has 340.11 mil sp on 2-11-2016 and another char that had 249.93 mil sp on 2-10-2016 has 276.34 mil sp on 2-11-2016 according to Eveboard.
So there are high skill chars that have uses for them and the isk to gain that much sp at that low return. Thats quite a few injectors used in just those 2 examples.
|
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
104
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 12:14:25 -
[162] - Quote
Doppleganger wrote:Well I dont know if they were all bought off market but a char that had 238.5 mil sp on 2-9-2016 has 340.11 mil sp on 2-11-2016 and another char that had 249.93 mil sp on 2-10-2016 has 276.34 mil sp on 2-11-2016 according to Eveboard.
So there are high skill chars that have uses for them and the isk to gain that much sp at that low return. Thats quite a few injectors used in just those 2 examples.
Stromgren FTW!
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Dr Mibbles
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 12:41:42 -
[163] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Doppleganger wrote:Well I dont know if they were all bought off market but a char that had 238.5 mil sp on 2-9-2016 has 340.11 mil sp on 2-11-2016 and another char that had 249.93 mil sp on 2-10-2016 has 276.34 mil sp on 2-11-2016 according to Eveboard.
So there are high skill chars that have uses for them and the isk to gain that much sp at that low return. Thats quite a few injectors used in just those 2 examples.
Stromgren FTW!
Crikey. He's increased by 100m SP over the last few days.
667 injectors @ 150k SP. Call it an average price of 650m.
That's 433,000,000,000 ISK... yes, 433bn isk
wow. And still only Fighter Bombers 4 |
Chasida
Instant Annihilation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 13:00:03 -
[164] - Quote
Doppleganger wrote:Chasida wrote:But who is buying all these injectors?! Any high skill char has little use for them, the gained skills are low for high skill chars compared to the cost, so the return will be rather small.
The only use I can see for this is low skill alts. Not even new players are likely the buyers, because they will not have the ISK to buy them.
Or are some people just hoarding the injectors, to speculate in ISK? If so I fear they will burn themselves...
I do understand who all the sellers are, but I do not understand who all the buyers (and users) are! As I said only logical buyers I can come up with are low skill alts for players with A LOT of ISK. Well I dont know if they were all bought off market but a char that had 238.5 mil sp on 2-9-2016 has 340.11 mil sp on 2-11-2016 and another char that had 249.93 mil sp on 2-10-2016 has 276.34 mil sp on 2-11-2016 according to Eveboard. So there are high skill chars that have uses for them and the isk to gain that much sp at that low return. Thats quite a few injectors used in just those 2 examples.
Well that was an astronomical amount of ISK used!! With a return of only 150 000 skill pr Injector, you have used 677 + 176 = 853 Injectors = roughly 597 BILLION ISK!!! And for those 597 BILLION ISK!!! you got roughly 2 741 days (roughly 91 months) worth of training.
597 BILLION ISK something most Eve players cannot even dream of making/hoarding. How you have been able to hoard that (pluss whatever you got left) with only max a accounts, maybe even one, is the question. Maybe mining for 10 years
Well at least that ISK is now spread more on to other players...
I for my part, am having a bit of a hard time justifying using Injectors for my lowbie alt, when they cost 650 000 000+, and just give me a return of about 10 days training pr injection (the full 500 000 skill points). So 1 Plex = 2 Injectors. I neither have the Plex or the ISK.
So in this aspect Eve has become 'Pay-To-Win', as long as the pilot is not a noob. Just buy a load of Plex with money, and trade in-game for Injectors, and voila you got skill points that will take others months or years to get.
PleaseSendISKKayThanxsBye hehehe |
Dr Mibbles
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 13:39:10 -
[165] - Quote
some interesting market developments on skill injectors and extractors
There is now a huge and growing supply of extractors on the market.
In Jita, there are 1,300 Skill Injectors on the market Whereas there are now 5,400 Skill Extractors
This is a huge change from the first few days where numbers were more-or-less even.
It currently profitable to buy plex in batches of 16, convert to AUR, get 70 extractors, then sell these on the market.
16 plex = 20bn Convert to AUR, get 70 extractors 70 extractors = 21bn
A quick, easy, 1bn profit. As more people do this, it appears to be creating an over-supply of extractors as well as sustained high plex prices. This over-supply of extractors could lead to a situation where there is a mis-match between the available SP to be extracted and extractors themselves.
The result? Could be an imminent price crash for extractors. |
Imalia Bloodlines
Imalia Bloodlines Warfare and Trading Corporation
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 17:51:06 -
[166] - Quote
Since this is a thread about speculations, let me ask, should I sell now my injectors or wait a bit? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7181
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 17:56:25 -
[167] - Quote
Imalia Bloodlines wrote:Since this is a thread about speculations, let me ask, should I sell now my injectors or wait a bit? Up to you.
Chances are, injector prices will go up in the long term. Once the immediate rush to sell has passed, and the sale on extractors is gone and PLEX has continued to rise a bit, the prices will go up. The real questions you have to consider though are: How much will it go up by? and How much can I make if I sell now and use the additional liquidity to trade/manufacture/whatever for profit?
The the latter is more than the former, then you should probably sell now as use the isk to trade/manufacture/whatever.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3762
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:06:17 -
[168] - Quote
In terms of markets affected by injectors: Has the character bazaar activity taken a hit?
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
106
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 22:15:26 -
[169] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:In terms of markets affected by injectors: Has the character bazaar activity taken a hit? I don't see it driving the prices up.
The math is pretty scary already:
Buy a 20m SP player for extraction. Net of 15m SP's.
@500m (average) per 1M Sp's the cost would be 10b.
30 extractors will cost you 8.94b @298m each. (18.94 Total)
@100% 1,262,666,667per 1m SP @80% 1,578,333,333per 1m SP @60% 2,104,444,444per 1m SP @30% 4,208,888,889per 1m SP
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
106
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 22:53:37 -
[170] - Quote
I left out the easy and obvious math but thought I'd add it.
The diminishing returns are rather steep.
On that same 20m SP player the net SP's are:
0-5 = 15m SP's 5-50 = 12m SP's 50-80 = 9m SP's >80 = 4.5m SP's
Sucks to have over 80m SP's!!!
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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iBLACK MAMBA
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:08:50 -
[171] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:In terms of markets affected by injectors: Has the character bazaar activity taken a hit?
characters are now worth more in the bazaar
you can get about 350m profit per 500,000 skillpoints
so any character, doesn't matter what their specialism is, is now worth 700m per 1m skillpoints
i.e. a 50m SP char will now reliably sell for around 35bn, even if they have crappy skills |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9840
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:14:36 -
[172] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Sucks to have over 80m SP's!!!
Au contraire my fellow forum person.
My 80M+ characters are quite happy where they are and the only reason they acquire more SPs is that it would be kind of dumb to be subbed and not training something.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1899
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:31:42 -
[173] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:pajedas wrote:Sucks to have over 80m SP's!!!
Au contraire my fellow forum person. My 80M+ characters are quite happy where they are and the only reason they acquire more SPs is that it would be kind of dumb to be subbed and not training something. Mr Epeen
Yeah, have a few characters that are training semi useless stuff because that is all I can find that they might someday use. I basically PLEX them to continue to use the char, but they already do everything they need to do so further training is kind of pointless. If there was a "PLEX for longer but no training" option I would opt for it.
AND ... before anyone suggests it ... I have way too much ISK already to bother selling off the excess SP . |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
106
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:36:53 -
[174] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:pajedas wrote:Sucks to have over 80m SP's!!!
Au contraire my fellow forum person. My 80M+ characters are quite happy where they are and the only reason they acquire more SPs is that it would be kind of dumb to be subbed and not training something. Mr Epeen I should have put that in better context.
Sucks to have over 80m SP's if you plan on buying more!!!
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:40:51 -
[175] - Quote
Its simply sticks with the existing nature of Eve Online, incremental additional benefit costs exponentially more.
You know, time differences between training a skill from 1 to 2 versus 2 to 3 and etc, or even bonus stacking on mods.
|
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
106
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:24:17 -
[176] - Quote
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:Its simply sticks with the existing nature of Eve Online, incremental additional benefit costs exponentially more.
You know, time differences between training a skill from 1 to 2 versus 2 to 3 and etc, or even bonus stacking on mods.
The difference kind sir is this...
"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." ~Matthew 5:45 King James Version (KJV)~
In other words, the instances that you referenced were always the same (1:1) for each citizen of New Eden.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:27:00 -
[177] - Quote
pajedas wrote: In other words, the instances that you referenced were always the same (1:1) for each citizen of New Eden.
So will these, once the players get to that same level of total SP.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1914
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:31:23 -
[178] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Barrett Fruitcake wrote:Its simply sticks with the existing nature of Eve Online, incremental additional benefit costs exponentially more.
You know, time differences between training a skill from 1 to 2 versus 2 to 3 and etc, or even bonus stacking on mods.
The difference kind sir is this... "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." ~ Matthew 5:45 King James Version (KJV)~ In other words, the instances that you referenced were always the same (1:1) for each citizen of New Eden. So are these if you want to include progressive expense as "1:1". Characters will all have the same return at the same SP, much as they have the same diminishing returns on training time as they advance in skill levels.
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
107
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 00:44:05 -
[179] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:So are these if you want to include progressive expense as "1:1". Characters will all have the same return at the same SP, much as they have the same diminishing returns on training time as they advance in skill levels. I wouldn't call it a diminishing return, per se. Longer training time to get progressively better at something makes sense to me.
Go to your local market and see if they change an old rich guy more for a pound of coffee than a poor young guy.
iBLACK MAMBA wrote:characters are now worth more in the bazaar
you can get about 350m profit per 500,000 skillpoints
so any character, doesn't matter what their specialism is, is now worth 700m per 1m skillpoints
i.e. a 50m SP char will now reliably sell for around 35bn, even if they have crappy skills Your math and reasoning are incorrect.
Please run the numbers again...
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:07:31 -
[180] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:So are these if you want to include progressive expense as "1:1". Characters will all have the same return at the same SP, much as they have the same diminishing returns on training time as they advance in skill levels. I wouldn't call it a diminishing return, per se. Longer training time to get progressively better at something makes sense to me.
You may not call it that per se, but it is a diminishing return.
Making sense to you or not does not validate if it is a diminishing return or not. Doing some simple math does.
IE.
Takes 1 of some action to get to Level B. Takes 2 more to get to C. = Diminishing return for your effort. Get 10 benefit from some thing at this level. Get 8 benefit at next level = Diminishing return for your consumption |
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pajedas
Warlord of Mars
107
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:29:50 -
[181] - Quote
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:Takes 1 of some action to get to Level B. Takes 2 more to get to C. = Diminishing return for your effort. Get 10 benefit from some thing at this level. Get 8 benefit at next level = Diminishing return for your consumption I honestly don't care to argue that point. We'll say you're 100% right.
Now, that effort is equal for each player as they progress through the training process (1:1).
If someone with 200m SP's decides to train mining to level 1, he will progress at the same rate as anyone else, depending on attribute distribution and implants.
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1914
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 02:17:27 -
[182] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:So are these if you want to include progressive expense as "1:1". Characters will all have the same return at the same SP, much as they have the same diminishing returns on training time as they advance in skill levels. I wouldn't call it a diminishing return, per se. Longer training time to get progressively better at something makes sense to me. Go to your local market and see if they change an old rich guy more for a pound of coffee than a poor young guy. That metaphor doesn't really apply since the cost of our "can of coffee" is the same for the rich and poor. Wealth, which is Isk rather than SP, has nothing to do with it. With one the can doesn't go as far since he's a caffeine junky and needs a whole pot to get going on his day, the other only needs a single cup as he just started drinking coffee for the same effect.
The rich or poor guy could be either one, and they still pay the same price per can.
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 02:45:48 -
[183] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Barrett Fruitcake wrote:Takes 1 of some action to get to Level B. Takes 2 more to get to C. = Diminishing return for your effort. Get 10 benefit from some thing at this level. Get 8 benefit at next level = Diminishing return for your consumption I honestly don't care to argue that point. We'll say you're 100% right. Now, that effort is equal for each player as they progress through the training process (1:1). If someone with 200m SP's decides to train mining to level 1, he will progress at the same rate as anyone else, depending on attribute distribution and implants.
One is a diminishing return based upon current level of the specific skill. One is a diminishing return based upon current SP total.
You can have diminishing returns based upon different things, as shown. Now, the fact you don't like it that is different.
The issue is the lack of logic in your specific argument, not the overall argument itself.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4696
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 03:00:06 -
[184] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:pajedas wrote:Sucks to have over 80m SP's!!!
Au contraire my fellow forum person. My 80M+ characters are quite happy where they are and the only reason they acquire more SPs is that it would be kind of dumb to be subbed and not training something. Mr Epeen
Have to agree, my two characters with over 80 million...quite happy with them. My main, the one I'm posting on, very happy, almost no crap skills, IMO. Mining to a bare minimum (couldn't even fill a single injector). Almost all combat.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
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Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
632
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 03:09:27 -
[185] - Quote
Imalia Bloodlines wrote:Since this is a thread about speculations, let me ask, should I sell now my injectors or wait a bit? Buy/sell order prices will eventually converge to roughly 0.54-0.56 PLEX, since SP and extractor costs are tied to PLEX price. So, if you think PLEX prices will rise significantly, then hold on to them. However, PLEX prices have had difficulty getting and staying north of 1.2B, since CCP has been announcing PLEX sales as the price starts to slope up.
IMO, best to sell now, with a high markup, in a region without a major hub, and thus fewer sell orders. In some regions, injectors have sold for more than 950M ISK each. This roughly corresponding to a PLEX price of 1.75B ISK, which I don't think we'll reach for quite a while. |
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
632
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 03:26:10 -
[186] - Quote
Chasida wrote:Well that was an astronomical amount of ISK used!! With a return of only 150 000 skill pr Injector, you have used 677 + 176 = 853 Injectors = roughly 597 BILLION ISK!!! And for those 597 BILLION ISK!!! you got roughly 2 741 days (roughly 91 months) worth of training. 597 BILLION ISK is something most Eve players cannot even dream of making/hoarding. How you have been able to hoard that (pluss whatever you got left) with only max 2 accounts, maybe even one, is the question. Maybe mining for 10 years 597B ISK really isn't astronomical, not these days. Most of the Incursion farmers can bank that easily, as well as many of the market traders, not to mention players like Gevlon. From looking at the weekly kills on minerbumping.com, a lot of the CODE members -and their victims - seem to have no problem padding their wallets, as well.
Keep in mind, too, that when you do have that much ISK, and making billions more, per week or per day, there isn't really anything to spend it on.
So, after you have already stockpiled enough PLEX to sub all of your accounts for 5-10 years, then buying SP, even at 150K per injector, is worth it. In your example, the player in question managed to skip 7.5 years worth of training - that is not too bad for ISK that would otherwise just be sitting idle in his/her wallet. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4696
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 04:46:13 -
[187] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:Chasida wrote:Well that was an astronomical amount of ISK used!! With a return of only 150 000 skill pr Injector, you have used 677 + 176 = 853 Injectors = roughly 597 BILLION ISK!!! And for those 597 BILLION ISK!!! you got roughly 2 741 days (roughly 91 months) worth of training. 597 BILLION ISK is something most Eve players cannot even dream of making/hoarding. How you have been able to hoard that (pluss whatever you got left) with only max 2 accounts, maybe even one, is the question. Maybe mining for 10 years 597B ISK really isn't astronomical, not these days. Most of the Incursion farmers can bank that easily, as well as many of the market traders, not to mention players like Gevlon. From looking at the weekly kills on minerbumping.com, a lot of the CODE members -and their victims - seem to have no problem padding their wallets, as well. Keep in mind, too, that when you do have that much ISK, and making billions more, per week or per day, there isn't really anything to spend it on. So, after you have already stockpiled enough PLEX to sub all of your accounts for 5-10 years, then buying SP, even at 150K per injector, is worth it. In your example, the player in question managed to skip 7.5 years worth of training - that is not too bad for ISK that would otherwise just be sitting idle in his/her wallet.
Have to agree, keep in mind that about 1 trillion ISK enters the game economy per day. Granted not all of it goes into 1 or even 5 players pocket, but there is alot of IKS entering the economy.
But it may very well be that SP trading is not only an SP sink...it could be an ISK sink.
ISK -> PLEX -> Aurum -> Extractors -> Injectors -> Another Player's ISK
The ISK at the start of this process is sunk out of game, the ISK at the end is moved between walllets so the net result is less ISK.
Yes, no? Feedback appreciated.
Edit:
Have to wonder....are CCP crazy...crazy like foxes?
My initial view was SP trading in this fashion was...a good idea. Then I thought, no maybe bad.
Now I am wondering...maybe it is good....
High SP characters are likely the source of the SP on the market. Maybe this is good to the extent that new players see old players as having some sort of insurmountable advantage to to massive SP differentials. Now some of that SP is moving to new players.
Second, SP are simply being sunk out of game. That is, the difference between high SP characters and low SP characters has narrowed, on average--in terms of SP we have moved back in time...back to when players online was growing? IDK, but maybe.
The market does not seem to have caused any major problems....yet, and that last part is critical. Will, for example, SP farms create a problem? IDK to be quite honest.
But in looking at this....
Does it bring in more money for CCP? If yes, then good as they can continue to operate and provide the game I like.
Does SP trading in its current form mean SP in the game, in total is increasing? No! If anything SP stays the same or decreases, based on anecdotes, total SP in game in decreasing.
Is there a problem with this new market...too soon to say, IMO. Give a couple to three months then we'll see.
Maybe my initial view was right....v0v
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Aiwha
Infinite Point Northern Army
948
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 04:50:35 -
[188] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Sizeof Void wrote:Chasida wrote:Well that was an astronomical amount of ISK used!! With a return of only 150 000 skill pr Injector, you have used 677 + 176 = 853 Injectors = roughly 597 BILLION ISK!!! And for those 597 BILLION ISK!!! you got roughly 2 741 days (roughly 91 months) worth of training. 597 BILLION ISK is something most Eve players cannot even dream of making/hoarding. How you have been able to hoard that (pluss whatever you got left) with only max 2 accounts, maybe even one, is the question. Maybe mining for 10 years 597B ISK really isn't astronomical, not these days. Most of the Incursion farmers can bank that easily, as well as many of the market traders, not to mention players like Gevlon. From looking at the weekly kills on minerbumping.com, a lot of the CODE members -and their victims - seem to have no problem padding their wallets, as well. Keep in mind, too, that when you do have that much ISK, and making billions more, per week or per day, there isn't really anything to spend it on. So, after you have already stockpiled enough PLEX to sub all of your accounts for 5-10 years, then buying SP, even at 150K per injector, is worth it. In your example, the player in question managed to skip 7.5 years worth of training - that is not too bad for ISK that would otherwise just be sitting idle in his/her wallet. Have to agree, keep in mind that about 1 trillion ISK enters the game economy per day. Granted not all of it goes into 1 or even 5 players pocket, but there is alot of IKS entering the economy. But it may very well be that SP trading is not only an SP sink...it could be an ISK sink. ISK -> PLEX -> Aurum -> Extractors -> Injectors -> Another Player's ISK The ISK at the start of this process is sunk out of game, the ISK at the end is moved between walllets so the net result is less ISK. Yes, no? Feedback appreciated.
No, the isk that goes to PLEX goes into the pocket of a player that paid cash for the PLEX. SP trading is not an isk sink in any way shape or form.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Aiwha for CSM XI
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4696
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 04:55:41 -
[189] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Sizeof Void wrote:Chasida wrote:Well that was an astronomical amount of ISK used!! With a return of only 150 000 skill pr Injector, you have used 677 + 176 = 853 Injectors = roughly 597 BILLION ISK!!! And for those 597 BILLION ISK!!! you got roughly 2 741 days (roughly 91 months) worth of training. 597 BILLION ISK is something most Eve players cannot even dream of making/hoarding. How you have been able to hoard that (pluss whatever you got left) with only max 2 accounts, maybe even one, is the question. Maybe mining for 10 years 597B ISK really isn't astronomical, not these days. Most of the Incursion farmers can bank that easily, as well as many of the market traders, not to mention players like Gevlon. From looking at the weekly kills on minerbumping.com, a lot of the CODE members -and their victims - seem to have no problem padding their wallets, as well. Keep in mind, too, that when you do have that much ISK, and making billions more, per week or per day, there isn't really anything to spend it on. So, after you have already stockpiled enough PLEX to sub all of your accounts for 5-10 years, then buying SP, even at 150K per injector, is worth it. In your example, the player in question managed to skip 7.5 years worth of training - that is not too bad for ISK that would otherwise just be sitting idle in his/her wallet. Have to agree, keep in mind that about 1 trillion ISK enters the game economy per day. Granted not all of it goes into 1 or even 5 players pocket, but there is alot of IKS entering the economy. But it may very well be that SP trading is not only an SP sink...it could be an ISK sink. ISK -> PLEX -> Aurum -> Extractors -> Injectors -> Another Player's ISK The ISK at the start of this process is sunk out of game, the ISK at the end is moved between walllets so the net result is less ISK. Yes, no? Feedback appreciated. No, the isk that goes to PLEX goes into the pocket of a player that paid cash for the PLEX. SP trading is not an isk sink in any way shape or form.
The ISK sink is that you pay say 300 billion ISK for SP, but only get 100 billion ISK of SP.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
1096
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 05:00:06 -
[190] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Aiwha wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Sizeof Void wrote:Chasida wrote:Well that was an astronomical amount of ISK used!! With a return of only 150 000 skill pr Injector, you have used 677 + 176 = 853 Injectors = roughly 597 BILLION ISK!!! And for those 597 BILLION ISK!!! you got roughly 2 741 days (roughly 91 months) worth of training. 597 BILLION ISK is something most Eve players cannot even dream of making/hoarding. How you have been able to hoard that (pluss whatever you got left) with only max 2 accounts, maybe even one, is the question. Maybe mining for 10 years 597B ISK really isn't astronomical, not these days. Most of the Incursion farmers can bank that easily, as well as many of the market traders, not to mention players like Gevlon. From looking at the weekly kills on minerbumping.com, a lot of the CODE members -and their victims - seem to have no problem padding their wallets, as well. Keep in mind, too, that when you do have that much ISK, and making billions more, per week or per day, there isn't really anything to spend it on. So, after you have already stockpiled enough PLEX to sub all of your accounts for 5-10 years, then buying SP, even at 150K per injector, is worth it. In your example, the player in question managed to skip 7.5 years worth of training - that is not too bad for ISK that would otherwise just be sitting idle in his/her wallet. Have to agree, keep in mind that about 1 trillion ISK enters the game economy per day. Granted not all of it goes into 1 or even 5 players pocket, but there is alot of IKS entering the economy. But it may very well be that SP trading is not only an SP sink...it could be an ISK sink. ISK -> PLEX -> Aurum -> Extractors -> Injectors -> Another Player's ISK The ISK at the start of this process is sunk out of game, the ISK at the end is moved between walllets so the net result is less ISK. Yes, no? Feedback appreciated. No, the isk that goes to PLEX goes into the pocket of a player that paid cash for the PLEX. SP trading is not an isk sink in any way shape or form. The ISK sink is that you pay say 300 billion ISK for SP, but only get 100 billion ISK of SP. It's an SP sink, not an ISK sink. There's no ISK removed from the economy anywhere in this equation except for sales tax and broker's fees. |
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
301
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 05:09:01 -
[191] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
The ISK sink is that you pay say 300 billion ISK for SP, but only get 100 billion ISK of SP.
You are actually paying for injectors.
What's lost isn't isk, it's sp when someone retrieves less than what was put in. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Northern Army
954
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 05:54:41 -
[192] - Quote
An ISK sink would be if CCP required you to pay isk in order to initially acquire the extractors.
Think of the entire EVE economy as one big wallet. Things like ratting ticks put money into the wallet, things like skillbook purchases from NPC corps take money out of it. Anything player>player however just moves money around inside the wallet.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Aiwha for CSM XI
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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
427
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 13:02:22 -
[193] - Quote
Kalgeroth wrote:Here are my price predictions:Per Injector Day 1-7: 650-700m Day 8-14: 750-800m Day 15-30: 850-950m Day 30-60: 1bn-1.2bn Then, a slow decline as SP alt farms start extracting in more volume. Final price: 800m.
The premium value of 800m you pay for skill injectors over plex, coz instant gratification, is spot on. This in turn will rubberband the price of plex upwards, to the predicted 1,666 B at around fanfest source: http://show.gamingradio.net/2015/09/27/this-week-in-new-eden-pizza-mmm-pizza-27th-september-2015/
Regards, a Freelancer
ps: skill injectors are like drugs m'kay, once you use it you want more but with diminishing returns.
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games pay More to win at skill training time, now with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 13:06:08 -
[194] - Quote
Yep, ISK sinks are when ISK is paid to a non-player and it simply dis-appears from the game. ISK faucets are when ISK is created out of thing air like ratting and mission bounties and rewards.
Anything else is wealth redistribution within the game, like moon goo or minerals. Though, moon goo allowed for insane amounts of wealth redistribution to the very few while normal mining did not. But that's another topic.
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NUBIARN
Brutal Ballerinas
24
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Posted - 2016.02.12 13:56:06 -
[195] - Quote
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:Yep, ISK sinks are when ISK is paid to a non-player and it simply dis-appears from the game. ISK faucets are when ISK is created out of thing air like ratting and mission bounties and rewards.
Anything else is wealth redistribution within the game, like moon goo or minerals. Though, moon goo allowed for insane amounts of wealth redistribution to the very few while normal mining did not. But that's another topic.
the first person I have read on the forums that actually understands this !! |
Dr Mibbles
State War Academy Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 14:56:06 -
[196] - Quote
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:Yep, ISK sinks are when ISK is paid to a non-player and it simply dis-appears from the game. ISK faucets are when ISK is created out of thing air like ratting and mission bounties and rewards.
Anything else is wealth redistribution within the game, like moon goo or minerals. Though, moon goo allowed for insane amounts of wealth redistribution to the very few while normal mining did not. But that's another topic.
Spot on.
Skill Injectors are a great redistribution of wealth, as they finally give players who 'have it all' something to waste their vast ISK reserves on. I'm not sure what EVE's gini coefficient is, but I'm betting that it's pretty shocking. |
pajedas
Warlord of Mars
140
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:06:59 -
[197] - Quote
Spaceman(2) passes Dr Caymus(3)!
Stromgren is holding onto his new #1 spot!
Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading
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Chasida
Instant Annihilation
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 09:58:24 -
[198] - Quote
As of now, looks like most predictions here about prices are wrong. Both Plex and Injector prices are falling... I held onto a few Plex since I also were guessing prices would rise, but they are falling, so I just sold them. |
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