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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.06 17:03:00 -
[31]
Originally by: A Brr
Originally by: hotgirl933 corp on corp should be starting price of 20m ISK per week alliances on corp and alliances should start at 200m a week
I think your numbers are way to low. More realistic values are 1b for corp wars and 10b for alliance wars. 200m is only the value of 2 BS, aliances are building titans with overall costs of 100b+. So 10b per week should help aliances consider what they are doing ;)
...says the guy in "Empire Trader Alliance".
ffs, join a noobcorp if you want to be immune to wars. I promise, when you join SWA, the game doesn't magically revoke your TS/Vent access; you can still coordinate with your friends. If you want the conveniences that an in-game, formal corporation offers, accept that you will pay for them.
Now, all that said, corporation-to-corporation wardecs are a bit cheap atm.
--P
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ViolenTUK
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Posted - 2007.02.06 17:39:00 -
[32]
There should be a high price for declaring a war as there is in real life and it should be very easy to stop a war. www.eve-players.com |
Rose Nuke
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Posted - 2007.02.06 17:46:00 -
[33]
but its stupid when corps war dec manufacturing corps just for isk its pointless and is unfair.
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ChanibintLiet
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Posted - 2007.02.06 23:20:00 -
[34]
As it is I think the system makes it too easy for anyone to war dec anyone else just because they feel like it. No reasons need to be given. nothing. just pay the fee and off you go. that leaves groups like Privateers alliance free to war dec half of EVE. Rumor has it that they have something like 60 wars going on at any given time. Do they have a reason to war dec that many groups? No. Most of their corps are known pirate corps. these war decs just let give them and others freedom to abuse the system and cause problems. The way I see it the system is ripe for change. what those changes should be is up for debate. maybe a limit to the number of wars you may partisapate in should be put into effect. maybe make it more costly to declare war. maybe wars should shoud be limited on a reagonal basis since most wars are about taratory in some way or another. you want a map wide war, it's gonna cost an arm and a leg. maybe this could also include the decing parties standings with that regions controling faction. If you have good standings, the cost of war is less or the rules of engagement are less. if you have bad standings the cost is much higher and you'd be limited to where you could fight. say not around stations or gates since they don't wat your war desturbing others. maybe the cost of each war you declair should go up with each party you declare war on. so one war would be base price. second war base price + some figure based on reagonal standings, leadership skills, what ever. say base X 1.5 for second war. third war, base (base + second war) x 2 or something to that effect. you get the idea. The more you wanna fight, the more you stand to gain from the stuff you recover from the wrecks and more it should cost to wage the war. these are just a few ideas. I'm sure other have their own ideas on this just as I'm sure the pirates want to leave things just the way they are or make it even easier to get their kicks at other people expence.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.08 07:45:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Rose Nuke but its stupid when corps war dec manufacturing corps just for isk its pointless and is unfair.
Its war.
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Cythe Oman
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Posted - 2007.02.09 01:58:00 -
[36]
On a couple ocasions my corp or alience has had a war declared upon them for reasons of griefing and extortion. A PVP fitted group sends in a spy to locate corps home port and simply moves their assets into neighboring systems to destroy and pod ships untill a ransom is paied or jsut for grief's sake.
In the past i have found the best and only weapon aginst these people is a war of attrition. "Victory thru boredome" refuse to speek, pay, or undock, untill the rival corp removes the war. all you have to do is train some long skills and log off for a week the enemy eventualy gets tired of camping people who never come out. You can uasualy find the spy at this point too by back tracking and investigating the people who joined recently.
But yes i would like to see a decline option to war in high sec space.
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BigWhale
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.09 06:49:00 -
[37]
Edited by: BigWhale on 09/02/2007 06:46:08 If I don't want a war with you, then leave me alone in high-sec empire or face concord's wrath upon you.
You, 'the germany' can invade me 'the poland' on my grounds (0.0), but you just can't kill my people in 'the switzerland' (Empire) without their police to come after you.
This is not so difficult to understand. And it is very logical.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.02.09 10:26:00 -
[38]
People seem to forget. One of the key features of eve is player to player interaction. This includes but is not limited to ship to ship combat.
This is not a solo trading or empire building game. There are plenty of those availeble already.
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Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.09 10:31:00 -
[39]
Originally by: BigWhale Edited by: BigWhale on 09/02/2007 06:46:08 If I don't want a war with you, then leave me alone in high-sec empire or face concord's wrath upon you.
You, 'the germany' can invade me 'the poland' on my grounds (0.0), but you just can't kill my people in 'the switzerland' (Empire) without their police to come after you.
This is not so difficult to understand. And it is very logical.
Ok to clear things up I have never been part of any corp that war decs Empire Indy corps BUT I was once in an Indy corp that got decced (and we faught back lost many ships but after we inflicted enough losses they dropped the dec).
Now to your point, it is your tough luck if someone wardecs you deal with it! Either jump into cruisers and frigs and show them that carebears also have claws or hire mercs. I think hell would freeze over before your idea/thaught became a reality. Not to mention that it would turn EVE-O into carebear central.
Originally by: Blind Man okies so liek when u warp in on them u shod target them... and stuff k.then u FIRE ZE MISSILES
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BigWhale
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.09 11:32:00 -
[40]
Being able to decline 'declared' war would not remove the PVP from EVE. It would just move more of it to 0.0... Where I think it should happen.
Pure industrial/trade corp can hardly stand a chance to a decent organised pvp corp. Want to get rid of them? Put them out of bussiness! Strip mine their fields, keep undercutting their prices on the market.
I just think that fighting should be done in 0.0 and low-sec empire.
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BigWhale
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.09 11:37:00 -
[41]
Probably declining is not an option, but preventing fights in high-sec empire would do the trick. If there is a corp living in empire, so be it.
Hell, the more I think about this, the more I have no idea what would be a good solution. I can understand declaring a war, no problem with that. But there are those that abuse this and there are those that really are not able to fight back.
So, now they shouldn't be playing the game?
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Maximillian Power
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Posted - 2007.02.09 12:29:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Maximillian Power on 09/02/2007 12:26:20 I think that no matter what solution is implemented to this there is always going to be some portion of the Eve playing population who thinks that it is not the way they want it to be. This is cool - everyone entitled to their own opinion and all that.
Personally - I think the thing about Eve is that it is meant to be ruthless and cutthroat. Whether your means of taking out your competitor is via ships which kill, or ships which mine - or if you just want to have a price war on the market place.
What declared wars do, much more than take ISK off of the declarer, is force that the corporation which wants to do the killing must notify the competitor that they are going to do this to them. This, IMO, is the main effect. This allows the target in high sec areas to prepare their counter operations in advance and take suitable actions.
I think that it is a good idea to increase the cost to the corp doing the war declaration as 2m is generateable from 30 minutes easy missioning.
Perhaps a pricing structure based on the difference between the number of players in both corps. This means that unfair, pure gank the target wars, are more expensive than others. Ok - it doesn't get them all, but it gets a lot of them.
Basically I can see all points of view - but at the end of the day the game must stay true to its own vision, and if that makes you not want to play the game then so be it. Its a pity and I hope those people can find a game which DOES do what they want it to do. I think that a lot of people want the function though. I think that with some small tweakings it could be better - but there are others who would disagree. meh...
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Snidley wiplash
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Posted - 2007.02.09 13:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Maximillian Power Edited by: Maximillian Power on 09/02/2007 12:26:20 I think that no matter what solution is implemented to this there is always going to be some portion of the Eve playing population who thinks that it is not the way they want it to be. This is cool - everyone entitled to their own opinion and all that.
Personally - I think the thing about Eve is that it is meant to be ruthless and cutthroat. Whether your means of taking out your competitor is via ships which kill, or ships which mine - or if you just want to have a price war on the market place.
What declared wars do, much more than take ISK off of the declarer, is force that the corporation which wants to do the killing must notify the competitor that they are going to do this to them. This, IMO, is the main effect. This allows the target in high sec areas to prepare their counter operations in advance and take suitable actions.
I think that it is a good idea to increase the cost to the corp doing the war declaration as 2m is generateable from 30 minutes easy missioning.
Perhaps a pricing structure based on the difference between the number of players in both corps. This means that unfair, pure gank the target wars, are more expensive than others. Ok - it doesn't get them all, but it gets a lot of them.
Basically I can see all points of view - but at the end of the day the game must stay true to its own vision, and if that makes you not want to play the game then so be it. Its a pity and I hope those people can find a game which DOES do what they want it to do. I think that a lot of people want the function though. I think that with some small tweakings it could be better - but there are others who would disagree. meh...
here here i love max's idea after reading the whole thing i have to agree.
i understand the mining corps complaints becuse im part miner and it ****es me off to no end when im just siting in a belt minding my own businies and a war target pop on top of me. on the other had it was my fault for not keeping an eye on local.
now to my carebare side
but with maxe's idea of having to pay more do decc a minieng corp or a small corp you should have to pay more. its one thing to want to fight another corp over a loss of goods or smak talk but its another to just slauter some one just becuse you can.
and for the finalie
all you pirates out there that are soo good with 10 mill SP stop crying if your the pirates you think you are you will over come it. if your not that pirate you thoght you were your just a carebare incogneto.
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Sarf
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Posted - 2007.02.10 21:07:00 -
[44]
I would like to see it that a war decked corp can Protest to concord.
It costs Corp A Y isk a week to run a way. If the attacked corp declines then the attacker pays 10x Y isk a week.
Now the stick part, Corp A can attack Corp B freely, but corp B can't attack Corp A, they can defend them selves if attacked, but if they attack then concord will kill Corp B's ship.
So basically if Corp A really wants to kill corp B they can pay the higher cost, if not they cancel the war. This will put Corp B at a disavantage in that they can't attack a member of Corp A but can defend them selves, Corp A has protection because if corp B has overwhelming numbers then they don't attack and no one can kill anyone. Corp A if they want to pay the extra isk then can hunt to there hearts content. and Corp B can still defend themselves.
This would make empire wars a little less likely but still allow a grudge to be settled.
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tarballicus
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Posted - 2007.02.11 03:10:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Blind Man
Originally by: Gno Chalynn Basically war dec'ing allows the enjoyment of the game by the war dec'ing group to override the enjoyment of the group being war dec'd. I think the PVP groups should war dec each other, but then it is no fun being a bully and going up against a worthy opponent on equal grounds.
then go play WoW silly
Whatever, we all pay our 15.00 per month, we have as much right to desire/request a style of play we like as you PvPers have to yours.
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2007.02.11 03:14:00 -
[46]
Originally by: tarballicus
Originally by: Blind Man
Originally by: Gno Chalynn Basically war dec'ing allows the enjoyment of the game by the war dec'ing group to override the enjoyment of the group being war dec'd. I think the PVP groups should war dec each other, but then it is no fun being a bully and going up against a worthy opponent on equal grounds.
then go play WoW silly
Whatever, we all pay our 15.00 per month, we have as much right to desire/request a style of play we like as you PvPers have to yours.
your almost right
pvpers are trying to preserve this PVP game
over zealous carebears want to change it so there are safe happy areas where no one dies but NPCs.
Thats not EvE. Thats not the game that has been so successful for 3 years. You want to make EvE somethinng its not. So no, you dont have as much of a right, this isn't a carebear game.
Just cause someone shells out $15 for subscription doesn't mean the game needs to adjust to fit their playstyle.
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tarballicus
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Posted - 2007.02.11 10:15:00 -
[47]
Originally by: HankMurphy
your almost right
pvpers are trying to preserve this PVP game
over zealous carebears want to change it so there are safe happy areas where no one dies but NPCs.
Thats not EvE. Thats not the game that has been so successful for 3 years. You want to make EvE somethinng its not. So no, you dont have as much of a right, this isn't a carebear game.
Just cause someone shells out $15 for subscription doesn't mean the game needs to adjust to fit their playstyle.
While I respect your PoV, where, in all the materials available on this site (those I inspected before subscribing), does it say that the considerations for accomodating PvP are foremost in the game?
this is what I read when I was considering the game:
Quote: The diversity and flexibility of EVE makes it difficult to categorize it by conventional standards. What it is depends on the level at which it is played.
The game is set in an unknown portion of space, spanning thousands of solar systems, many of which are settled. Players begin by creating an in-game character equipped with a basic spaceship ready to explore the world. As they get acquainted with life in EVE, players can trade goods between systems or conduct other money-making ventures such as mining asteroids, transporting goods as a courier or even cleaning up debris for recycling. Financial gains made through such activities can be used to upgrade the ship with weapons and equipment and also to develop the character by purchasing skill packs used for training him or her in various skills he will need to advance in the world of EVE.
When a player has mastered the basics of the game, aquired some money and equipment and advanced his or her character through basic skills, the possibilities become almost endless. Players who wish to explore peaceful paths may continue to upgrade their ships to bigger and better cargo vessels with high-end defenses, purchase advanced mining or research equipment and continue to develop their characters by specializing in their preferred skills. Others may elect to pursue a more dangerous path such as piracy, smuggling or bounty hunting.
So, no, nowhere in there does it say, "PvPing only." I realize that PvPers will denigrate anyone not on their "I like to kill doodz" mentality, but there are some who want to do other things. It is reasonable to block out a space for people not interested in PvP, just as 0.0 space is blocked out for the PvPers.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.02.11 18:22:00 -
[48]
you missed:
The basic role-playing and space simulation aspects of EVE are really just the tip of the iceberg. When players band together to form factions and alliances, the game progresses to a more grand-scale strategic level. Political intrigue, corporate espionage and the very essence of Darwinism bring dimension and depth to the game as the struggle for fame and fortune ebbs and flows with each new day in EVE.
However, the level at which each player decides to participate is a matter of personal choice. The game leaves ample room for continual progress and variety in all its solo playing aspects. For those who opt to do so, becoming the best lone-wolf pirate or bounty hunter is a never-ending task as the competitors are other human players who will employ every method at their disposal to gain an edge over the rest. Solo players are also able to hire out their services as mercenaries or hit men to other players or player-run corporations.
and for darwinism look at Darwinism
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korrey
Taurus Inc
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Posted - 2007.02.11 19:44:00 -
[49]
To the OP, you seemed to have missed the point of a war-dec totally. We dont randomly war-dec any jo collins, generally it only relates to stopping an alliances supply line that runs through empire.
It has been said before and it will be said again. EvE, as much as you hate to admit it, is a PvP game. Mining, manafacturing, construction and reselling are all added features.
Ever wondered why 9/10 ships are combat related? And for the corps that do randomly war-dec in empire, thats their issue. Its their money, their ammo and their manpower spent on killing you. Good for them, join a noob corp so they cant war-dec you if it bothers you that much.
Or better yet...move regions. Or even better yet (my personal favorite) Fight back. That generally takes Empire griefing corps by surprise.
My point? Suck it up or pack it up. Thats the way EvE is.
----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues
1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted |
Sovereign533
Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.12 01:25:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Sovereign533 on 12/02/2007 01:24:09
Originally by: Gno Chalynn When a corporation\alliance declares war on another corporation\alliance, there should be a way to decline the war. Fighting can still take place in 0.0 with no interference, but the controled empire space should be allowed to remain safe.
i so totally agree... it's really annoying to have privateers all over the place... we cannot get our badger's out, our sigils are stuck in stations... and we cannot mine veld in empire anymore...
feel teh sarcasm? =p
edit : uhm, not my point to flame or smack priv, they are fun =p... but to prove the point that empire wardecs can be a slight annoyance to some 0.0 alliances/corporations. we now have to actually escort freighters in stead of letting them afk jump trough empire... so if we declined the wardec, we wouldn't have to do this, so no more freighter escorting. (or use alts, whatever hehe)
Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... Added pink because it was lacking - Petwraith
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tarballicus
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Posted - 2007.02.12 03:13:00 -
[51]
Edited by: tarballicus on 12/02/2007 03:12:16
Originally by: Leneerra you missed:
The basic role-playing and space simulation aspects of EVE are really just the tip of the iceberg. When players band together to form factions and alliances, the game progresses to a more grand-scale strategic level. Political intrigue, corporate espionage and the very essence of Darwinism bring dimension and depth to the game as the struggle for fame and fortune ebbs and flows with each new day in EVE.
However, the level at which each player decides to participate is a matter of personal choice. The game leaves ample room for continual progress and variety in all its solo playing aspects. For those who opt to do so, becoming the best lone-wolf pirate or bounty hunter is a never-ending task as the competitors are other human players who will employ every method at their disposal to gain an edge over the rest. Solo players are also able to hire out their services as mercenaries or hit men to other players or player-run corporations.
and for darwinism look at Darwinism
I am aware of what Darwinism is, I attended class when that lecture was given
Thanks for the input; your point is taken. However, the game affords many levels and styles of play, as you indicate. As such, it is reasonable to desire a slice of the galaxy to "do your thing."
Of course, the real answer to this is: if you want to play solo and do non-violent things, don't join a corp. How will people who want to explore non-violent activities together gain formal cooperation opportunities? The prevailing answer is: they can't, short of forming short-lived gangs.
What I've learned is: stick with the NPC corps if you want to do non-violent things. I've also learned that EVE is essentially lawless.
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deathforge
The Accursed
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:21:00 -
[52]
Edited by: deathforge on 12/02/2007 14:18:11
Originally by: Rose Nuke but its stupid when corps war dec manufacturing corps just for isk its pointless and is unfair.
It's not pointless, you even managed to contradict yourself in one brilliant, whiney sentence. ISK = the point. If it's unfair to you, that's no one's fault but your own, suck it up and try to quit, well, sucking.
And by the way, I rule you.
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Low skillpoint Rifter piracy video |
Slaptastic
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Posted - 2007.02.12 18:45:00 -
[53]
"But its stupid when corps war dec manufacturing corps just for isk its pointless and is unfair."
Its pretty unfair when someone crashes a plain into the World Trade center. Don't you think that was as 'unfair' as things come?
EvE may be a game but the aspects of war stay the same. War tends to be unfair.
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Mitchman
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2007.02.12 18:49:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Gno Chalynn When a corporation\alliance declares war on another corporation\alliance, there should be a way to decline the war. Fighting can still take place in 0.0 with no interference, but the controled empire space should be allowed to remain safe.
No. EVE is not WoW.
New video: All Aboard The Pain Train
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Karanth
Gallente Crazy 88's O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.02.17 04:30:00 -
[55]
Well, here's a thought: If I can pay CONCORD to ignore my actions, why can't I pay CONCORD to cause other mayhem? I should be able to pay them to cause my targets issues, like increasing time for jumping through gates, and refusing docking rights, among other things.
And why stop there? Why can't I go up to a representative of, for example, Caldari Steel, or the Federation Navy, and get the same privileges? It's my ISK, so why can't I cause my foes as much problems as possible?
Hey, let's keep going, this is too fun! Why can't I pay the owners of a station to tell me what ships my enemy has in his hanger, or in the corp hangers? Or maybe throw some ISK out there, and get the station keeper to throw my foe who won't sack up into cold space?
Ooh ooh, I know! Why not make it so that I can get saboteurs to damage my foes ships while they are docked? Have their drones and ammo go "missing", or maybe put modules offline?
And I know, why not be able to cause some market mayhem? Have stuff being sold disappear, or delay arrival of goods purchased.
I mean, I'm such an Uber PvPer, and it's my ISK, why the hell shouldn't I be able to create as much distruption as possible, if they won't come and fight?
This is a fighter for the Crazy 88's. It is protecting the assets of the OXIDE Alliance and may attack anyone it perceives as a threat. Threat level: About 60 words per minute |
Maximus Epeenus
Caldari Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:27:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Gno Chalynn When a corporation\alliance declares war on another corporation\alliance, there should be a way to decline the war. Fighting can still take place in 0.0 with no interference, but the controled empire space should be allowed to remain safe.
BooHoo. I'm sorry, there should be no way for a corp to decline a war, ever. It doesn't make sense.
Also it would activley detract from the game.
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Major Shake
Gallente Lunar-Base
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:12:00 -
[57]
It is your own fault for gimping your corp to have only industrialists Never again can you whine about not training for combat
You left yourself a huge vulnerability and now you shall pay for it don't cry to ccp to protect you
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ViolenTUK
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Posted - 2007.02.18 01:46:00 -
[58]
I dont know the genevoa convention very well but i am fairly certain that a country can decline a war and if this war isnt ruled as invalid then the other members may step in. For example if a pirate corp declared war against a mining corp without justification concord could be called in to fight the pirate corporation. This in principle would be the same as nato stepping in against an unfair aggressor. www.eve-players.com |
Gno Chalynn
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:36:00 -
[59]
to the poster who said I made my character only a miner, It would be nice if all you pvp players had to build your own ships, mine your own minerals and not rely on the market for others to do this for you. You like to shoot miners and builders, and then go to the stations and buy their ammo and ships. It would be nice if eve had an Industrial revolution and the market crashed for a few months. We would see how you pvp'rs would cope, without us poor miners to make stuff for you.
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Ciara Daag
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Posted - 2007.02.25 07:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Gno Chalynn to the poster who said I made my character only a miner, It would be nice if all you pvp players had to build your own ships, mine your own minerals and not rely on the market for others to do this for you. You like to shoot miners and builders, and then go to the stations and buy their ammo and ships. It would be nice if eve had an Industrial revolution and the market crashed for a few months. We would see how you pvp'rs would cope, without us poor miners to make stuff for you.
Our corp has a very strong industrial branch,we would do just fine =)
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