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Gno Chalynn
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Posted - 2007.01.31 16:41:00 -
[1]
When a corporation\alliance declares war on another corporation\alliance, there should be a way to decline the war. Fighting can still take place in 0.0 with no interference, but the controled empire space should be allowed to remain safe.
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Kharakan
Amarr Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.01.31 17:08:00 -
[2]
Just... no.
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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William Hamilton
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Posted - 2007.01.31 17:36:00 -
[3]
Edited by: William Hamilton on 31/01/2007 17:32:53 WWII
Germany: We declare war on you, Poland! Poland: No. Germany: Oh... *cries*.
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Tellenta
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Posted - 2007.01.31 19:53:00 -
[4]
Why didnt people think of this sooner. This would save many lives in RL as well as in game. I endorse 100%
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Gno Chalynn
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Posted - 2007.01.31 21:37:00 -
[5]
Basically war dec'ing allows the enjoyment of the game by the war dec'ing group to override the enjoyment of the group being war dec'd. I think the PVP groups should war dec each other, but then it is no fun being a bully and going up against a worthy opponent on equal grounds.
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Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.01.31 21:42:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Gno Chalynn Basically war dec'ing allows the enjoyment of the game by the war dec'ing group to override the enjoyment of the group being war dec'd. I think the PVP groups should war dec each other, but then it is no fun being a bully and going up against a worthy opponent on equal grounds.
then go play WoW silly
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.31 23:46:00 -
[7]
War deccing has noting to do with effectively doing a war, but has a lot to do with allowing the war in a third party territory.
Even without a war dec corp A and corp B can fight in low sec or 0.0, not in high sec, as CONCORD will show.
The war dec are starge as they allow corp A and B to fight in Empire territory without problem.
In the above example it is like a German seeing a Polish in Argentina in 1939 and shooting him, and then saying to the police: "We are at war, it is allowed."
In EVE game mechanics allow that, and changing them now will be stupid, but it is still strange.
A system where CONCORD is less omiscent, so that there are systems to make a covert war in empire, could have been a better solutin, but we have the current system, and I dubt it will change.
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Jasmine Dupre
ShaK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.01.31 23:54:00 -
[8]
I have to say no to this in general as it would imbalance the game, however i do believe that large corps even alliances should not be able to war dec a corp that has less than half of the members of the war dec'ing corp/alliance.
Why? Well to many corps War dec small industrial corps in empire so they can simply camp them out of exsistance.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Veto. Academy Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.01 01:14:00 -
[9]
While we're at it, we should implement spacedragons, lightsabers..oh and a level system! Make EVE grindable..wouldn't that be awesome?..oh oh oh and lets not forget, concentual (sp?) pvp so that everytime a pirate comes into to scram and ransom you...you get a box saying "This person is trying to engage in hostile scram->shoot->ransom>kthxbai with you. Do you accept?" and if you say no, the pirate has to putter off again, otherwise he gets concordokken...it's only fair!
...now pardon me while I go throw myself out the window - New sig in the workings -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right - ....*steals a cookie from the ISD cookie yarr* >_> |
Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.01 01:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cadela Fria While we're at it, we should implement spacedragons, lightsabers..oh and a level system! Make EVE grindable..wouldn't that be awesome?..oh oh oh and lets not forget, concentual (sp?) pvp so that everytime a pirate comes into to scram and ransom you...you get a box saying "This person is trying to engage in hostile scram->shoot->ransom>kthxbai with you. Do you accept?" and if you say no, the pirate has to putter off again, otherwise he gets concordokken...it's only fair!
signed
Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!
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Lazarann
Caldari Ideal Machine THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2007.02.01 06:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tellenta Why didnt people think of this sooner. This would save many lives in RL as well as in game. I endorse 100%
People kill themselves over war-dec's
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Disposeble Alt
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.01 15:22:00 -
[12]
Hmm
Maybe if: This option has to be used during the 24 hour wait. It would cost something like 20 times as expensive as the war dec was in the first place (this money would be tranferred to the declaring corp of course). The button would have to be aptly named, 'surrender' sounds fitting to me The declaring party would not be allowed to redeclare within the period the war would normaly have lasted (of course they can all go to an alt corp and redeclare immediately )
Posts by alts hide political affiliation and history. No political statement by any alt should be taken seriously. |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.02.01 15:47:00 -
[13]
I don't know much about war decs, but can't you already negociate (a thing about diplomacy and RP) a tribute to stop a war?
Maybe you just need a system where war can be instantly stopped with both parties acknowledging the war stop. (maybe it is alredy in place, I've not been CEO or anything in any corp)
Adding a "surrender and pay tribute" would be like automated ransom... I prefer diplomacy. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Flying Vexor and Ishkur, Myrmidon was too slow, got ganked by 3 BC and a Megathron... |
Randolf Sightblinder
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Posted - 2007.02.01 19:44:00 -
[14]
Personally I've felt that if the decced corp didn't want to fight they should be able to pay concord 1.5 the cost of the wardec to null it. But to make this fair then the original corp can pay 1.5 times again to have the fight. This continues until one corp won't up the ante. Its stupid that only one side can bribe concord.
If wardecces cost 100 isk. A corp pays 100 isk to fight. B corp pays 150 to refuse. A corp now has to pay an additonal 225 to fight. B corp would have to pay 337.5 to stop the fight.
This continues until one corp refuses to up the ante. If it would be corp B then A has to wait a week before deccing again. If it is A corp the war starts, the bidding starts again at the renewal time.
Randolf
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LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2007.02.01 20:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Randolf Sightblinder Personally I've felt that if the decced corp didn't want to fight they should be able to pay concord 1.5 the cost of the wardec to null it. But to make this fair then the original corp can pay 1.5 times again to have the fight. This continues until one corp won't up the ante. Its stupid that only one side can bribe concord.
If wardecces cost 100 isk. A corp pays 100 isk to fight. B corp pays 150 to refuse. A corp now has to pay an additonal 225 to fight. B corp would have to pay 337.5 to stop the fight.
This continues until one corp refuses to up the ante. If it would be corp B then A has to wait a week before deccing again. If it is A corp the war starts, the bidding starts again at the renewal time.
Randolf
That's absolutely idiotic. I'm sorry, it is.
Player B SCAMS Player A's corp Player B moves to B corp A wardecs B B declines by paying 1.5 (BFD) Now A pays MORE? Yaaaa... right. --Wardecs shouldn't be a contest of who will pay the most. It's not a friggen bidding war. Oh, and if anything, the deccers should be paid NOT concord.
Remember, people USUALLY wardec for a reason. If you don't want to get decced, either stop trash talkin' in local or stop being someone's competition. Just glide through Eve quietly, if you don't rock the boat, no one's going to try and push you overboard.
What is wrong with the current system is not the wardec, it's all your candy ass carebears with no balls. So what if a 40 man corp decs your 10 man corp! Cowboy up and fight back. God forbid, you might actually have fun!
Believe it or not, yes War can be fun, even if you are the dec-ee.
~~~~~~~~~ Hey Gai. Bak Off Coz Ai Bang Yu Hawd. K Gai? |
ghosttr
Amarr The Department of Resource Control
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Posted - 2007.02.02 00:47:00 -
[16]
I have a few problems with wardeccing that need a fix.
If fighting in empire people should not be able to hide in stations, if they come out to find their enemy right outside of the station they shouldnt be able to re-doc and hide. There shoulb be a delay time after undocking that gives them a chance to be locked on to. And there shouls be an aggro timer that does not allow a carp at war to dock when being fired on. (same policy as the logoffski one)
Once an allaince starts a war the member corps should be stuck in it. They shoulnt be able to get out of war by leaving thier allaince. And if they do there should be a penalty of not being able to rejoin until the war is over, or for at least an extended period of time (a week or so). SUPPORT T2 FIX! |
ViolenTUK
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Posted - 2007.02.02 00:57:00 -
[17]
The whole idea of two corporations being able to go to war in a oliced state is just stupid. This wouldnt happen. There should be a way of declining this so called war scenario.
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Kharriga
Caldari Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.02 01:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cadela Fria While we're at it, we should implement spacedragons, lightsabers..oh and a level system! Make EVE grindable..wouldn't that be awesome?..oh oh oh and lets not forget, concentual (sp?) pvp so that everytime a pirate comes into to scram and ransom you...you get a box saying "This person is trying to engage in hostile scram->shoot->ransom>kthxbai with you. Do you accept?" and if you say no, the pirate has to putter off again, otherwise he gets concordokken...it's only fair!
...now pardon me while I go throw myself out the window
wish we could move this thread to crime and punishment forums :(
god that would be awesome
-
"I'm scissors. Paper is fine. Nerf rock!"
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Gno Chalynn
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Posted - 2007.02.02 03:23:00 -
[19]
ok, I guess some of the PVP players do not understand my point to this topic. War dec'ing is forcing players to stop what they are doing and go fight a war that has no grounds anyway. I choose to play eve my way and just because some pvp corp wants to go shooting, they pull my corp in as targets. War dec's need to have reasons. I do not mind pvp corps fighting other pvp corps, it would be as equal of a match as possible. That is fine, and I hope you guys have fun, that is how you enjoy eve. That is not how I enjoy eve.
Another point is paying off the police to allow unilateral declaration of war. What does that say for the Ethics of EVE? And if you get on Ethics, what do you call someone who shoots a non-combatant? Most of us call them a ball-less ganker. What skill do you need in your raven to shoot a covetor? Shooting non-combatants should carry massive penalties.
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Tellenta
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Posted - 2007.02.02 03:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lazarann
Originally by: Tellenta Why didnt people think of this sooner. This would save many lives in RL as well as in game. I endorse 100%
People kill themselves over war-dec's
I know i have!
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Elain Reverse
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Posted - 2007.02.02 05:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ghosttr I have a few problems with wardeccing that need a fix.
If fighting in empire people should not be able to hide in stations, if they come out to find their enemy right outside of the station they shouldnt be able to re-doc and hide. There shoulb be a delay time after undocking that gives them a chance to be locked on to. And there shouls be an aggro timer that does not allow a carp at war to dock when being fired on. (same policy as the logoffski one)
Once an allaince starts a war the member corps should be stuck in it. They shoulnt be able to get out of war by leaving thier allaince. And if they do there should be a penalty of not being able to rejoin until the war is over, or for at least an extended period of time (a week or so).
And allow pirates corps to easily station camp merchant corps, thx, but no, thx bye.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.02 09:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ghosttr I have a few problems with wardeccing that need a fix.
If fighting in empire people should not be able to hide in stations, if they come out to find their enemy right outside of the station they shouldnt be able to re-doc and hide. There shoulb be a delay time after undocking that gives them a chance to be locked on to. And there shouls be an aggro timer that does not allow a carp at war to dock when being fired on. (same policy as the logoffski one)
Once an allaince starts a war the member corps should be stuck in it. They shoulnt be able to get out of war by leaving thier allaince. And if they do there should be a penalty of not being able to rejoin until the war is over, or for at least an extended period of time (a week or so).
That would be fair, if shooting outside the station (by either corp) was not allowed either.
To the OP, if i want to hit you in the face, i don't ask you permission. I just do it. Same with war dec's. Its corp A declaring a war on B.. declaring, not asking.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.02.02 10:22:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Eleana Tomelac on 02/02/2007 10:18:58
Originally by: ghosttr
If fighting in empire people should not be able to hide in stations, if they come out to find their enemy right outside of the station they shouldnt be able to re-doc and hide. There shoulb be a delay time after undocking that gives them a chance to be locked on to. And there shouls be an aggro timer that does not allow a carp at war to dock when being fired on. (same policy as the logoffski one)
So, an industrial gets out the station, not being able to see who's outsite (no windows in stations?), there are some ships waiting for him, they shoot it, and because they shoot it, it can't dock? There is actually a timer before redocking, the industrial doesn't need this limitation to be dead. If the guy exiting the station opens fire, there's a longer timer before he can dock (after the last time he fired), so if it gets to a real fight (not just ganking an industrial or a lonely ship, the thing you search for in pvp isn't challenge?), he won't be able to dock (or jump at a gate).
Originally by: ghosttr
Once an allaince starts a war the member corps should be stuck in it. They shoulnt be able to get out of war by leaving thier allaince. And if they do there should be a penalty of not being able to rejoin until the war is over, or for at least an extended period of time (a week or so).
War dec the corp... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Flying Vexor and Ishkur, Myrmidon was too slow, got ganked by 3 BC and a Megathron... |
Gno Chalynn
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Posted - 2007.02.04 05:21:00 -
[24]
well since shooting a non-combatant is basically a cowards way to go to war, I don't think this will change. You think it is ok to war dec a corp that has industrials and miners and that it is fair to use a raven to fight a badger. If they did war decs properly, there would be a reason needed to go to war, not just some whanker group wanting to play shootem up. Wars should never be allowed in secure space, no paying off the cops.
It would be better if CCP made war dec groups have a valid reason to war dec, give them 24 hours to get ready and then transfer all members of each corp to a locked off set of 3 systems with no way back to empire, and fight it out until 1 corp is dead, no recloning and rejoining the fight, and the hostile/offending corp can not leave the combat zone until the war is over. They just have to sit, watch and wait it out.
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Martosh Toma
Gallente Fraction Investment
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Posted - 2007.02.04 16:20:00 -
[25]
You seem to forget that "because I can" and "Because I want to" are also valid reasons.
What would you accept as valid reasons? "Because they insulted me" "Because they undercut my orders" "Because our client payed us to" "Because I profit from it"
Think I could come up with a few more, should I spend time on it.
Any form of referee or mediation or whatever to check if a wardec is "accepteble" by some standard would at least lead to: - favoritism (or accusations off) - an Incredible workload (and similarly required huge increase in monthly fees in real live money) - Easy circumvention in most circumstances (Who wants to fight can always find or create a reason)
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Crewman Jenkins
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Posted - 2007.02.05 07:44:00 -
[26]
I think the 2 million cost to declare a war is antiquated. 2 mil used to be something a long time ago. They should up the price of war decs and leave the rules the same.
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2007.02.05 16:15:00 -
[27]
only one side needs to fight for it to be a war, or a slaughter is closer to the right word. maybe a form of a ingame cease fire where the weaker corp pays the larger corp off may be ok and the warinf corp has to say ok to the deal otherwise... set on a week on skill and log off or go into planning or move to a quiet system. war cost 50mil a week if i am right
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Crellion
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.02.05 17:53:00 -
[28]
It allready exists ingame. All noob ... err "starter" corps have wars on autoreject. Enter their embrace and find eternal peace.
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.02.06 10:49:00 -
[29]
corp on corp should be starting price of 20m ISK per week alliances on corp and alliances should start at 200m a week
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A Brr
Gallente Tech-5-Inc. Empire Trader Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.06 11:52:00 -
[30]
Originally by: hotgirl933 corp on corp should be starting price of 20m ISK per week alliances on corp and alliances should start at 200m a week
I think your numbers are way to low. More realistic values are 1b for corp wars and 10b for alliance wars. 200m is only the value of 2 BS, aliances are building titans with overall costs of 100b+. So 10b per week should help aliances consider what they are doing ;) --- The greatest crap CCP designed into EVE: Next generation manufacturing. |
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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.06 17:03:00 -
[31]
Originally by: A Brr
Originally by: hotgirl933 corp on corp should be starting price of 20m ISK per week alliances on corp and alliances should start at 200m a week
I think your numbers are way to low. More realistic values are 1b for corp wars and 10b for alliance wars. 200m is only the value of 2 BS, aliances are building titans with overall costs of 100b+. So 10b per week should help aliances consider what they are doing ;)
...says the guy in "Empire Trader Alliance".
ffs, join a noobcorp if you want to be immune to wars. I promise, when you join SWA, the game doesn't magically revoke your TS/Vent access; you can still coordinate with your friends. If you want the conveniences that an in-game, formal corporation offers, accept that you will pay for them.
Now, all that said, corporation-to-corporation wardecs are a bit cheap atm.
--P
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ViolenTUK
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Posted - 2007.02.06 17:39:00 -
[32]
There should be a high price for declaring a war as there is in real life and it should be very easy to stop a war. www.eve-players.com |
Rose Nuke
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Posted - 2007.02.06 17:46:00 -
[33]
but its stupid when corps war dec manufacturing corps just for isk its pointless and is unfair.
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ChanibintLiet
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Posted - 2007.02.06 23:20:00 -
[34]
As it is I think the system makes it too easy for anyone to war dec anyone else just because they feel like it. No reasons need to be given. nothing. just pay the fee and off you go. that leaves groups like Privateers alliance free to war dec half of EVE. Rumor has it that they have something like 60 wars going on at any given time. Do they have a reason to war dec that many groups? No. Most of their corps are known pirate corps. these war decs just let give them and others freedom to abuse the system and cause problems. The way I see it the system is ripe for change. what those changes should be is up for debate. maybe a limit to the number of wars you may partisapate in should be put into effect. maybe make it more costly to declare war. maybe wars should shoud be limited on a reagonal basis since most wars are about taratory in some way or another. you want a map wide war, it's gonna cost an arm and a leg. maybe this could also include the decing parties standings with that regions controling faction. If you have good standings, the cost of war is less or the rules of engagement are less. if you have bad standings the cost is much higher and you'd be limited to where you could fight. say not around stations or gates since they don't wat your war desturbing others. maybe the cost of each war you declair should go up with each party you declare war on. so one war would be base price. second war base price + some figure based on reagonal standings, leadership skills, what ever. say base X 1.5 for second war. third war, base (base + second war) x 2 or something to that effect. you get the idea. The more you wanna fight, the more you stand to gain from the stuff you recover from the wrecks and more it should cost to wage the war. these are just a few ideas. I'm sure other have their own ideas on this just as I'm sure the pirates want to leave things just the way they are or make it even easier to get their kicks at other people expence.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.08 07:45:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Rose Nuke but its stupid when corps war dec manufacturing corps just for isk its pointless and is unfair.
Its war.
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Cythe Oman
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Posted - 2007.02.09 01:58:00 -
[36]
On a couple ocasions my corp or alience has had a war declared upon them for reasons of griefing and extortion. A PVP fitted group sends in a spy to locate corps home port and simply moves their assets into neighboring systems to destroy and pod ships untill a ransom is paied or jsut for grief's sake.
In the past i have found the best and only weapon aginst these people is a war of attrition. "Victory thru boredome" refuse to speek, pay, or undock, untill the rival corp removes the war. all you have to do is train some long skills and log off for a week the enemy eventualy gets tired of camping people who never come out. You can uasualy find the spy at this point too by back tracking and investigating the people who joined recently.
But yes i would like to see a decline option to war in high sec space.
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BigWhale
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.09 06:49:00 -
[37]
Edited by: BigWhale on 09/02/2007 06:46:08 If I don't want a war with you, then leave me alone in high-sec empire or face concord's wrath upon you.
You, 'the germany' can invade me 'the poland' on my grounds (0.0), but you just can't kill my people in 'the switzerland' (Empire) without their police to come after you.
This is not so difficult to understand. And it is very logical.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.02.09 10:26:00 -
[38]
People seem to forget. One of the key features of eve is player to player interaction. This includes but is not limited to ship to ship combat.
This is not a solo trading or empire building game. There are plenty of those availeble already.
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Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.09 10:31:00 -
[39]
Originally by: BigWhale Edited by: BigWhale on 09/02/2007 06:46:08 If I don't want a war with you, then leave me alone in high-sec empire or face concord's wrath upon you.
You, 'the germany' can invade me 'the poland' on my grounds (0.0), but you just can't kill my people in 'the switzerland' (Empire) without their police to come after you.
This is not so difficult to understand. And it is very logical.
Ok to clear things up I have never been part of any corp that war decs Empire Indy corps BUT I was once in an Indy corp that got decced (and we faught back lost many ships but after we inflicted enough losses they dropped the dec).
Now to your point, it is your tough luck if someone wardecs you deal with it! Either jump into cruisers and frigs and show them that carebears also have claws or hire mercs. I think hell would freeze over before your idea/thaught became a reality. Not to mention that it would turn EVE-O into carebear central.
Originally by: Blind Man okies so liek when u warp in on them u shod target them... and stuff k.then u FIRE ZE MISSILES
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BigWhale
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.09 11:32:00 -
[40]
Being able to decline 'declared' war would not remove the PVP from EVE. It would just move more of it to 0.0... Where I think it should happen.
Pure industrial/trade corp can hardly stand a chance to a decent organised pvp corp. Want to get rid of them? Put them out of bussiness! Strip mine their fields, keep undercutting their prices on the market.
I just think that fighting should be done in 0.0 and low-sec empire.
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BigWhale
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.09 11:37:00 -
[41]
Probably declining is not an option, but preventing fights in high-sec empire would do the trick. If there is a corp living in empire, so be it.
Hell, the more I think about this, the more I have no idea what would be a good solution. I can understand declaring a war, no problem with that. But there are those that abuse this and there are those that really are not able to fight back.
So, now they shouldn't be playing the game?
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Maximillian Power
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Posted - 2007.02.09 12:29:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Maximillian Power on 09/02/2007 12:26:20 I think that no matter what solution is implemented to this there is always going to be some portion of the Eve playing population who thinks that it is not the way they want it to be. This is cool - everyone entitled to their own opinion and all that.
Personally - I think the thing about Eve is that it is meant to be ruthless and cutthroat. Whether your means of taking out your competitor is via ships which kill, or ships which mine - or if you just want to have a price war on the market place.
What declared wars do, much more than take ISK off of the declarer, is force that the corporation which wants to do the killing must notify the competitor that they are going to do this to them. This, IMO, is the main effect. This allows the target in high sec areas to prepare their counter operations in advance and take suitable actions.
I think that it is a good idea to increase the cost to the corp doing the war declaration as 2m is generateable from 30 minutes easy missioning.
Perhaps a pricing structure based on the difference between the number of players in both corps. This means that unfair, pure gank the target wars, are more expensive than others. Ok - it doesn't get them all, but it gets a lot of them.
Basically I can see all points of view - but at the end of the day the game must stay true to its own vision, and if that makes you not want to play the game then so be it. Its a pity and I hope those people can find a game which DOES do what they want it to do. I think that a lot of people want the function though. I think that with some small tweakings it could be better - but there are others who would disagree. meh...
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Snidley wiplash
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Posted - 2007.02.09 13:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Maximillian Power Edited by: Maximillian Power on 09/02/2007 12:26:20 I think that no matter what solution is implemented to this there is always going to be some portion of the Eve playing population who thinks that it is not the way they want it to be. This is cool - everyone entitled to their own opinion and all that.
Personally - I think the thing about Eve is that it is meant to be ruthless and cutthroat. Whether your means of taking out your competitor is via ships which kill, or ships which mine - or if you just want to have a price war on the market place.
What declared wars do, much more than take ISK off of the declarer, is force that the corporation which wants to do the killing must notify the competitor that they are going to do this to them. This, IMO, is the main effect. This allows the target in high sec areas to prepare their counter operations in advance and take suitable actions.
I think that it is a good idea to increase the cost to the corp doing the war declaration as 2m is generateable from 30 minutes easy missioning.
Perhaps a pricing structure based on the difference between the number of players in both corps. This means that unfair, pure gank the target wars, are more expensive than others. Ok - it doesn't get them all, but it gets a lot of them.
Basically I can see all points of view - but at the end of the day the game must stay true to its own vision, and if that makes you not want to play the game then so be it. Its a pity and I hope those people can find a game which DOES do what they want it to do. I think that a lot of people want the function though. I think that with some small tweakings it could be better - but there are others who would disagree. meh...
here here i love max's idea after reading the whole thing i have to agree.
i understand the mining corps complaints becuse im part miner and it ****es me off to no end when im just siting in a belt minding my own businies and a war target pop on top of me. on the other had it was my fault for not keeping an eye on local.
now to my carebare side
but with maxe's idea of having to pay more do decc a minieng corp or a small corp you should have to pay more. its one thing to want to fight another corp over a loss of goods or smak talk but its another to just slauter some one just becuse you can.
and for the finalie
all you pirates out there that are soo good with 10 mill SP stop crying if your the pirates you think you are you will over come it. if your not that pirate you thoght you were your just a carebare incogneto.
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Sarf
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Posted - 2007.02.10 21:07:00 -
[44]
I would like to see it that a war decked corp can Protest to concord.
It costs Corp A Y isk a week to run a way. If the attacked corp declines then the attacker pays 10x Y isk a week.
Now the stick part, Corp A can attack Corp B freely, but corp B can't attack Corp A, they can defend them selves if attacked, but if they attack then concord will kill Corp B's ship.
So basically if Corp A really wants to kill corp B they can pay the higher cost, if not they cancel the war. This will put Corp B at a disavantage in that they can't attack a member of Corp A but can defend them selves, Corp A has protection because if corp B has overwhelming numbers then they don't attack and no one can kill anyone. Corp A if they want to pay the extra isk then can hunt to there hearts content. and Corp B can still defend themselves.
This would make empire wars a little less likely but still allow a grudge to be settled.
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tarballicus
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Posted - 2007.02.11 03:10:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Blind Man
Originally by: Gno Chalynn Basically war dec'ing allows the enjoyment of the game by the war dec'ing group to override the enjoyment of the group being war dec'd. I think the PVP groups should war dec each other, but then it is no fun being a bully and going up against a worthy opponent on equal grounds.
then go play WoW silly
Whatever, we all pay our 15.00 per month, we have as much right to desire/request a style of play we like as you PvPers have to yours.
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2007.02.11 03:14:00 -
[46]
Originally by: tarballicus
Originally by: Blind Man
Originally by: Gno Chalynn Basically war dec'ing allows the enjoyment of the game by the war dec'ing group to override the enjoyment of the group being war dec'd. I think the PVP groups should war dec each other, but then it is no fun being a bully and going up against a worthy opponent on equal grounds.
then go play WoW silly
Whatever, we all pay our 15.00 per month, we have as much right to desire/request a style of play we like as you PvPers have to yours.
your almost right
pvpers are trying to preserve this PVP game
over zealous carebears want to change it so there are safe happy areas where no one dies but NPCs.
Thats not EvE. Thats not the game that has been so successful for 3 years. You want to make EvE somethinng its not. So no, you dont have as much of a right, this isn't a carebear game.
Just cause someone shells out $15 for subscription doesn't mean the game needs to adjust to fit their playstyle.
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tarballicus
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Posted - 2007.02.11 10:15:00 -
[47]
Originally by: HankMurphy
your almost right
pvpers are trying to preserve this PVP game
over zealous carebears want to change it so there are safe happy areas where no one dies but NPCs.
Thats not EvE. Thats not the game that has been so successful for 3 years. You want to make EvE somethinng its not. So no, you dont have as much of a right, this isn't a carebear game.
Just cause someone shells out $15 for subscription doesn't mean the game needs to adjust to fit their playstyle.
While I respect your PoV, where, in all the materials available on this site (those I inspected before subscribing), does it say that the considerations for accomodating PvP are foremost in the game?
this is what I read when I was considering the game:
Quote: The diversity and flexibility of EVE makes it difficult to categorize it by conventional standards. What it is depends on the level at which it is played.
The game is set in an unknown portion of space, spanning thousands of solar systems, many of which are settled. Players begin by creating an in-game character equipped with a basic spaceship ready to explore the world. As they get acquainted with life in EVE, players can trade goods between systems or conduct other money-making ventures such as mining asteroids, transporting goods as a courier or even cleaning up debris for recycling. Financial gains made through such activities can be used to upgrade the ship with weapons and equipment and also to develop the character by purchasing skill packs used for training him or her in various skills he will need to advance in the world of EVE.
When a player has mastered the basics of the game, aquired some money and equipment and advanced his or her character through basic skills, the possibilities become almost endless. Players who wish to explore peaceful paths may continue to upgrade their ships to bigger and better cargo vessels with high-end defenses, purchase advanced mining or research equipment and continue to develop their characters by specializing in their preferred skills. Others may elect to pursue a more dangerous path such as piracy, smuggling or bounty hunting.
So, no, nowhere in there does it say, "PvPing only." I realize that PvPers will denigrate anyone not on their "I like to kill doodz" mentality, but there are some who want to do other things. It is reasonable to block out a space for people not interested in PvP, just as 0.0 space is blocked out for the PvPers.
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Leneerra
Minmatar Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.02.11 18:22:00 -
[48]
you missed:
The basic role-playing and space simulation aspects of EVE are really just the tip of the iceberg. When players band together to form factions and alliances, the game progresses to a more grand-scale strategic level. Political intrigue, corporate espionage and the very essence of Darwinism bring dimension and depth to the game as the struggle for fame and fortune ebbs and flows with each new day in EVE.
However, the level at which each player decides to participate is a matter of personal choice. The game leaves ample room for continual progress and variety in all its solo playing aspects. For those who opt to do so, becoming the best lone-wolf pirate or bounty hunter is a never-ending task as the competitors are other human players who will employ every method at their disposal to gain an edge over the rest. Solo players are also able to hire out their services as mercenaries or hit men to other players or player-run corporations.
and for darwinism look at Darwinism
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korrey
Taurus Inc
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Posted - 2007.02.11 19:44:00 -
[49]
To the OP, you seemed to have missed the point of a war-dec totally. We dont randomly war-dec any jo collins, generally it only relates to stopping an alliances supply line that runs through empire.
It has been said before and it will be said again. EvE, as much as you hate to admit it, is a PvP game. Mining, manafacturing, construction and reselling are all added features.
Ever wondered why 9/10 ships are combat related? And for the corps that do randomly war-dec in empire, thats their issue. Its their money, their ammo and their manpower spent on killing you. Good for them, join a noob corp so they cant war-dec you if it bothers you that much.
Or better yet...move regions. Or even better yet (my personal favorite) Fight back. That generally takes Empire griefing corps by surprise.
My point? Suck it up or pack it up. Thats the way EvE is.
----------- 24.01.06 Small patch that addresses some minor balancing issues
1) All minmatar pilots have been deleted |
Sovereign533
Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.12 01:25:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Sovereign533 on 12/02/2007 01:24:09
Originally by: Gno Chalynn When a corporation\alliance declares war on another corporation\alliance, there should be a way to decline the war. Fighting can still take place in 0.0 with no interference, but the controled empire space should be allowed to remain safe.
i so totally agree... it's really annoying to have privateers all over the place... we cannot get our badger's out, our sigils are stuck in stations... and we cannot mine veld in empire anymore...
feel teh sarcasm? =p
edit : uhm, not my point to flame or smack priv, they are fun =p... but to prove the point that empire wardecs can be a slight annoyance to some 0.0 alliances/corporations. we now have to actually escort freighters in stead of letting them afk jump trough empire... so if we declined the wardec, we wouldn't have to do this, so no more freighter escorting. (or use alts, whatever hehe)
Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... Added pink because it was lacking - Petwraith
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tarballicus
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Posted - 2007.02.12 03:13:00 -
[51]
Edited by: tarballicus on 12/02/2007 03:12:16
Originally by: Leneerra you missed:
The basic role-playing and space simulation aspects of EVE are really just the tip of the iceberg. When players band together to form factions and alliances, the game progresses to a more grand-scale strategic level. Political intrigue, corporate espionage and the very essence of Darwinism bring dimension and depth to the game as the struggle for fame and fortune ebbs and flows with each new day in EVE.
However, the level at which each player decides to participate is a matter of personal choice. The game leaves ample room for continual progress and variety in all its solo playing aspects. For those who opt to do so, becoming the best lone-wolf pirate or bounty hunter is a never-ending task as the competitors are other human players who will employ every method at their disposal to gain an edge over the rest. Solo players are also able to hire out their services as mercenaries or hit men to other players or player-run corporations.
and for darwinism look at Darwinism
I am aware of what Darwinism is, I attended class when that lecture was given
Thanks for the input; your point is taken. However, the game affords many levels and styles of play, as you indicate. As such, it is reasonable to desire a slice of the galaxy to "do your thing."
Of course, the real answer to this is: if you want to play solo and do non-violent things, don't join a corp. How will people who want to explore non-violent activities together gain formal cooperation opportunities? The prevailing answer is: they can't, short of forming short-lived gangs.
What I've learned is: stick with the NPC corps if you want to do non-violent things. I've also learned that EVE is essentially lawless.
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deathforge
The Accursed
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Posted - 2007.02.12 14:21:00 -
[52]
Edited by: deathforge on 12/02/2007 14:18:11
Originally by: Rose Nuke but its stupid when corps war dec manufacturing corps just for isk its pointless and is unfair.
It's not pointless, you even managed to contradict yourself in one brilliant, whiney sentence. ISK = the point. If it's unfair to you, that's no one's fault but your own, suck it up and try to quit, well, sucking.
And by the way, I rule you.
----------------------
Low skillpoint Rifter piracy video |
Slaptastic
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Posted - 2007.02.12 18:45:00 -
[53]
"But its stupid when corps war dec manufacturing corps just for isk its pointless and is unfair."
Its pretty unfair when someone crashes a plain into the World Trade center. Don't you think that was as 'unfair' as things come?
EvE may be a game but the aspects of war stay the same. War tends to be unfair.
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Mitchman
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2007.02.12 18:49:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Gno Chalynn When a corporation\alliance declares war on another corporation\alliance, there should be a way to decline the war. Fighting can still take place in 0.0 with no interference, but the controled empire space should be allowed to remain safe.
No. EVE is not WoW.
New video: All Aboard The Pain Train
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Karanth
Gallente Crazy 88's O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.02.17 04:30:00 -
[55]
Well, here's a thought: If I can pay CONCORD to ignore my actions, why can't I pay CONCORD to cause other mayhem? I should be able to pay them to cause my targets issues, like increasing time for jumping through gates, and refusing docking rights, among other things.
And why stop there? Why can't I go up to a representative of, for example, Caldari Steel, or the Federation Navy, and get the same privileges? It's my ISK, so why can't I cause my foes as much problems as possible?
Hey, let's keep going, this is too fun! Why can't I pay the owners of a station to tell me what ships my enemy has in his hanger, or in the corp hangers? Or maybe throw some ISK out there, and get the station keeper to throw my foe who won't sack up into cold space?
Ooh ooh, I know! Why not make it so that I can get saboteurs to damage my foes ships while they are docked? Have their drones and ammo go "missing", or maybe put modules offline?
And I know, why not be able to cause some market mayhem? Have stuff being sold disappear, or delay arrival of goods purchased.
I mean, I'm such an Uber PvPer, and it's my ISK, why the hell shouldn't I be able to create as much distruption as possible, if they won't come and fight?
This is a fighter for the Crazy 88's. It is protecting the assets of the OXIDE Alliance and may attack anyone it perceives as a threat. Threat level: About 60 words per minute |
Maximus Epeenus
Caldari Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:27:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Gno Chalynn When a corporation\alliance declares war on another corporation\alliance, there should be a way to decline the war. Fighting can still take place in 0.0 with no interference, but the controled empire space should be allowed to remain safe.
BooHoo. I'm sorry, there should be no way for a corp to decline a war, ever. It doesn't make sense.
Also it would activley detract from the game.
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Major Shake
Gallente Lunar-Base
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:12:00 -
[57]
It is your own fault for gimping your corp to have only industrialists Never again can you whine about not training for combat
You left yourself a huge vulnerability and now you shall pay for it don't cry to ccp to protect you
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ViolenTUK
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Posted - 2007.02.18 01:46:00 -
[58]
I dont know the genevoa convention very well but i am fairly certain that a country can decline a war and if this war isnt ruled as invalid then the other members may step in. For example if a pirate corp declared war against a mining corp without justification concord could be called in to fight the pirate corporation. This in principle would be the same as nato stepping in against an unfair aggressor. www.eve-players.com |
Gno Chalynn
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:36:00 -
[59]
to the poster who said I made my character only a miner, It would be nice if all you pvp players had to build your own ships, mine your own minerals and not rely on the market for others to do this for you. You like to shoot miners and builders, and then go to the stations and buy their ammo and ships. It would be nice if eve had an Industrial revolution and the market crashed for a few months. We would see how you pvp'rs would cope, without us poor miners to make stuff for you.
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Ciara Daag
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Posted - 2007.02.25 07:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Gno Chalynn to the poster who said I made my character only a miner, It would be nice if all you pvp players had to build your own ships, mine your own minerals and not rely on the market for others to do this for you. You like to shoot miners and builders, and then go to the stations and buy their ammo and ships. It would be nice if eve had an Industrial revolution and the market crashed for a few months. We would see how you pvp'rs would cope, without us poor miners to make stuff for you.
Our corp has a very strong industrial branch,we would do just fine =)
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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.02.26 00:25:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Gno Chalynn to the poster who said I made my character only a miner, It would be nice if all you pvp players had to build your own ships, mine your own minerals and not rely on the market for others to do this for you. You like to shoot miners and builders, and then go to the stations and buy their ammo and ships. It would be nice if eve had an Industrial revolution and the market crashed for a few months. We would see how you pvp'rs would cope, without us poor miners to make stuff for you.
Then lasers would come in handy again, no ammo ftw.
But seriously, we would just use the industrialists we have in our alliances. wink wink get a corp with some fighters to protect you.
---------------- Freedom Of Speech Band of Brothers T-shirt |
Hellaciouss
Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.26 08:41:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Cadela Fria oh and a level system! Make EVE grindable..
EvE is one...big...grind..(isk)
Tonight's the night the world begins again... |
Jin Za
Pheonix Arisen
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Posted - 2007.02.26 14:38:00 -
[63]
im sure privateers would find this idea interesting
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Fafnir Drake
Boob Heads
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Posted - 2007.02.26 15:30:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Fafnir Drake on 26/02/2007 15:27:19 I'd like 1.0 to be safe from war. Kinda make it a neutral area. If not all 1.0, then certain specially marked ones. The more ya limit the number of war free systems, the better. A person can't do much if they sat in some special 1.0 system in the middle of empire. They'd have to move around a bit to do stuff. In real war, there are neutral parties. A further option is you can attack people in these neutral spots, but it does cost money to violate the said neutrality. This would make it a judgment call. Is it worth popping that guy considering the fine? Say, this guy is in a hauler, it would cost 3x to pop him here, but he has 7x worth of cargo (or has been a supreme pain in the arse and ya are willing to cough up). Or maybe he is in a hauler with crap, and he isn't really a key figure in the war, so it is not worth the fine.
Some people are like slinkies. Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs. |
ViolenTUK
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Posted - 2007.02.26 17:11:00 -
[65]
1.0 should be safe. The whole point of concord is to step in from unwarented violence. Declaring war has never circumvented police states from steping in to arbitrate in real world history so there is no reason from the historical context why concord shouldnt step in if waring parties starting fighting in 1.0 space. www.eve-players.com |
Atrial Quartz
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.26 18:57:00 -
[66]
Heres an idea for the war. have an option to pay the faction whose system your in for their navy's support. Not as uber as concord but something to give the players another option
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Eye of God X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.02.26 23:50:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Gno Chalynn to the poster who said I made my character only a miner, It would be nice if all you pvp players had to build your own ships, mine your own minerals and not rely on the market for others to do this for you. You like to shoot miners and builders, and then go to the stations and buy their ammo and ships. It would be nice if eve had an Industrial revolution and the market crashed for a few months. We would see how you pvp'rs would cope, without us poor miners to make stuff for you.
Well no see this is the beautiful part...you (poor miners as you called yourself), need us, even more then we need you.
You need someone to buy the stuff you build (thats us! The PvP'ers) and you need someone to lose the stuff you sold so they can come around and buy even more stuff! (thats us again! ^_^)
And I'm sorry if you don't like it if you get shot now and then, but thats EVE, pure and simple. However, your comment going "It would be nice if all you pvp players had to build your own ships, mine your own minerals" - Well, see thats the beauty of this whole thing..we're never going to have that problem! Because if YOU don't want our money for the things you build, well, someone ELSE out there does, and there always will be!
You would suffer just as much as we would, should there be an industrial "revolution" and market crashes. Plus, most people have "backup characters" to fill the industrial role, should it become a bleeding necessity, so probably the only ones who would suffer truly, would be you - the poor miners.
To be honest, it's your fault for selling ships, ammo and what not to us pvp'ers. If you truly don't want us to have these things (which we will acquire anyway), then you'd produce industrial components and industrial ships only.
If you sell a warship of some kind or another, I'm sorry bub, but that ship aint gonna be used to fly around in happy circles around a planet, singing frilly songs about how jolly life is while painting keke smileys with small secure cans. And just cause you sell the ship, doesn't mean anyone is going to check who they bought the ship from and think "Oh, I better not shoot this guy then", no I'm sorry..doesn't happen. - New sig in the workings -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right - ....*steals a cookie from the ISD cookie yarr* >_> |
Sarf
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Posted - 2007.03.03 05:53:00 -
[68]
i think concord should get a little corrupt.
Corp A wars Corp B
Corp B Pays concord 10m to decline this war. Corp A pays Concord 11m to instate the war. Corp B pays concord 25m to decline the war.
...
bidding goes on until one side doesn't bribe enough and there you go. each bid grants a 24 hour window to counter bid.
and CCP gets a isk sink to boot.
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Draco Ronan
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Posted - 2007.03.03 09:20:00 -
[69]
Make 1.0 100% safe. Also make war decc more expensive. Both aren't hard, and quite logical.
0.5-0.9 wars can still happen, 0.0-0.4 all the usual pvp stuff.
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Tiny Tom
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Posted - 2007.03.16 02:14:00 -
[70]
OK, I'm late, but I'll throw in my two cents, anyway.
Having the ability to reject a war declaration is silly. However, that empires and Concord would ignore a battle in their own space just because there is a war declaration is also silly. Suggesting that Concord and the empires should ignore acts of violence in their space is like saying the game should force corps or factions to ignore violence between third parties within their sovereignties.
I've not been in a war, so I can't say precisely how it works, but I would expect Concord to ignore acts of violence outside of high sec provided there was a war declaration. The Empires should probably do the same until CCP gets them warring, too. In short, don't allow anyone to turn down a war dec, but enforce the peace in high sec.
Once the empires start warring, I can imagine some interesting variations--especially with regard with corps or factions declaring allegiances. However, I would still expect neutral corps and alliances, as well as those aligned with an empire, to be defended within that empire's space.
However, CCP could also designate some space mid-sec. In these areas, the bordering/nominally-controlling empire could ignore the plight of the neutral, but come out to help allies.
All this said, I think that the idea of a secure area is good for the game. Most companies consider themselves well-served by offering a PVP element in their game, and I think EVE benefits from having non-PVP elements. Frankly, I prefer to do my PVP in an FPS game where it boils down to skill and tactics rather than the grind. I could see some of the PVP in EVE being fun (even with uneven fights), but I can also see it degenerating into griefing--intentionally or unintentionally. The later is important--from the perspective of the player, it doesn't matter if the uber skill player who just performed the ganking did it to ruin the game or did it because they're too cowardly to find a real fight. The worst care bears mine with guns.
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Noraja
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Posted - 2007.03.16 04:26:00 -
[71]
With the actual situation of Privateer Alliance is wardeccing everybody and their brother, I would suppose, that there is a limit of wardecs that can be made by an alliance/corp.
Corp = 5 Wardecs a time Allies = 20 Wardecs a time
And rise the cost also. 50 Mil a week to wardec an Alliance is just... A 3 Month old Belt-Rattin Carebear in 0.0 can make this much ISK a day
Make it more like 250 Mil a week, to make CONCORD not paying attention.
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Ezok Lyrad
Minmatar SANDMADI EXPLORATION AND EXTRACTION KOMPANY
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Posted - 2007.04.20 18:02:00 -
[72]
Originally by: William Hamilton Edited by: William Hamilton on 31/01/2007 17:32:53 WWII
Germany: We declare war on you, Poland! Poland: No. Germany: Oh... *cries*.
This concept is wrong...it should go: IBM: We declare war on Microsoft. Microsoft: No. IBM: War...(and are promptly desmantled by the US govt!)
*************************************************** *************************************************** |
Major Stallion
The Dark Horses Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.20 18:04:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Cadela Fria While we're at it, we should implement spacedragons, lightsabers..oh and a level system! Make EVE grindable..wouldn't that be awesome?..oh oh oh and lets not forget, concentual (sp?) pvp so that everytime a pirate comes into to scram and ransom you...you get a box saying "This person is trying to engage in hostile scram->shoot->ransom>kthxbai with you. Do you accept?" and if you say no, the pirate has to putter off again, otherwise he gets concordokken...it's only fair!
...now pardon me while I go throw myself out the window
roflmao...couldnt have said it any better than you did!
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Billy Sastard
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.04.20 21:03:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Tiny Tom OK, I'm late, but I'll throw in my two cents, anyway.
Having the ability to reject a war declaration is silly. However, that empires and Concord would ignore a battle in their own space just because there is a war declaration is also silly. Suggesting that Concord and the empires should ignore acts of violence in their space is like saying the game should force corps or factions to ignore violence between third parties within their sovereignties.
I've not been in a war, so I can't say precisely how it works, but I would expect Concord to ignore acts of violence outside of high sec provided there was a war declaration. The Empires should probably do the same until CCP gets them warring, too. In short, don't allow anyone to turn down a war dec, but enforce the peace in high sec. .......
Im sorry, but this is dumb... the whole point of a wardec as it stands is to engage in hostilitys in highsec space! CONCORD already ignores hostility outside of highsec, this would make wardecs pointless. -=^=-
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Tiny Tom
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Posted - 2007.04.21 16:13:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Billy Sastard
Originally by: Tiny Tom OK, I'm late, but I'll throw in my two cents, anyway.
Having the ability to reject a war declaration is silly. However, that empires and Concord would ignore a battle in their own space just because there is a war declaration is also silly. Suggesting that Concord and the empires should ignore acts of violence in their space is like saying the game should force corps or factions to ignore violence between third parties within their sovereignties.
I've not been in a war, so I can't say precisely how it works, but I would expect Concord to ignore acts of violence outside of high sec provided there was a war declaration. The Empires should probably do the same until CCP gets them warring, too. In short, don't allow anyone to turn down a war dec, but enforce the peace in high sec. .......
Im sorry, but this is dumb... the whole point of a wardec as it stands is to engage in hostilitys in highsec space! CONCORD already ignores hostility outside of highsec, this would make wardecs pointless.
Not entirely. You still take sec standing hits in low sec for ganking someone there. Avoiding that probably doesn't justify the cost of a war dec, however. My answer to that would be to reduce the cost of the war dec, or elminate the cost and make it informative only. Seriously, what authority can anyone cite that was supposed to keep the peace but had a fixed price on turning a blind eye toward violence? Either entities declare war as a matter of course, or they cultivate support within authority, which limits the scope of whom they can attack.
Of course, EVE doesn't really have a strong manner of establishing the later option, but that might be the ideal. If you align yourself with a given faction, it should be easy to make war with enemies of that faction with that faction's space. War against neutrals should be tougher, but probably still possible. War against allies should be nigh impossible. Finally, friendship with one faction should make you the enemy of another.
This is all moot in the short term, however. A patch coming Tuesday will just escalate the price of war based on which is greater--the number of current wars initiated by the declarer and the number of current wars declared on the target.
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nome morenow
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Posted - 2007.07.16 04:45:00 -
[76]
I feel that there should be a limit on who can be dec'd. If a corporation has less than a certain number of corp members then a war should not be able to be dec'd. It has been my experience that in all the "mining corps" I have been in, nobody really had the skills to do pvp. Declaring war on a corp that does not have the ability to fight is nothing short of cowardly and something someone with no self-esteem would do. I don't think this kind of change would throw the game out of balance. I think it would give noobs and those who cant fight, someplace to be and have their own CEO's and a purpose of their own.
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Cpt Branko
Guardian Heroes
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Posted - 2007.07.16 10:47:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 16/07/2007 10:53:15 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 16/07/2007 10:50:19
Originally by: ViolenTUK There should be a very cheap price for declaring a war as there is in real life when you're way stronger then someone and it should be extremely hard to stop a war.
Fixed it for you.
Now, war should never be consensual and it's not *meant* to be fair. Get over it.
You're not *entitled* to -anything- because you're paying your subscription. I am, too. However, this is CCP's game, and they define the playground. If it were up to me, I'd boot people out of NPC corps after a month so nobody is out of the wardec system. But I don't get a right to dictate what they do because I pay the supscription fee.
At any rate, the simple truth is: without PvP, carebearing would be *dead*, because the market would crash after a week. You want a steady stream of demand for ships & mods as the old ones get lost, else, the demand for new ships get far far too small to sustain the industry/mission/mining populace.
Additionally, declaring war on a miner corp which can't defend well is not cowardly, it's a good business decision. Some people do PvP for a living, you know
In EvE, eventually, you have to be able to fight to protect your interests. All those miners can jump in a bunch of T1 frigs and go try to learn how to fight. It costs next to nothing. And you know what happens when a dozen frigs descends on your average cruiser/BC/BS?
Edit: eh, responding to a necro-thread FTL. Didn't notice it at first glance. ;(
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band0fdevs
Gallente Band of Dev's
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Posted - 2007.07.16 11:33:00 -
[78]
bad necros bad
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Relapse Zero
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Posted - 2007.08.12 04:21:00 -
[79]
If people would start cancelling there subsciption they would fix the war dec system. I did and it really didn't hurt at all.
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Cheeva MekTor
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.12 08:44:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Cheeva MekTor on 12/08/2007 08:47:19 Thats probably the worst idea I ever heard lol, Stop war dec's? Terrible idea! One thing I could see though would be since technically, a war dec is CONCORD looking the other way through a bribe, maybe you could get into a bribe war? One corp war decs, 50 mil, the war decced corp says "we dont want a war, here is 100 mil" Then for shooting to actually start, the war deccing corp has to pay 150mil total with no counter a second time. Hey, its a bribe right? If they really want a war, then they can pay that amount and have their war, then maybe it'll have a purpose lol, they have 100mil to catch up on ;)
bad idea, i know lol, but would be effective in lowering the amount of wars in effect and CONCORD can increase their pilots pension =P
If you dont want to fight, you may want to put your ships up on blocks. Its not that bad, I have a miner and chased down a griefer, still have the biomass in corp hangar on display lol.
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Ares Helix
Gallente NunyaBizzness Phobos Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.12 09:10:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Gno Chalynn Basically war dec'ing allows the enjoyment of the game by the war dec'ing group to override the enjoyment of the group being war dec'd. I think the PVP groups should war dec each other, but then it is no fun being a bully and going up against a worthy opponent on equal grounds.
I CAN see what you're getting at, but at the same time I disagree.
OK, if this did go ahead, the conflict CCP is actively trying to promote would go down the drain and bigger corps/alliances would totally dominate Eve. Like the dude said earlier, Iraq couldn't politely decline the request to fight the US now could it?
However, wars without a valid reason ARE in breach of the 'Yulai' convention, SO if you feel you've been wardec'd without due cause, petition it.
:)
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Commodore Vansant
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Posted - 2007.10.30 09:29:00 -
[82]
Originally by: William Hamilton Edited by: William Hamilton on 31/01/2007 17:32:53 WWII
Germany: We declare war on you, Poland! Poland: No. Germany: Oh... *cries*.
Since you are equating Eve to the real world, using the events of the Great Wars as an example... Please allow me to do the same. Having a corporation declare war on another in high sec space, with a police presence, is equivalent to allowing someone to be attacked, or even killed, in full public view of real world police. I do however concede that the world's "police" are often powerless to effect action against agressors, though that is not the case in Eve.
HOWEVER, I do agree that since this is how the game operates (and prehaps how life in a deep space community might be), whining about it is futile and everyone else on this forum complaining about war dec'ing should shut up and put up. In other words, face the facts and train to kill your agressors!
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Drenan
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.30 10:43:00 -
[83]
The wardec system will not change because Eve is, essentially, a game designed by School Bullies, for School Bullies...
The Diagnostic Criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder include:
A. A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others as indicated by at least three of:
1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviours as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
4. reckless disregard for the safety of self or others;
5. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalising having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
Eve = Antisocial Personality Disorder Online
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.10.30 11:01:00 -
[84]
So long as people have a 'reason' to war dec someone instead of just 'because it's cheap and they can' it's working fine. It's not hard to avoid losing ships.
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Goti Evans
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Posted - 2007.10.30 11:19:00 -
[85]
ok the currrent prices for wars are absurdly cheap realy and most war decking corps are bribable so:
The War Declaring Sets an ISK figger for the corp to surrender at no bidding or any thing like that, you wat to surrender pay this much to us by pushing this button and the war ends in an hour. The surrender price effects the cost of declaring war. Declare cost is say a quarter or half of the surrender cost. so for example A Corp A pays 25Mill to declare Corp B setting the Surrender cost to 100Mill. B Corp A Dosent want corp B to surrender so they set the Surrender cost to 1Billion at a cost to them selves to declare it of 250Mill.
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Groes Thir
Gallente Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora
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Posted - 2007.10.30 11:41:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Groes Thir on 30/10/2007 11:41:01 Stop whining before CCP makes empire r-tard proof.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:41:00 -
[87]
Whole high sec space gives people totally wrong kind of impression about playing EVE methinks. And wardec system is dumb. Not because you can dec someone. Just because you even need to wardec people. Moar low sec.
If people could get used to low sec kind of space faster when they start playing they would stop complaining about wardecs at first place. It's pretty much easy to avoid any pvp if you really WANT to even in low sec. Just hide in some place in middle of nowhere, problem solved. Even then I see no point in grinding rats/veld from day to another without any risk.
And yeah like someone said you can always join deep core mining inc.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Phoenix Logistics Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:47:00 -
[88]
the necro is strong here
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