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Tia Beteran
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.02.11 22:34:25 -
[1] - Quote
Geetings
Found an intresting review and breakdown of CCP's finances for 2014
http://marketsforisk.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/ccp-financial-statements-for-2014-review.html
And seeing as CCP has gone dark about it's finances from the start of 2015, considering the introduction of SP trading and the extra income that will generate it does make you wonder what's what
https://www.themittani.com/news/ccp-goes-dark-company-financials
Anyhoo an interesting little titbit for you all
Fly safe and if not safe then fly in a tangent :) |
DaReaper
Net 7
2758
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Posted - 2016.02.11 22:51:37 -
[2] - Quote
skins came out in 2015, china subs were up a bit, gun jack came out towrads the end of the year, when the company files its taxes and someone sees that (like they did last year) around may, we will have a decent idea. my guess is they either are stable or increased rev by a bit, and this year with valk coming, injectors and citadels (possibly skins for them int he future) it will be even better.
The rebuild phase is winding down, subs should start to rise as new stuff comes into play.
CCP should be fine
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
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Aiwha
Infinite Point Northern Army
916
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 22:56:59 -
[3] - Quote
They issued public bonds in 2014, but retracted them by 2015. So they only had to publish financial details for a short while.
Its a legal thing. Doesen't actually prove/disprove anything about their current situation. SUB numbers however, are still down. So yeah. Take that as you will.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Aiwha for CSM XI
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.02.11 22:57:08 -
[4] - Quote
Predicting CCPs future finances is probably not too different than predicting the weather. No one will actually get it exactly right, though some might be close.
The difference is that you have a whole lot more information to predict the weather. Trying to predict the future of a company which doesn't report its financials is probably done better with a weegie board, than random player passive aggressive speculation with arm-chair degrees in Finance.
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1372
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Posted - 2016.02.11 23:24:34 -
[5] - Quote
The introduction of SP trading and all other micro transaction stuff hasn't got anything to do with bad financial circumstances. I'm willing to bet CCP is doing just fine financially. It's just that they realized what most people on this forum desperately try to close their eyes to. Subscription models are outdated and will drive away new audiences (and even old ones as more and more people struggle financially). Optional payments (AKA micro transactions) are where the gaming industry is at right now and EVE Online will have to adapt if it's going to survive into it's third decade. You know, that whole adapt or die thing we all love so much. Doesn't just apply in-game, you know. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but it is something that is going to happen sooner or later. CCP is introducing micro transactions slow and steady, so I don't expect the grand announcement of the removal of subscription fees for another 2 years at least. But it will happen, for the alternative is EVE dying for real.
And besides, seeing how insanely popular these skill injectors seem to be, I'd say they're on the right track. There's obviously a demand for these things.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
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Tisiphone Dira
WiNGSPAN Academy for Enterprising Pilots The WINGSPAN Logo Alliance
625
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Posted - 2016.02.11 23:32:26 -
[6] - Quote
With EvE Valkyrie coming with every occulus rift I'm bullish on ccp. |
Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.02.11 23:35:50 -
[7] - Quote
Getting enough players to support a free to play with micro transactions Eve Online in order to turn off the subscription model without risking a short-term shortage of cash could be the "chicken or egg" scenario.
Can you get enough players to support it still using the sub model? Or can you quickly gain enough players after you turn off the sub model?
Interesting observation.
The Free To Play model could just be a relatively short term fad. Finance models change all the time and who knows what will be next. I doubt Free to Play will be around for all of eternity. It has its drawbacks.
It certainly would not be in CCPs best interest to just blindly and recklessly adapt a new model because it seems to be the next best thing. It takes time to sort out and model various scenarios to validate assumptions. |
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1250
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Posted - 2016.02.11 23:38:56 -
[8] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:The introduction of SP trading and all other micro transaction stuff hasn't got anything to do with bad financial circumstances. I'm willing to bet CCP is doing just fine financially. It's just that they realized what most people on this forum desperately try to close their eyes to. Subscription models are outdated and will drive away new audiences (and even old ones as more and more people struggle financially). Optional payments (AKA micro transactions) are where the gaming industry is at right now and EVE Online will have to adapt if it's going to survive into it's third decade. You know, that whole adapt or die thing we all love so much. Doesn't just apply in-game, you know. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but it is something that is going to happen sooner or later. CCP is introducing micro transactions slow and steady, so I don't expect the grand announcement of the removal of subscription fees for another 2 years at least. But it will happen, for the alternative is EVE dying for real. And besides, seeing how insanely popular these skill injectors seem to be, I'd say they're on the right track. There's obviously a demand for these things. I forget the part where you seem naive enough to miss the fact ccp upper management pumped copious amounts of eve player subscription cash right down the pan on dust and vampires - and how that has subsequently, and is continuing to affect the eve playerbase in light of blatant cash grabs and "exciting new features" which are clearly engineered to milk a cow for all that it might yield.
Concord Approved Trader
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koenkoard
Bogan Nation I N F A M O U S
2
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Posted - 2016.02.11 23:51:42 -
[9] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:The introduction of SP trading and all other micro transaction stuff hasn't got anything to do with bad financial circumstances. I'm willing to bet CCP is doing just fine financially. It's just that they realized what most people on this forum desperately try to close their eyes to. Subscription models are outdated and will drive away new audiences (and even old ones as more and more people struggle financially). Optional payments (AKA micro transactions) are where the gaming industry is at right now and EVE Online will have to adapt if it's going to survive into it's third decade. You know, that whole adapt or die thing we all love so much. Doesn't just apply in-game, you know. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but it is something that is going to happen sooner or later. CCP is introducing micro transactions slow and steady, so I don't expect the grand announcement of the removal of subscription fees for another 2 years at least. But it will happen, for the alternative is EVE dying for real. And besides, seeing how insanely popular these skill injectors seem to be, I'd say they're on the right track. There's obviously a demand for these things.
Meh, I wouldnGÇÖt call injectors Insanely Popular... Just novelty like everything else, after the initial wave itGÇÿll die down... 700mil ISK for 300k sp points is too much. Unless the price changes the amount of transactions will be extremely low as the time passes. People will realize (soon enough) that is actually cheaper to buy a made character at the bazaar. I bought a 70mil sp nice caldari toon with great shield/misiles/core skills for 22bill. In comparison, to build a character like that using injectors on a 5.5mil sp starter toon would cost around 215 injectors @700mil ISK each = 150 BILLION ISK
so yeah, novelty like everything else. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1870
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:55:37 -
[10] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:They issued public bonds in 2014, but retracted them by 2015. So they only had to publish financial details for a short while.
But that's not nearly as provocative as claiming they've mysteriously "gone dark", now is it?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
301
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 23:57:12 -
[11] - Quote
koenkoard wrote: Meh, I wouldnGÇÖt call injectors Insanely Popular... Just novelty like everything else, after the initial wave itGÇÿll die down... 700mil ISK for 300k sp points is too much. Unless the price changes the amount of transactions will be extremely low as the time passes. People will realize (soon enough) that is actually cheaper to buy a made character at the bazaar. I bought a 70mil sp nice caldari toon with great shield/misiles/core skills for 22bill. In comparison, to build a character like that using injectors on a 5.5mil sp starter toon would cost around 215 injectors @700mil ISK each = 150 BILLION ISK
so yeah, novelty like everything else.
I thought they were going to do away with the character bazaar, I thought that was one of the reasons for the injectors. |
koenkoard
Bogan Nation I N F A M O U S
2
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 01:31:07 -
[12] - Quote
Avvy wrote:koenkoard wrote: Meh, I wouldnGÇÖt call injectors Insanely Popular... Just novelty like everything else, after the initial wave itGÇÿll die down... 700mil ISK for 300k sp points is too much. Unless the price changes the amount of transactions will be extremely low as the time passes. People will realize (soon enough) that is actually cheaper to buy a made character at the bazaar. I bought a 70mil sp nice caldari toon with great shield/misiles/core skills for 22bill. In comparison, to build a character like that using injectors on a 5.5mil sp starter toon would cost around 215 injectors @700mil ISK each = 150 BILLION ISK
so yeah, novelty like everything else.
I thought they were going to do away with the character bazaar, I thought that was one of the reasons for the injectors.
I donGÇÖt think they would do that... Too much heat from the community. Especially cause they make money off of it (2 plex character transfer fee)
If you think about it, these buggers make money on every front and for every concept. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
184
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 03:22:02 -
[13] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:They issued public bonds in 2014, but retracted them by 2015. So they only had to publish financial details for a short while.
Its a legal thing. Doesen't actually prove/disprove anything about their current situation. SUB numbers however, are still down. So yeah. Take that as you will. THANK YOU!
I am very gratified to see how quickly someone posted this. There isn't a private company on the face of this planet that posts detailed financial information to the public unless they are publically traded or have issued public bonds.
Trying to use that as "ammo" for your doom threads, OP, just makes you look uneducated.
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
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Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
273
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 09:50:04 -
[14] - Quote
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:Getting enough players to support a free to play with micro transactions Eve Online in order to turn off the subscription model without risking a short-term shortage of cash could be the "chicken or egg" scenario.
Can you get enough players to support it still using the sub model? Or can you quickly gain enough players after you turn off the sub model?
Interesting observation.
The Free To Play model could just be a relatively short term fad. Finance models change all the time and who knows what will be next. I doubt Free to Play will be around for all of eternity. It has its drawbacks.
It certainly would not be in CCPs best interest to just blindly and recklessly adapt a new model because it seems to be the next best thing. It takes time to sort out and model various scenarios to validate assumptions.
Why not just do both?
I'm happy to pay a sub. I would not play this game at all if I had to grind for PLEX every month, as I already have a job...
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Sneaky Little Bastard
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.02.12 10:13:06 -
[15] - Quote
Oh I see ! Turning the game into P2W to gain more money. Great job CCP. You'll have less players, but the remaining will pay more, awesome. |
Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
119
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 10:39:15 -
[16] - Quote
The reason no glaring and definitive result is seen is that there is none to be seen. This means CCP is teetering between red and black. Its black isn't pulling down money hand over fist, and its red isn't an express elevator to the basement.
Since its black is so thin, and red so close by, there's no operating capital available for any major moves. Even developing other ventures can't be achieved without going into debt, or recruiting investment (which is essentially the same thing when you get down to it.)
This explains why any changes are superficial and mechanical tweaks by nature, with no major overhauls requiring payment of highly qualified talent and investment of time and resources.
This is in all likelihood due to the fact the golden age of MMOs has long since been over. Inflation and the accompanying loss of value of currencies world wide make required investments too huge in relation to expected revenue - thus deterring investors. That EVE is alive at all is testimony to its core design value, and in turn its percentage of loyal customers (regardless of what the obvious drop in these has been.)
It's still got a pulse. It's not heading to any Olympic events any time soon.
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
427
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 13:05:44 -
[17] - Quote
croda
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games pay More to win at skill training time, now with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2929
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 14:43:15 -
[18] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:skins came out in 2015, china subs were up a bit, gun jack came out towrads the end of the year, when the company files its taxes and someone sees that (like they did last year) around may, we will have a decent idea. my guess is they either are stable or increased rev by a bit, and this year with valk coming, injectors and citadels (possibly skins for them int he future) it will be even better.
The rebuild phase is winding down, subs should start to rise as new stuff comes into play.
CCP should be fine Excuse me sir, but j noticed you are diverging from the pre-approved narrative here.
Repeat after me: Eve is dying.
Now doesn't that sound much better? |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5038
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 14:51:40 -
[19] - Quote
These aren't the finances you're looking for.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4689
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 15:26:11 -
[20] - Quote
20 minutes into the future...
Coming to a EVE near you:
Unlimited Trial! Play EVE for as long as you want! No subscription required!
The little print: Unlimited Trial accounts will stop earning SP past 15 days. But you can buy SP from other players! Also, remember that certain ship classes are restricted (can't be used) for Trial accounts. Also certain services (pilot resculpt, pilot transfer and skillpoint extraction) are restricted too.
Notice: a Unlimited Trial account is for trial purposes only. Once subscribbed, your account can't revert to Unlimited Trial status.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
89
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Posted - 2016.02.12 15:48:19 -
[21] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:The introduction of SP trading and all other micro transaction stuff hasn't got anything to do with bad financial circumstances. I'm willing to bet CCP is doing just fine financially. It's just that they realized what most people on this forum desperately try to close their eyes to. Subscription models are outdated and will drive away new audiences (and even old ones as more and more people struggle financially). Optional payments (AKA micro transactions) are where the gaming industry is at right now and EVE Online will have to adapt if it's going to survive into it's third decade. You know, that whole adapt or die thing we all love so much. Doesn't just apply in-game, you know. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but it is something that is going to happen sooner or later. CCP is introducing micro transactions slow and steady, so I don't expect the grand announcement of the removal of subscription fees for another 2 years at least. But it will happen, for the alternative is EVE dying for real. And besides, seeing how insanely popular these skill injectors seem to be, I'd say they're on the right track. There's obviously a demand for these things.
I might be blind or stupid or both but it seems to me that we are still paying subscription fees while at the same time micro (or in same cases macro) transactions are being pushed all over the place. I don't have anything against skins (hats :D ) but SP extracted and injected has already been paid and I don't see any sane reason why it should be paid again, especially at such a high price.
If the fantasy about helping new players was true (think how we make fun of new players who buy and lose expensive things) the extractors would be made in-game instead it's a money grab by CCP who's management has failed yet again with some far reaching and utterly unrealistic plans. At best it's an improvement on past "greed is good" days when changes in EVE were non-existent. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
301
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 17:04:46 -
[22] - Quote
Axhind wrote:
I might be blind or stupid or both but it seems to me that we are still paying subscription fees while at the same time micro (or in same cases macro) transactions are being pushed all over the place. I don't have anything against skins (hats :D ) but SP extracted and injected has already been paid and I don't see any sane reason why it should be paid again, especially at such a high price.
If the fantasy about helping new players was true (think how we make fun of new players who buy and lose expensive things) the extractors would be made in-game instead it's a money grab by CCP who's management has failed yet again with some far reaching and utterly unrealistic plans. At best it's an improvement on past "greed is good" days when changes in EVE were non-existent.
You don't pay for sp by paying a sub, you pay for the license to play the game.
Sounds like you wouldn't be so opposed to it if the prices were lower.
Being a player run market means the price is set by supply and demand, for me the jury is out on if that was a good decision or not. Although being a player driven market allows for sp extraction and allows players to correct past mistakes.
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Thorian Baalnorn
Bad Influence ChaosTheory.
77
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Posted - 2016.02.12 20:15:51 -
[23] - Quote
The following features are pay to win in eve:
1) Plexes ( allows you have a supply of isk only limited by your real life expendable income) 2) Multiple accounts( Allows you to create cyno alts, specialist alts, intel alts, or 40 miners and rorq pilot) 3) Multiple character training ( Allows you to skill up alts and your main at the same time giving you a significant advantage) 4) Skill injectors ( turns you from newb to pro-leet faster than you can say epipen.)
All of these things can be considered pay to win...except one tee-tiny little problem. Eve is not designed as a P2W game. While these may give you advantages, They are not going to put you in god mode. And people are still going to blow your stuff up and take your stuff and its still going to be based on actual player skill not how many iskies you got.
Honestly, players who dont have all these advantages tend to be better at the game because they are less careless as everything has more value to them. Tossing money at eve will always result in a loss of money. Someone will always be able to get the jump on you or outdo you and that person may very well be someone that just spends $15 a month and thats it.
Edit to add: If you want to see a true P2W game, jump on your phone, download "game of war" and observe. You will need to spend $100 a month just to survive in that game, and several hundred a month to be even close to top in your kingdom( and there are many kingdoms)
That game has a super high turnover rate, like all P2W games. It also has almost no entertainment value whatsoever and you spend all your time buying stuff and using it to progress a little further in the game. One little mistake and some bigger players stomps a mudhole in your back side and you have to rebuild everything which puts you even further behind. Unless you dump hundreds of more $$$ into the game for instant training.
That is P2W, Eve is no where close to P2W.
Sometimes you are the squirrel and sometimes you are the nut. Today, you are the nut and the squirrel is hungry.
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
641
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 20:29:14 -
[24] - Quote
I don't think CCP is a company to encourage people to invest money into EVE for if they are not doing well. They seem too passionate about EVE and us (The players) for something like that. But that may just be because I can be somewhat naiv+½, who knows? |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
148
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 20:37:20 -
[25] - Quote
Quote:CCP Finances - what does the future hold? Probably more expensive reallife monuments and half-baked projects like World of Darkness and Dust 514. Gunjack. EVE Valkyrie.
EVE will have have to fund everything and thus we will see more cash grab features like skill trading. I wouldn't be surprised if EVE goes F2P in the next months or years. |
Nalia White
Tencus
157
|
Posted - 2016.02.12 21:31:41 -
[26] - Quote
Thorian Baalnorn wrote:The following features are pay to win in eve:
1) Plexes ( allows you have a supply of isk only limited by your real life expendable income) 2) Multiple accounts( Allows you to create cyno alts, specialist alts, intel alts, or 40 miners and rorq pilot) 3) Multiple character training ( Allows you to skill up alts and your main at the same time giving you a significant advantage) 4) Skill injectors ( turns you from newb to pro-leet faster than you can say epipen.)
forgot the character bazar even :) hard to draw the line on pay to win. eve was always pay to win if you look at it this way. you are a brand new player? buy yourself as many pilots as you like and fit them out with the ships you like. possible from the start. this never changed. |
Ibutho Inkosi
Irubo Kovu
126
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 10:47:26 -
[27] - Quote
Insofar as the original question, and how it's framed within the context of the financial aspect of keeping a corporation alive, the actual features of EVE will appeal to some people and not to others. The ones they appeal to naturally will sub and stay. The nots will leave. The fact this issue exists is a wash as to how many customers EVE has. It has only to do with what sort of customers does EVE have.
Discussing this in terms of the greater picture of finance indicates if the direction CCP chooses is profitable to CCP, or not. It has nothing to do with whether it satisfies certain players' idea of what a great game is. A guy I worked with once remarked, "If we all liked the same thing you'd all be sleeping with my old lady." The fact is we as a customer base, or market (gamers) do not like the same things as a group.
It is up to a corporation trying to work within this market to select which "types" of customers it will try to appeal to. How it then goes about producing their product to meet the expectations of this group isn't actually measured in the gesticulations of vocal members of that market. It is in the end measured in terms of if the corporation continues to exist.
The financial statements presented, and the very existence of this forum demonstrates CCP does indeed continue to exist. The subject line here is "...what does the future hold?" It isn't "How does EVE differ to what I imagine is the perfect EVE?"
TYVMHave a nice day!
TL;DR (Get an attention span) Try to stay on subject.
As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
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Cristl
330
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Posted - 2016.02.13 12:31:33 -
[28] - Quote
Nalia White wrote:Thorian Baalnorn wrote:The following features are pay to win in eve:
1) Plexes ( allows you have a supply of isk only limited by your real life expendable income) 2) Multiple accounts( Allows you to create cyno alts, specialist alts, intel alts, or 40 miners and rorq pilot) 3) Multiple character training ( Allows you to skill up alts and your main at the same time giving you a significant advantage) 4) Skill injectors ( turns you from newb to pro-leet faster than you can say epipen.)
forgot the character bazar even :) hard to draw the line on pay to win. eve was always pay to win if you look at it this way. you are a brand new player? buy yourself as many pilots as you like and fit them out with the ships you like. possible from the start. this never changed. What a spectacular load of rubbish. Of those 5 things, only (2) multiple accounts was 'possible from the start'. Why the hell do people on the internet feel the need to make this sort of crap up?
Tit. |
Sonja Fury
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2016.02.15 03:40:31 -
[29] - Quote
Cristl wrote:Nalia White wrote:Thorian Baalnorn wrote:The following features are pay to win in eve:
1) Plexes ( allows you have a supply of isk only limited by your real life expendable income) 2) Multiple accounts( Allows you to create cyno alts, specialist alts, intel alts, or 40 miners and rorq pilot) 3) Multiple character training ( Allows you to skill up alts and your main at the same time giving you a significant advantage) 4) Skill injectors ( turns you from newb to pro-leet faster than you can say epipen.)
forgot the character bazar even :) hard to draw the line on pay to win. eve was always pay to win if you look at it this way. you are a brand new player? buy yourself as many pilots as you like and fit them out with the ships you like. possible from the start. this never changed. What a spectacular load of rubbish. Of those 5 things, only (2) multiple accounts was 'possible from the start'. Why the hell do people on the internet feel the need to make this sort of crap up? Tit.
I never know why people create these threads hoping for a game they play to struggle. |
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1068
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 04:24:40 -
[30] - Quote
In this pace? a dead eve for sure. |
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