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Lugh Crow-Slave
1557
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Posted - 2016.02.13 01:44:24 -
[121] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:"It is important to remember that Force Auxiliaries are new ships and can be tuned specifically for Triage gameplay in both mechanics and stats"
tuned specifically for triage gameplay doesn't sound like they're meant to be fleet support ships at all, from what I gather, theyre designed to be dedicated triage boats.
1% bonus to Siege Warfare and Information Warfare Links effectiveness
If you think ANYONE is going to waste a highslot on a warfare link on one of these things, as opposed to having a dedicated fleet booster, then you're having a laugh.
Honestly, its a complete waste of two role bonuses, they might aswell not be there at all, theyre completely detrimental if fitted to any fleet, as not only does it reduce the amount of remote reps the carrier can give out (3 links, triage mod leaves 2 slots for reppers lawl), but the bonuses are so low, you are better off using a command destroyer over them.
A FAR better role bonus for a dedicated triage boat, especially considering the refit penalties, which are going to make jumping in to a hostile fleet a complete nightmare to counter, is giving FAUX a reduction in the capacitor amount needed to jump. That way, FAUX can actually be used to jump into hostiles, reducing a defender's advantage.
Another great bonus for FAUX to have would be a reduction in the amount needed for remote armor or shield reps
Another one would be to increase the effectiveness of capacitor battery resistance to counter capital neuts
Another one would be to reduce the amount of nanite paste needed to repair modules, or increase the repair speed of damage modules.
I could write about another 20 which would actually be useful to a FAUX, but having warfare links on a ship with 6 highslots thats meant to rep, triage, and cap transfer, is at the absolute bottom of the list.
Like I said maybe ccp is tailoring triage to now give warfare link boosts the 1%bonuse seems odd in every way of there if no plan behind it.
But if nothing is gong to be done with it then yes it is a major waste of three role bonuses
Citadel worm hole tax
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Alex Lenin
Providing of the first medical aid SOLAR FLEET
1
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Posted - 2016.02.13 02:00:40 -
[122] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:3 cycle time is a great help with low buffer sub caps
Someone use triage with low buffer ships? LULWUT?
Triage on field mean that there already is BS or Cap fleet (or t3 armor cruiser, ok). And low buffer mean hight mobility, but triage-ship absolutely hasn't it. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1557
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Posted - 2016.02.13 02:04:29 -
[123] - Quote
Alex Lenin wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:3 cycle time is a great help with low buffer sub caps Someone use triage with low buffer ships? LULWUT? Triage on field mean that there already is BS or Cap fleet (or t3 armor cruiser, ok). And low buffer mean hight mobility, but triage-ship absolutely hasn't it.
Low buffer relative to capital ships
Citadel worm hole tax
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Syri Taneka
Un4seen Development Sev3rance
121
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Posted - 2016.02.13 02:19:53 -
[124] - Quote
Can we get an idea of how Carrier skill bonuses are going to change since they will no longer be doing logistics? I have a Thanatos and a Nidhoggur and I want to know which (if either) I should keep as a carrier. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
190
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Posted - 2016.02.13 02:44:51 -
[125] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:A 1% role bonus to links is trash. This means 3 of 4 role bonuses are completely wasted. No one will ever use these for links when they can fly a covert nullified almost unprobable T3 for half the price and get a 10% bonus with defensive subsystems at 5. Let alone a CS with 15% bonuses.
If your aim was to get a 5% bonus, then make it a 5% role bonus, or a 1% per level of something skill bonus. Is that supposed to be 1%? Something tells me that might have been a typo, as weird as it would be to see it repeated that many times.
I mean, what would be the point of even having a 1% role bonus?
_#portDust514
Don't let interactions like this become only a memory.
(EVE alt> Sarayu Wyvern. Dust 514 alt> Mobius Wyvern.)
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loquacious7
String Theory For. U Hell's Pirates
27
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Posted - 2016.02.13 03:10:20 -
[126] - Quote
galtest12345 wrote:That "card game" analogy hurt my brain so much.
Seriously, you're missing the mark here: Bringing your fleet and all the fitting to the field is your deck, how you fit and choices you make in refitting is you playing particular cards in your deck.
You cannot change your entire deck (the fleet composition, modules you brought) mid-game, but what kind of card game makes you bring and play all your cards in one big hand?
What boring ass card game do you envision, where you show your cards, the enemy shows his, you declare the winner and then that's it. Wow that's 13 seconds of card gaming spent, now what?
By removing refitting you are making it so only certain doctrines become viable, you cannot counter or adapt in the field so you have to ensure your fleet is of sufficient cookie cutter status to meet the most likely enemy. That is removing choice, removing tactics. This is what it was like before, refitting in combat unlocked SO many avenues for small gangs, fleets, single players, etc. to try well thought through tactics.
Imagine the Rooks n Kings videos with no combat refitting .. Oh wait, half of them wouldn't exist, because that small group would not have been able to pull off the stunts they did without it.
Not to mention the implications for people in PVE, who now have to just bring X ship and that's it because you cannot refit with a bastion module going - PVE, shooting red crosses, is verging on mind numbing already and you are eliminating a creative aspect of it, and murdering a ton of good, fun fits that people use.
I realise you aren't going to change your mind because you believe that "committing and then being blown up or blowing the enemy up in a mind numbing hit F1-F4" is the best form or fleet warfare and that all the fights should be won in EFT before hand, but seriously .. you are wrong.
In some card games you actually get to throw away a few cards and keep what works for you, then you get to replace the cards that you thought would not work. But that logic works :) I'm not sure who these people are that said big fleets of capitals are killing this game. when everyone was logging in and big fleets were the norm I believe around 60k players were online on the weekends. But now after all these "fixes" we should tell those people they can log back in... |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2275
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Posted - 2016.02.13 03:12:52 -
[127] - Quote
Looks to me like you nailed it this time, CCP. Well done.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1557
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Posted - 2016.02.13 03:15:21 -
[128] - Quote
Syri Taneka wrote:Can we get an idea of how Carrier skill bonuses are going to change since they will no longer be doing logistics? I have a Thanatos and a Nidhoggur and I want to know which (if either) I should keep as a carrier.
ii hope it gets its own blog they keep lumping things together into the same blogs and it makes the feedback threads a mess
Citadel worm hole tax
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
771
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Posted - 2016.02.13 03:58:54 -
[129] - Quote
Can we just get rid of triage? Its terrible game play by itself - your ship is stuck in one place - you cant do anything but rep while everyone is slowly killing you. Also with the removal of combat fitting.any skill that was associated with triage use has been totally thrown out the window. IMO it would be better to make fax like large t1 repping cruisers. Anyone who has played with exeq or scythe knows they can be terribly fun spider tanking combat ships, and can in the right circumstances be a serious force in and of themselves. Moreover, because your focus is on multiple things while you are using them - applying dps, repping friendlies, keeping range from hostiles while staying in range of your mates, means that properly using such ships is skill intensive which would be a decent trade off for the loss of skill issues caused by the removal of combat refitting. Hence. it would be sweet imo if fax were just larger exeqs or scythes - with bonus to repping capabilities and corresponding combat capabilities in and of themselves.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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PAPULA
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
75
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Posted - 2016.02.13 04:15:50 -
[130] - Quote
Quote:Any carrier with a triage module fitted (T1 or T2) in station, contract or ship maintenance array will be changed to a Force Auxiliary of the same faction. So currently i have gallente carrier level 4 will i be able to fly Fore Aux after this change ? or do i have to TRAIN Force Aux to level 1 ?
What will loss of gallente carrier do ? we get skillpoints or do we get same faction force aux skill to level as we have carrier now ?!
Also do i have to pay 500mil again so i can fly "new carrier" called Force Aux ? |
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2275
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Posted - 2016.02.13 04:23:40 -
[131] - Quote
Quote:If you've already purchased a Force Auxiliary skillbook, the purchase price and any skillpoints trained will be refunded.
When will the current FAX skills get removed and reimbursed? It seems to me that this should be patched fairly soon. If it is not, people should be able to build up quite a few allocatable skillpoints between patches.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2275
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Posted - 2016.02.13 04:24:28 -
[132] - Quote
PAPULA wrote:Quote:Any carrier with a triage module fitted (T1 or T2) in station, contract or ship maintenance array will be changed to a Force Auxiliary of the same faction. So currently i have gallente carrier level 4 will i be able to fly Fore Aux after this change ? or do i have to TRAIN Force Aux to level 1 ? What will loss of gallente carrier do ? we get skillpoints or do we get same faction force aux skill to level as we have carrier now ?! Also do i have to pay 500mil again so i can fly "new carrier" called Force Aux ?
No. All these questions are answered in the new Dev Blog.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
1099
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Posted - 2016.02.13 04:35:54 -
[133] - Quote
Great changes, although I'm still a little confused as to why the light fighter and support fighter skills should still be 12x. |
PAPULA
Black Aces I N F A M O U S
75
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Posted - 2016.02.13 04:36:57 -
[134] - Quote
Quote:Our currently proposed solution is that you canGÇÖt refit with a weapons timer. Meaning, if you are aggressing a player, or assisting a player ship who is aggressing a player, you can't refit for 60 seconds. What about marauders in bastion mode for example shooting npc's ? There is no PvP involved and i can't refit my marauader ?
Or are marauders getting a special timer that doesn't allow docking but still allows refiting as long as marauder is not in combat with another player ? |
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers Goonswarm Federation
282
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Posted - 2016.02.13 05:25:43 -
[135] - Quote
[quote=Mr Rive]"It is important to remember that Force Auxiliaries are new ships and can be tuned specifically for Triage gameplay in both mechanics and stats"
tuned specifically for triage gameplay doesn't sound like they're meant to be fleet support ships at all, from what I gather, theyre designed to be dedicated triage boats.
1% bonus to Siege Warfare and Information Warfare Links effectiveness
If you think ANYONE is going to waste a highslot on a warfare link on one of these things, as opposed to having a dedicated fleet booster, then you're having a laugh.
Honestly, its a complete waste of two role bonuses, they might aswell not be there at all, theyre completely detrimental if fitted to any fleet, as not only does it reduce the amount of remote reps the carrier can give out (3 links, triage mod leaves 2 slots for reppers lawl), but the bonuses are so low, you are better off using a command destroyer over them.
quote]
Except the Fax will be using an Actual warfare link that doesn't run out of probe/charge/link ammo unlike the Command Destroyer in the near future. That CD is good until it hits Reload, and I am sure you do not want to keep a CD sitting in the middle of your Cap fleet just to fire off Boost probes. Remember from the Podcast Command destroyer will become the Boost launching version of an Interdictor. Eris = Interdiction probes Magus = Boost probes FAX = link that can always apply boosts within the area of effect range. Figure like a Big ole Hictor bubble of boost if they follow the methods of the Interdictor and Heavy Interdictor mechanics. |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
290
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Posted - 2016.02.13 06:38:15 -
[136] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:seriously though gallente ship with shield transfers, what's up with that
Yup, instead of shield make it hull instead. :)
Just Add Water
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2971
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Posted - 2016.02.13 08:44:00 -
[137] - Quote
With regards to the scriptable hardeners, will they show up on ship scan as loaded with a particular script. So that someone with a ship scanner can see the changes and then ammo swap to go through the new hole. |
Zee Zaugg
Quantum Star Conglomerate
76
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Posted - 2016.02.13 10:07:03 -
[138] - Quote
Combat refitting is unhealthy.I don't think a weapons timer is long enough, you shouldn't be able to refit at all under fire. Realistically its a major refit that can't be done in seconds. Game wise its unbalanced and removes the consequences of having to plan ahead and know what you're fighting. Also the new modules like the emergency DC and the scriptable resists actually do a lot of the same work as the refitting did, just in a less abuseable way. Don't let them bully you ccp this is a good idea don't go easy on them.
Also, 1% link bonus is just silly. Any link is silly, its a medic not a flagship. If you want to add a sad boost add it to carriers, which are historically flagship classes. But the FAX don't need boosters, they're straight logi, don't mix roles. What they should really have is a hefty boost to logi drones. That would make sense for the class and since they look like giant carriers it would look right. Or even adding a new kind of fighter logi tryp just for them. Bit drones should be a part of them |
Baki Yuku
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
56
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Posted - 2016.02.13 10:15:23 -
[139] - Quote
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:[quote=Mr Rive]"It is important to remember that Force Auxiliaries are new ships and can be tuned specifically for Triage gameplay in both mechanics and stats"
tuned specifically for triage gameplay doesn't sound like they're meant to be fleet support ships at all, from what I gather, theyre designed to be dedicated triage boats.
1% bonus to Siege Warfare and Information Warfare Links effectiveness
If you think ANYONE is going to waste a highslot on a warfare link on one of these things, as opposed to having a dedicated fleet booster, then you're having a laugh.
Honestly, its a complete waste of two role bonuses, they might aswell not be there at all, theyre completely detrimental if fitted to any fleet, as not only does it reduce the amount of remote reps the carrier can give out (3 links, triage mod leaves 2 slots for reppers lawl), but the bonuses are so low, you are better off using a command destroyer over them.
quote]
Except the Fax will be using an Actual warfare link that doesn't run out of probe/charge/link ammo unlike the Command Destroyer in the near future. That CD is good until it hits Reload, and I am sure you do not want to keep a CD sitting in the middle of your Cap fleet just to fire off Boost probes. Remember from the Podcast Command destroyer will become the Boost launching version of an Interdictor. Eris = Interdiction probes Magus = Boost probes FAX = link that can always apply boosts within the area of effect range. Figure like a Big ole Hictor bubble of boost if they follow the methods of the Interdictor and Heavy Interdictor mechanics.
You really don't get it. Links on FAX are pointless. That this even needs to be explained is just sad. Another faceplam is the slotlayout there really wasnt any point of adding another highslot that mid they took away in exchange is a huge deal especially to the caldari version. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17476
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Posted - 2016.02.13 10:25:06 -
[140] - Quote
Surely your analysis relies on Links working as they do at present?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Mr Rive
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
135
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Posted - 2016.02.13 10:34:49 -
[141] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Surely your analysis relies on Links working as they do at present?
No, not really.
Unless there is something amazing on the horizon, which I doubt, adding any kind of warfare link capacity to a ship which is designed for repping, and is, IN CCP's words, 'designed to die' is mental.
Just give us a ship which is tailored for triage, please, for the love of god. It's not much to ask. |
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
787
|
Posted - 2016.02.13 10:44:28 -
[142] - Quote
What would be the ship bonuses for classic carriers after remote rep role is given to FAX.
any link for such info?
thx in advance. |
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
135
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Posted - 2016.02.13 10:45:20 -
[143] - Quote
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: Except the Fax will be using an Actual warfare link that doesn't run out of probe/charge/link ammo unlike the Command Destroyer in the near future. That CD is good until it hits Reload, and I am sure you do not want to keep a CD sitting in the middle of your Cap fleet just to fire off Boost probes. Remember from the Podcast Command destroyer will become the Boost launching version of an Interdictor. Eris = Interdiction probes Magus = Boost probes FAX = link that can always apply boosts within the area of effect range. Figure like a Big ole Hictor bubble of boost if they follow the methods of the Interdictor and Heavy Interdictor mechanics.
Honestly, whatever changes theyre making to links, I couldn't care less. If they wanted a command carrier, they should have made a command carrier faction version.
It's going to be hard enough to fly these bloody things without having to surrender 2 role bonus slots for warfare links.
It just seems like they did what they always do with logicsitcs, and have done for years, and tacked them on at the end, after adding all the 'cool explodey features' to other capital ships, and then realized 'oh crap we forgot we wanted links on carriers now! F*** it give them to the FAUX its not like anyone cares'
WELL I CARE GODDAMN IT, THIS WAS MEANT TO BE MY MOMENT. |
D3m0n sam
Shadow Incursion The Banished
65
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Posted - 2016.02.13 10:45:22 -
[144] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Quote:If you've already purchased a Force Auxiliary skillbook, the purchase price and any skillpoints trained will be refunded. When will the current FAX skills get removed and reimbursed? It seems to me that this should be patched fairly soon. If it is not, people should be able to build up quite a few allocatable skillpoints between patches.
You will most likely have to wait a bit.
They will need to query the server to get a list of all the names of people that have brought the skillbooks / injected skills into them.
I would expect a week or two. |
D3m0n sam
Shadow Incursion The Banished
65
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Posted - 2016.02.13 10:55:31 -
[145] - Quote
What will happen with the original Fighter skillbook will this apply to the damage of squadrons? |
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
166
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Posted - 2016.02.13 10:56:56 -
[146] - Quote
Are fitted rigs on carriers with a triage module gonna be transferred or are they gonna get nuked?
Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2382
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Posted - 2016.02.13 11:47:32 -
[147] - Quote
onefineday wrote:Am sorry but you make no sense regarding forbidding fittings, eve fights never 10 vs 10 most of the time battle field in eve has few different doctrines and only way to outclass your enemy in this game is by adapting to ever changing battle including your fittings, thats a reason smaller more advance forces still have an capability to fight blobs adapt and win. Commitment part to battlefield comes from your enemy's doctors and bublers and spread points no matter the fitting. Removing chance of refit on mid fight will make those fights shorter as fighting groups will have much less flexibility. But i guess thats what you want ccp given itll apply to both sides ull just have to adapt differently to changing situations.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2275
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Posted - 2016.02.13 12:10:22 -
[148] - Quote
D3m0n sam wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Quote:If you've already purchased a Force Auxiliary skillbook, the purchase price and any skillpoints trained will be refunded. When will the current FAX skills get removed and reimbursed? It seems to me that this should be patched fairly soon. If it is not, people should be able to build up quite a few allocatable skillpoints between patches. You will most likely have to wait a bit. They will need to query the server to get a list of all the names of people that have brought the skillbooks / injected skills into them. I would expect a week or two.
The longer they wait, the more SP I will have I can allocate wherever I want. With my current remap (Per/Will), I can train the new Fighter skills faster by training Fleet Auxiliary skills now and then reallocating those SP than I can train the new Fighter skills themselves (2700 SP/hour versus 2280 SP/hour).
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17477
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Posted - 2016.02.13 12:11:32 -
[149] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Malcanis wrote:Surely your analysis relies on Links working as they do at present? No, not really. Unless there is something amazing on the horizon, which I doubt, adding any kind of warfare link capacity to a ship which is designed for repping, and is, IN CCP's words, 'designed to die' is mental. Just give us a ship which is tailored for triage, please, for the love of god. It's not much to ask.
I guess I just don't see why you've got your knickers in such a twist about it. It's not like it's costing you anything that FAX can, if they want to, fit links. Is Grath telling you that you will be forced to fit them? Are you being threatened?
Listen, blink twice if you're being threated.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1465
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Posted - 2016.02.13 12:40:57 -
[150] - Quote
Good news on removing in-combat refitting. Instead of basing it on the weapons timer, how about the limited engagement timer? One minute after deaggressing isn't really long enough. It would still be done in combat a lot. Five minutes isn't unreasonable after combat ends. That way there is that commitment you were talking about, but still the option of refitting in space soon after a fight. Plus, the target couldn't just deaggress and wait out a timer; enemies shooting him would keep the timer running so in-combat refitting will be cancelled for real, not just for people who can't last for 60 seconds.
This issue really shouldn't be handled in a cap ship focus group. The majority of combat in Eve doesn't involve them, while this change affects everyone. Just make sure not to crap on the little guys to keep the cap pilots from going bat-**** crazy. (They're mostly bat-**** crazy already. Just ask them!)
Do not run. We are your friends.
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