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Mordenkainan
Caldari Lone Gunmen
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Posted - 2007.02.03 01:15:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Mordenkainan on 03/02/2007 01:13:18 I'm sick and tired of this endless talk about proof.
So. Off my own back, and now doubt going to get me into trouble with my Alliance - here is the proof of Amarr organisations "attempting" to enslave Minmatar people - from Amarr space.
For the small minded - I suggest you carefully examine the wreck and then check its name.
undefined[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6426/20070203003530od4.jpg] |
Ikar Kaltin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.03 01:17:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ikar Kaltin on 03/02/2007 01:16:41 Edited by: Ikar Kaltin on 03/02/2007 01:15:00 Errr it would be helpful if your evidence was actually in a form that could be viewed...
EDIT: nevermind, problem with my viewer, fixed now.
Is there anyway to make this evidence clearer? I cannot get a clear focus on the wreck or any clear information. Thanks.
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Spiderweb
Caldari Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.03 01:26:00 -
[3]
Luckily my sister Niama was there, and assisted our brothers with her covert ops probe scanners, with liberating 500 slaves from those Coward impels that ran for the first Safespot they could allign to.
500 souls ... It makes me sick of the fate these people If we didnt find them in time. -----------------------------------------------
"For today, the arm of Unity clenched its fist..." |
Mordenkainan
Caldari Lone Gunmen
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Posted - 2007.02.03 01:38:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Mordenkainan on 03/02/2007 01:35:09 Working on it Ikar
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Mordenkainan
Caldari Lone Gunmen
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Posted - 2007.02.03 02:16:00 -
[5]
Original post updated with a better quality image - the second one to die attemtpting to slave people from Minmatar space..
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Tsurokigaarai
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Posted - 2007.02.03 02:20:00 -
[6]
Did they have those before or after they entered Minmitar space? Still illegal to bring them into Minmitar space however. ----- *results may vary*
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Mordenkainan
Caldari Lone Gunmen
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Posted - 2007.02.03 02:34:00 -
[7]
They were empty coming into Min space.... they certaintly weren't leaving..
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.03 03:17:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 03/02/2007 03:24:03 If they were breaking the treaties they were commiting unsanctioned illegal acts and you dealt with them accordingly. Its a very different thing to catch a criminal element in the act than it is to follow a mere rumor and commit acts of war.
Though, what this has to do with EMs illegal acts of war against IHR in Amarrian space is a question I don't see an answer to.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Arderich
Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen
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Posted - 2007.02.03 04:15:00 -
[9]
What treaties? You can not make treaties with something that doesn't exist. There is no such a thing called Minmatar Republic. Correct me if I am wrong but no Amarrian ever recognized the foolish idea of a Minmatar Republic. I admit there are lawless rebels inside amarrian territory. It is not only our God given right to enslave them, it is our duty.
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Agustus Caesar
Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.03 04:36:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 03/02/2007 04:37:22
Originally by: Arderich What treaties? You can not make treaties with something that doesn't exist. There is no such a thing called Minmatar Republic. Correct me if I am wrong but no Amarrian ever recognized the foolish idea of a Minmatar Republic. I admit there are lawless rebels inside amarrian territory. It is not only our God given right to enslave them, it is our duty.
Try your departed emperor for starters. To the best of my knowledge even the Amarrian paramilitaries have at least acknowledged the existence of the Republic, they certianly dont agree to it and they dont support it; but they aren't dumb enough to flat out ignore it or play it down as a few rebels in Amarrian space. Ignoring the existance of the Republic defys all logic, thats like denying the sun exists because it hurts your eyes when you look at it. Just what made you believe this absurd claim would find any basis in reality is beyond me, but I gave up trying to understand what motivates the mad and deranged long ago; I'll leave such matters to the medical authorities.
Back to the subject of the original post: Interesting evidence in deed, I wonder if this will change anything between EM and PIE though. No doubt IHR will just write this off as a rogue member or two slaving without the knowledge of the corprate leadership; but to most people it would seem that if IHR was abducting citizens of a sovreign nation now, its entirely possible that EM was correct in its initial claims that the slaves being transported by the destroyed IHR convoy were in fact abducted Republic citizens.
-Caesar ----------------------------- Unless otherwise stated my opinions don't represent that of my corporation and/or alliance, but unless your retarded, that should go without saying |
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.03 05:44:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 03/02/2007 05:40:44
Quote: What treaties? You can not make treaties with something that doesn't exist. There is no such a thing called Minmatar Republic. Correct me if I am wrong but no Amarrian ever recognized the foolish idea of a Minmatar Republic. I admit there are lawless rebels inside amarrian territory. It is not only our God given right to enslave them, it is our duty.
We signed the Yioul (sp) treaty. So did the rebellion.
Though, yes, the republic remains merely that, a rebellion against the rightful Imperial authorized authority of the Ammatar Mandate over the region.
However, in the interest of peace, treaties were signed of which the Matari rebellion was a part of along with the Gallente and Caldari that will be upheld as long as the God appointed Emperors will them to be held.
We can out wait the rebels, and if it will result in a more glorious eventual rule of God's Empire we will use the peaceful method rather than the violent one. After all, time is on the side of the faithful.
It is in the interest of these rebels to not force our hand towards the more violent options the way the forces like EM and U'K seek to do on a daily basis.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.03 08:49:00 -
[12]
I fail to see what this has to do with the illegal abduction of IHR property from Imperial space.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Arderich
Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen
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Posted - 2007.02.03 09:08:00 -
[13]
Agustus Caesar, I say Doriam was a fool by thinking loudly about recognizing the Minmatar Republic as a sovereign state. There is no thought crime in Amarr, though. I will not spread lies about him for things he had not done. Neither he, nor Heideran and of course not Khanid II ever recognized the Minmatar Republic as a sovereign state. They remain rebels in amarrian territory.
Gaven Lok'ri, I admit I don't know what the the Yoiul treaty contains. I assume it was about handing over certain privileges to Concord, an organisition I abhor. I do believe Concord strayed from its initial assignment - to be a neutral ground to find agreements. I assume the lawless rebels had to sign or were allowed to sign this treaty to ensure a minimum of safety for interstellar traderoutes. I assume Amarr granted them a limited time of a cease fire to consider a peaceful surrender. Nothing more. We do agree Amarr does not recognize the so called Minmatar Republic.
I very much doubt that other rules such as the abolishment of slavery are a part of any treaty Amarr ever signed. As far as I remember the so called Minmatar Republic introduced this rule a short while ago. Of course such a rule is meaningless as they have no right to make rules in amarrian territory.
If anyone knows details about this treaties I would like to see evidence or at least valid hints.
Rightful Imperial authorized authority of the Ammatar Mandate over the region?
What kind of nonsense is this? There were already established amarrian Holders claiming their territory and of course they have the right to get back what once was stolen from them. The Nefantar can dream about being the rulers over the other Minmatar tribes as long as they wish. I have no problem with it. But of course they must recognize that the Amarr are the true rulers over all Minmatar including the Nefantar. The fact remains that amarrian Holders are the owners of the territory we are talking about.
The Ammatar Mandate is of course amarrian territory, too. The Nefantar only have the 'mandate' to govern themselve. They are allowed to act semi-autonomous, as long as it is about to govern themselve, under amarrian supervision.
Don't get me wrong. The Nefantar have done the right thing after the initial waves of reclaiming the minmatar worlds. I personally do believe Heideran made a mistake when he allowed them to settle within amarrian territory, though. I do believe it would have been more effective to let them stay inside rebel territory. It's pointless to argue about it as it is too late. I certainly do not blame the Nefantar for this mistake.
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Mordenkainan
Caldari Lone Gunmen
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Posted - 2007.02.03 12:51:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Mordenkainan on 03/02/2007 12:48:09 As predicted, PIE state what has this to do with the IHR raids.
Surprise, surprise.
Last night two Amarrians, Fash Lizta and Abian Hina of "Imperial Transport" entered Republic space in empty haulers and were killed in high-sec Minmatar space attempting to run slaves out.
Maybe IHR are so low on personnel after their repeated drubbings they have contracted someone else? Maybe the Amarr are so brazen that they think they can break the Yulai (Yioul? can't remember) agreement openly.
Who knows.
What I do know is thats the not the first time i've shot and killed Amarrians trying to run slaves out of Minmatar space. As pointed out by Meklon in the other galnet communication, direct proof of the IHR engagements will be withheld to protect our sources in the Empire.
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Ikar Kaltin
Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.03 13:07:00 -
[15]
This is interesting, and faily disturbing evidence. However I have to question where it is these slaves come from. It requires a difficult procedure to turn non-slaves into slaves, one which to my knowledge is doable only in certin Amarr institutions. Either way this is still rather distressing, and I would be interested to see a response from IT.
However I must agree with PIE and ask what this has to do with the incident involving an Amarr ship in Amarr space. This is not proof that that ship was carrying republic citizens, although I hope this evidence and any other you posess was given to your government for them to press against these persons, as well as pressing customs authorities to how they did not pick this up.
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Gaius Kador
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.03 16:47:00 -
[16]
Oh look, another clerk waving his arms around in a nonsensical fashion, proclaiming immense outrage!
Fantastic proof, peon, but you still missed the target.
Slink back to your spreadsheets, there must be a debit somewhere you have missed. ----------------------------------------------
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Scagga Laebetrovo
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.02.03 18:34:00 -
[17]
Lies and fabrications.
The system indicated is clearly disputed Mandate space, as Ammatar forces actively patrol it. No true law prevails there as of yet, so there is no problem with the presence of adopted workers.
The only crime being committed is that these adopted workers are idling in space. The responsible holder should be fined for negligence and misappropriation of valuable resources.
Delictum 23216 Official forums |
Mordenkainan
Caldari Lone Gunmen
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Posted - 2007.02.03 21:58:00 -
[18]
Shock horror - Gaius and Scagga add nothing to any discussion - what a surprise.
Go back under your rocks worms. Leave discourse to your betters.
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.04 08:15:00 -
[19]
So Imperial Transport and Imperial Human Resources are now one and the same so that the wrong doings of one confirm rumors of the wrongdoings of the other?
Assuming of course that your interpretation of the events you show proof of is indeed correct, which seems a rather doubtful to me. I suspect you shot down criminal elements like the 'republic fleet' officers that so often are destroyed for raiding into Amarrian space who are in all actuality not what they claim to be.
As such good riddance, but dont try to tell me that the actions of an unnafiliated and probably false Amarrian organisation justify your rash terrorist actions against IHR and the Amarrian Empire.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation The Guardian Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.04 14:28:00 -
[20]
As I have been saying for a very long time, failure to recognise the treaty, no matter how much you don't like it, quite clearly voids your right to any benefits you receive under it - which includes your right to CONCORD protection, your right to demand restituation for lost ships or income (or indeed your right to any type of business-related protection) under the SCC, your right to be recognised as a legal corporation, alliance or faction, and your right to a fair trial under DED protection (thus, CONCORD ships, and indeed any other pilot may quite legally destroy you and your assets without repercussions - in fact, they may be entitled to a bounty payment from the DED).
Ironically (and in my opinion, quite hilariously), since EM, Ushra'Khan et al recognise the existence and legality of the Amarrian Empire, they are in fact not breaking the treaty. In fact, since Amarrians are abducting Minmatar Republic citizens from Minmatar sovreign space, EM et all are actually upholding various clauses of the treaty. Any Amarrian or Ammatari organisation refusing to recognise the existence and sovreignty of the Minmatar Republic is in violation of the treaty, void of protection and a terrorist organisation.
Basically, my point is, feel free to refuse to recognise the Yeoul Treaty and continue breaching it - but do so at your peril, as you may find yourself classified as terrorists alongside the Guristas, Blood Raiders and Serpentis. Good luck with that!
I would also like to call on a CRC representative to log a copy of this thread of correspondence and submit it to the DED immedietely - there are multiple self-admitted Amarrian/Ammatari breaches of the Yeoul Treaty, and, under its auspices, I hereby demand that they be stripped of assets and prosecuted.
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.04 22:51:00 -
[21]
I couldnt agree with this part more.
Quote: As I have been saying for a very long time, failure to recognise the treaty, no matter how much you don't like it, quite clearly voids your right to any benefits you receive under it - which includes your right to CONCORD protection, your right to demand restituation for lost ships or income (or indeed your right to any type of business-related protection) under the SCC, your right to be recognised as a legal corporation, alliance or faction, and your right to a fair trial under DED protection (thus, CONCORD ships, and indeed any other pilot may quite legally destroy you and your assets without repercussions - in fact, they may be entitled to a bounty payment from the DED).
Hence why I have no complaints about destroying this convoy that were either renegade or outright falsely representing themselves as IT.
I think, however, that attacking an Amarrian Convoy in Amarrian space on the breath of rumor alone breaches that treaty. In fact, it constitutes a formal act of war. Hence why in the interests of peace your organization is now considered an illegal entity, as if it was a legal supporter of the republic we would have to consider your organizations actions an attack by the republic on the Empire.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Mordenkainan
Caldari Lone Gunmen
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Posted - 2007.02.04 23:23:00 -
[22]
Electus Matari have direct evidence against IHR but, as previously stated, will not release that evidence to protect our sources in the Empire.
I just find it so convienent that IHR drop out of the picture with its previous slaving runs, and IT turn up in its place..
Both die doing what they try to do.
You can hammer on about what you believe to be true as much as you want ex-"Admiral". Hence one of the reasons we are so reluctant to try and prove what we know with our eyes..
You simply aren't interested in the truth. You simply don't care what we will say anyway.
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Amira Silvermist
The Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.02.05 00:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mordenkainan Electus Matari have direct evidence against IHR but, as previously stated, will not release that evidence to protect our sources in the Empire.
You simply aren't interested in the truth. You simply don't care what we will say anyway.
Anybody can say "we got proof but we will not show it!" You simply aren't interested in a peaceful solution...
Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0% |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.05 01:18:00 -
[24]
You committed acts of war against Amarr instead of presenting said proof. Even if you had it in the first place, which seems unlikely at best, that is enough to make you the criminals in this piece.
In fact, if you actually have the proof you claim to, you make the situation worse because you cannot even claim that you had no option other than war to protect your false ideals as if you had proof then there were valid legal means for you to bring the issue up with Amarr and instead you chose war.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
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