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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2031
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Posted - 2016.02.20 19:38:59 -
[1] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
It's absurdly high for a hauler that has fitted no cargo expanders at all!! How has this not been fixed yet?
Because it isn't broken. In fact, it's the purpose they were made for in the first place.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2033
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Posted - 2016.02.20 22:31:22 -
[2] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I'll show you an example change, and I'll go a step further and increase the percentage bonus from cargo expanders to retain some of the gap between a high cargo fit and a low cargo fit:
In that case, it's yet another unnecessary buff to EHP-fit freighters.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2044
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Posted - 2016.02.21 22:12:22 -
[3] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Because a nerus or an iteron V can haul whatever they want, not an extremely limited range of items.
It is called a tradeoff. The tradeoff is too strong. The Epithal carries nearly twice as much as the Iteron Mk V with full cargo fit; with no expanders it hauls nearly ten times as much.
Quantifying m3 with a very limited use-case as if it's just as good as general m3 is ridiculous, bordering on intellectually dishonest.
How about a weighted value? Epithal m3 * (% of typeIds epithal can carry) Vs. I5 m3 * (% of typeIds an I5 can carry).
Pretty sure the epithal needs a HUGE buff if we use that entirely arbitrary comparison instead of your entirely arbitrary comparison.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2045
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Posted - 2016.02.21 23:21:42 -
[4] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Yes, that was my point. Which you call me stupid for pointing out. The two ships are for different purposes, hence comparing the specialized cargo bay to the generic cargo bay is intellectually dishonest. So absolutely any comparison at all between them is intellectually dishonest? What if the Epithal's PI hold carried 5,000,000m3 of PI materials, and the Iteron Mk V had a base cargohold of 1000m3, and a max cargohold of ~5000m3. Would it then be intellectually dishonest to offer any comparison between the two?
Actually, yes, because they still have a qualitative difference that you're opting to ignore.
Both a 5MM m3 PI hauler and a 5K m3 max standard hauler would be bad, but neither would be bad as a consequence of the size disparity between them.
You may as well be comparing gas cloud harvester yield to strip miner yield. The two aren't really in competition with each other.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2047
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Posted - 2016.02.21 23:50:05 -
[5] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:You may as well be comparing gas cloud harvester yield to strip miner yield. The two aren't really in competition with each other. It would be more like comparing gas cloud harvester yield to mining laser yield, and the two are in comparison because the ships that use either one can use the other, and the stuff from it goes into the same hold. It would be wrong to say that the yield should necessarily be the same, but it would also be wrong to say that you cannot compare the two.
You absolutely can't in any meaningful way. "They go in the same hold" is an arbitrary, meaningless basis for comparison.
Both yields are balanced around the desirable level of supply for their respective commodities - NOT around each other.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2048
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Posted - 2016.02.22 01:39:35 -
[6] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
No, the yield sizes are balanced around hauling and storage. The level of supply is independent as the unit sizes can be adjusted.
Yield has nothing to do with how much tritanium builder bob can fit in his freighter to bring over to his assembly array. That's volume.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2048
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Posted - 2016.02.22 01:52:29 -
[7] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
That's what I'm saying!!
Yield isn't volume, so, no, it isn't what you're saying unless, in your brilliance, you've entirely conflated the two sides of the analogy.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2050
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Posted - 2016.02.22 01:59:37 -
[8] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
That's what I'm saying!!
Yield isn't volume, so, no, it isn't what you're saying unless, in your brilliance, you've entirely conflated the two sides of the analogy. I was trying to explain to you how you're conflating yield with volume, and you, in your apparent brilliance, responded by stating my point against you as if it was your point against me. YOU said that volume cannot be compared because yield is separate.
Let me explain to you how an analogy works.
The two things on the left side of the analogy are not actually LIKE the two things on the right side of an analogy.
Rather, Left1 and Left2 have a relationship to each other that is comparable to the relationship between R1 and R2.
In the same way that the amount an epithal can haul has FUCKALL to do with the amount a normal indy can haul, the yield of a gas cloud harvester has nothing to do with the yield of a mining laser. They are not balanced against each other. They are qualitatively different, even if they share superficial similarities.
Additionally, this little chestnut:
Quote:If they wanted to decrease the price of PI goods by making them easier to ship, they could and should simply decrease the volume of the PI goods, because then they'll fit into freighters more easily as well. If they didn't want to increase the capacity of storage units and launch pads, they could simply shrink their volume to match the shrunk volume of the goods going into them.
Who said they wanted to make them easier to move across the board?
They're already plenty easy to move with a freighter. That was never a problem for the type of logistics to which freighters are suited, and it still isn't.
Epithals are largely for intrasystem work. Mine flies between my POS and POCOs. It occasionally goes out through a static, goes no further than the first station, where its contents promptly become Some Courier Contractor's Problem.
Sure, you can haul your PI crap around the universe in an epithal if you want, but they're not actually large enough for that to be efficient. Mine wouldn't even leave my hole if I had a freighter-sized static.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2050
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Posted - 2016.02.22 02:12:38 -
[9] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Who said they wanted to make them easier to move across the board?
They're already plenty easy to move with a freighter. That was never a problem for the type of logistics to which freighters are suited, and it still isn't. I rest my case. You are failing to consider multiple factors in a more complex equation, and accusing me of doing the same.
Is this some sort of ironic performance art?
Lowering the volume, as you suggested, would have made them easier to haul around, period. Adding the epithal made it easier to deal with loading/unloading POCOs, without altering freighter-volume logistics.
Or, in other words, I just explained how the epithal addresses single factor in a more complex equation, relative to your solution of, "JUST CHANGE ALL THE VOLUMES".
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2051
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Posted - 2016.02.22 02:18:53 -
[10] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mine do go between systems, but they are travel fit--i.e. they are designed to let me get through a gate and past 1 maybe 2 ships (assuming no bubble/dictor).
That's more of an option for null-PIers, but I doubt you're going far, anyway, right?
I guess you could technically do multi-system WH PI but just thinking about it makes me want to shoot myself. 
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
2080
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Posted - 2016.02.24 18:23:11 -
[11] - Quote
Cristl wrote:
For me, i never consider the T1 haulers
You haven't lived until you've battle-Nereused.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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