Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33421
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 06:24:06 -
[361] - Quote
Uh. I launched a client and forgot about it, and left it under my browser. Then it was very odd to me that I could hear EVE sounds as my mouse moved around the screen. Apparently my mouse location was registering in the EVE client when it was hidden behind another window? Is this new? Am I going to be penalized for a false positive if I find myself in a similar scenario in the future?
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Shadoroth
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 06:35:45 -
[362] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Uh. I launched a client and forgot about it, and left it under my browser. Then it was very odd to me that I could hear EVE sounds as my mouse moved around the screen. Apparently my mouse location was registering in the EVE client when it was hidden behind another window? Is this new? Am I going to be penalized for a false positive if I find myself in a similar scenario in the future?
Don't lie. You were looking at dotlan you cheater. Enjoy your ban. |
Ravana 729
Imperial Guardians
22
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 08:18:29 -
[363] - Quote
"the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time."
This sentence makes me insane. Oh tell me again how you are not going to kill your player base by not doing something totally stupid. Looking forward to more obvious overlord lording over us press releases from communist central. |
Gaia Gaea
Loisish
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 08:37:14 -
[364] - Quote
I can position the Windows as I prefer. I can be on the second monitor everything that is forbidden for people with one monitor. Now I'm officially in a more privileged position than those with just one monitor. Thank you for that raiseth me above filthy rogue with one monitor! Love you CCP!
P. S. Dear CCP when, for example, put white people in a more privileged position than blacks please notify me in advance. I'm not a Nazi, but I do have such friends. Maybe I will be able to tell them the glad news for them. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
485
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 10:25:01 -
[365] - Quote
Well all i can say, is i will just unsub my last 2 accounts if this goes through/not clarified properly and bloody soon.
You *advertised* power of two and crap. I was up to 5 accounts, now two. Soon to be zero.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
AKA the scientist.
Death and Glory!
Well fun is also good.
|
tasman devil
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
71
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 12:10:58 -
[366] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Team Security comes with interesting news - as always! This time we clarify the use of third party tools and overlays. Additionally we have an ISK Buyer Amnesty available under certain conditions! Read more about these interesting news in the latest dev blog from Team Security Overlays, ISK Buyer Amnesty and Account Security Useless graph is useless...
Also: this DEV post doesn't make heads or tail for me.
Just give us a friggin' LIST of what programs are ALLOWED and then end of story. Any third party who would like to get on that list should mail CCP and detail their tool (and also give sample .exe or something). Someone in CCP looks into it, gives a green light, END. OF. STORY.
Does this mean 1 workforce has to be installed to monitor it? Probably, but that 1 person is still cheaper than maintaining the code or include the missing functionalities into the game... FTHU
I don't belive in reincarnation
I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
|
Memphis Baas
1209
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 13:30:33 -
[367] - Quote
Ravana 729 wrote:"players doing something is not something we plan to actively police at this time."
I agree with Ravana; what is the point of making a statement like that? The "at this time" is a threat, like we should be worried about whatever we're doing. As if it's illegal, just not yet.
A statement like that just causes stress and frustration, it has no other purpose. Instead of phrasing things like threats, just state what's illegal now, and at the point in time when you decide to no longer allow teamspeak overlays, POST A BLOG THEN. Don't threaten us with a future thing that may not even happen.
Because, we're not shooting monuments in Jita and causing you to fire another 20% of your employees... FOR NOW. |
Koenig Yazria
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 14:34:24 -
[368] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Ravana 729 wrote:"players doing something is not something we plan to actively police at this time." I agree with Ravana; what is the point of making a statement like that? The "at this time" is a threat, like we should be worried about whatever we're doing. As if it's illegal, just not yet. A statement like that just causes stress and frustration, it has no other purpose. Instead of phrasing things like threats, just state what's illegal now, and at the point in time when you decide to no longer allow teamspeak overlays, POST A BLOG THEN. Don't threaten us with a future thing that may not even happen. Because, we're not shooting monuments in Jita and causing you to fire another 20% of your employees... FOR NOW.
That threat (caused by poor wording I guess) makes me cringe. Imagine if you are forced to use Eve-Voice. Because, you know, third party software gives you an unfair advantage.
I say threat because I dare you to "just for jokes" say "I'm not going to bomb this plane , for now". I don't recommend doing it because like literally anyone will take it as a legit threat and not anything else. |
PI DATA
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 14:45:18 -
[369] - Quote
we don't get a response here? as a customer, spending my money into your business for years, i feel dumped. React on your customers needs and don't ignore them would be a option -_- |
|
CCP Grimmi
C C P C C P Alliance
95
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 15:40:36 -
[370] - Quote
Thanks everyone for your feedback!
Here are our comments to the points raised. We think this should answer most of the questions in the thread.
First, nothing has changed. This is not an update to our rules and policies but rather a clarification.
Dart Aurel wrote:There are 2 questions regarding windows switching policy points: 1. Is it prohibited to have 2 clients open and visible each on its own monitor? 2. I play EVE Online under Linux + Wine. Also I have tiled WM (xmonad) which allows to switch windows really fast (<50ms delay). Is this fair use or is it an exploit? 1. Surprise, we are not banning monitors. Assuming all EVE Clients are used as shipped by CCP then this is fine.
2. We do not see any issues with this. Switching between the EVE Client windows is part of regular and very welcome multiboxing. Being good at it is not a ban-able offense
Mail Lite wrote:Just wanted to check with you about 'Pirates Little Helper'.
It is a programme were you CTRL-A CTRL+C in local and it brings it up out of game, you get little icons which show what militia they are in, whether they are known to be link toons or whether they USE link toons. It also shows how many of each corp/alliance or in local without trolling though them.
It gives you instant access to their KB, their last KB activity and what their 3 favourite ships are. It also gives the average number of pilots on all of their killmails (good for identifying gangs/bait)
Can you confirm this is something that is ok to use? Applications/tools that do modify the client, do extract or try to interpret any information from within the clients window, do interact with the client (sending data/keystrokes to the client window), do inject anything into the clients memory or try to interact with the client in any way which cannot be achieved without using said applications/tools, are not allowed. As of today, the tool you are asking about, 'Pirates Little Helper', is a stand alone application which does not do any of the above to/with the EVE Client and we therefore do not see any reason to outlaw its usage.
Koz Katral wrote:...
But what about eve preview? in theory it should be ok because it doesn't isolate any individual elements and just displays the entire client window.
... Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, no matter how large or small they are scaled, like it is done by EVE-O Preview as of today, are fine with us. These overlays do not allow any direct interaction with the EVE Client and you have to bring the respective EVE Client to the front/put the window focus on it, in order to interact with it.
Nikolai Agnon wrote:... Summarized question: Am I allowed to have specific EVE Client windows pinned to all of my virtual desktops in order to, for example, keep the EVE Clients with my scout Characters in my line of sight at any point in time and no matter on which virtual desktop I am? ... Yes, absolutely.
Matthew Reddy wrote:Can i use ISBoxer for window management as long as i do not broadcast?. Can i get a clear answer on this. Yes, window management, of unmodified/untampered EVE Client windows, is allowed using ISBoxer or any other applications/tools.
Papa Django wrote:... A last question, is your detection methodology takes account about pvp or not ? I do not do pvp anymore. I do industry and trade. What kind of "unfair advantages" could i have in this case ? All activity within the game world is subject to our detection methodology. With all players on a single server and in direct competition with each other even your trade and industry activities are PvP. Any type of automation would give you unfair advantages, for example.
Knitram Relik wrote:"For your honesty and cooperation,-áwhich is sincerely appreciated,-áyou will not be banned. Other actions will be determined on a case by case basis."
I doubt you'll get many people to tell on themselves for RMT unless they are 110% guaranteed no ban, negative account balance, etc. I figure they've already taken the risk and gotten away with it (or so they think). Why take a chance and tell on themselves unless they KNOW nothing bad will come of it? We will not ban you if you come forward with useful and actionable information.
A Nony Mouse wrote:How will you differentiate between operating systems which allow overlay like behaviour for task switching and overlay tools. Windows 10 for example lets you see multiple windows in large enough thumbnails to read and monitor just by pressing Windows + Tab.
We do not necessarily need to differentiate between different systems. If the logs show activity that should not be possible through normal means, we will take action.
Rain6637 wrote:Say I have eight screens next to each other in a 2x4 grid, and several of them are scouts in neighboring systems, or cloaked on every hole in a wormhole chain. I don't use any client overlays because they're all side by side and I can see them just fine. Am I breaking rules about unfair advantages? We are not banning monitors. Assuming all EVE Clients are used as shipped by CCP then this is fine
Lucas Kell wrote:CCP As an example, this is something that is readily achievable with EVE-O preview. Would as setup like this be against the EULA? Having many clients visible at the same time is not something we intend to ban.
Also, a lot of people have asked for lists of allowed applications/tools.
We cannot sanction 3rd party programs that we do not create or have any control over. Period. We may tolerate the use of applications or tools that enhance your enjoyment of the game. This is done at our discretion and only as long as no unfair advantages are gained by you or others by the use of said a... |
|
|
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
807
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 15:55:37 -
[371] - Quote
I don't have any questions but I do really appreciate the clarity in that mega-response to questions. |
lost packet
Alpha Flight Almost Broken
93
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 15:59:24 -
[372] - Quote
CCP Grimmi wrote:Thanks everyone for your feedback! Here are our comments to the points raised. We think this should answer most of the questions in the thread. First, nothing has changed. This is not an update to our rules and policies but rather a clarification. Matthew Reddy wrote:Can i use ISBoxer for window management as long as i do not broadcast?. Can i get a clear answer on this. Yes, window management, of unmodified/untampered EVE Client windows, is allowed using ISBoxer or any other applications/tools.
Good enough for my concerns, thank you very much for providing this particular clarification. +1
Alpha Flight are recruiting pilots | Almost Broken are recruiting corporations
|
Niraia
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
404
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:03:35 -
[373] - Quote
Thanks GÖÑ
GÖÑ
|
Tom Uchonela
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:05:33 -
[374] - Quote
Thank you for the clarification CCP Grimmi! |
Dave Stark
7879
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:17:27 -
[375] - Quote
just out of curiosity. what are you trying to achieve by banning overlays?
whether i look 1 inch to the left at an overview on an overlay, or 4 inches to my left at a totally separate instance of the game - i'm still getting real time intel from another client. which was your dev blog example of an "unfair advantage". it's either unfair, or it isn't, you seem to have only outlawed it in certain cases.
it's just very difficult to see what you're trying to achieve with such a contradictory policy. it seems to make very little sense. |
Annexe
I N E X T R E M I S Tactical Narcotics Team
25
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:25:13 -
[376] - Quote
Do these new policies include key macros? ie: using 1 key to trigger multiple keys.
And how does CCP intend on enforcing these policies without being able to monitor the users actions first hand?
Annexe
ITAI - VIP
"i will pop your wreck with faction loot"
|
Robnik Charante
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
22
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:28:08 -
[377] - Quote
Thank you, based CCP Grimmi. I was very concerned with the language of the policy as-written but your clarifications have allayed my concerns. I do wish you had a 3rd party whitelist, but as long as you are willing to provide clarifications about acceptable use then I see no issue. Thanks again. \o/ |
Red Single
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:28:25 -
[378] - Quote
Quote:Applications/tools that do modify the client, do extract or try to interpret any information from within the clients window, do interact with the client (sending data/keystrokes to the client window), do inject anything into the clients memory or try to interact with the client in any way which cannot be achieved without using said applications/tools, are not allowed.
Does this include programs that allow pass though clicks/keypress?
|
Fletchter
Dropbears Anonymous Friendly Probes
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:37:51 -
[379] - Quote
The clarification is good.
But can we get a 'Why' explanation in regards to the changes with cut up windows/overlay? Are the people dual boxing logi the problem? The solo Miner/Incursion fleet guys? |
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Fidelas Constans
590
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:46:37 -
[380] - Quote
Annexe wrote:Do these new policies include key macros? ie: using 1 key to trigger multiple keys.
And how does CCP intend on enforcing these policies without being able to monitor the users actions first hand?
there are no new policies, only clarification.
key macro (multiple action via single key) is a no-no since like forever
As for the second question CCP will never tell You how they detection software works, but do read on anomalies detection a little.
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
|
|
Praal
Bearded BattleBears I N F A M O U S
22
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:47:23 -
[381] - Quote
Thank you for your answers! A few follow-ups
- One part of multiboxing window management is often removing the window border of a client (borderless window). Is this allowed as window management or banned as a modification of the client?
- Can you confirm if the non-gameplay uses of broadcasting specifically allowed In this dev post (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571) are still allowed now?
- Is your detection system able to differentiate between the availability / use of forbidden practices on the system (for other apps / games) and their use with the EVE client. For example:
- I have ISBoxer. I use it for window management only with EVE. I use it for window management and broadcasting with EverQuest (not at the same time). Are you able to recognize that my broadcasting config applies to a different game and the EVE client is not receiving / sending broadcasts?
- I have AutoHotkey and use it so speed-up certain work-related taks. If I have EVE running (but not being the focus window) and I use a hotkey which sends multiple keystrokes to a non-EVE app (say a telnet client), are you able to recognize that the 1-press-many-actions that happened did not involve the EVE client?
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7358
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:47:31 -
[382] - Quote
Thanks Grimmi
CCP Grimmi wrote:Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, no matter how large or small they are scaled, like it is done by EVE-O Preview as of today, are fine with us. These overlays do not allow any direct interaction with the EVE Client and you have to bring the respective EVE Client to the front/put the window focus on it, in order to interact with it. Just to clarify on this note, cutting up a windows is not allowed as you've put here, it has to be a full unchanged window, but what about if people layer their windows in such a way that only the relevant part of each is displayed? As I pointed out in a previous post, this is OK, but this is not OK. It seems like an entirely ridiculous distinction. I can understand why disallowing the ability to click through on those segments of windows would be impossible, but for viewing only, people will be able to see parts of inactive windows simply by layout alone, and the worry people have is that by doing it they will get banned as there's no way to really prove they weren't using a cut out overview/ship status vs layered windows (or window previews).
You see, this:CCP Grimmi wrote:We do not necessarily need to differentiate between different systems. If the logs show activity that should not be possible through normal means, we will take action. Is the most important part to me, ensuring that there's enough of a distinction to ensure people aren't just being banned because they are cleverly using their screen/window management tools and window previews. With EVE-O preview (and now with windows 10 features alone) people can achieve a pretty high level of efficiency, certainly what would be considered an advantage over those that don't use it (which is why people bother to use it in the first place). I think a lot of people just want to be assured that they won't suddenly be banned because they've become "too efficient" while they still follow the rules completely. Because let's face it, being able to rapidly switch between 16 clients certainly would achieve things that aren't achievable "through normal means".
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Fidelas Constans
590
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:49:04 -
[383] - Quote
Praal wrote:Thank you for your answers! A few follow-ups
- One part of multiboxing window management is often removing the window border of a client (borderless window). Is this allowed as window management or banned as a modification of the client?
- Can you confirm if the non-gameplay uses of broadcasting specifically allowed In this dev post (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571) are still allowed now?
- Is your detection system able to differentiate between the availability / use of forbidden practices on the system (for other apps / games) and their use with the EVE client. For example:
- I have ISBoxer. I use it for window management only with EVE. I use it for window management and broadcasting with EverQuest (not at the same time). Are you able to recognize that my broadcasting config applies to a different game and the EVE client is not receiving / sending broadcasts?
- I have AutoHotkey and use it so speed-up certain work-related taks. If I have EVE running (but not being the focus window) and I use a hotkey which sends multiple keystrokes to a non-EVE app (say a telnet client), are you able to recognize that the 1-press-many-actions that happened did not involve the EVE client?
CCP does not minitor app You run, they just see keystrokes send to client faster than humanly possible, over and over and ban :)
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
|
Fifth Blade
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
70
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:49:50 -
[384] - Quote
CCP Grimmi wrote: Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, no matter how large or small they are scaled, like it is done by EVE-O Preview as of today, are fine with us. These overlays do not allow any direct interaction with the EVE Client and you have to bring the respective EVE Client to the front/put the window focus on it, in order to interact with it.
What about applications which display only a portion of the eve client in preview mode, such as ontopreplica showing the local user list from a scout?
This is a major use-case for a lot of people. |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:54:42 -
[385] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Uh. I launched a client and forgot about it, and left it under my browser. Then it was very odd to me that I could hear EVE sounds as my mouse moved around the screen. Apparently my mouse location was registering in the EVE client when it was hidden behind another window? Is this new? Am I going to be penalized for a false positive if I find myself in a similar scenario in the future? Whenever I have multiple eve clients open (just regular windowed mode) I have noticed that non focused clients will react to mouse movements on the top/focused client. Like when my fleet is docked and I have the clients set to show who else is docked. While I move the mouse around on the top/focused client I can see names being highlighted on the other clients that are beneath. That has always freaked me out. |
Praal
Bearded BattleBears I N F A M O U S
22
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:56:32 -
[386] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:CCP does not minitor app You run, they just see keystrokes send to client faster than humanly possible, over and over and ban :) I hope so, but would be good to have confirmation that they can (and do) differentiate between key bursts sent to the EVE client, vs key bursts to other applications on the same system while the EVE client is open.
|
Koenig Yazria
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
17
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:57:23 -
[387] - Quote
Thank you for your clarification.
There are some fringe cases, but I guess you have answered most of the possible cases. |
Tavion Aksmis
EVE University Ivy League
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 16:59:43 -
[388] - Quote
Rejoice PLH wont get you banned
Also good to know you are not banning monitors, LOL |
Chalithra Lathar
Rhongomiant Legion Industries The Explicit Alliance
41
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 17:16:40 -
[389] - Quote
tl;dr its nothing |
Helios Anduath
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
66
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 17:22:13 -
[390] - Quote
Fifth Blade wrote:CCP Grimmi wrote: Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, no matter how large or small they are scaled, like it is done by EVE-O Preview as of today, are fine with us. These overlays do not allow any direct interaction with the EVE Client and you have to bring the respective EVE Client to the front/put the window focus on it, in order to interact with it.
What about applications which display only a portion of the eve client in preview mode, such as ontopreplica showing the local user list from a scout? This is a major use-case for a lot of people.
Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, << those words answer your question. Chopped up windows = not OK. Full client = OK. This ties into the original blog where it said elements. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |