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T2 Ship Skill Requirements Reversed from T1 and 3. Swap them.

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Soldarius O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore 1473	Posted - 2016.02.24 17:04:03 - [1] - Quote Today, after 6+ years in the game, I noticed that the skill requirements for T2 ships are reverse from every other ship in the game. T2 ship skills (blops/recon/etc) are Willpower and Perception. Everything else is Perception and Willpower. Swapping the primary and secondary skill requirements results in a 10% reduction in SP gained for those skills vs all other ship skills. Why is this a thing? There is no reason for it. It makes no sense. And people lose out on SP because of it. Swap them. There is no reason at all for T2 to be different than everything else. I wasted a bonus remap because of this. So I'm a little salty. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 2076	Posted - 2016.02.24 17:07:58 - [2] - Quote Kindly explain why you are entitled to max SP/hr at all times. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 9631	Posted - 2016.02.24 17:23:14 - [3] - Quote Ooooooo... you lose out on a whopping ~100k skillpoints over the course of a year... oooooo... That's like... what? 5 days? Seriously? You are complaining about 5 extra days of training out of 365.25 days? Also... Quote: Kindly explain why you are entitled to max SP/hr at all times. This. And before you say, "I pay a monthly sub!" I will point out that your subscription only grants access to CCP's server. It does not entitle you to skillpoints. How did you Veterans start? "Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
Soldarius O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore 1473	Posted - 2016.02.24 17:24:52 - [4] - Quote This isn't about entitlement. Holy crap. This is about one set of skills being different than all the others within the same category. It makes no sense. I wonder how many other people got screwed by this. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 14321	Posted - 2016.02.24 17:28:22 - [5] - Quote Soldarius wrote: It makes no sense. its ccp, dont question the madness Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 2078	Posted - 2016.02.24 17:35:13 - [6] - Quote Soldarius wrote: This isn't about entitlement... I wonder how many other people got screwed by this. Zero. The answer is zero. Absolutely nobody has ever been screwed by this. And, incidentally, when you suggest that you have been "screwed" it is, by definition, about entitlement. Additionally, this is not unique. There are skills with different attribute layouts in Engineering (WU/AWU, notably, retain the perc/willpower mapping for a weapon skill), Navigation (cyno/jump portals), neural enhancement, planet management, Production, resource processing, Subsystems, and Trade. As always, if you feel you have been deprived of SPs that are rightfully yours, I will generously offer to sell you skill injectors until you feel you have been made whole. For a limited time, I will also include a free set of T2 armor hardeners with every order, so you may HTFU. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3118	Posted - 2016.02.24 17:36:36 - [7] - Quote Players losing out on sp is not as tragic as you're trying to make out, it's difficult to train every skill at max speed. Attributes look like they are on their way out anyways. But until then, you should read up on things before you do them. Save you a lot of grief. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Soldarius O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore 1473	Posted - 2016.02.24 17:42:20 - [8] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Players losing out on sp is not as tragic as you're trying to make out, it's difficult to train every skill at max speed. Attributes look like they are on their way out anyways. But until then, you should read up on things before you do them. Save you a lot of grief. I did. It is easy to train every skill at max speed because of remaps. Every skill I clicked on said Perception + Willpower. So I remaped to those. Lo and behold, a special subcategory of those skills were different. There was no reason to believe the T2 ship skills would be different than the myriad of others in the Spaceship Command tree. I lost out on that 10% and a bonus remap that I otherwise would not have done. I'm posting on this because what CCP has done with those skills makes no sense and is not consistent with the rest of the skill tree. It should be changed. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 463	Posted - 2016.02.24 17:50:32 - [9] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Attributes look like they are on their way out anyways. Came here to say that, but he beat me to it. I wish CCP wouldn't get rid of attributes because I feel they work well with the general theme of EvE. But I have to recognize that there's writing on the wall. When you can simply bypass attributes altogether via skill injectors, it means CCP probably doesn't want attributes around too much longer. I think attributes would have been better received by the newer people if CCP had simply integrated an EVEMON-type tool with the game. For any game even half as complex as EvE, a tool to navigate a critical function such as that would have been boxed with the 1.0 release. We wouldn't have threads like this where people are surprised by training requirements because the tool would have pointed it out right there in their skill plan. But hey, it's easier to remove a system rather than fix it. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 1064	Posted - 2016.02.24 18:08:49 - [10] - Quote Awww...not getting the maximum return on your SPs for your farming SP alt? #entitlement

FT Diomedes The Graduates 2288	Posted - 2016.02.24 18:38:08 - [11] - Quote It took you six years to notice this? It was clearly an intentional decision by CCP to do it this way. Additionally, attributes appear to be on their way to a much-deserved demise, so your idea is pointless and unnecessary. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1099	Posted - 2016.02.24 18:48:44 - [12] - Quote Soldarius wrote: This isn't about entitlement. Holy crap. This is about one set of skills being different than all the others within the same category. It makes no sense. I wonder how many other people got screwed by this. I did and I saw that a while before you did and I said to myself, "so what?" Back then there wasn't even remapping for convenince or paying to win or whatever other pile of pooh they come up with next. I did however train every single learning skill and adavnced learning skill to the magic level V instead to have an edge. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1857	Posted - 2016.02.24 18:50:08 - [13] - Quote One time, going to band camp, I got pulled over for speeding. The officer pointed out that the speed limit had always been 45, but I was going 55. So I said.... "But officer, I've been driving down this road for 6 years and I didn't notice that sign that is in plain view for all to see" He was cool, not only did he throw the ticket away immediately, he also gave me a bag of free donuts for each year I hadn't noticed. I was so happy. The world made sense. It was just..... good.
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 2085	Posted - 2016.02.24 18:51:52 - [14] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Soldarius wrote: This isn't about entitlement. Holy crap. This is about one set of skills being different than all the others within the same category. It makes no sense. I wonder how many other people got screwed by this. I did and I saw that a while before you did and I said to myself, "so what?" Back then there wasn't even remapping for convenince or paying to win or whatever other pile of pooh they come up with next. I did however train every single learning skill and adavnced learning skill to the magic level V instead to have an edge. Seriously. My first character was a Ni Kunni. Complaints about attributes are adorably quaint. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3119	Posted - 2016.02.24 19:15:10 - [15] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Players losing out on sp is not as tragic as you're trying to make out, it's difficult to train every skill at max speed. Attributes look like they are on their way out anyways. But until then, you should read up on things before you do them. Save you a lot of grief. I did. It is easy to train every skill at max speed because of remaps. Every skill I clicked on said Perception + Willpower. So I remaped to those. Lo and behold, a special subcategory of those skills were different. There was no reason to believe the T2 ship skills would be different than the myriad of others in the Spaceship Command tree. I lost out on that 10% and a bonus remap that I otherwise would not have done. I'm posting on this because what CCP has done with those skills makes no sense and is not consistent with the rest of the skill tree. It should be changed. So when you started out you had a choice of training drones, ship skills, navigation skills, or core skills and only 2 remaps. Yeah you've trained every skill at max speed. way to save yourself from looking stupid. At the end of the day, you've never clicked show info on any t2 skill in 6 years. That's your own dumbass fault. Ive never known anyone to not realise this and i myself looked this up before i had started the game. Whilst i dont expect you to plan things as much as i do, you should look this stuff up before injecting the skill surely. When attributes are going to be removed why even bother with this change? What about all the players who have remapped into Willpower because they were smart enough to look up the skill before training it? Why not just swallow what pride you have left, admit YOU ****** up, no one else, and accept you're only losing a tiny amount of sp/hour anyways. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2625	Posted - 2016.02.24 19:49:08 - [16] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: Awww...not getting the maximum return on your SPs for your farming SP alt? #entitlement Why the hell would you train anything T2 for SP farming when gunnery and T1 ships are all on the exact same remap? It's not like you need that many millions of SP before you can drain some skill goo out of that e-brain. This is obviously not about SP farming but about "I burned a remap and it's not 100% efficient".
Xe'Cara'eos A Big Enough Lever 408	Posted - 2016.02.24 21:30:17 - [17] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Today, after 6+ years in the game, I noticed that the skill requirements for T2 ships are reverse from every other ship in the game. T2 ship skills (blops/recon/etc) are Willpower and Perception. Everything else is Perception and Willpower. Swapping the primary and secondary skill requirements results in a 10% reduction in SP gained for those skills vs all other ship skills. Why is this a thing? There is no reason for it. It makes no sense. And people lose out on SP because of it. Swap them. There is no reason at all for T2 to be different than everything else. I wasted a bonus remap because of this. So I'm a little salty. No - because this deprives smart players (like myself who is currently on a Wil/Per map and training all the T2 ship skills to V) of their rewards for being/playing smart and not FOTM'ing For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2340	Posted - 2016.02.24 21:34:57 - [18] - Quote Why do people care about that stuff at all in the first place? I have remapped the last time in very early 2012 to 27 Perc/ 21 Mem and have not bothered with a remap ever since, training even leadership skills with that attribute setup. I get my skills done, I progress all the time, I accumulate tons of SP per month in all kinds of skills. I do not see any problem whatsoever with neither what the OP encountered nor the general complaining about attributes. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3005	Posted - 2016.02.24 23:11:59 - [19] - Quote Yet again, time for CCP to just delete attributes all together and let the Implant market fall where it will (Comp for existing items obviously)
Barrett Fruitcake State War Academy Caldari State 55	Posted - 2016.02.25 02:47:43 - [20] - Quote Soldarius wrote: This isn't about entitlement. Holy crap. This is about one set of skills being different than all the others within the same category. It makes no sense. I wonder how many other people got screwed by this. It was by design.

Amarisen Gream Divine Demise Apocalypse Now. 211	Posted - 2016.02.25 07:19:14 - [21] - Quote I would rather have an option to filter skills by their attribute types - at least then I can make plans that don't take hours to figure out. "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1 DIDE- is open to new members
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1866	Posted - 2016.02.25 18:46:25 - [22] - Quote Barrett Fruitcake wrote: Soldarius wrote: This isn't about entitlement. Holy crap. This is about one set of skills being different than all the others within the same category. It makes no sense. I wonder how many other people got screwed by this. It was by design. I think he actually believes he 'got screwed'. I doubt he'll ever understand that he's the one who made a wrong assumption (for 6 years - LOL) and is dealing with the consequences. He's clearly a victim, but I'm pretty sure the crime was committed before he subscribed to eve
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1099	Posted - 2016.02.25 21:12:22 - [23] - Quote Amarisen Gream wrote: I would rather have an option to filter skills by their attribute types - at least then I can make plans that don't take hours to figure out. EVEmon will tell you, dear. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Soldarius O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore 1475	Posted - 2016.02.26 19:09:39 - [24] - Quote The hatred and personal attacks being posted in this thread are amazing. In case you wonder why its so hard to retain new players, this is why. What's worse is that hateful and derisive comments do nothing but alienate yourself from other players. Prior to the most recent adjustment of skill groups, all skills except the T2 ship categories had the same attribute requirements. I'm perfectly aware of the changes that were made and in response to this knowledge clicked on over a dozen ship skills to make damn sure they were all the the same. Still not good enough apparently. I never said the attribute requirements were not by design. I know damn well it was. All I'm saying is it is terrible design and should be changed. And not one comment in this entire thread has addressed that. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2927	Posted - 2016.02.27 02:57:42 - [25] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Swapping the primary and secondary skill requirements results in a 10% reduction in SP gained for those skills You are aware you can remap to Willpower, right? FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post." Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Lord Vyper Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 16	Posted - 2016.02.27 08:10:28 - [26] - Quote Deleted
Lord Vyper Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 16	Posted - 2016.02.27 08:11:15 - [27] - Quote Not really surprised to see a bunch of vets crap all over someone else's opinion because it differs from theirs. (OMG he's a Goon blah blah blah) I was many things before that. I agree as a well educated game designer that this mechanic doesn't seem to have a logical purpose except to slow down a players progression. Hopefully they align the requirements in a more logical pattern and/or remove attributes all together as they really only seem to promote the sales of implants and level of undue complexity without adding any gameplay. Hopefully when they remove attributes than can also repurpose the existing Implants for something amazing that will actually open up gameplay choices and add to tactical decisions one makes prior to an engagement be it PVE or PVP orientation. Ideas for spit balling.... None of these have been thought thru just off the top of my head -Nullify wormhole effects - Reduction to security status loss -Increase loot range -Do Barrel rolls I'm sure the player base can give actual useful suggestions for Implants once the time comes


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