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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
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Posted - 2016.02.25 13:15:50 -
[1] - Quote
So the idea behind this proposal is simple, create Cargo Containers that immune to all Cargo Scanning modules.
Of course there needs to be trade offs. As we should all know a Giant Cargo Container which takes up 3000 m3 Of cargo hold space can actually hold 3900 m3. Explain that one, anyway. The T2 versions would have a role bonus which makes them immune to all scanning. It would come with a loss of interior volume, so a 3000 m3 Container would have a 3000 m3 capacity.
Of course build costs would be higher than T1 and given the fact you kinda loose usable volume rather than gain it, the effects would not minimize the importance of Blockade Runners which enjoy that bonus and others regardless of cargo type.
Stats... Ish, up for discussion:
Giant Shielded Container
Volume: 3000 m3 Capacity: 3000 m3 Structure HP: 400000 HP Ish. Radius: 3000 m
Role Bonus: Immune to all Cargo Scanners
Requirements: Archoring Level 5
Smaller variants would follow similar trend.
So some of you all are probably asking why is this important for the game. Simply put it, it adds variety of choices, it has a practical function for haulers in high sec, and it could be used to create unpredictability for bootable containers in various mission areas, combat, data, and relic sites. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
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Posted - 2016.02.25 13:16:09 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
284
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Posted - 2016.02.25 13:41:15 -
[3] - Quote
I'd quickly raise the question, would you really want a container in your ship that is specifically for carrying high value goods? When they scan your ship and see a t2 can, "pop it" is gonna be their first response.
I'm not totally against the idea, it has it's own risks built in really. but as for stats I'd be expecting more like 10,000m3 hold space for about 1000m3 "masked space."
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
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Posted - 2016.02.25 15:09:59 -
[4] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:I'd quickly raise the question, would you really want a container in your ship that is specifically for carrying high value goods? When they scan your ship and see a t2 can, "pop it" is gonna be their first response.
I'm not totally against the idea, it has it's own risks built in really. but as for stats I'd be expecting more like 10,000m3 hold space for about 1000m3 "masked space."
That thought came to my mind too.
It could make for some good counter ganking fun, especially if someone gives out false info and gets ganked on purpose. Maybe a revenge tactic. Someone frequently taking losses could do dry runs and cost the attacker a Tornado but only loose an empty Badger, then the kill mail comes out and look at that, nothing really lost.
The idea can be practical for shipping, but yes it could indicate higher value loot, or not. Unpredictability, a central part of EVE.
As for the cargo hold m3 vs capacity m3 I'm okay with loosing since interior space, but ideally, still using my example "Giant Shield Container" it should be larger enough to haul a packaged frigate.
I'll leave actually volumes up for later discussion, just know I'm opposed to that idea as long as it's reasonable. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2630
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Posted - 2016.02.25 15:29:44 -
[5] - Quote
Isn't there a ship that does exactly that already? |
Iain Cariaba
2704
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Posted - 2016.02.25 15:34:44 -
[6] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Isn't there a ship that does exactly that already? It's called a Blockade Runner, or BR for short.
To OP, every ganker I know pops every BR they can simply because they don't know what's in them, and they want to know. Want to try and guess what'll happen to ships carrying the can you suggest?
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1616
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Posted - 2016.02.25 16:03:37 -
[7] - Quote
trust me the last thing you want is to carry a cargo container that cant be scanned
Citadel worm hole tax
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
108
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Posted - 2016.02.25 16:44:46 -
[8] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:As we should all know a Giant Cargo Container which takes up 3000 m3 Of cargo hold space can actually hold 3900 m3. Explain that one, anyway https://archive.org/stream/arxiv-0904.1190/0904.1190_djvu.txt
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1862
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Posted - 2016.02.25 16:55:13 -
[9] - Quote
I like this idea. I'm also working on a T3 cargo scanner that can view into T2 containers AND blockade runners.
I'm also working on a T3 cargo container that has modes. 1 - privacy mode - smaller cargo space but immune to all scanners (including T3 cargo scanners) 2 - cornucopia mode - capacity goes up 347%, but can be scanned and has reduced EHP 3 - armadillo mode - scannable w/ a slightly reduced capacity but 743% more EHP (and gains +1 low slots to fit a special 0 cpu / 1 grid damage control that only fits on T3 cargo containers.
Drifters would drop the BPC for the T3 cargo containers. They would require PI and sleeper loot to construct them. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
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Posted - 2016.02.25 17:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well as I said, if enough people use them then it would be like watering down the mix. Plus not every BR gets shot right off best for being a BR, not even in Jita.
I sit on the undock in Jita, trust me being a BR doesn't automatically make you a target, and off it does ten great 8 mil Isk Thrashed for a Rookie Ship with nothing in it? Empty Badger traded for a Tornado? If that's all it takes I'll run those kind of ships for the hell of it. I'll be laughing at the money going siren the drain for the gankers.
Banking shouldn't be point and shoot, come on make it a little more changing than that. |
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
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Posted - 2016.02.25 17:02:06 -
[11] - Quote
Fhffcvvhdfv |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 17:03:37 -
[12] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I like this idea. I'm also working on a T3 cargo scanner that can view into T2 containers AND blockade runners.
I'm also working on a T3 cargo container that has modes. 1 - privacy mode - smaller cargo space but immune to all scanners (including T3 cargo scanners) 2 - cornucopia mode - capacity goes up 347%, but can be scanned and has reduced EHP 3 - armadillo mode - scannable w/ a slightly reduced capacity but 743% more EHP (and gains +1 low slots to fit a special 0 cpu / 1 grid damage control that only fits on T3 cargo containers.
Drifters would drop the BPC for the T3 cargo containers. They would require PI and sleeper loot to construct them.
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2979
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Posted - 2016.02.25 17:11:54 -
[13] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:I'd quickly raise the question, would you really want a container in your ship that is specifically for carrying high value goods? When they scan your ship and see a t2 can, "pop it" is gonna be their first response.
I'm not totally against the idea, it has it's own risks built in really. but as for stats I'd be expecting more like 10,000m3 hold space for about 1000m3 "masked space." Blockade runners have the same ability. It's always a gamble. If too many people use them then it becomes a worthless assumption. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 17:28:32 -
[14] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Moonlit Raid wrote:I'd quickly raise the question, would you really want a container in your ship that is specifically for carrying high value goods? When they scan your ship and see a t2 can, "pop it" is gonna be their first response.
I'm not totally against the idea, it has it's own risks built in really. but as for stats I'd be expecting more like 10,000m3 hold space for about 1000m3 "masked space." Blockade runners have the same ability. It's always a gamble. If too many people use them then it becomes a worthless assumption.
Exactly! You can't just go to Jita and shoot every Industrial that moves.
Then we'll still have rando noobs that don't use them and get ganked anyway, or gankers can use profiling and insider info to attack specific targets much the way they always have.
It's not a huge change, but it does mean more options for haulers, and it adds a level of complexity to the game for gankers. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 17:35:40 -
[15] - Quote
It's worth noting I never meantiond price for these, that can be something determined later too help keep these things from become too over used.
The affect also only applies to items placed inside the container, not the whole ship. I think everyone got that.. Right? And I mean I'm not saying make these containers freight sized so you can move POSes in them. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1862
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Posted - 2016.02.25 18:20:13 -
[16] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:It's worth noting I never meantioned price for these, that can be something determined later too help keep these things from become too over used.
The affect also only applies to items placed inside the container, not the whole ship. I think everyone got that.. Right? And I mean I'm not saying make these containers freight sized so you can move POSes in them.
Price isn't really a limiting factor for like 90% of eve. |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
80
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 18:46:29 -
[17] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:It's worth noting I never meantioned price for these, that can be something determined later too help keep these things from become too over used.
The affect also only applies to items placed inside the container, not the whole ship. I think everyone got that.. Right? And I mean I'm not saying make these containers freight sized so you can move POSes in them. Price isn't really a limiting factor for like 90% of eve.
Eh, this is true. Just a thought. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
1099
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Posted - 2016.02.25 18:47:29 -
[18] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Isn't there a ship that does exactly that already? It's called a Blockade Runner, or BR for short. To OP, every ganker I know pops every BR they can simply because they don't know what's in them, and they want to know. Want to try and guess what'll happen to ships carrying the can you suggest?
but I usually fly them empty. I just fly them because I use them a shuttle to go places.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1866
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 18:49:55 -
[19] - Quote
At the end of the day, all my silliness aside - I don't think there is really a need for your idea. BR and JF have secure hauling covered. Passive nighthawk is a great auto pilot hauler of valuables. Passive rattler is even better. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14372
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 18:56:01 -
[20] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I like this idea. I'm also working on a T3 cargo scanner that can view into T2 containers AND blockade runners.
I'm also working on a T3 cargo container that has modes. 1 - privacy mode - smaller cargo space but immune to all scanners (including T3 cargo scanners) 2 - cornucopia mode - capacity goes up 347%, but can be scanned and has reduced EHP 3 - armadillo mode - scannable w/ a slightly reduced capacity but 743% more EHP (and gains +1 low slots to fit a special 0 cpu / 1 grid damage control that only fits on T3 cargo containers.
Drifters would drop the BPC for the T3 cargo containers. They would require PI and sleeper loot to construct them. the t3cc would destroy the small goods container meta, i give it a week or two and these things will be everywhere.
and then where will we be, T3CC'S ONLINE THATS WHERE!
#not3ccmeta
Better the Devil you know.
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
81
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Posted - 2016.02.25 20:08:39 -
[21] - Quote
Thank you all for the constructive feedback, btw!
If be curious to see how these would pan out if something like this were to be introduced. Some good points, logical ones too have been made. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
943
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Posted - 2016.02.26 11:20:44 -
[22] - Quote
There need to be two limits on such a container: Ship carrying it has no resists. Container costs 200m. Container shows up on scan. You can't cloak with the container aboard and your align is slowed by 40%.
In short, no, use BRs or double wraps. Also prepare to get ganked by everyone.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
411
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Posted - 2016.02.26 11:43:39 -
[23] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:There need to be two limits on such a container: Ship carrying it has no resists. Container costs 200m. Container shows up on scan. You can't cloak with the container aboard and your align is slowed by 40%.
In short, no, use BRs or double wraps. Also prepare to get ganked by everyone.
explain why this should be so? coz it looks to me like you're trying to take away the entire point of these cans..... these containers would come from sleeper goods so depending on how big the maker's bill is - 20m-200m doesn't seem like an outrageous price tag, but why the other penalties?
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
81
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Posted - 2016.02.26 12:39:13 -
[24] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:There need to be two limits on such a container: Ship carrying it has no resists. Container costs 200m. Container shows up on scan. You can't cloak with the container aboard and your align is slowed by 40%.
In short, no, use BRs or double wraps. Also prepare to get ganked by everyone.
Container shows up on scan.
This I'll got along with of course, I think the rest is a bit heavy handed.
The can shouldn't really affect the ship carrying, unless you want to say the shielding on the can is made of Lead, then maybe there can be a slight inertia reduction. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1867
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Posted - 2016.02.26 15:41:26 -
[25] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:There need to be two limits on such a container: Ship carrying it has no resists. Container costs 200m. Container shows up on scan. You can't cloak with the container aboard and your align is slowed by 40%.
In short, no, use BRs or double wraps. Also prepare to get ganked by everyone.
5 things:
Are we supposed to pick two from your list? Do you understand what using the explicit quantity TWO explicitly implies? Isk doubling is not a good career choice for you. Is 'can't cloak AND align is wonked 40%' 1 thing, 2 things or .5 things?
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
81
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Posted - 2016.02.26 18:13:39 -
[26] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:There need to be two limits on such a container: Ship carrying it has no resists. Container costs 200m. Container shows up on scan. You can't cloak with the container aboard and your align is slowed by 40%.
In short, no, use BRs or double wraps. Also prepare to get ganked by everyone. 5 things: Are we supposed to pick two from your list? Do you understand what using the explicit quantity TWO explicitly implies? Isk doubling is not a good career choice for you. Is 'can't cloak AND align is wonked 40%' 1 thing, 2 things or .5 things?
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